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nephillymike
Cmon CC give it up.

The guys who have seen him in the OTA's say he has been really bad. R. Diddy just said the other day that each throw is a different set of mechanics as the previous one, and he flat out misses WR's by a lot on real simple patterns and he is real slow thru progressions.

I'd like it to be otherwise but they say they'd rather have recently converted WR GJ Kinnie than Tebow.

He's got to do a 180 to even be close.
Joegrane
Do you know where R Diddy made those comments?

The author at CC's link makes good points. You never know what is going to happen. I bet Chip likes the possible other uses for Tebow, especially short yardage situations. I wonder if Chip likes Barkley as a leader.

I think it is Tebow's job to loose, however, unless Chip finds a trade partner for Barkley, I expect Barkley to win the job.

Third string QBs are typically developmental players. Rolling the dice on Tebow and his new mechanics is not unreasonable.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 22 2015, 11:32 PM) *
Cmon CC give it up.

The guys who have seen him in the OTA's say he has been really bad. R. Diddy just said the other day that each throw is a different set of mechanics as the previous one, and he flat out misses WR's by a lot on real simple patterns and he is real slow thru progressions.

I'd like it to be otherwise but they say they'd rather have recently converted WR GJ Kinnie than Tebow.

He's got to do a 180 to even be close.

Zero
If Kelly thought there was much of a chance for Tebow to make the team, why would he move Kinne to RB/WR/QB instead of adding a good ST player who might be able to contribute on either D or O if there's a rash of injuries?
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 22 2015, 11:32 PM) *
Cmon CC give it up.

The guys who have seen him in the OTA's say he has been really bad. R. Diddy just said the other day that each throw is a different set of mechanics as the previous one, and he flat out misses WR's by a lot on real simple patterns and he is real slow thru progressions.

I'd like it to be otherwise but they say they'd rather have recently converted WR GJ Kinnie than Tebow.

He's got to do a 180 to even be close.


My only caveat is that Barkley seems to have been a BPA choice of Howie's. Chip might jettison him because it is taking too long for him to show improvement or Chip doesn't think he has the skill set he wants. Then again Tebow may just blow it during TC and the preseason because his skills are not up to snuff either. I think he brought him in because of lack of confidence in Barkley, maybe it will push the kid to get up to speed this year. Should be an interesting August.

xsv
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jul 23 2015, 11:01 AM) *
Rolling the dice on Tebow and his new mechanics is not unreasonable.


It's not just TeBlow.

Rolling the dice on ANY journeyman QB still having issues with his mechanics is not reasonable.


Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 23 2015, 01:53 PM) *
It's not just TeBlow.

Rolling the dice on ANY journeyman QB still having issues with his mechanics is not reasonable.


Do you really think he was brought in for his arm or for his potential in wildcat situations?

xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 23 2015, 02:12 PM) *
Do you really think he was brought in for his arm or for his potential in wildcat situations?


I highly doubt we would waste the 3rd QB spot on a guy we're only interested in for wildcat situations. I that's what they are really after, then moving GJ Kinne to wr makes a lit more sense. Sorta like Brad Smith.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 23 2015, 01:12 PM) *
Do you really think he was brought in for his arm or for his potential in wildcat situations?


I'm guessing it has more to do with the new extra point rules than anything else.
Spock
QUOTE (Christian_Cat @ Jul 22 2015, 08:54 PM) *


I'd rather not win, than win with that PoS in an Eagle uniform. There are few people who have walked the face of the Earth that I despise more than this a$$clown. How anyone can like him is beyond me. I suppose it would be rude to wish pancreatic cancer on him so I will stop short of that.
Spock
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jul 23 2015, 03:22 PM) *
I'm guessing it has more to do with the new extra point rules than anything else.


Right, but they did not move the line of scrimmage for 2 point conversions, so Tedouche can go back to panhandling on the steps of St Pats...
Aquila
QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 23 2015, 08:32 PM) *
I'd rather not with than win with that PoS in an Eagle uniform. There are few people who have walked the face of the Earth that I despise more than this a$$clown. How anyone can like him is beyond me. I suppose it would be rude to wish pancreatic cancer on him so I will stop short of that.


Let's keep the personal comments on G&G and just discuss football ability/inability on here please.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 23 2015, 03:09 PM) *
I highly doubt we would waste the 3rd QB spot on a guy we're only interested in for wildcat situations. I that's what they are really after, then moving GJ Kinne to wr makes a lit more sense. Sorta like Brad Smith.


ummm....we wasted 2 years on Barkley....or did he see the field when I was not looking last year?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 23 2015, 03:32 PM) *
I'd rather not win, than win with that PoS in an Eagle uniform. There are few people who have walked the face of the Earth that I despise more than this a$$clown. How anyone can like him is beyond me. I suppose it would be rude to wish pancreatic cancer on him so I will stop short of that.


he was a terrific college football player....and he is an exceptional athlete so he may have other uses.....long shot but you never know.

