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mcnabbulous
In two offseasons, Chip has taken a position which had been a 5 year nightmare to one of the best units in football.

His work there as GM has been absolutely brilliant. Our offense still has work to do, but I think we are on the verge of having a championship caliber defense. I'm still concerned about our lack of edge rushers (which can result in pass rushing duds like we had against Washington) but we Thurmond and Jenkins have dramatically improved our secondary. It's really a pleasure to see.
Zero
Smith actually got into the game and I think he had a hurry.
CT_Eagle
Jenkins has been one of the highlights this season, no doubt about it.
Eyrie
For someone signed initially as a CB, Thurmond has turned out to be a very good S.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 15 2015, 02:41 PM) *
For someone signed initially as a CB, Thurmond has turned out to be a very good S.



shhhhhhh.....Kelly is a terrible GM.coach....pass it on.......lol
samaroo
Yep. A lot of that is on Davis, too, I think. Where's all the "Fire Davis!" talk been?
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 15 2015, 11:41 PM) *
shhhhhhh.....Kelly is a terrible GM.coach....pass it on.......lol

Napoleon said that he would rather have a lucky general than a good one.

Luck will only take you so far until it runs out. The question is whether Kelly can use that luck to learn and become good.
Robberson
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 14 2015, 11:23 PM) *
In two offseasons, Chip has taken a position which had been a 5 year nightmare to one of the best units in football.

His work there as GM has been absolutely brilliant. Our offense still has work to do, but I think we are on the verge of having a championship caliber defense. I'm still concerned about our lack of edge rushers (which can result in pass rushing duds like we had against Washington) but we Thurmond and Jenkins have dramatically improved our secondary. It's really a pleasure to see.


Safeties are pretty good for us. He was bound to nail a couple positions sooner or later, I think we're pretty good at LB too. And now that Marcus Smith is on the stat sheet, who knows how he will progress going forward?
samaroo
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 17 2015, 04:22 AM) *
Safeties are pretty good for us. He was bound to nail a couple positions sooner or later, I think we're pretty good at LB too. And now that Marcus Smith is on the stat sheet, who knows how he will progress going forward?

So he hit with S. Hit multiple times with LB. Hit with WR. Hit with RB. CB seems better. TE is good. QB is a question mark. OL is down. DL is way up.

That's pretty damn lucky. You talk about the Chip fanboys a lot...what's the opposite of that called?
Eyrie
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 17 2015, 02:19 AM) *
So he hit with S. Hit multiple times with LB. Hit with WR. Hit with RB. CB seems better. TE is good. QB is a question mark. OL is down. DL is way up.

That's pretty damn lucky. You talk about the Chip fanboys a lot...what's the opposite of that called?

S - Jenkins yes, but Thurmond was a stroke of luck
ILB - Kendricks and Ryans were inherited, Alonso hasn't played, so only Hicks counts
OLB - Barwin is a good addition, but Graham has yet to be more than solid and Smith is a non-factor
WR - Matthews is having a sophomore slump, Huff and Agholor have yet to show consistency as opposed to the occasional good play
RB - Murray has had one good game, although Mathews has started well
CB - couldn't be much worse than Williams and Bradley, although Maxwell has been disappointing and Carroll isn't that good
TE - Celek was inherited but Ertz was a good pick
QB - agreed
OL - very much a result of Kelly's decisions and failure to plan
DL - Cox, Curry, Thornton were all inherited. Getting Logan and Allan late was good.

There are a lot of question marks against most of your hits, and we don't know if Kelly gets sole credit for the 2013 and 2014 picks. It'll take at least another couple of years to assess Kelly as a GM.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2015, 05:55 AM) *
S - Jenkins yes, but Thurmond was a stroke of luck
ILB - Kendricks and Ryans were inherited, Alonso hasn't played, so only Hicks counts
OLB - Barwin is a good addition, but Graham has yet to be more than solid and Smith is a non-factor
WR - Matthews is having a sophomore slump, Huff and Agholor have yet to show consistency as opposed to the occasional good play
RB - Murray has had one good game, although Mathews has started well
CB - couldn't be much worse than Williams and Bradley, although Maxwell has been disappointing and Carroll isn't that good
TE - Celek was inherited but Ertz was a good pick
QB - agreed
OL - very much a result of Kelly's decisions and failure to plan
DL - Cox, Curry, Thornton were all inherited. Getting Logan and Allan late was good.

There are a lot of question marks against most of your hits, and we don't know if Kelly gets sole credit for the 2013 and 2014 picks. It'll take at least another couple of years to assess Kelly as a GM.
I'm the optimist but a GM has to be graded just as much by who he let go as by who he gets.

Thurmond was not luck, he was pursued by Kelly and fit to a spot of need by Kelly and his staff. Huff and Agholor both have potential but haven't done anything, Maxwell is at best an unknown, Carroll has exceeded his purpose as a dime CB and ST player, Ertz has a ton of potential but is playing in the middle of the pack, Graham is a flop as a pass rusher from the QBs blind side and the OL is a best an unknown that needs parts.

