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Pila
The Fucking Vaginas would be down 109... Points.
xsv
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 19 2015, 11:19 PM) *
The Fucking Vaginas would be down 109... Points.


We'd actually be playoff contenders. We might still be simply becuase the division is so bad. But we should be better.

From one of the best offenses, to one of the worst.
Pila
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 20 2015, 05:11 AM) *
We'd actually be playoff contenders. We might still be simply becuase the division is so bad. But we should be better.

From one of the best offenses, to one of the worst.

Bradford is not playing well, but I don't think it's a talent issue. But, today Sanchez would have put up 80 points, if not more.
mcnabbulous
And one of the worst defenses to one of the best. Unfortunately that's kind of how it goes.

Chip moved financial resources from offense to defense. Sam is worse than we could have imagined. At this point, Sanchez seems like he would be hard pressed to be worse.

I hope Chip can simply scheme our team to future offensive success.
D Rock
I'm holding out hope that it's mostly rust. But that hope is paper thin at this point.
samaroo
I think you guys might be mis-remembering Sanchez a little bit...
mcnabbulous
Sanchez's biggest problem was turnovers. Otherwise he was actually pretty decent.

I expected Sam to be significantly better with ball security. To date, he has possibly been worse.
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2015, 01:34 PM) *
Sanchez's biggest problem was turnovers. Otherwise he was actually pretty decent.

I expected Sam to be significantly better with ball security. To date, he has possibly been worse.

That is definitely a defensible position, but I'll take a turnover machine with an NFL caliber arm over a turnover machine without one.
Pila
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 20 2015, 05:36 AM) *
That is definitely a defensible position, but I'll take a turnover machine with an NFL caliber arm over a turnover machine without one.

I think Sanchez would put up a lot of points today. Like the absurd kind.
mcnabbulous
Statistically, Sanchez was better than Bradford has been in every category. Literally every single one.
samaroo
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 20 2015, 01:38 PM) *
I think Sanchez would put up a lot of points today. Like the absurd kind.

Why?
Phits
Needless to say, we won't be a legitimate contender with the current incarnation of Sam Bradford or Mark "the post season killer" Sanchez.
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2015, 01:39 PM) *
Statistically, Sanchez was better than Bradford has been in every category. Literally every single one.

Sure. But we won with Sanchez DESPITE his play, and lost BECAUSE of it. He hasn't been a good starting QB for us. He's arguably the best backup in the league (or close to it), but I think he gets more love than he deserves because of how poorly Foles was last year. Being slightly better than bad isn't what we need.

This is not meant to be an endorsement of Bradford either, per se. I think his ceiling is way higher than Sanchez's, but I also don't know if we'll ever see it at this point. But I'm still hopeful, because I'm stupid.
Pila
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 20 2015, 05:39 AM) *
Why?

Fuck, because Bradford was awful... particularly bad at times. Worse than I remember Sanchez being last year, especially against bad defenses. And the Gints were really bad today. This seemed to me precisely the kind of defense Sanchez makes mince meat of.

I felt Sanchez would have broken scoring records today.

Pila
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 20 2015, 05:46 AM) *
Sure. But we won with Sanchez DESPITE his play, and lost BECAUSE of it. He hasn't been a good starting QB for us. He's arguably the best backup in the league (or close to it), but I think he gets more love than he deserves because of how poorly Foles was last year. Being slightly better than bad isn't what we need.

This is not meant to be an endorsement of Bradford either, per se. I think his ceiling is way higher than Sanchez's, but I also don't know if we'll ever see it at this point. But I'm still hopeful, because I'm stupid.
Agreed.

For the record, Bradford - I think - is the better QB. But how long before we give up on that Schrodinger reality?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 19 2015, 11:46 PM) *
Sure. But we won with Sanchez DESPITE his play, and lost BECAUSE of it. He hasn't been a good starting QB for us. He's arguably the best backup in the league (or close to it), but I think he gets more love than he deserves because of how poorly Foles was last year. Being slightly better than bad isn't what we need.