As far as the vitriol? I can understand not liking the attention he gets but he is a pretty upstanding guy so you might have a serious issue or 3. It is ok to not want him on the team because he is not very good but to hate him, especially to that level is a little scary.
Spock
QUOTE (Aquila @ Jul 23 2015, 04:04 PM) *
Let's keep the personal comments on G&G and just discuss football ability/inability on here please.


Sry about the personal comments.

If the discussion about Tedouche needs to focus on football, there is not much to say b/c he can't play football at the NFL level. If he does somehow make the team and dress for a game, I will heckle him like there is no tomorrow at the 10 regular season games I am attending this year, plus any home playoff games. I am 7 rows from the bench on the Eagle side of the field (home games). I have only been thrown out of the stadium once (during Andy's last year). I made it clear that Andy's association with the Eagles had become an embarrassment to the team, city, state...Then I started throwing $20s on the field as bribe money to get him to leave.....Ushers apparently don't like you throwing anything on the field...even bribe money. I would gladly face another expulsion to tell Tedouche what I think about his football ability, etc..
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 23 2015, 04:20 PM) *
ummm....we wasted 2 years on Barkley....or did he see the field when I was not looking last year?


Not sure Icsee your point. And yes, he saw the field, and showed significantly more promise than teBlow, and is younger with better mechanics.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jul 23 2015, 10:01 AM) *
Do you know where R Diddy made those comments?

The author at CC's link makes good points. You never know what is going to happen. I bet Chip likes the possible other uses for Tebow, especially short yardage situations. I wonder if Chip likes Barkley as a leader.

I think it is Tebow's job to loose, however, unless Chip finds a trade partner for Barkley, I expect Barkley to win the job.

Third string QBs are typically developmental players. Rolling the dice on Tebow and his new mechanics is not unreasonable.


Diddy made the on last Saturday's AM WIP show with Rueben Frank.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 23 2015, 01:12 PM) *
Do you really think he was brought in for his arm or for his potential in wildcat situations?



I think Chip did a favor for a friend, Tebow's agent, to give Tebow a chance to make it here or put something on film to make it elsewhere.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 23 2015, 06:27 PM) *
Not sure Icsee your point. And yes, he saw the field, and showed significantly more promise than teBlow, and is younger with better mechanics.


see...this is what drives me crazy....what promise did he show last year? He threw 1 damn pass that was incomplete....that is promise?

at least Tebow provides the benefit of being able to run. I don't care if Tebow makes it or not but if it is a matter of him or Barkley than I think it is a wash with neither making much of an impact......but Tebow adds a dimension with his legs....he has 12 rushing TDs in real games.

He also has a hell of a lot more actual game experience but if it comes down to either having to play an actual meaningful game as the primary we are fucked regardless.
Zero
The decision will be made on performance in camp this year. Not on last year or five years ago. This debate is like a bunch of chickens squawking in a hen house. biggrin.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 23 2015, 09:20 PM) *
ummm....we wasted 2 years on Barkley....or did he see the field when I was not looking last year?

Both are a waste of time as an actual QB, it's just that there is more evidence against Tebow than there is against Barkley.

I'd be tempted to get Vick in as the back up to Sanchez if anything happens to Bradford.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 24 2015, 05:21 AM) *
I don't care if Tebow makes it or not but if it is a matter of him or Barkley than I think it is a wash with neither making much of an impact......but Tebow adds a dimension with his legs....he has 12 rushing TDs in real games.

I'd be surprised if anyone disagrees that we don't want either of them to see any action this season. Tebow's threat as a runner is negated by his inability to pass, so defences can spy him.
xsv
Promise as in potential to develop into an actual NFL qb. That's something TeBlow doesn't have a prayer of being able to do. ( see what I did there?)

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 24 2015, 12:21 AM) *
see...this is what drives me crazy....what promise did he show last year? He threw 1 damn pass that was incomplete....that is promise?

at least Tebow provides the benefit of being able to run. I don't care if Tebow makes it or not but if it is a matter of him or Barkley than I think it is a wash with neither making much of an impact......but Tebow adds a dimension with his legs....he has 12 rushing TDs in real games.

