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D Rock
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Phits
This is one of the most telling statements:

QUOTE
At this point, Eagles have neither a QB who makes his WRs better nor WRs who make their QB better. Net result is league-high 25 drops.
@ZBerm


I don't think that our QB or WR's are bad. The truth is they are still an unknown. My biggest concern is that after 7 games they haven't found any reasonable cohesion to make them serviceable. The drops are a big fk'n problem, it's become an epidemic.
Reality Fan
I think the statement that we don't have a QB who makes the WRs better is absolutely idiotic....

When you have WRs who cannot get open than nothing a QB can do will change that...the coaching? that can help....but unless.until a QB can go "morgan freeman in Wanted" and curve the ball around defenders the QB ain't foing it....now a WR can make a QB look better by making acrobatic or incredible receptions on poorly thrown balls but the Eagles WRs can't make the basic catches....a remorseful thought I had as I watched the Monday night game.....

The WRs are just poor right now......Cooper getting a gimpy knee hurt us.....Matthews I can't forgive..his poor hands have resulted in 3 picks...
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 27 2015, 10:00 PM) *
I think the statement that we don't have a QB who makes the WRs better is absolutely idiotic....

110% Agreed.

He's hitting them in the fucking hands, and they just can't or wont CATCH THE FUCKING BALL!!!!!
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 27 2015, 06:13 PM) *
110% Agreed.

He's hitting them in the fucking hands, and they just can't or wont CATCH THE FUCKING BALL!!!!!

You would have a point, if only one or two receivers are dropping passes. When the entire team has the "dropsies", you have to start looking at the source.
Robberson
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 27 2015, 06:19 PM) *
You would have a point, if only one or two receivers are dropping passes. When the entire team has the "dropsies", you have to start looking at the source.


It's impossible to tell because our receivers and QB both suck ass, but I think it's a combination of both. Bradford isn't putting the right touch on a lot of passes, but obviously if it hits your hands you should catch it. Vick threw a hard ball, and never had his whole crew drop passes like this. Then again, he was throwing to DJax and Maclin, not Matthews and Agholor.
Zero
Mostly the same receivers caught balls last year. The QB is getting the ball in their hands and the hands don't get the balls. The QB doesn't suck ass if the ball is getting in the receiver's hands and if the receivers caught the ball before then it's fair to say they don't suck ass. Maybe opinions suck ass and there are other problems with the players.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 27 2015, 10:19 PM) *
You would have a point, if only one or two receivers are dropping passes. When the entire team has the "dropsies", you have to start looking at the source.

Correct.

Both the QB and the WRs are at fault. Bradford for the bad throws, and the receivers for not holding onto the good ones.

This "either ... or" blameshifting is ridiculous. Both parties need to up their game, but until they do they won't have enough reps to get in synch with each other.
mcnabbulous
Matthews had questions about his hands coming out. According to Dreagon, Austin is a notorious drop artist. Agholor seems to have issues dating back to camp. Huff is mess.

It's the receivers.
Zero
Matthews had 5.8% drops in 2014. Steve Smith 7.5%, Kelvin Benjamin 6.9%, Julian Edelman 6%, Marques Colston 7.1%, Victor Cruz 14.6%, Vernon Davis 10%, Jimmy Graham 6.5% ... Matthews is in a sophomore slump, Huff has never proven anything as a WR and Agholor is a rookie. I can't see any solid conclusions from this.

Source
xsv
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 27 2015, 04:52 PM) *


Yeah, yeah, we know we know. Bradford walks on water and can do no wrong. He should be immediately enshrined in the fucking hof.

Sorry, I'm not buying the this is All on the receivers. Until this week, Bradford looked like complete and utter dogshit. He looked better this week. I said as much during the game. But he is NOT absolved from the issues here. Neither are the WRs.
Zero
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 27 2015, 08:31 PM) *
Yeah, yeah, we know we know. Bradford walk on water and can do no wrong. He should be immediately enshrines on the fucking hof.

Sorry, I'm not buying the this is All on the receivers. Until this week, Bradford looked like complete and utter dogshit. He looked better this week. I said as much during the game. But he is NOT absolved from the issues here. Neither are the WRs.

Of course he's not absolved but he's shown improvement most every week. It doesn't mean he'll be the savior, but it seems the drops are the biggest problem. He's had what, a season and a half of NFL football and a season and a half out with two knee injuries that left him thinking about if he'd be better off quitting football. He's learning new teammates and new system. How does it affect his head when his receivers that he doesn't know don't catch balls in their hands at a record rate?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 27 2015, 07:30 PM) *
Matthews had 5.8% drops in 2014.