This is not meant to be an endorsement of Bradford either, per se. I think his ceiling is way higher than Sanchez's, but I also don't know if we'll ever see it at this point. But I'm still hopeful, because I'm stupid.

While I agree with this, it doesn't change the reality that Bradford has been worse than Sanchez was last year across the board.

I'm near a point where I don't see that changing. And I was very high on the prospects of seeing Sam in this offense. I'm simply at a point where I just don't think he is very good. And it starts with his lack of accuracy on routine throws.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2015, 12:57 AM) *
While I agree with this, it doesn't change the reality that Bradford has been worse than Sanchez was last year across the board.

I'm near a point where I don't see that changing. And I was very high on the prospects of seeing Sam in this offense. I'm simply at a point where I just don't think he is very good. And it starts with his lack of accuracy on routine throws.


Bradford has had 6 games in this system.....I am far from ready to throw in the towel......while Bradford was pretty bad in spots, he was pretty good in more......the confusion between him and the WRs and RBs bother me.......Kelly made a point out of mentioning that again....Riley certainly blew one...

We should have won by more.....I think I said 31-7 so I was a bit off.....

deep breaths chicken littles.......we are fine....
samaroo
I would still like for Bradford to be more consistent. Either good or bad. My nightmare scenario right now is that he continues this trend of playing poorly with flashes of what could be, and we re-sign him anyway. I'd rather lose this year and stop the bleeding than keep a wound festering for potential that might not be realized.
JeeQ
Trashford has left a ridiculous amount of points on the field... It's no longer the play-calling, it's all execution

Kelce I'm also looking in your direction you gigantic fuck up
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 20 2015, 01:11 AM) *
Bradford has had 6 games in this system.....I am far from ready to throw in the towel......while Bradford was pretty bad in spots, he was pretty good in more......the confusion between him and the WRs and RBs bother me.......Kelly made a point out of mentioning that again....Riley certainly blew one...

We should have won by more.....I think I said 31-7 so I was a bit off.....

deep breaths chicken littles.......we are fine....

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Sproles had a head scratcher too in the first quarter. He went in a different place than Sam thought he was going. Was that on Bradford or Sproles? Was Cooper's miss/int on Cooper or Bradford? Another EZ int though?
nd9kel
Well there's this: St. Louis would much rather have the 12th ranked QB in the league rather than what they've got, the 30th ranked one.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 20 2015, 12:11 AM) *
Bradford has had 6 games in this system.....I am far from ready to throw in the towel......while Bradford was pretty bad in spots, he was pretty good in more......the confusion between him and the WRs and RBs bother me.......Kelly made a point out of mentioning that again....Riley certainly blew one...

We should have won by more.....I think I said 31-7 so I was a bit off.....

deep breaths chicken littles.......we are fine....

I'm hardly a chicken little when it comes to this team. I'm easily one of the most optimistic people on this board.

Sanchez only played 8 games last year. I want to give Sam the benefit of the doubt, but his accuracy is so bad, it's hard to do so.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 20 2015, 01:11 AM) *
Bradford has had 6 games in this system.....I am far from ready to throw in the towel......while Bradford was pretty bad in spots, he was pretty good in more......the confusion between him and the WRs and RBs bother me.......Kelly made a point out of mentioning that again....Riley certainly blew one...

We should have won by more.....I think I said 31-7 so I was a bit off.....

deep breaths chicken littles.......we are fine....


First of all, I can't find more than a play or two all night that Badford was "pretty good". The one 6 yard pass on the Matthews fumble where he hung in there with a free blitzer in his face was easily his best play of the game, and again, the ball only traveled 6 yards in the air.

He also had a decent pass to Ertz that I can't find in the highlights.

Other than that, every play he was involved in that I can think of or find was average QB play or below.

Chicken little, my ass. The team is fine for the most part. We're in first place, and should contend for the division down the stretch. But that's despite Badford, not because of him. He should be benched if he continues to play at this level.
Phits
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 20 2015, 11:04 AM) *
He should be benched if he continues to play at this level.