He also has a hell of a lot more actual game experience but if it comes down to either having to play an actual meaningful game as the primary we are fucked regardless.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 24 2015, 07:53 AM) *
Promise as in potential to develop into an actual NFL qb. That's something TeBlow doesn't have a prayer of being able to do. ( see what I did there?)


I could care less is Tebow makes the team....it is apparent that Kelly has no faith in Barkley and you think 1 pass in an entire season shows promise of becoming a NFL QB and I think it demonstrates a complete lack of ocnfidence by a head coach who had a chance to start his promising QB and he played his starter. It is really that simple.

xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 24 2015, 09:19 AM) *
I could care less is Tebow makes the team....it is apparent that Kelly has no faith in Barkley and you think 1 pass in an entire season shows promise of becoming a NFL QB and I think it demonstrates a complete lack of ocnfidence by a head coach who had a chance to start his promising QB and he played his starter. It is really that simple.


I think Matt Barkely shows more upside than TeBlow (Which isn't saying much) based on his 50+ passes in regular season games in the NFL and his 2 complete preseasons.

And any coach in the history of football would have started Foles, Vick or Sanchez over Bakley.

What is really simple is the fact that Barkley shows more upside than TeBlow.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 24 2015, 11:57 AM) *
I think Matt Barkely shows more upside than TeBlow (Which isn't saying much) based on his 50+ passes in regular season games in the NFL and his 2 complete preseasons.

And any coach in the history of football would have started Foles, Vick or Sanchez over Bakley.

What is really simple is the fact that Barkley shows more upside than TeBlow.


Well then you can argue that Tebow has won 8 regular season games and 1 playoff game as a starter...granted not a great passer but he managed the games.

barkley could not even push Sanchez who was playing with a bum shoulder.

Beyond that.....what coach in the history of the game would not play his 3rd QB who was his 2nd QB at that point in a game that meant nothing? Seriously?

Why did the beat writers make such a big deal about it at the time? They specifically asked Chip why Barkley was not going to start.....not sure which history you are living but the final game last year was a great chance to play him and Chip passed.....
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 24 2015, 11:53 PM) *
Well then you can argue that Tebow has won 8 regular season games and 1 playoff game as a starter...granted not a great passer but he managed the games.


For one thing, he's had 3 more full seasons than Barkley.

QUOTE
barkley could not even push Sanchez who was playing with a bum shoulder.

By your own criteria, Sanchez is tremendously better than either, so this isn't surprising.

QUOTE
Beyond that.....what coach in the history of the game would not play his 3rd QB who was his 2nd QB at that point in a game that meant nothing? Seriously?

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

QUOTE
Why did the beat writers make such a big deal about it at the time? They specifically asked Chip why Barkley was not going to start.....not sure which history you are living but the final game last year was a great chance to play him and Chip passed.....

Why are you chaning the topic from upside and potential to whether a qb is ready to start. You seem to think there's vastly less difference between Foles/Sanchez and Barkley/TeBlow than I do, lol.

IMO, Barkely has a ton more potential and upside. That potential being that he *might* be able to one day be a half decent career as a backup. TeBlow, on the other hand, will be out of the NFL for good this fall. Sanchez is a starting caliber QB, although not above average in any way.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 25 2015, 11:59 AM) *
For one thing, he's had 3 more full seasons than Barkley.


By your own criteria, Sanchez is tremendously better than either, so this isn't surprising.


I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.


Why are you chaning the topic from upside and potential to whether a qb is ready to start. You seem to think there's vastly less difference between Foles/Sanchez and Barkley/TeBlow than I do, lol.

IMO, Barkely has a ton more potential and upside. That potential being that he *might* be able to one day be a half decent career as a backup. TeBlow, on the other hand, will be out of the NFL for good this fall. Sanchez is a starting caliber QB, although not above average in any way.


ok...here is why this place drives me nuts sometimes...

Barkley ahs 2 full seasons.....Tebow has 3 yet somehow you come to the conclusion that Tebow has "3 more seaons" than Barkley...not sure I get that reasoning...maybe I missed 3 years of the NFL.

My point with Sanchez is that Barkley never got a sniff of replacing Foles regardless of my criteria........Sanchez got no pressure from Barkley's performance...all those incredible pre season performances meant nothing.

My regarding coaches in history was obviously missed by you. The final game of last season was one in which most NFL coaches would have played Barkley because the game meant nothing yet Kelly did not start him...that speaks volumes.

Now as far as my opinion on the differences.....you lost me. You obviously completely miss myu point which shocks me because I have been pretty clear. Here you go...one more time.

