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nephillymike
1. Bradford - at times flashes and shows an outstanding ability to put the ball on the dime when leading WR's in their routes. I've heard it mentioned, and seconded by the receivers about the ball being right where it needs to be out of their break. This would be good for YAC. He easily has the strongest arm of the four and better than Foles but not up to Vick's or Mcnabb. However, they characterize his play as being overall "rusty" while missing a lot of open targets. He has gotten the overwhelming majority of first team snaps, and most times when Sanchez is in there with the ones, it is for running plays. Bradford says his knees feel great, further along than what he expected.

2. Sanchez - hardly any reps with the ones. An up and down, uneven performance this camp so far. A very good showing in the OTA's.

3. Barkley - had a great spring in OTA"s and is doing "OK" in TC. He is like the missing link in that he seems like he is ever interviewed.

4. Tebow - the most comfortable of anyone in zone read plays. Had a poor spring with inaccuracy but has improved greatly in TC and has shined the last few days relative to where he was. Barkley still thought to be the better passer, but as one reporter said, it is obvious to him that both the Eagles and Barkley want him to be traded.

I heard this tidbit the other day:

Since the 2000 season, there are only two QB's who have thrown 300 or more passes in the NFL and had a completion rate below 50%:

Mike McMahon
Tim Tebow.

Mariota is tearing it up in TEN and my STL connection say they love them some Foles.

As far as our QB situation, so far so good. I am OK with Bradford getting a ton of #1 snaps this week as he needs to shake the rust, but I would be pissed if it continued in training camp. I want a full blown QB competition and nothing should be handed to him. If he beats out Sanchez, fair and square than that's the best case. However, he needs to beat him out. If he's anything like we hope he is, that shouldn't be hard. I am not handing the starting QB job to a career 79 rated QB with a sub 40% winning percentage no matter how much I'm paying him. Chip said it would be open competition and unlike what was said to Boykin, he needs to live up to his word and not go back on it.
Zero
Bradford should be expected to have rust. If what we're seeing is what's under there then we're in for good news. It may take a while for him to get back, how long's he been out ... essentially a year and a half. He needs some time.
Joegrane
QUOTE
I want a full blown QB competition and nothing should be handed to him
.
QUOTE
Bradford should be expected to have rust. ... It may take a while for him to get back...

I agree with both statements. That's part of the reason why I'd like to see Sanchez start at least the first game, maybe even two or three. It would give Bradford some additional time to heal and grow in the system. It would give the new O Line some time to gel. It would give Sanchez a fair opportunity to show what he can do with a fully healed arm.

Of course if Bradford looks terrific in the preseason and Sanchez looks improved, the only reason to start Sanchez would be to showcase him for his trade value at the end of the season.

My view is this year is a retooling year. I'll have no problem with 9 wins if they are developing their young talent.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Aug 8 2015, 09:39 PM) *
.

I agree with both statements. That's part of the reason why I'd like to see Sanchez start at least the first game, maybe even two or three. It would give Bradford some additional time to heal and grow in the system. It would give the new O Line some time to gel. It would give Sanchez a fair opportunity to show what he can do with a fully healed arm.

Of course if Bradford looks terrific in the preseason and Sanchez looks improved, the only reason to start Sanchez would be to showcase him for his trade value at the end of the season.

My view is this year is a retooling year. I'll have no problem with 9 wins if they are developing their young talent.


I want Sanchez to play very well in the preseason but I want Bradford to beat him out in the preseason, preferably great beating out very good. If it is not apparent that Bradford is the better choice on merit by the end of the preseason, then trouble ensues. Remember, if our D is improved, a good Sanchez can win a lot of games. A good D would have gotten him two more wins down the stretch last year. If Sanchez wins on merit and we are winning as a team, there's no reason to go back. That's why it's important Bradford win it outright.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 8 2015, 11:49 PM) *
I want Sanchez to play very well in the preseason but I want Bradford to beat him out in the preseason, preferably great beating out very good. If it is not apparent that Bradford is the better choice on merit by the end of the preseason, then trouble ensues. Remember, if our D is improved, a good Sanchez can win a lot of games. A good D would have gotten him two more wins down the stretch last year. If Sanchez wins on merit and we are winning as a team, there's no reason to go back. That's why it's important Bradford win it outright.
That makes a lot of sense, but in order for Bradford to knock off the rust and get to where he needs to be, he needs to get repetitions. If he's getting the reps he'll need, Sanchez isn't getting a fair shot and there's not a fair competition.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (Zero @ Aug 9 2015, 06:11 AM) *
That makes a lot of sense, but in order for Bradford to knock off the rust and get to where he needs to be, he needs to get repetitions. If he's getting the reps he'll need, Sanchez isn't getting a fair shot and there's not a fair competition.