You'd be benching him for equal return. Bradford(2015)/Sanchez(2014) numbers are basically the same. Except this year we have a problem with dropped passes.
xsv
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 20 2015, 11:34 AM) *
You'd be benching him for equal return. Bradford(2015)/Sanchez(2014) numbers are basically the same. Except this year we have a problem with dropped passes.


Not the same. Worse in every statistical passing category.

Every. Single. One.

That is not the same.
mcnabbulous
The primary difference between the two, from the limited time we've seen both, is that Sanchez at least looked like he believed he should be on the field.

Bradford, in addition to being bad, just looks out of place. Sanchez seemed to play with conviction.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2015, 11:44 AM) *
The primary difference between the two, from the limited time we've seen both, is that Sanchez at least looked like he believed he should be on the field.

Bradford, in addition to being bad, just looks out of place. Sanchez seemed to play with conviction.


The only thing about Sanchez is his fumbling. If it wasn't for that, he's be worlds better.

And I don't buy the whole "he's still settling in" argument about Bradford. He's had 6 games now, and looks worse than at the beginning of the year. And his completion percentage and average per throw are in line with his career averages. He is who he is, and he sucks.

If he has *another* 3 int game, I'd bench him for Sanchez for the rest of the year and draft a qb in the first round next year. I know we need help on the offensive line, and other places, but we need to get a franchise qb in here. It aint Samantha Badford.
Phits
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 20 2015, 11:42 AM) *
Not the same. Worse in every statistical passing category.

Every. Single. One.

That is not the same.


Here's what I said

QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 20 2015, 11:34 AM) *
You'd be benching him for equal return. Bradford(2015)/Sanchez(2014) numbers are basically the same. Except this year we have a problem with dropped passes.

On a per game basis:
(2014) Sanchez: 64.81% - 310 yards - 1.75 TD - 1.3 INT - 2.8 sacks - 0.88 Fumbles
(2015) Bradford: 63.29% - 260 yards - 1.5 TD - 1.5 INT - 0.88 sacks - 0.28 Fumbles

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 20 2015, 11:06 AM) *
The only thing about Sanchez is his fumbling. If it wasn't for that, he's be worlds better.

I don't know about worlds, but yeah. You can't excuse the fumbling though.

QUOTE
And I don't buy the whole "he's still settling in" argument about Bradford. He's had 6 games now, and looks worse than at the beginning of the year. And his completion percentage and average per throw are in line with his career averages. He is who he is, and he sucks.

This argument definitely loses steam each week.

QUOTE
If he has *another* 3 int game, I'd bench him for Sanchez for the rest of the year and draft a qb in the first round next year. I know we need help on the offensive line, and other places, but we need to get a franchise qb in here. It aint Samantha Badford.

Securing a franchise QB is the most difficult thing to do in sports. I don't think Chip has the luxury to draft a QB at this point. He should have done it his first year.

We are going to struggle at the QB position until we are really bad and find ourselves in a position to grab a top guy. Chip did the right thing in attempting to acquire Bradford the way he did. It was a calculated risk that appears to not be paying off, but a risk worth taking.

If things continue going the way they have been with Bradford (and there is not much reason to expect that they will improve) we will be searching for another veteran journeyman next year. At this point, I hope that guy can use his legs to stretch the defense a bit with a true read option.
SAM I Am
Chip should have pulled a Mike Ditka and traded away every pick in the draft for Mariotta.

After all, he is rebuilding the team through free agency, not the draft. Chipper is a master innovator who doesn't have time to wait for that.

Bottom line: Unless you have a top tier QB, your odds of winning a Lombardi aren't very good.
Pila
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 20 2015, 05:16 PM) *
Here's what I said


On a per game basis:
(2014) Sanchez: 64.81% - 310 yards - 1.75 TD - 1.3 INT - 2.8 sacks - 0.88 Fumbles
(2015) Bradford: 63.29% - 260 yards - 1.5 TD - 1.5 INT - 0.88 sacks - 0.28 Fumbles

Could be senility, but don't remember Sanchez missing as badly as Bradford has been doing on occasion.
Robberson
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 20 2015, 01:45 PM) *
Could be senility, but don't remember Sanchez missing as badly as Bradford has been doing on occasion.