Sanchez is a competent starter.......my point regarding Tebow and Barkley......I don't care who makes it because if either has to play we are screwed. Tebow brings the ability to run the ball effectively but lacks confidence in throwing the ball and Barkley brings nothing (average arm and no legs). The difference between the starter(s) and either option for the 3rd spot is huge.

I hope that was clear....hell....I hope they give Kinne the job

Eyrie
Barkley should have played in the last game against the NJ VaGiants because it would have given him valuable experience. And if/when we lost we'd have improved our draft pick without anyone suspecting a thing wink.gif
nephillymike
I think Barkley will surprise some this year.
xsv
Ok, here's why this place drives ME nuts sometimes....

QUOTE
The final game of last season was one in which most NFL coaches would have played Barkley because the game meant nothing yet Kelly did not start him...that speaks volumes.

Completely unsubstantiated and in my opinion, completely untrue. Agree to disagree if you want

QUOTE
Now as far as my opinion on the differences.....you lost me. You obviously completely miss myu point which shocks me because I have been pretty clear. Here you go...one more time.

I'm as shocked as you that some of your points are completely lacking in clarity, as well as logic.

QUOTE
Tebow brings the ability to run the ball effectively but lacks confidence in throwing the ball

Actually, his lack competency in throwing the ball is what is holding him back. Doesn't matter what the the reason is, 5 years after being drafted. If he doens't have it by now, he's not going to get it.

Barkley has demonstrated that he can at least throw the ball competently at this level. That's a pretty important metric for the QB position. More important than the ability to run the ball, by just about anyone's measure (except yours apparently)

He'll probably never be a starter in this league, but he's got a much better chance than TeBlow does (at least as QB).

QUOTE
hell....I hope they give Kinne the job

I completely agree with that. I'm hoping he makes the team. Probably won't be as QB tho, if he ever does.
BKRuger
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 25 2015, 03:32 PM) *
I think Barkley will surprise some this year.


By still being in the NFL? Yeah, agreed.
nephillymike
QUOTE (BKRuger @ Jul 25 2015, 09:07 PM) *
By still being in the NFL? Yeah, agreed.



The reporters are saying he looks good in the OTA's.

Early for sure.

Just sayin'
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 25 2015, 04:30 PM) *
Ok, here's why this place drives ME nuts sometimes....


Completely unsubstantiated and in my opinion, completely untrue. Agree to disagree if you want

Really?

Here is one quick link to the beat writer...he was surprised

http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadel...new-york-giants


I'm as shocked as you that some of your points are completely lacking in clarity, as well as logic.

Well I get you turning a little bitchy after i pointed out your fallacy of their respective NFL experience. But please let me know which point you don understand....I will gladly clear it up for you though I fail to see how I have not been crystal clear.....


Actually, his lack competency in throwing the ball is what is holding him back. Doesn't matter what the the reason is, 5 years after being drafted. If he doens't have it by now, he's not going to get it.

hmmmm...sounds like what they said about Sanchez after 5 years in the NFL and yet here we are agreeing that he is a competent starter...personally I agree with you that he will never be a competent QB in this league......you just missed the part where I said regardless of which one they keep, neither will see the field.

Barkley has demonstrated that he can at least throw the ball competently at this level. That's a pretty important metric for the QB position. More important than the ability to run the ball, by just about anyone's measure (except yours apparently)

My point here was simple....neither has the confidence of Kelly as far as being a traditional QB, Tebow may (and that is the key word here) intrigue Kelly enough to keep him because of his skill set beyond his arm....see how that works?

Barkley
He'll probably never be a starter in this league, but he's got a much better chance than TeBlow does (at least as QB).


If it was strictly about throwing the ball I agree completely.


I completely agree with that. I'm hoping he makes the team. Probably won't be as QB tho, if he ever does.

Now that Kinne has embraced a position change we both might get our wish.

xsv
I'm as shocked as you that some of your points are completely lacking in clarity, as well as logic.

QUOTE
Well I get you turning a little bitchy

Nah, just responding in kind to your bitchy, condescending reply.

QUOTE
But please let me know which point you don understand....

I believe I made it pretty clear already which of your points didn't make sense, and which didn't hold water.

QUOTE
after i pointed out your fallacy of their respective NFL experience.

You didn't point out any fallacy of their receptive experience. You brought up the even though TeBlow was drafted 5 years ago, he's only been on an NFL roster for 3 of them, being out of football for 2. That's a good point, but it doens't diminish the point that TebLow was drafted 5 years ago, and is now 27 years old, which is pretty damn old to be learning how to throw a football, IMO. He's had an opportunity to work on his craft in the NFL for 5 years, 3 more years than Barkley.