Never realized there were (apparently) this many Sanchez fans in the world, let alone Eagles fans.

I kind of feel sorry for those that think barring injury Sanchez ever plays in front of Sam. Was NEVER going to happen, EVER. Two different talent levels. Sanchez is here as plan B in case Sam gets hurt, nothing more. Eagles are trying to EXTEND Sam. How do you think those talks are going; "well if you are able to beat out Sanchez and Tebow we'd like to have you long term but hey, if they beat you out how about signing this new deal as our long term back up?"

Wake up folks. This race has been run.

Also, as far as arm strength, I would not put any QB in football ahead of Bradford. I recall when the Rams picked up Al Harris for a cup of coffee a few years back and he said, and I quote; "Sam Bradford has THE STRONGEST arm in football, bar none!"

Dude has a cannon.

Eagle fans you sleep at night nesttled with their Foles, Sanchez and/or Tebow jerseys will never come around to this guy, I've seen it before many times. But those who have eyes wide open are about to be blown away by Bradford's talent level.
Zero
I'm not sure how you got that I'm a Sanchez fan from my post. My point is that he's a good backup and if Bradford is going to knock the rust off he needs the reps. Meaning: Sanchez doesn't get the chance to compete to be the starter even if he doesn't have a shot.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Speed_Kills @ Aug 9 2015, 06:00 AM) *
Never realized there were (apparently) this many Sanchez fans in the world, let alone Eagles fans.

I kind of feel sorry for those that think barring injury Sanchez ever plays in front of Sam. Was NEVER going to happen, EVER. Two different talent levels. Sanchez is here as plan B in case Sam gets hurt, nothing more. Eagles are trying to EXTEND Sam. How do you think those talks are going; "well if you are able to beat out Sanchez and Tebow we'd like to have you long term but hey, if they beat you out how about signing this new deal as our long term back up?"

Wake up folks. This race has been run.

Also, as far as arm strength, I would not put any QB in football ahead of Bradford. I recall when the Rams picked up Al Harris for a cup of coffee a few years back and he said, and I quote; "Sam Bradford has THE STRONGEST arm in football, bar none!"

Dude has a cannon.

Eagle fans you sleep at night nesttled with their Foles, Sanchez and/or Tebow jerseys will never come around to this guy, I've seen it before many times. But those who have eyes wide open are about to be blown away by Bradford's talent level.

The arm strength quote was from R. Diddy who has seen all three QB's up close to judge arm strength.

I am an Eagles fan first and whoever shines as the best QB is fine as a starter by me. I'll support him and his backup if need be.

I take it you were a Rams season ticket holder that saw him play in STL?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Aug 9 2015, 05:11 AM) *
That makes a lot of sense, but in order for Bradford to knock off the rust and get to where he needs to be, he needs to get repetitions. If he's getting the reps he'll need, Sanchez isn't getting a fair shot and there's not a fair competition.

I think that getting almost all of the reps with the ones for a week or so is enough to get him back on track, especially since he still will be getting reps with the 2's.

I think it's important to have an open competition. Important for the team and for Chip.
xsv
That's definitely not how I am hearing it. Here's a summary of what I've heard...

1. Bradford - started out rusty, but the past couple of practices have been at an "elite" level of play. His accuracy is as advertised and he looks unstoppable at times. Has made a very strong connection with Matthews.

2. Sanchez - Up and down, as you have said, but still throws a perfect strike on post patterns almost every time. Have trouble with the outs. Obviously is the most familiar with the offense.

3. Teblow - Below average. Lots of bad decisions and bad throws, but has had a least one good day. Mechanics have noticeably improved, but still doesn't have very good accuracy.

4. Barkley - Having a Terrible camps. Passes have no zip on them at all, and is distributing the ball to various DBs all over the field.

Overall, I'm pretty optimistic about Bradford. Here's to hoping he can stay healthy. I'm ok with Sanchez as the backup. I wish we had a 3rd string qb that we could develop for the future though. Both of the guys we have seem to be below average, even for journeyman 3rd stringers. No hope for the future here.


QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 8 2015, 05:41 PM) *
1. Bradford - at times flashes and shows an outstanding ability to put the ball on the dime when leading WR's in their routes. I've heard it mentioned, and seconded by the receivers about the ball being right where it needs to be out of their break. This would be good for YAC. He easily has the strongest arm of the four and better than Foles but not up to Vick's or Mcnabb. However, they characterize his play as being overall "rusty" while missing a lot of open targets. He has gotten the overwhelming majority of first team snaps, and most times when Sanchez is in there with the ones, it is for running plays. Bradford says his knees feel great, further along than what he expected.