This was a pre draft comparison of Matthews to several of the other 2014 WRs

Regarding dropping passes:
QUOTE
The biggest player to watch out for here is Jordan Matthews who has a slightly above-average drop rate of 7.69%. There were a few 50/50 drops that I hedged on Matthews’ side for. He could realistically be anywhere between 7-11%. If you’re watching Matthews intently, keep an eye on his hands.


If anything, the 5.8% seems more the anomaly than his current struggles.

Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/4613...k-wr-metrics-20

Joegrane
I mostly agree with Berman; however, I think some of it can be attributed to the QB and receivers getting used to each other. Some of them are getting used to a new playbook.

The O Line has been a work in progress. They've often had third down and long.

I was confident about improvement until I saw Bradford's Pass Drop% stats here
http://www.wingheads.com/index.php?showtopic=79398

QUOTE
At this point, Eagles have neither a QB who makes his WRs better nor WRs who make their QB better. Net result is league-high 25 drops. @ZBerm
nephillymike
Thanks for sharing.

Good stuff.

I'm just glad we don't miss Maclin or Mathis.

I wonder if anyone could post the year to date +/- for the team and if that would fit the hater narrative?

Anyone a premium PFF guy who could post them?

Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 27 2015, 11:49 PM) *
I'm just glad we don't miss Maclin or Mathis.

Maclin yes, Mathis no. With that said. I am quite certain that nobody expected the offense to struggle as they have; with Bradford's rust or the receivers developing the dropsies or the running game to take so long to come around.

On the plus side...it can only get better.
Phits
That doesn't explain the problems the entire receiving core has had with dropped passes. I can understand a game or two, but not for seven games and not for everybody.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 27 2015, 09:34 PM) *
If anything, the 5.8% seems more the anomaly than his current struggles.



QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 28 2015, 12:48 AM) *
That doesn't explain the problems the entire receiving core has had with dropped passes. I can understand a game or two, but not for seven games and not for everybody.

xsv
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 27 2015, 08:37 PM) *
Of course he's not absolved but he's shown improvement most every week. It doesn't mean he'll be the savior, but it seems the drops are the biggest problem. He's had what, a season and a half of NFL football and a season and a half out with two knee injuries that left him thinking about if he'd be better off quitting football. He's learning new teammates and new system. How does it affect his head when his receivers that he doesn't know don't catch balls in their hands at a record rate?


I disagree that he's shown improvement every week. I agree this last game was his best, but Atl was easily his second best. And half of a football season is an eternity in the NFL.

QUOTE
How does it affect his head when his receivers that he doesn't know don't catch balls in their hands at a record rate?

Hopefully it makes him want to deliver the balls on time and accurately.

Zero
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 28 2015, 07:28 AM) *
Hopefully it makes him want to deliver the balls on time and accurately.

Hahaha ... got me. laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 27 2015, 10:49 PM) *
Thanks for sharing.

Good stuff.

I'm just glad we don't miss Maclin or Mathis.

I wonder if anyone could post the year to date +/- for the team and if that would fit the hater narrative?

Anyone a premium PFF guy who could post them?

I know Barbre was our highest rated OL this past week.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 27 2015, 10:19 PM) *
You would have a point, if only one or two receivers are dropping passes. When the entire team has the "dropsies", you have to start looking at the source.

If by "source" you mean Chip, I'll agree.

But in no sane world, do we blame a QB for WR dropping a ball that hit his fucking hands. It'd be different if we were talking about a proven group of quality receivers.

But Jordan had drop issues last season too. Nelson is a complete unknown. Huff has proven he pretty much sucks. Sproles has had drop issues since he's been here.

So unless Sam mystically possessed Nick Foles' body last season, it aint on the QB.



Pila
Good players sometimes play sucky. A lot goes into playing well consistently, but when we go on these emotionally charged rants about someone sucking, we often find ourselves then forcing to take on that argument even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Then only recourse to save face is to polarize all positions, even those of mild disagreements.

You guys should see yourselves!

smile.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 28 2015, 02:31 PM) *
Good players sometimes play sucky. A lot goes into playing well consistently, but when we go on these emotionally charged rants about someone sucking, we often find ourselves then forcing to take on that argument even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Then only recourse to save face is to polarize all positions, even those of mild disagreements.