QUOTE
hmmmm...sounds like what they said about Sanchez after 5 years in the NFL

Ummmm...no. Sanchez had good mechanics and could throw the ball accurately since he came into the league. His issue has always been mental mistakes and lapses in judgement.

QUOTE
My point here was simple....neither has the confidence of Kelly as far as being a traditional QB, Tebow may (and that is the key word here) intrigue Kelly enough to keep him because of his skill set beyond his arm....see how that works?

My point here is that Barkley still could. He got good mechanics, an average arm, and average accuracy. Basically he's got all of the minimum requirements. TeBlow doens't have all of the basic requirements to be an actual NFL qb. When you're talking about QB, it doens't matter how well they can run if they can't throw the ball worth a damn. Competency throwing the football may not be 100% of the requirement to be a good QB, but it is of much greater importance then running the ball. That's why the guy has been out of football for 2 years. Pretty simple, actually.

QUOTE
Now that Kinne has embraced a position change we both might get our wish.

This may actually Kelly the option to just gotr with 2 QBs. It would be a risky move, but he's already demonstrated a fondness for guys that play multiple positions. I don't know how good Kinne really is at WR, tho. is he good enough to the the #5 wr and the #3qb?
BKRuger
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 25 2015, 09:33 PM) *
The reporters are saying he looks good in the OTA's.

Early for sure.

Just sayin'


I'd be interested to hear what DeMarco Murray thinks of him for sure.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 26 2015, 09:27 AM) *
I'm as shocked as you that some of your points are completely lacking in clarity, as well as logic.

OK...I was trying to be nice but since you feel the need to go that route...fine...lets play..

Nah, just responding in kind to your bitchy, condescending reply.

it is only condescending when I am trying to make you sound stupid....you handle that fine by yourself..

I believe I made it pretty clear already which of your points didn't make sense, and which didn't hold water.

I am afraid you did not but I guess I

You didn't point out any fallacy of their receptive experience. You brought up the even though TeBlow was drafted 5 years ago, he's only been on an NFL roster for 3 of them, being out of football for 2. That's a good point, but it doens't diminish the point that TebLow was drafted 5 years ago, and is now 27 years old, which is pretty damn old to be learning how to throw a football, IMO. He's had an opportunity to work on his craft in the NFL for 5 years, 3 more years than Barkley.

The right answer is you were wrong....but hey..don't let facts get in the way of a good story...


Ummmm...no. Sanchez had good mechanics and could throw the ball accurately since he came into the league. His issue has always been mental mistakes and lapses in judgement.

Hmmm...roughly 55% completion percentage with the Jets...a real sniper....


My point here is that Barkley still could. He got good mechanics, an average arm, and average accuracy. Basically he's got all of the minimum requirements. TeBlow doens't have all of the basic requirements to be an actual NFL qb. When you're talking about QB, it doens't matter how well they can run if they can't throw the ball worth a damn. Competency throwing the football may not be 100% of the requirement to be a good QB, but it is of much greater importance then running the ball. That's why the guy has been out of football for 2 years. Pretty simple, actually.

Apparently your reading comprehension is as bad as your discussion skills...I clearly said that it is Tebow's ability to run that Chip might like...he never used barkley so he might want that other option on his bench rather than an average arm with average accuracy that never plays...oh wait...he had a promising year last year...I forgot...I am amazed that no teams are breaking down the door with trade offers for Barkley...


This may actually Kelly the option to just gotr with 2 QBs. It would be a risky move, but he's already demonstrated a fondness for guys that play multiple positions. I don't know how good Kinne really is at WR, tho. is he good enough to the the #5 wr and the #3qb?

kelly played 2QBs last year amidst all the injuries including a banged up Sanchez clearly avoiding playing Barkley at all costs.....if they need another Qb they will go out and get another noodle arm off the street.....but Barkley will make the All Pro preseason team...

Eyrie
If Kelly has such a low opinion of Barkley, then why is he still here? Clearly he sees some hope that Barkley could become a serviceable back up or he'd have brought in a late round pick or UDFA to compete with Tebow.

The fundamental requirement for the role is an ability to pass the ball and, as I said earlier, there is less evidence here against Barkley than there is against Tebow. Tebow has the edge over Barkley because he can run, but if that is so important then we only need a warm body to take the snap and hand the ball to Murray or Mathews who are better runners.

If a QB is to be judged on his ability to run the ball, then Tebow wouldn't have been out of football for two years and we'd have kept Vick (or at least brought him back).

The sooner camp gets here the better so we can judge Barkley's wounded ducks against Tebow's inability to put the ball in the same zip code as the receiver.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jul 27 2015, 05:36 AM) *
Tebow has the edge over Barkley because he can run, ...