With all of that optimism, it's his first year as GM. He's done a good job of coaching a lot of those guys along with getting other coaches to do the job, but it's about at the time for the potential to convert to production. If we look at the guys who are gone, Maclin is the only one I really regret ... well, the speed of Jackson but can't have that without the head on top of the legs. sad.gif
mcnabbulous
Logan is severely underrated around these parts. He's a stud.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 17 2015, 11:27 AM) *
Thurmond was not luck, he was pursued by Kelly

... but to be a CB, not a S ....
QUOTE
and fit to a spot of need by Kelly and his staff.

.... only after they realised that their handpicked Ss weren't good enough so they had to gamble on converting a CB.

It would have been to Kelly's credit if Wolff, Watkins or Couplin had made it as a good starter this season. Instead his two draft picks are no longer with us and Couplin still only has potential.
mcnabbulous
Chip brings in versatile players. That isn't by accident. The fact that Thurmond is a very good option at safety was likely not lost on Chip when he brought him in.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2015, 02:23 PM) *
... but to be a CB, not a S ....

.... only after they realised that their handpicked Ss weren't good enough so they had to gamble on converting a CB.

It would have been to Kelly's credit if Wolff, Watkins or Couplin had made it as a good starter this season. Instead his two draft picks are no longer with us and Couplin still only has potential.


the only problem with your line of thinking is that Thurmond was pegged at safety almost immediately by Kelly and his staff and they drafted several DBs to back that up...

and now you attribute a Howie draft pick in Earl Wollfe from Kelly's first year as a Kelly miss?

Watkins was another Pre Kelly the GM draft pick and Couplin is a depth signing and previously undrafted guy who played in Detroit. Are you saying he was signed to be a starter?

Part of Kelly's GM move was so he could lead the draft without Howie...
Robberson
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 16 2015, 08:19 PM) *
So he hit with S. Hit multiple times with LB. Hit with WR. Hit with RB. CB seems better. TE is good. QB is a question mark. OL is down. DL is way up.

That's pretty damn lucky. You talk about the Chip fanboys a lot...what's the opposite of that called?


Hit with S, hit several times with LB but who knows what we could've gotten in the 1st round without wasting the Smith pick?

Getting rid of Maclin and Jackson and replacing them with Matthews and Agholor isn't 'hitting WR.' The jury is still out on both, but there was no need to drop two pro-bowlers for no reason.

Signing the RB that everyone is drafting 1st in fantasy football isn't 'hitting' either, especially when you're just trading All-Pros.

CB is mediocre, TE is slightly above mediocre, QB is slightly above peanut brittle, OL is much worse, DL is very good. Pat Gillick he ain't.
mcnabbulous
I think we should probably assume that Chip had some say or strong opinions related to our draft choices in 2013 and 2014. Wolff was worth a shot, but it was always a long shot.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Robberson @ Oct 17 2015, 03:16 PM) *
Hit with S, hit several times with LB but who knows what we could've gotten in the 1st round without wasting the Smith pick?

Almost everything about the Smith pick suggests it was made by Howie. I suspect Chip approved it, but I think he wanted to be more aggressive and move up for a targeted guy. There was lots of talk about Brandin Cooks, who has been pretty disappointing.

Looking at the draft, there aren't any obvious guys who would be making our team dramatically better taken between Smith and Matthews. Even in hindsight, it's not that obvious.

QUOTE
Getting rid of Maclin

Oh Jesus Christ you're annoying.

Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 17 2015, 08:20 PM) *
the only problem with your line of thinking is that Thurmond was pegged at safety almost immediately by Kelly and his staff and they drafted several DBs to back that up...

and now you attribute a Howie draft pick in Earl Wollfe from Kelly's first year as a Kelly miss?

Watkins was another Pre Kelly the GM draft pick and Couplin is a depth signing and previously undrafted guy who played in Detroit. Are you saying he was signed to be a starter?

Part of Kelly's GM move was so he could lead the draft without Howie...

Except if you take the time to check Pravda the articles about Thurmond signing all refer to him as a CB and never as a S.

Linc 1
QUOTE
They added cornerback Walter Thurmond ("Very competitive player," Kelly said) on a one-year contract to compete for playing time and add much-needed talent and depth.


Linc 2
QUOTE
Thurmond has the versatility to play both outside and inside.


Linc 3
QUOTE
The Eagles knew they needed to overhaul cornerback and they're in the process of doing so with the additions of Maxwell and Thurmond


Linc 4 - this is now May 5 and he's still not being mentioned at S.
QUOTE
A common theory is that Watkins will make the move to safety given the glut of cornerbacks the Eagles have on their roster. They signed Byron Maxwell and Walter Thurmond and E.J. Biggers in free agency. They drafted three cornerbacks -- one of whom, Eric Rowe, could project as a cornerback or a safety -- and that room looks pretty full.

