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Reality Fan
McCoy must really be going nuts right now....

Murray was the top rated RB...
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 8 2015, 09:24 PM) *
McCoy must really be going nuts right now....

Murray was the top rated RB...

Where was McCoy?
Dreagon
A healthy Murray is a weapon and a QB's best friend.
mcnabbulous
Not that these rankings mean anything to me (because they're worthless) but I'm curious what all the Chip bashers have to say about this. I mean, they were up in arms about giving up on Shady...who isn't ranked nearly as high.
Eyrie
My view was that we should have got more for McCoy than an injured LB - probably the Bill's third or fourth as well.

I think it was you that pointed out that Murray and Mathews are better suited to Kelly's offense, so I'm relaxed about the new personnel.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 9 2015, 05:40 AM) *
Where was McCoy?


29th....5th RB behind Murray, Lynch, Charles and Bell

McCoy has a lot riding on this year......interesting to see if a guy with a 5 cent head can rally to shove it in Kelly's face or does he fold like a cheap lawn chair?
JeeQ
McCoy is one injury away from officially having the worst year ever...

Though I have to admit I'm anxiously awaiting what should be a hilarious response to this ranking
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jul 9 2015, 01:29 PM) *
My view was that we should have got more for McCoy than an injured LB - probably the Bill's third or fourth as well.

I think it was you that pointed out that Murray and Mathews are better suited to Kelly's offense, so I'm relaxed about the new personnel.



I have to say...I don't get what folks don't understand about trading in the NFL....everyone expects the Herschel Walker trade....trades suck in the NFL...plain and simple......people think that there was a treasure trove out there for McCoy and Jackson and continue to mention the returns or lack thereof......The NFL is media driven and everyone knows what everyone else is thinking......getting Alonso was actually a steal.....

Trades are tough...
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jul 9 2015, 01:29 PM) *
My view was that we should have got more for McCoy than an injured LB - probably the Bill's third or fourth as well.

I think it was you that pointed out that Murray and Mathews are better suited to Kelly's offense, so I'm relaxed about the new personnel.


They actually asked for more. Reports were the Birds asked for picks but the Bills cupboard was bare this year. They had no first round pick, only one in 2nd and one in the 3rd and then a 5th rounder after that. They weren't giving any picks.

Other teams didn't want to trade for Shady because of his price tag. They had to take what they could get

nephillymike
I think that Murray is probably a better fit for our offense than Shady. And based on last year, he deserves the higher rating. But #4 in the NFL?? I don't see that.

But glad he's on our team. And he's a real nice guy so it's great to see him here for that reason.

However, assuming both are healthy this year, methinks McCoy is rated the higher of the two this time next year.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 9 2015, 08:16 PM) *
I think that Murray is probably a better fit for our offense than Shady. And based on last year, he deserves the higher rating. But #4 in the NFL?? I don't see that.

But glad he's on our team. And he's a real nice guy so it's great to see him here for that reason.

However, assuming both are healthy this year, methinks McCoy is rated the higher of the two this time next year.



Rex Ryan

you sure?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 9 2015, 08:16 PM) *
I think that Murray is probably a better fit for our offense than Shady. And based on last year, he deserves the higher rating. But #4 in the NFL?? I don't see that.

But glad he's on our team. And he's a real nice guy so it's great to see him here for that reason.

However, assuming both are healthy this year, methinks McCoy is rated the higher of the two this time next year.



Mikey....tsk tsk tsk.....now you question the opinion of the guys who are actually on the field? yikes.....

lets wager.....
JeeQ
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 9 2015, 05:16 PM) *
I think that Murray is probably a better fit for our offense than Shady. And based on last year, he deserves the higher rating. But #4 in the NFL?? I don't see that.

But glad he's on our team. And he's a real nice guy so it's great to see him here for that reason.

However, assuming both are healthy this year, methinks McCoy is rated the higher of the two this time next year.


I still think DeMarco is the beneficiary of playing behind the league's best O-Line; meanwhile McCoy was the lucky recipient of an O-Line that was never the same from the last week

If McCoy and Murray are both healthy I take McCoy every single time
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jul 10 2015, 06:21 PM) *
I still think DeMarco is the beneficiary of playing behind the league's best O-Line; meanwhile McCoy was the lucky recipient of an O-Line that was never the same from the last week

If McCoy and Murray are both healthy I take McCoy every single time


Wasn't the Eagles line, injuries and all, a more highly rated run blocking line than the Dallas line?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Jul 10 2015, 12:46 PM) *
Wasn't the Eagles line, injuries and all, a more highly rated run blocking line than the Dallas line?

I don't know about the ratings, but they were inevitably better, because Dallas is overrated with regards to most everything they do. Their OL is much improved to a few years ago, but not nearly as good as people are making them out to be.