Kelly has said repeatedly that a running QB isn't important. What's important is a QB who can make quick, accurate decisions on the where the ball is going and deliver it accurately. Those are all problems with Tebow.
xsv
QUOTE
OK...I was trying to be nice but since you feel the need to go that route...fine...lets play..

You must be a real douche when you're not going out of your way to be nice. But yes, let's play! I'm always down for a good debate, but especially with someone so easy to get turned around as yourself.

QUOTE
it is only condescending when I am trying to make you sound stupid....you handle that fine by yourself..


You obviously misunderstand the meaning of condescending. Try google or dictionary.com.

QUOTE
The right answer is you were wrong....but hey..don't let facts get in the way of a good story...


You are seeing questions that aren't there. Another example illustrating a lack of reading comprehension.

QUOTE
Hmmm...roughly 55% completion percentage with the Jets...a real sniper....


Teblow is still learning how to throw the ball properly, 5 years after being drafted. Enough said.

QUOTE
Apparently your reading comprehension is as bad as your discussion skills...I clearly said that it is Tebow's ability to run that Chip might like...he never used barkley so he might want that other option on his bench rather than an average arm with average accuracy that never plays...oh wait...he had a promising year last year...I forgot...I am amazed that no teams are breaking down the door with trade offers for Barkley...


Everyone likes Teblows running ability. Even me. If he played RB, or FB, or even TE, I think he'd be a player in this league. Unfortunately, he plays QB.

I understand you're saying you're only ok with Teblow playing for a play or two in wildcat situations in lieu of a 3rd string qb.

What I said was that I doubted it would happen. I think it's too big of a risk. I don't like the idea of bringing a rag armed QB in at the last minute if our 1st and 2nd stringers went down. I'd rather have someone that actually knows the offense and can actually throw the ball occasionally. I'm pretty sure Kelly would, too.

I also stated that I thought Barkley had more upside and potential as a starting QB than Teblow does. As far as a QB comparison goes, Barkley is the better QB, has a better shot of sticking with the team, and has a better shot of starting in this league than Teblow does. All of this adds up to more potential. Which of this do you not agree with?

If we only had these two guys as a option, as a one or two play per game wildcat option, Teblow is a better choice. As a QB in this league, there's not many people on this board (or GMs in the league for that matter, based on the last two years) would pick Teblow.

It simply comes down to what do you want out of your 3rd string QB. Do you want a developmental guy who plays QB and can run your offense? Or do you want a guy who can only throw the ball 5 or 6 times per game and runs the wildcat play after play?

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jul 27 2015, 05:36 AM) *
If Kelly has such a low opinion of Barkley, then why is he still here? Clearly he sees some hope that Barkley could become a serviceable back up or he'd have brought in a late round pick or UDFA to compete with Tebow.

The fundamental requirement for the role is an ability to pass the ball and, as I said earlier, there is less evidence here against Barkley than there is against Tebow. Tebow has the edge over Barkley because he can run, but if that is so important then we only need a warm body to take the snap and hand the ball to Murray or Mathews who are better runners.

If a QB is to be judged on his ability to run the ball, then Tebow wouldn't have been out of football for two years and we'd have kept Vick (or at least brought him back).

The sooner camp gets here the better so we can judge Barkley's wounded ducks against Tebow's inability to put the ball in the same zip code as the receiver.


hmmmm...using your logic....if he has such confidence in Barkley why bring a guy who can't put the ball in the same zip code to challenge him?

Too funny.....
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 27 2015, 11:29 AM) *
hmmmm...using your logic....if he has such confidence in Barkley why bring a guy who can't put the ball in the same zip code to challenge him?

Too funny.....


What's really funny is that you don't seem to realize that we've had 4 QBs in camp every year for the 20 years or so.


Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 27 2015, 10:01 AM) *
You must be a real douche when you're not going out of your way to be nice. But yes, let's play! I'm always down for a good debate, but especially with someone so easy to get turned around as yourself.


Teblow is still learning how to throw the ball properly, 5 years after being drafted. Enough said.



Everyone likes Teblows running ability. Even me. If he played RB, or FB, or even TE, I think he'd be a player in this league. Unfortunately, he plays QB.

I understand you're saying you're only ok with Teblow playing for a play or two in wildcat situations in lieu of a 3rd string qb.

What I said was that I doubted it would happen. I think it's too big of a risk. I don't like the idea of bringing a rag armed QB in at the last minute if our 1st and 2nd stringers went down. I'd rather have someone that actually knows the offense and can actually throw the ball occasionally. I'm pretty sure Kelly would, too.