Safety, meanwhile, is an open book for this defense. Other than Malcolm Jenkins, the Eagles have nobody proven to play there. There are some promising candidates, and Watkins is one of them


I stopped looking, but there's at least a couple of months before Thurmond is given a try out at S.
Phits
Keep in mind that the articles are conjecture. It's speculation based on how we perceive the use of any given player.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2015, 05:57 PM) *
Except if you take the time to check Pravda the articles about Thurmond signing all refer to him as a CB and never as a S.



I stopped looking, but there's at least a couple of months before Thurmond is given a try out at S.


My apologies....I missed Kelly being quoted in any of them other than to laud Thurmond;s "versatility"....

I did not realize that Dave Spadaro joined the coaching staff....what was I thinking...is he a secondary coach or the asst. DC?

and it explains why they drafted Rowe, Shephard and Evans.....with Chip as the GM.

To be fair...the Eagles did approach Thurmond and ask him to make the switch...he could have said no......but he played safety in the OTAs so the change was immediate
samaroo
Okay, just want to make sure I have the rules right...

If Chip makes a pick and it doesn't work out, he sucks.

But if he gets a player and he's good, he's lucky.

Do I have it now? Good.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 17 2015, 08:44 PM) *
Okay, just want to make sure I have the rules right...

If Chip makes a pick and it doesn't work out, he sucks.

But if he gets a player and he's good, he's lucky.

Do I have it now? Good.


wait....you missed the rule that he is directly and solely responsible for all draft picks from day 1 regardless if those picks caused the uproar that resulted in him taking over the GM duties and took away Howie's player evaluation video privileges..

I think that covers it
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 17 2015, 11:45 PM) *
Keep in mind that the articles are conjecture. It's speculation based on how we perceive the use of any given player.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 17 2015, 11:54 PM) *
My apologies....I missed Kelly being quoted in any of them other than to laud Thurmond;s "versatility"....

I did not realize that Dave Spadaro joined the coaching staff....what was I thinking...is he a secondary coach or the asst. DC?

and it explains why they drafted Rowe, Shephard and Evans.....with Chip as the GM.

To be fair...the Eagles did approach Thurmond and ask him to make the switch...he could have said no......but he played safety in the OTAs so the change was immediate

If Kelly had made reference to playing Thurmond at S when we signed him then it would be reasonable to expect that to be mentioned on the official site. He's exclusively referred to as a CB however.

Kelly and Davis made a good decision to switch him but that was not why they brought him here.

QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 18 2015, 01:44 AM) *
Okay, just want to make sure I have the rules right...

If Chip makes a pick and it doesn't work out, he sucks.

But if he gets a player and he's good, he's lucky.

Do I have it now? Good.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 18 2015, 03:44 AM) *
wait....you missed the rule that he is directly and solely responsible for all draft picks from day 1 regardless if those picks caused the uproar that resulted in him taking over the GM duties and took away Howie's player evaluation video privileges..

I think that covers it

I covered this in my original comment
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2015, 10:55 AM) *
we don't know if Kelly gets sole credit for the 2013 and 2014 picks. It'll take at least another couple of years to assess Kelly as a GM.

Right now there are a lot more question marks than positives from Kelly's first year as a GM, so it's fair to question him. In a couple of years we'll have a larger sample size and then either his supporters will have the evidence to back up their blind faith that he is a good GM or else he will no longer be here.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 18 2015, 05:53 AM) *
If Kelly had made reference to playing Thurmond at S when we signed him then it would be reasonable to expect that to be mentioned on the official site. He's exclusively referred to as a CB however.

I remember them saying that they didn't view the secondary in a traditional sense. There isn't the same distinction between CB and S as most teams have. Look at the official roster, they have three players listed as CB, two safeties, and four DBs. I think we're splitting hairs with this.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 18 2015, 05:53 AM) *
If Kelly had made reference to playing Thurmond at S when we signed him then it would be reasonable to expect that to be mentioned on the official site. He's exclusively referred to as a CB however.

Kelly and Davis made a good decision to switch him but that was not why they brought him here.



I covered this in my original comment

Right now there are a lot more question marks than positives from Kelly's first year as a GM, so it's fair to question him. In a couple of years we'll have a larger sample size and then either his supporters will have the evidence to back up their blind faith that he is a good GM or else he will no longer be here.


So I understand this.......They asked him before OTAs to make the switch.....in June at OTAs he is playing safety....they draft 3 CBs......but your position is that they did not plan for him to play safety........

And in what world is a GM graded out as a GM 5 games into his first year as such? Of course there are question marks 5 games in......but there is nothing fair about his detractors...we have no idea if his moves in the last 9 months are wise or foolish....I agree time will tell.
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