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xsv
At least he could run. They both turn it over about the same amount. They both have all world talent.
mcnabbulous
Sam is a quicker decision maker than Vick. That is the main difference with regards to dropping back to pass.

Sam has actually been making pretty decent decisions. Something Vick could never do. Sam's problem is that he can't actually execute after the decision has been made.

Vick's running doesn't make up for his major limitation as a passer and decision maker.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2015, 05:20 PM) *
Sam is a quicker decision maker than Vick. That is the main difference with regards to dropping back to pass.

Sam has actually been making pretty decent decisions. Something Vick could never do. Sam's problem is that he can't actually execute after the decision has been made.

Vick's running doesn't make up for his major limitation as a passer and decision maker.


Yeah good point. Just so disappointed, and frustrated and Sam. I'm convinced he's not going to get any better, and that he'll stay the way he's played his entire career.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 21 2015, 04:53 PM) *
Yeah good point. Just so disappointed, and frustrated and Sam. I'm convinced he's not going to get any better, and that he'll stay the way he's played his entire career.

My only hope is really related to just gaining more confidence on his knee. It could be impacting his throwing. A number of QBs have played better the second year back from a knee injury.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 21 2015, 05:53 PM) *
Yeah good point. Just so disappointed, and frustrated and Sam. I'm convinced he's not going to get any better, and that he'll stay the way he's played his entire career.



Let's see what history tells us: He has one of the all time lowest int % rates in NFL history.

He threw to nothing but scrubs while with the Rams behind an OL who couldn't block Squat yet had 59 td's / 38 ints.

Now he's at least got an offensive minded coach who knows how to call plays.

The dude was drafted 2 years before Russell Wilson yet has played less games due to injury.

I've seen every pass he's ever thrown and I can tell you a few things here; he's made a couple bad decisions as all QB's do, but he's made some really bad throws which he almost NEVER does.

I know Eagle fans are very impatient and now that the season is NOT over (like most though after 4 weeks) you need to bitch about something but I'm telling you from where I sit and what I've seen from this guy I have no doubt he is going to resolve his throwing issue and when he does this team is going to explode. He's close folks, I promise.

Yeah I'd say he's going to get much, much better.
xsv
Let's see what the present tells us:

He's throwing ints at an alarmingly high rate, in the red zone, every game. He's got 2 or more interceptions in 4 out of the 6 games this year.

He's throwing to better receivers and has a better line than anytime in his career, and is still performing poorly.

He's got an offensive coach who has made every other QB that has played for him look better, but he still looks the same.

He looks like he's about to be injured on any given play. Granted, he has started all 6 games this year, I'm doubtful he makes it through the season.

I've seen every pass he's ever thrown and I can tell you a few things here; He's made a shit ton of bad decisions, at a much higher rate than should be expected or tolerated by a starting qb in this league not named Cousins. He's made some really bad throws in every game so far.

The NFL in general is impatient, and a continuation of his poor play will result in benching at some point. I'm pretty sure a couple more 3 int games in a row ought to do it.

I'm telling you from where I sit and what I've seen from this guy I have no doubt he is an absolute bum, and will never realize his potential. He's not going to be the guy going forward.

He is not even remotely close to what anyone expected out of him.

No, I'd say he is not going to get any better, and will likely regress even further.
nd9kel
Vick got replaced by Landry Jones last Sunday, who was hailed for his performance vs. Vick's deteriorating skills. Jones is an OU product. And ask any OU fan, Bradford is miles ahead of Jones.
Zero
QUOTE (nd9kel @ Oct 21 2015, 06:35 PM) *
Some people's whining gets boring to be honest.

It's not whining, it's a required personality trait for membership in the Eagles Empire. We've all got it, just comes out differently in some.

That said, just offer them some cheese and enjoy the ride. cool.gif
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (nd9kel @ Oct 21 2015, 06:35 PM) *
Vick got replaced by Landry Jones last Sunday, who was hailed for his performance vs. Vick's deteriorating skills. Jones is an OU product. And ask any OU fan, Bradford is miles ahead of Jones.


100% correct.

Vick is done, toast, a bum.

And Jones will get exposed IF they play him this week in KC. He's not very good at all though compared to Vick he looked like Brady last week.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 21 2015, 06:20 PM) *
Let's see what the present tells us:

He's throwing ints at an alarmingly high rate, in the red zone, every game. He's got 2 or more interceptions in 4 out of the 6 games this year.

He's throwing to better receivers and has a better line than anytime in his career, and is still performing poorly.

He's got an offensive coach who has made every other QB that has played for him look better, but he still looks the same.

He looks like he's about to be injured on any given play. Granted, he has started all 6 games this year, I'm doubtful he makes it through the season.

I've seen every pass he's ever thrown and I can tell you a few things here; He's made a shit ton of bad decisions, at a much higher rate than should be expected or tolerated by a starting qb in this league not named Cousins. He's made some really bad throws in every game so far.

The NFL in general is impatient, and a continuation of his poor play will result in benching at some point. I'm pretty sure a couple more 3 int games in a row ought to do it.

I'm telling you from where I sit and what I've seen from this guy I have no doubt he is an absolute bum, and will never realize his potential. He's not going to be the guy going forward.

He is not even remotely close to what anyone expected out of him.

No, I'd say he is not going to get any better, and will likely regress even further.


Well that was lazy, worthless reply but whatever.

Guess we will just have to see who's man enough to admit you were wrong at seasons end.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2015, 04:20 PM) *
Sam is a quicker decision maker than Vick. That is the main difference with regards to dropping back to pass.

Sam has actually been making pretty decent decisions. Something Vick could never do. Sam's problem is that he can't actually execute after the decision has been made.