I also stated that I thought Barkley had more upside and potential as a starting QB than Teblow does. As far as a QB comparison goes, Barkley is the better QB, has a better shot of sticking with the team, and has a better shot of starting in this league than Teblow does. All of this adds up to more potential. Which of this do you not agree with?

If we only had these two guys as a option, as a one or two play per game wildcat option, Teblow is a better choice. As a QB in this league, there's not many people on this board (or GMs in the league for that matter, based on the last two years) would pick Teblow.

It simply comes down to what do you want out of your 3rd string QB. Do you want a developmental guy who plays QB and can run your offense? Or do you want a guy who can only throw the ball 5 or 6 times per game and runs the wildcat play after play?


i am only a real douche to hypocrites....

first...you see a risk as too great for a 3rd string QB..as a 3rd string QB there is no risk because any team that actually goes to a 3rd string QB is in deep trouble regardless.

I do want a 3rd string QB that can develop...Barkley aint that guy.....I would prefer they had taken a shot at a late round QB but they didn't...maybe because they wanted Tebow or maybe they just don't really care too much about the 3rd QB. The history of the league is littered with teams going to the open market if their starter gets hurt regardless of who their 3rd QB is. Just a little stat on Barkley you might like.....he has dressed for 14 games in 2 years.....that's it.

The bottom line on this entire discussion is that you see the 3rd QB slot as important. I think it has more to do with you disliking Tebow personally(his value set) than you caring about the 3rd QB slot. it is irrational that you could value the spot so much for any other reason. Neither, as a traditional QB, will ever sniff the field unless catastrophe has occurred and neither could carry the full weight of a season to a meaningful conclusion. With Sanchez clearly Chips preferred backup for the next year or 2 there really is nothing for a 3rd QB to do. If they can utilize that spot for someone who offers flexibility that guy might even dress for games.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 27 2015, 03:46 PM) *
i am only a real douche to hypocrites....

Then I suppose we're all hypocrites....

(see what I did there?)
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 27 2015, 03:46 PM) *
first...you see a risk as too great for a 3rd string QB..as a 3rd string QB there is no risk because any team that actually goes to a 3rd string QB is in deep trouble regardless.

Nope. The risk is little about his non ability to play quarterback. We can all agree ANY 3rd string quarterback playing actual regular season games for any team is a recipe for loss. The risk is in his dip shit booster club members along the marginal fan base and media. The fact that a TOTAL NON factor of a dog shit quarterback getting so much attention from so many dip shit fans fawning over him for his love for their imaginary friend, and the lower eschelon(sp?) of media whores who pander to those dip shit fans presents a rather great risk to the locker room, chemistry, and potential distractions.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 27 2015, 11:46 AM) *
The bottom line on this entire discussion is that you see the 3rd QB slot as important.


Obviously.


QUOTE
I think it has more to do with you disliking Tebow personally(his value set) than you caring about the 3rd QB slot.


You think I have a problem with Teblow's value set? I couldn't give less of a shit about his value set, tbh. It's not like he's a felon, or dog killer. I'd LOVE to have him on the team as a RB, FB or TE. I just don't like him as a QB because he doesn't meet what I would consider to be the main requirement every QB needs... to be able to properly throw a football.

Do you think that all 31 other coaches and GMs in the NFL have similar issues with his value set? Why was he out of football so long, in your opinion?


QUOTE
it is irrational that you could value the spot so much for any other reason.

Rationality often seems irrational to an irrational mind.

Here's a question for you. How many QBs last year started as the 3rd string, and ended up with at least one start? I bet the answer will surprise you.

QUOTE
With Sanchez clearly Chips preferred backup for the next year or 2 there really is nothing for a 3rd QB to do.

Except for play QB if the starter and backup get injured. You know, things the 3rd string qb normally does.

Look, I understand your desire to better leverage what you deem to be a useless position. But the fact of the matter is, there's more chance that the 3rd string QB will see action at some point than I (and most coaches) are comfortable with, even if it's just for a game or two until the 1st or 2nd stringer can get healthy. And if/when that happens, I'd prefer to have a guy back there that has at least already learned how to throw the football.

QUOTE
If they can utilize that spot for someone who offers flexibility that guy might even dress for games.

The 3rd string QB dresses for games, right? Maybe not all of them, but I guarantee he'll dress all of them when the starter is even slightly dinged. I'd be interested in knowing what games Barkley did not dress for to verify.

If you substitute "see the field" for "dress for games", then you can at least present some semblance of a point. Like I said before, I understand what you are trying to say (albeit, clumsily), I just doubt it would happen. I think there's too much risk to not having a real QB as the 3rd string qb. If we were going to do that, why have a QB at all? Simply eliminate the position, and add an extra WR or Runningback.