They were just so bad for nearly a decade that it's deceiving.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jul 10 2015, 06:17 PM) *
I don't know about the ratings, but they were inevitably better, because Dallas is overrated with regards to most everything they do. Their OL is much improved to a few years ago, but not nearly as good as people are making them out to be.

They were just so bad for nearly a decade that it's deceiving.


Here is where I read the rankings.

2014 OLine Rankings

Take them for what they are worth.
JeeQ
When it comes to the O-Line I've never wanted Mcnabbolous to be right more in my life... his unflinching faith in them almost gives me faith
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 9 2015, 11:25 PM) *
Mikey....tsk tsk tsk.....now you question the opinion of the guys who are actually on the field? yikes.....

lets wager.....



I would like it to be a bragging rights bet as I don't relish rooting against the Rb for my team.

However, if you value the player rankings, here's what they were for both guys since 2012


2015 Murray 4th, McCoy 29th
2014 McCoy 5th, Murray 87th
2013 McCoy 45th, Murray not listed
2012 McCoy 18th, Murray not listed.

One year does not a better back make.

Please don't act like McCoy isn't a top RB. I'm glad we got Murray and he might be better for our system and we got Alonzo too so I'm not complaining, and the fact that Murray is a nice guy is great (compared to McCoy) but McCoy is a top notch RB in the NFL. I think Murray is too, but he has some catching up to do to match McCoy.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 11 2015, 06:03 PM) *
I would like it to be a bragging rights bet as I don't relish rooting against the Rb for my team.

However, if you value the player rankings, here's what they were for both guys since 2012


2015 Murray 4th, McCoy 29th
2014 McCoy 5th, Murray 87th
2013 McCoy 45th, Murray not listed
2012 McCoy 18th, Murray not listed.

One year does not a better back make.

Please don't act like McCoy isn't a top RB. I'm glad we got Murray and he might be better for our system and we got Alonzo too so I'm not complaining, and the fact that Murray is a nice guy is great (compared to McCoy) but McCoy is a top notch RB in the NFL. I think Murray is too, but he has some catching up to do to match McCoy.


First....where did I act like McCoy isn't a top RB? We will soon see how good he really is...

I should say the same thing about your opinion of Murray. The only thing that has kept his cumulative totals so far behind McCoy is injury.(a sprained foot cost him 3 and broken ankle cost him 3)...his YPC is higher than McCoy's.

It is rather funny to read your posts dismissing him as if he is a consolation prize. Funny thing is he led the NFL and your buddy McCoy in rushing by a wide margin.

and before you start crowing about a dominant O line in Dallas....2 of the previous 3 seasons he was over 5 ypc with terrible o Lines.(not to mention the Eagles O line was actually rated as better run blockers than Dallas last year).

He also is a valuable receiving option.....in fact....when you look att both their careers and their production I am hard pressed to see where you think there is any catching up to do much less make Murray sound like a consolation prize. Add to that the fact that the guys who play against both of them clearly voted one far ahead of the other and I am left scratching my head......maybe you need to sell the business and take a FO job.......

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 11 2015, 06:32 PM) *
First....where did I act like McCoy isn't a top RB? We will soon see how good he really is...

I should say the same thing about your opinion of Murray. The only thing that has kept his cumulative totals so far behind McCoy is injury.(a sprained foot cost him 3 and broken ankle cost him 3)...his YPC is higher than McCoy's.

It is rather funny to read your posts dismissing him as if he is a consolation prize. Funny thing is he led the NFL and your buddy McCoy in rushing by a wide margin.

and before you start crowing about a dominant O line in Dallas....2 of the previous 3 seasons he was over 5 ypc with terrible o Lines.(not to mention the Eagles O line was actually rated as better run blockers than Dallas last year).

He also is a valuable receiving option.....in fact....when you look att both their careers and their production I am hard pressed to see where you think there is any catching up to do much less make Murray sound like a consolation prize. Add to that the fact that the guys who play against both of them clearly voted one far ahead of the other and I am left scratching my head......maybe you need to sell the business and take a FO job.......



Not a consolation prize.

A horizontal move with a LB kicker thrown in.

And like I said, those same guys who played against both have said McCoy was better in 3 of the 4 years.

We got a good LB which is a big plus, but we needed to pay much higher guaranteed money to land him which is a minus.

Like I said, horizontal move.

Not complaining and Murray is easier to cheer for as he's not the jerk McCoy is.

I'm cool with it.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 11 2015, 09:30 PM) *
Not a consolation prize.

A horizontal move with a LB kicker thrown in.

And like I said, those same guys who played against both have said McCoy was better in 3 of the 4 years.

We got a good LB which is a big plus, but we needed to pay much higher guaranteed money to land him which is a minus.

Like I said, horizontal move.

Not complaining and Murray is easier to cheer for as he's not the jerk McCoy is.

I'm cool with it.



Maybe it is because Murray has only been in the league 4 years or is he supposed to be a stud as a rookie?...he actually was with 894 yds.
hmmm...do you know anything about this guy?