Truth. Bradford shows brief spurts of greatness, then completely shits the bed. Sanchez was at least consistent, and gave you some mobility.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 20 2015, 12:06 PM) *
The only thing about Sanchez is his fumbling. If it wasn't for that, he's be worlds better.

And I don't buy the whole "he's still settling in" argument about Bradford. He's had 6 games now, and looks worse than at the beginning of the year. And his completion percentage and average per throw are in line with his career averages. He is who he is, and he sucks.

If he has *another* 3 int game, I'd bench him for Sanchez for the rest of the year and draft a qb in the first round next year. I know we need help on the offensive line, and other places, but we need to get a franchise qb in here. It aint Samantha Badford.


Really...he has 6 games after missing nearly 2 years.....of no football......and he is now playing with an entirely new cast.....

He needs to get better but expecting him to master this offense after 6 games is unrealistic...

He may not be the guy but I think he still has some rope...

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 20 2015, 03:19 PM) *
He needs to get better but expecting him to master this offense after 6 games is unrealistic...

He may not be the guy but I think he still has some rope...

The problem is that he isn't really showing too many signs of progress. That's what is most concerning to me.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2015, 12:17 PM) *
I don't know about worlds, but yeah. You can't excuse the fumbling though.


This argument definitely loses steam each week.


Securing a franchise QB is the most difficult thing to do in sports. I don't think Chip has the luxury to draft a QB at this point. He should have done it his first year.

We are going to struggle at the QB position until we are really bad and find ourselves in a position to grab a top guy. Chip did the right thing in attempting to acquire Bradford the way he did. It was a calculated risk that appears to not be paying off, but a risk worth taking.

If things continue going the way they have been with Bradford (and there is not much reason to expect that they will improve) we will be searching for another veteran journeyman next year. At this point, I hope that guy can use his legs to stretch the defense a bit with a true read option.


I don't blame him for trying. I was on board with the move.

It's not working out tho.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 20 2015, 04:19 PM) *
Really...he has 6 games after missing nearly 2 years.....of no football......and he is now playing with an entirely new cast.....

He needs to get better but expecting him to master this offense after 6 games is unrealistic...

He may not be the guy but I think he still has some rope...


Except that all of his start are in line with his career averages.

He is who he is. And it itn't good enough. Not now. Doesn't look like ever.

He *may* have a little rope left, but after Chips comment after the game, he doesn't have many more games like this one. I give him 3 games at this level without improvement before he gets yanked , IMO.
xsv
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 20 2015, 12:16 PM) *
Here's what I said


On a per game basis:
(2014) Sanchez: 64.81% - 310 yards - 1.75 TD - 1.3 INT - 2.8 sacks - 0.88 Fumbles
(2015) Bradford: 63.29% - 260 yards - 1.5 TD - 1.5 INT - 0.88 sacks - 0.28 Fumbles


And like I said, Sanchez was better in every single passing category.

What part of "every single passing category" are you having trouble with?

That does not equal "basically the same". Sanchez was clearly the better passer.
samaroo
I really don't want to see Sanchez starting, barring injury. I don't care if he'd play marginally better, he's not winning us a SB. His fumbles and limited passing tree = Bradford's inconsistency and INTs, IMO. I don't want to have a single doubt about Bradford at the end of this season. Period. If he's our savior or goat, I want it to be perfectly clear exactly which direction we need to move in. And that can only come with a full season from Bradford.

If he gets benched now, or soon, and Sanchez plays like he has, we'll be in the same spot we're in now, with a question mark as our starting QB. What if Sanchez plays mediocre, Bradford re-signs, and lights it up next offseason? That sounds like the worst possible outcome to me. It sounds like QB-purgatory. It sounds like we'll be bad enough to never win it but good enough to never be in position to draft our franchise QB.
mcnabbulous
I think this is how Chip sees it too.
samaroo
I hope so. I don't want to be the Bills.
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