Brian Mitchell was the 3rd string RB for the Redskins for a couple of years, so it's not like it's unheard of. Do you remember exactly when that stopped? I believe it was the year after Mark Rypkin and Jeff Rutledge went down with injury, and that started to appreciate the value of a 3rd string qb. I don't think it's been tried since.

I still shudder at the thought of that one season under buddy ryan when we went through 8 different QBs.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 27 2015, 11:08 AM) *
Kelly has said repeatedly that a running QB isn't important. What's important is a QB who can make quick, accurate decisions on the where the ball is going and deliver it accurately. Those are all problems with Tebow.

Which was exactly the argument I used when Kelly was first appointed and some people drooled over the idea of Vick as his running QB. So we're in agreement here.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 27 2015, 04:29 PM) *
hmmmm...using your logic....if he has such confidence in Barkley why bring a guy who can't put the ball in the same zip code to challenge him?

Too funny.....

Except I didn't say Kelly had confidence in Barkley, only that he still sees some potential based on working with the player. Otherwise he'd have cut Barkley and brought in a late round pick or UDFA to compete with Tebow for the #3 job.

It therefore follows that Kelly wanted to have a look at what Tebow can and can't do. Not much of the former and too much of the latter will be the conclusion after the Jets game. Tebow will only make it that far because game four doesn't feature the starters, so someone will have to replace Barkley for the second half.

QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 27 2015, 05:21 PM) *
I still shudder at the thought of that one season under buddy ryan when we went through 8 different QBs.

It was only six. And I'd take Goebel, Ryan and Kemp ahead of Tebow.
Dreagon
The more I think about this, the more curious it appears.

I don't buy the idea of Tebow simply being a camp arm. That makes no sense. Those are a dime a dozen, and the rest of them don't come with the media minefield that Tebow does. So I have to conclude that at the very least he is there to challenge Barkley, and possibly was selected as a specialty player for certain offensive packages. I honestly think Barkley is going to have to show something this preseason or he is gone.

On the brighter side, he does provide at least a little distraction from other personnel moves so he's already been of some use.
Dreagon
*deleted double post*
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 27 2015, 11:32 AM) *
What's really funny is that you don't seem to realize that we've had 4 QBs in camp every year for the 20 years or so.


whats really funny is that you are too obtuse to realize that if they wanted a camp arm there are a multitude of guys looking for work that would bring much less attention from the media and beyond that Kinne was already onboard and would not have needed to move to WR or whatever the hell he is now...great work...you are a shining light of reason...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jul 27 2015, 12:12 PM) *
Then I suppose we're all hypocrites....

(see what I did there?)

Nope. The risk is little about his non ability to play quarterback. We can all agree ANY 3rd string quarterback playing actual regular season games for any team is a recipe for loss. The risk is in his dip shit booster club members along the marginal fan base and media. The fact that a TOTAL NON factor of a dog shit quarterback getting so much attention from so many dip shit fans fawning over him for his love for their imaginary friend, and the lower eschelon(sp?) of media whores who pander to those dip shit fans presents a rather great risk to the locker room, chemistry, and potential distractions.


What does his 'dip shit" fan base have to do with it? I understand some clowns here have joined only to tout his media attention outside football...they are as bad as some of the other trolls we have here on other issues but this is not about that. Why Tebow bothers people so much is beyond me. I get you don't like religious folks but this is football and the bottom line is he might be an asset in a form different from a traditional QB in that he may be a fit for wildcat formations near the goal line or in short yardage that would keep Bradford out of danger. What is odd is the ferver of the hate of this guy by people who don't realize, apparently, that they sound just like the dolts who fawn all over him.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jul 27 2015, 03:10 PM) *
Which was exactly the argument I used when Kelly was first appointed and some people drooled over the idea of Vick as his running QB. So we're in agreement here.


Except I didn't say Kelly had confidence in Barkley, only that he still sees some potential based on working with the player. Otherwise he'd have cut Barkley and brought in a late round pick or UDFA to compete with Tebow for the #3 job.

It therefore follows that Kelly wanted to have a look at what Tebow can and can't do. Not much of the former and too much of the latter will be the conclusion after the Jets game. Tebow will only make it that far because game four doesn't feature the starters, so someone will have to replace Barkley for the second half.


It was only six. And I'd take Goebel, Ryan and Kemp ahead of Tebow.


Sooooo....he now has Barkley on board to challenge Tebow? Really? and here I thought it was the other way around....go figure.


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