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nephillymike
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-si...2d-surgery.html


Now what?

Tanking III ??
Joegrane
They could not tank without selling off members of their young core. The young core is too good to be one of the top 5 worst teams, especially after the trade. In addition, Wroten is back healthy and surrounded with shooters and more talent in the paint.

They can't move any of their young Cs due to the situation with Embiid.

Covington and Grant would not be worth much.

Do you also expect them to be weaker on defense this year? Other than Noel, who else is an above average defender.

Haven't they improved their offense in part by weakening their D?


QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 11 2015, 05:12 PM) *

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 11 2015, 05:12 PM) *


why would they tank?

Next year they get Saric.....they already will have 3 or 4 first round picks plus the ability to swap with a dysfunctional Sacramento franchise in the first round. They are not going to win 50 games next year regardless but they will be better....they are in a good spot......

damn Mikey.....you must be one depressing guy to sit next to at a bar...lol
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 11 2015, 06:36 PM) *
why would they tank?

Next year they get Saric.....they already will have 3 or 4 first round picks plus the ability to swap with a dysfunctional Sacramento franchise in the first round. They are not going to win 50 games next year regardless but they will be better....they are in a good spot......

damn Mikey.....you must be one depressing guy to sit next to at a bar...lol



I think they should keep the talent level where it is, mix in a few more D league guys and just coast to no more than 25 wins to get a better pick this year. Only problem with that theory is they need to land some good FA's next year to turn it around and I don't know if they're track record is attracting to FA's.

I mean, if I gave you two choices, what do you do:

1. Keep the talent where it is now, sign no other NBA starter types and win 22-27 games and get a top 6 lottery ball chance

2. Play this year like you need to win every game. sign the best guys that are still out there and will come. Improve by a decent amount and win 35 games and finish aroud 12th or so in the lottery ball chance?

What are the ranges you see right now in wins between your #1 and your #2 option?

And yes, I am a hell of a good bar mate and a fun person to storm the castle with....
BKRuger
We have a lot of talent and picks. The Sixers will be much more fun to watch in the coming years than the Phillies.

This year will be historic, the worst Phils season in the 162-game era. We're on pace for 53 wins, a full 12 wins less than the atrocious 1988 and 2000 teams. The infamous 1972 team where Steve Carlton won almost half their games, that will be a better team than this year - and if Cole Hamels gets shipped, we ain't gettin any better. And you can bet RAJ will still be here. Be depressed about that, at least the Sixers have some sense of direction.
Joegrane
I just want to see enough aging veterans to help mentor the young core.

Let the young players develop this year without looking at Ws and Ls.

I don't think they'll attract a big name FA for at least two years.

They may need to do so to become an elite team. Their odds of finding a future All Star guard in the draft will be reduced as they continue to improve as a team.

Now it looks like the player with the best chance to be a MVP candidate, Embiid, could be a bust.

I hope someone checked him for lead and cadmium. My formerly easily broken bones and abnormal bone density greatly improved after heavy metal detox--Cutler protocol.

I can't imagine Hinkie would let them fall out of the lottery. He'll sell off players before allowing that

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 11 2015, 09:37 PM) *
I think they should keep the talent level where it is, mix in a few more D league guys and just coast to no more than 25 wins to get a better pick this year. Only problem with that theory is they need to land some good FA's next year to turn it around and I don't know if they're track record is attracting to FA's.

I mean, if I gave you two choices, what do you do:

1. Keep the talent where it is now, sign no other NBA starter types and win 22-27 games and get a top 6 lottery ball chance

2. Play this year like you need to win every game. sign the best guys that are still out there and will come. Improve by a decent amount and win 35 games and finish aroud 12th or so in the lottery ball chance?

What are the ranges you see right now in wins between your #1 and your #2 option?
..
nephillymike
To try to frame the answer, here's the range of wins in the NBA for the 14 worst records, aka the lottery. We were 2nd worst in '13-'14 with 19 wins and were 3rd worst in '14='15 with 18 wins. Where do you want us to be at the end of next year?:

Rank.Range of Wins
1st - 15-16
2nd - 17-19
3rd - 18-23
4th - 21-25
5th - 25-25
6th - 27-29
7th - 28-30
8th - 29-32
9th - 33-33
10th-34-37
11th -36-38
12th - 37-38
13th - 39-40
14th - 45-48

BTW, SAC finished 6th and 7th with 29 and 28 wins. Since we have the right to swap with SAC, we can play better and if they are worse, we can reap the benefits of a better season AND a better draft spot!

I'm thinking 25-27 wins for 5th or 6th. A 7 to 9 win improvement and a tick up from horrendous to just really bad.

That would leave us with the better pick of us and SAC, so figure #5-#6 range, plus LAL, who would likely improve to 9th-12th range, MIA who should make the playoffs so maybe 15th-18th and OKC who should be a mid playoff team so figure 20-24th.

So we could have something like this, if we keep all four picks (doubtful?):

Ours/SAC's - #5
LAL - #9
MIA - #15
OKC #20

I think one more year of semi tanking should get us in the top 5 which is where we need to be.

You ready to semi-tank??
Reality Fan
not a chance....the ownership knows that a 3rd tank season would likely lose any fanbase left......and hurt their new center.....they have a great coach and finally some talent.....
JeeQ
Sixers need to give Chip Kelly a call about some milkshakes
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 12 2015, 01:14 AM) *
not a chance....the ownership knows that a 3rd tank season would likely lose any fanbase left......and hurt their new center.....they have a great coach and finally some talent.....