His only real down year was when he sprained his foot....

He is a stud and maybe...just maybe...he will be better than McCoy...Maybe......but he already has the numbers in his past....he has played 4 years and last year was his first and only heavy load....

By the way...his first 4 years total yards are nearly identical to McCoys except in Dallas he was primarily a runner with more yards than McCoy on the ground but McCoy had more receiving yds. due to Reid's screen game.

I actually think it is an upgrade to a younger back who is a better runner in this scheme and maybe just a better runner period....Maybe....lol
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 12 2015, 12:22 AM) *
Maybe it is because Murray has only been in the league 4 years or is he supposed to be a stud as a rookie?...he actually was with 894 yds.
hmmm...do you know anything about this guy?

His only real down year was when he sprained his foot....

He is a stud and maybe...just maybe...he will be better than McCoy...Maybe......but he already has the numbers in his past....he has played 4 years and last year was his first and only heavy load....

By the way...his first 4 years total yards are nearly identical to McCoys except in Dallas he was primarily a runner with more yards than McCoy on the ground but McCoy had more receiving yds. due to Reid's screen game.

I actually think it is an upgrade to a younger back who is a better runner in this scheme and maybe just a better runner period....Maybe....lol
I'm happy to have Murray, but his style takes more of a pounding than McCoy. The average career for a RB is something less than 4 years and that should be a concern. Logic would say that McCoy should have a longer shelf life because he avoids more direct hits.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 12 2015, 09:25 AM) *
I'm happy to have Murray, but his style takes more of a pounding than McCoy. The average career for a RB is something less than 4 years and that should be a concern. Logic would say that McCoy should have a longer shelf life because he avoids more direct hits.


one flaw in that logic.....McCoy has 500 more carries and 2 more seasons under his belt at this point in their careers......last year was nearly double Murray's highest previous total and do you really think he will have 400 carries with Matthews and Sproles in the stable?
BKRuger
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 12 2015, 08:25 AM) *
I'm happy to have Murray, but his style takes more of a pounding than McCoy. The average career for a RB is something less than 4 years and that should be a concern. Logic would say that McCoy should have a longer shelf life because he avoids more direct hits.


I'd be surprised if Murray sees more than 15 touches per game.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 12 2015, 02:20 PM) *
one flaw in that logic.....McCoy has 500 more carries and 2 more seasons under his belt at this point in their careers......last year was nearly double Murray's highest previous total and do you really think he will have 400 carries with Matthews and Sproles in the stable?

All I'm saying is that his production, or Mathews' production for that matter, aren't a given. That's probably one reason why they're both here. Also, that he signed two physical backs with proven skills yet with injury history instead of one and a rookie could mean that Kelly wants to go for IT this year. A rookie may run well but his blitz p/u and blocking skills will probably take time to develop.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 12 2015, 02:42 PM) *
All I'm saying is that his production, or Mathews' production for that matter, aren't a given. That's probably one reason why they're both here. Also, that he signed two physical backs with proven skills yet with injury history instead of one and a rookie could mean that Kelly wants to go for IT this year. A rookie may run well but his blitz p/u and blocking skills will probably take time to develop.


What do you mean by a given? Murray played all 16 last year....he had on year where he missed 6 games with a sprained foot.....he is hardly injury prone.

By the way.....McCoy missed 4 games in the same year Murray missed 6......go figure.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 12 2015, 05:43 PM) *
What do you mean by a given? Murray played all 16 last year....he had on year where he missed 6 games with a sprained foot.....he is hardly injury prone.

By the way.....McCoy missed 4 games in the same year Murray missed 6......go figure.

Although I didn't say 'injury prone', last year was the first year he played 16 games:
QUOTE
2014 NFL Hand Murray fractured the fourth metacarpal in his hand and needed surgery to repair it. He did not miss any games
2013 NFL Knee Murray sprained his MCL in week 6 and missed the following 2 games
2012 NFL Leg Murray suffered a hamstring pull in training and missed OTAs
2012 NFL Foot Sprained foot against Baltimore and missed the next 6 games
2011 NFL Ankle DeMarco Murray fractured his right ankle and was placed on IR missing the remaining 3 games.
2011 NFL Leg Missed first 2 preseason games with hamstring issues
2008 College Leg Pulled a hamstring and missed a game
2007 College Knee Dislocated his patella and missed the following 3 games
Linc ...
By far, not the worst injury history, but following a 436 carry season (not including preseason) it's not a reach to think that he could experience some down time.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jul 12 2015, 06:27 PM) *
Although I didn't say 'injury prone', last year was the first year he played 16 games:
Linc ...
By far, not the worst injury history, but following a 436 carry season (not including preseason) it's not a reach to think that he could experience some down time.


If 2015 was expected to be a repeat of 2014 you might be right but he probably wont see 250 carries with Matthews and Sproles.

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