2. Sanchez - hardly any reps with the ones. An up and down, uneven performance this camp so far. A very good showing in the OTA's.

3. Barkley - had a great spring in OTA"s and is doing "OK" in TC. He is like the missing link in that he seems like he is ever interviewed.

4. Tebow - the most comfortable of anyone in zone read plays. Had a poor spring with inaccuracy but has improved greatly in TC and has shined the last few days relative to where he was. Barkley still thought to be the better passer, but as one reporter said, it is obvious to him that both the Eagles and Barkley want him to be traded.

I heard this tidbit the other day:

Since the 2000 season, there are only two QB's who have thrown 300 or more passes in the NFL and had a completion rate below 50%:

Mike McMahon
Tim Tebow.

Mariota is tearing it up in TEN and my STL connection say they love them some Foles.

As far as our QB situation, so far so good. I am OK with Bradford getting a ton of #1 snaps this week as he needs to shake the rust, but I would be pissed if it continued in training camp. I want a full blown QB competition and nothing should be handed to him. If he beats out Sanchez, fair and square than that's the best case. However, he needs to beat him out. If he's anything like we hope he is, that shouldn't be hard. I am not handing the starting QB job to a career 79 rated QB with a sub 40% winning percentage no matter how much I'm paying him. Chip said it would be open competition and unlike what was said to Boykin, he needs to live up to his word and not go back on it.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 9 2015, 09:06 AM) *
The arm strength quote was from R. Diddy who has seen all three QB's up close to judge arm strength.

I am an Eagles fan first and whoever shines as the best QB is fine as a starter by me. I'll support him and his backup if need be.

I take it you were a Rams season ticket holder that saw him play in STL?


No I am a life long Ram fan for 40+ years who is also a huge OU fan. Funny thing is I've lived my entire life in western PA and HATE everything Steelers!

I've had DTV since its inception in the mid 90's and have seen every throw Bradford has made both pro and college.

I meant no offense by my comments btw, I've had my disagreements with Ram fans too through the years.

This cat came to a Ram team that won 5 games total in the prior 3 years COMBINED. Worst roster ever assembled in NFL history.

It chaps me when I hear people say he doesn't elevate lesser talents. Who was Danny Amendola before playing with Sam? Then he gets a nice FA deal. Same with (ex-Eagle) Brandon Gibson. How much did he sign for in Miami?

And the Rams went from 1-15 (and 5-43 the prior 3 YEARS!) to 7-8-1 and within a 1/2 game of winning the NFC west Sam's rookie year.

He missed 7 games year 2 with a high ankle but go back and see how many games he toughed it out and played in against ALL team orders.

Then of course we have the past 2 ACL injures.

I have no crystal ball with regards to injures, all I will say to Eagles nation is this. IF Bradford stays healthy he's a top 5 QB in this league.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Speed_Kills @ Aug 9 2015, 09:44 AM) *
No I am a life long Ram fan for 40+ years who is also a huge OU fan. Funny thing is I've lived my entire life in western PA and HATE everything Steelers!

I've had DTV since its inception in the mid 90's and have seen every throw Bradford has made both pro and college.

I meant no offense by my comments btw, I've had my disagreements with Ram fans too through the years.

This cat came to a Ram team that won 5 games total in the prior 3 years COMBINED. Worst roster ever assembled in NFL history.

It chaps me when I hear people say he doesn't elevate lesser talents. Who was Danny Amendola before playing with Sam? Then he gets a nice FA deal. Same with (ex-Eagle) Brandon Gibson. How much did he sign for in Miami?

And the Rams went from 1-15 (and 5-43 the prior 3 YEARS!) to 7-8-1 and within a 1/2 game of winning the NFC west Sam's rookie year.

He missed 7 games year 2 with a high ankle but go back and see how many games he toughed it out and played in against ALL team orders.

Then of course we have the past 2 ACL injures.

I have no crystal ball with regards to injures, all I will say to Eagles nation is this. IF Bradford stays healthy he's a top 5 QB in this league.


That would be awesome if he is top five.

I hope you are right.

I would be happy with top 10.

Years ago when I was in another line of work, our parent company was based in STL and I got to know a bunch of Rams fans and we would keep in touch and always talk about football. I still keep in touch with one guy who is a season ticket holder and has been since they moved there and he says the city was not upset to see him go. If he's that good, I would expect a different reaction.

That being said, there were guys open all year long last year that Foles and Sanchez didn't see or couldn't get it to them and if Bradford can do that, he may be good enough to be the QB who gets us far into the playoffs.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 9 2015, 12:23 PM) *
That would be awesome if he is top five.

I hope you are right.

I would be happy with top 10.