Vick's running doesn't make up for his major limitation as a passer and decision maker.



No the tape watchers have been saying his decision making has been poor.

And his accuracy in tight coverage has also been poor.
nephillymike
Let's see what the present tells us:

6 games, 80.0 passer rating.

Let's see what the past tells us:

49 games, 79.3 passer rating.

Same shit, different day.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 21 2015, 07:09 PM) *
No the tape watchers have been saying his decision making has been poor.

And his accuracy in tight coverage has also been poor.

My eyes are telling me that most of his picks have been the result of poor throws. He's not having they type where a corner steps in front of a route (e.g. Carroll's pick-6)
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2015, 07:30 PM) *
My eyes are telling me that most of his picks have been the result of poor throws. He's not having they type where a corner steps in front of a route (e.g. Carroll's pick-6)



Mostly with the picks, yes.

Although two of them this week, not so much.

The Ertz pick, he had Cooper open on the same side of the field eight yards behind the LCB for an easy TD; he threw high to Ertz instead.

The INT when Cooper stopped short, he would have been double covered as the FS was on that side with the CB. That may have been INT anyway.

But it is mostly on the other throws. Jaws said again that he is not seeing the field going through his progressions.

Sure his WR have been bad at drops. But he's left a lot of TD's on the field.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 21 2015, 08:16 PM) *
Let's see what the present tells us:

6 games, 80.0 passer rating.

Let's see what the past tells us:

49 games, 79.3 passer rating.

Same shit, different day.

He is throwing INT's at an alarming rate. This doesn't jive with Sam's history. This should tell us that something is amiss.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 21 2015, 07:57 PM) *
He is throwing INT's at an alarming rate. This doesn't jive with Sam's history. This should tell us that something is amiss.



My theory is that they are forcing him out of his comfort zone.

Sam was known as a check down Charlie, always happy to take the safe check down route. Kind of like Alex Smith.

However, his big spike in INT's is coincident with his trying to throw the ball down field.

It seems to me that he gets antsy in the pocket as he goes through his progressions and his decision making and accuracy decrease as the amount of time he has increases. For QB's who are afforded time to get to the 3rd or 4th option in the progressions, accuracy and decision making normally goes up as the WR's have more separation the longer they have to separate and seeing the open guys is easier because they are that much more open. This is very true when you ignore sacks. It does not seem to work that way for Sam, even though our pass protection has been good.
mcnabbulous
I think that's a fair assessment, Mikey. I mentioned a few weeks ago that he seems to play worse the more he thinks. When he just reacts, it seems to go better. Not a great sign.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2015, 08:21 PM) *
I think that's a fair assessment, Mikey. I mentioned a few weeks ago that he seems to play worse the more he thinks. When he just reacts, it seems to go better. Not a great sign.



I don't have the answer for that.

Chip mentioned maybe trying to make practice simulate game conditions better. I don't know how you do that.

It is a situation that when the O-Line does it's job, the QB can't handle the extra time.

It's a catch-22. If you let him back in the short passing comfort zone, D will crowd the LOS, hurting the run game, which will then hurt the passing game with long 3rd downs.

But really, if this year is all about Sam and not our W-L's, it doesn't matter. If that is the majority's mindset, I would think those of that view would want a real easy decision come January. Either a real bad Sam that it's easy to let him go, or a real good Sam who is a no brainer to sign to a long term deal. Anything in between and we are in the same spot as last year and you've gained no more information on Sanchez. To me, I'd throw Sanchez in the mix to gather more information to make that QB decision. It could be, that we don't need to be an offensive titan to go far in the playoffs with a very good D. We've never had a decent D since Chip. Maybe with Sanchez playing an efficient, if not spectacular QB, with a rating near 90, we see another route to the dance.

Remember, Eli Manning got there twice and WON both times, and he never won a playoff game outside of those two seasons.

There is nobody more scared in the pocket than he.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2015, 08:30 PM) *
My eyes are telling me that most of his picks have been the result of poor throws. He's not having they type where a corner steps in front of a route (e.g. Carroll's pick-6)


Your eyes are correct.

You rarely see someone undercut his throw i.e. like Eli did on MNF.

In 2013 in fact when Sam played the first 7 games before tearing his ACL initially (in Carolina no less!) he was off to a huge start, 14 td's / 4 ints in 6+ games and all 4 int's were on tipped or batted balls.

I've seen him play every game since OU and I heard a Ram fan who I respect in such matetrs talking before the season saying "he's going to have trouble with accuracy for a while because he did all the upper body work but limited what he could do lower body-wise...so expect him to be an arm thrower until he gets it all working together."

I brushed it off then but I have to tell you I have NEVER seen him under and over throw gimme plays like the last two weeks.

It's so weird, and the one to Ertz in the EZ Monday night, when he released that ball I was expecting an EASY td when I saw how calm and comfortable he was when he released it, much like the int he threw vs the Saints to Browner when Cooper was open behind him.

It's like he sees it and releases it but something is wrong within his mechanics and the ball is short (or long).

Hoping that he gets that corrected ASAP because this offense is ready to roll.
Zero
QUOTE (Speed_Kills @ Oct 21 2015, 10:27 PM) *
Hoping that he gets that corrected ASAP because this offense is ready to roll.

All that sounds good from a correctable perspective. He's effectively got three QB coaches with Chip, Shurmer and Day. But I'm not so sure the receivers are there yet between the drops and the supposed wrong routes. Running game needs to break out Sunday.
xsv
QUOTE (Speed_Kills @ Oct 21 2015, 06:45 PM) *
Well that was lazy, worthless reply but whatever.

Guess we will just have to see who's man enough to admit you were wrong at seasons end.


The replay was a perfect counter to your lazy, worthless post.
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