You guys should see yourselves!

smile.gif

No shit. There is absolutely no nuance or gray area around here.
D Rock
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 28 2015, 07:31 PM) *
Good players sometimes play sucky. A lot goes into playing well consistently, but when we go on these emotionally charged rants about someone sucking, we often find ourselves then forcing to take on that argument even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Then only recourse to save face is to polarize all positions, even those of mild disagreements.

You guys should see yourselves!

smile.gif

After last week, the narrative became "Sam Sucks."

In response, I'm pointing to the FACT that our "skill" position players are dropping balls at a record pace.

That is (according to very simple logic) not the fault of the quarterback.

Would you deny that Jordan has had drop issues both years? Would you deny Huff has shown very little to warrant Chip's confidence in him? Would you deny Nelson is an unknown?

xsv
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 28 2015, 03:43 PM) *
After last week, the narrative became "Sam Sucks."

In response, I'm pointing to the FACT that our "skill" position players are dropping balls at a record pace.

That is (according to very simple logic) not the fault of the quarterback.

Would you deny that Jordan has had drop issues both years? Would you deny Huff has shown very little to warrant Chip's confidence in him? Would you deny Nelson is an unknown?


Sam does suck. Fortunately, at least in this past game, he played better. Still not great, but better than he was. I'll take it.

The receivers, unfortunately, did not. I don't completely absolve the QB, as you seem to want to do, but after this last game, my narrative has become "Sam Sucks AND the Receiver's suck."
D Rock
quite an evolution there, pal.

cheers.gif
xsv
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 28 2015, 04:29 PM) *
quite an evolution there, pal.

cheers.gif


I'm pretty close to throwing Chip in there as well.
Robberson
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 28 2015, 03:31 PM) *
I'm pretty close to throwing Chip in there as well.


He's been there - after all, those who suck were brought in by him.
Pila
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 28 2015, 07:43 PM) *
After last week, the narrative became "Sam Sucks."

In response, I'm pointing to the FACT that our "skill" position players are dropping balls at a record pace.

That is (according to very simple logic) not the fault of the quarterback.

Would you deny that Jordan has had drop issues both years? Would you deny Huff has shown very little to warrant Chip's confidence in him? Would you deny Nelson is an unknown?

I don't deny any of that.

Receivers, all of them were subpar. Last week Bradford was subpar.

But I've seen both sects play well.

However, my powers of observation has more than two degrees.
xsv
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 28 2015, 04:45 PM) *
He's been there - after all, those who suck were brought in by him.


I haven't said a single disparaging word about Chip yet.

You sound like an idiot.
Robberson
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 28 2015, 06:41 PM) *
I haven't said a single disparaging word about Chip yet.


No, just that you're close to throwing him in the same boat as Bradford and the WR's, who you endlessly complain about and who were brought in by him.

It's possible you're too stupid to understand what you're typing? Maybe you're dyslexic?
D Rock
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 28 2015, 10:01 PM) *
I don't deny any of that.

Receivers, all of them were subpar. Last week Bradford was subpar.

But I've seen both sects play well.

However, my powers of observation has more than two degrees.

That's neat. What's even more neat? The insinuation that you're in sole possession of that "vision."
D Rock
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 28 2015, 10:41 PM) *
I haven't said a single disparaging word about Chip yet.

You sound like an idiot.

Your ears are true. He's an idiot.
xsv
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 28 2015, 08:38 PM) *
No, just that you're close to throwing him in the same boat as Bradford and the WR's, who you endlessly complain about and who were brought in by him.

It's possible you're too stupid to understand what you're typing? Maybe you're dyslexic?


Are you too stupid to have a coherent thought.

Fuck off dipshit. The adults are talking.
D Rock
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 29 2015, 11:43 AM) *
Fuck off dipshit. The adults are talking.

laugh.gif
Robberson
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 29 2015, 05:43 AM) *
Are you too stupid to have a coherent thought.

Fuck off dipshit. The adults are talking.


Blow me faggot.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 29 2015, 06:49 PM) *
Blow me faggot.

On the other hand, I would think that soliciting a blowjob from another man would, in fact, call into question your sexuality.
Pila
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 29 2015, 07:31 AM) *
That's neat. What's even more neat? The insinuation that you're in sole possession of that "vision."

Of course not. And my point wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
xsv
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 29 2015, 07:49 PM) *
Blow me faggot.


Thanks for proving my point, Jr.

Come back when your balls drop, kid. Maybe then you can put together a rational thought.
Zero
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 29 2015, 09:04 PM) *
Thanks for proving my point, Jr.

Come back when your balls drop, kid. Maybe then you can put together a rational thought.
Hey, I actually thought that was one of his better posts.
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