So you don't want to semi-tank, OK.

What improvements do you want to make to this team this offseason from here on out and where do you think that will get us in #wins for this year?

Most FA's are gone and the draft is over.

How many of the current game attending Sixers fans do you think will go away and never come back if we semi tank? Especially with Embiid's situation where we're not as good as we would have been with him this year? I think that number is very low. Besides they have near cap floor salary and they make money with the new TV deal. I think the team will be OK financially to float another year.
xsv
Maybe I'm optimistic, but I think just putting Okafor in puts us at 10th or higher. He's *that* good offensively.
HobbEs
Best case scenario? Sixers play well, break the 30 win mark, barely make the playoffs and get lucky in the lottery. Remember, we have 4 first rounders next year.
D Rock
QUOTE (xsv @ Jul 12 2015, 01:50 PM) *
Maybe I'm optimistic, but I think just putting Okafor in puts us at 10th or higher. He's *that* good offensively.

He's legit for sure, but with no shooting around him, defenses will collapse in on him. Stauskas is a good shooter who's still finding his NBA legs, but beyond him . . . the cupboard is bare.

Top priority has to be adding more shooters to keep defenses honest.
D Rock
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Jul 13 2015, 01:25 PM) *
Best case scenario? Sixers play well, break the 30 win mark, barely make the playoffs and get lucky in the lottery. Remember, we have 4 first rounders next year.

4 first rounders (albeit in a reportedly historically bad draft class) and Saric coming over after this coming season. It's time to start building rather than collecting "assets".
xsv
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jul 13 2015, 12:32 PM) *
He's legit for sure, but with no shooting around him, defenses will collapse in on him. Stauskas is a good shooter who's still finding his NBA legs, but beyond him . . . the cupboard is bare.

Top priority has to be adding more shooters to keep defenses honest.


Not only is he good from inside, but he's *very* good at finding the open guy and kicking it back out. That's something not a lot of big guys have. I agree it helps to have guys outside that can actually knock the shots down, but it will help that they will be wide open when they get the ball.

No playoffs yet, but close, IMO.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 12 2015, 09:47 AM) *
So you don't want to semi-tank, OK.

What improvements do you want to make to this team this offseason from here on out and where do you think that will get us in #wins for this year?

Most FA's are gone and the draft is over.

How many of the current game attending Sixers fans do you think will go away and never come back if we semi tank? Especially with Embiid's situation where we're not as good as we would have been with him this year? I think that number is very low. Besides they have near cap floor salary and they make money with the new TV deal. I think the team will be OK financially to float another year.



OK...a few points...

First...I think they have made their improvements at this point..

Stauskus gives them a shooter......Richuan Holmes is going to be a stud...mark my words. Okafur gives them something they did not have before...a scoring big man which changes the dynamic of the defenses they will face.

MCrae, if he makes it is an option as a scoring point guard. Ish Smith was actually pretty damn good at the point last year, by the way.

Tokoto is a very good defender. Noels was nearly rookie of the year.

They have a pretty good core to win 30 games by running teams into the ground.

Beyond that the following year they will have 3-4 first round picks and Saric and hopefully Embid.......That is a pretty good place to be even if they trade 2 away to move up they will do well.

Add to that the chance that Grant continues his improvement and Thompson as some veteran presence and you have a decent improvement next year.

I can't see them trying to tank at this point....they have some talent now.
Joegrane
I agree with you.

I think Sixers fans want to see growth from the young core, not maximum Ws.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 12 2015, 12:43 AM) *
...
I'm thinking 25-27 wins for 5th or 6th. A 7 to 9 win improvement and a tick up from horrendous to just really bad.
...
So we could have something like this, if we keep all four picks (doubtful?):

Ours/SAC's - #5
LAL - #9
MIA - #15
OKC #20
....
You ready to semi-tank??

Joegrane
That will be a HUGE topic of discussion 10 months from now!

Will Hinkie roll the dice and package one of his Cs along with pick(s) to move up?

Could Noel plus 5 net the #1 pick or #9 plus Noel give us a second pick in the top 5?

Of course with some lottery luck he might not have to trade a C.

I wish Embiid was projected to play enough later this year to give Hinkie a better feel for his ability.

The process might not result in a championship, but as long as they don't blow their picks next year, they will be an upper echelon team.

They certainly won't be boring.
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 12 2015, 12:43 AM) *
...
So we could have something like this, if we keep all four picks (doubtful?):

Ours/SAC's - #5
LAL - #9
MIA - #15
OKC #20
...

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 13 2015, 04:06 PM) *
OK...a few points...

First...I think they have made their improvements at this point..

Stauskus gives them a shooter......Richuan Holmes is going to be a stud...mark my words. Okafur gives them something they did not have before...a scoring big man which changes the dynamic of the defenses they will face.

MCrae, if he makes it is an option as a scoring point guard. Ish Smith was actually pretty damn good at the point last year, by the way.

Tokoto is a very good defender. Noels was nearly rookie of the year.

They have a pretty good core to win 30 games by running teams into the ground.

Beyond that the following year they will have 3-4 first round picks and Saric and hopefully Embid.......That is a pretty good place to be even if they trade 2 away to move up they will do well.

Add to that the chance that Grant continues his improvement and Thompson as some veteran presence and you have a decent improvement next year.

I can't see them trying to tank at this point....they have some talent now.



Well we're in the same ball park.

My win hope puts is in the 5th-6th spot, your 30 win mark puts us in the 7th-8th spot. We are both not looking to add outside talent beyond this point this year to improve our W total.

Mark this down as agreement!
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