Years ago when I was in another line of work, our parent company was based in STL and I got to know a bunch of Rams fans and we would keep in touch and always talk about football. I still keep in touch with one guy who is a season ticket holder and has been since they moved there and he says the city was not upset to see him go. If he's that good, I would expect a different reaction.


Two years is a LONG time my friend, especially in NFL years. And many Ram fans grew tired of having back-to-back seasons squished because Sam got hurt.

I have a lot of Ram friends and follow their boards religiously, it's humorous to see how they've talked themselves in to believing they've won this trade "no matter what" because of the extra second rounder "even if Sam lights it up and Foles struggles.."

Which of course is just crazy talk.

It will be the QB who plays much better than the other that will determine the winner of this trade. Foles has more talent around him in St Louis than Sam ever had, and it's no longer all rookies either, so he's got his chance to shine. And the Rams D will be top 3 this year.

That said, if Sam is healthy the Eagles are legit Super Bowl contenders. Bank it.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Speed_Kills @ Aug 9 2015, 12:48 PM) *
Two years is a LONG time my friend, especially in NFL years. And many Ram fans grew tired of having back-to-back seasons squished because Sam got hurt.

I have a lot of Ram friends and follow their boards religiously, it's humorous to see how they've talked themselves in to believing they've won this trade "no matter what" because of the extra second rounder "even if Sam lights it up and Foles struggles.."

Which of course is just crazy talk.

It will be the QB who plays much better than the other that will determine the winner of this trade. Foles has more talent around him in St Louis than Sam ever had, and it's no longer all rookies either, so he's got his chance to shine. And the Rams D will be top 3 this year.

That said, if Sam is healthy the Eagles are legit Super Bowl contenders. Bank it.



I think to "win" this trade, Bradford has got to play well enough and be healthy enough to be a second tier or better QB, while Foles needs to play tier three or worse.

My rankings:
Tier 1 = Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Luck
Tier 2 = Rivers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Ryan, Wilson, Flacco

Most list Eli in this list but after watching him play twice a year for all these years, he has never concerned me as a fan of our team. He is my exception. So despite his 2 SB wins, I exclude him from the top two tiers.

I say this because tier two QB's are good enough to win SB's with, and below that they are not. If we got an upgrade to have a good enough QB to be in that group AND Foles does not play well enough to be in that group than it was worth the extra throw ins.

So it is essentially Foles, a 2nd (say Rowe for example of comparable talent) and what you can buy with $12M of cap space or $12M of real money for Bradford. That last part is significant which is why he needs to be a tier above. I heard this discussion all week on sports talk and the incompetent hosts forget to add in the pick and the money.

He seems like he is on his way to being that based on the last three days of camp. but as we know, that is small potatoes compared to when the bullets start flying in the preseason games and then the real games.
Speed_Kills
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 9 2015, 02:30 PM) *
I think to "win" this trade, Bradford has got to play well enough and be healthy enough to be a second tier or better QB, while Foles needs to play tier three or worse.

My rankings:
Tier 1 = Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Luck
Tier 2 = Rivers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Ryan, Wilson, Flacco

Most list Eli in this list but after watching him play twice a year for all these years, he has never concerned me as a fan of our team. He is my exception. So despite his 2 SB wins, I exclude him from the top two tiers.

I say this because tier two QB's are good enough to win SB's with, and below that they are not. If we got an upgrade to have a good enough QB to be in that group AND Foles does not play well enough to be in that group than it was worth the extra throw ins.

So it is essentially Foles, a 2nd (say Rowe for example of comparable talent) and what you can buy with $12M of cap space or $12M of real money for Bradford. That last part is significant which is why he needs to be a tier above. I heard this discussion all week on sports talk and the incompetent hosts forget to add in the pick and the money.

He seems like he is on his way to being that based on the last three days of camp. but as we know, that is small potatoes compared to when the bullets start flying in the preseason games and then the real games.


I take Big Ben over anyone not named Rodgers or Brady. Brees is not a top tier guy in my book.

And Wilson is not a tier 2 guy until he shows me what he can do with a team without GREAT D and GREAT run game, sorry.
Joegrane
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 8 2015, 11:49 PM) *
I want Sanchez to play very well in the preseason but I want Bradford to beat him out in the preseason,...f Sanchez wins on merit and we are winning as a team, there's no reason to go back. That's why it's important Bradford win it outright.


The reason to go back to Bradford would be the inevitable "rust" that Zero mentioned and that the Eagles have to decide which one will be the starter in 2016. Bradford has to start at some time in the season.

QUOTE
I am an Eagles fan first and whoever shines as the best QB is fine as a starter by me. I'll support him and his backup if need be.


I agree.
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