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nephillymike
Since trading Holliday, drafting MCW, trading Young, drafting Noel, drafting Embiid and Saric, Saric's decision to stay in Europe and now drafting Okafor, and the protected picks we have going forward (LAL, OKC, MIA)

One to Ten, how do you feel about the Sixers plan?

Do you advocate tanking another year, or do we go all out to win or do you try to do something in the middle?
Zero
Not much of a hoops fan but I'd try to win every game. Getting the players used to playing together and installing a hunger to win sounds important. Get them playing well and maybe they can attract a FA or two to fill needs.
JaxEagle
Phillies only draft middle infielders and Sixers only draft 7 footers - lol

If Embiid gets healthy we could be good down low.


PS - thanks for the post about all the immature talk and it being moderated. I may not be a valuable poster but I was one of those that had basically decided to bail. I notice that we have lost several other long time posters it seems.

Jax
HobbEs
This is the year Mikey. We've drafted arguably the best player in each of the last 3 drafts. If they don't show us something this coming season then the tank was for naught.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Jun 26 2015, 08:11 AM) *
This is the year Mikey. We've drafted arguably the best player in each of the last 3 drafts. If they don't show us something this coming season then the tank was for naught.

I'm not willing to write them off if they're unable to thrive this year. The perimeter is still lacking.

It's hard to argue with Hinkie's mission though. Drafting the best players will ultimately lead to success. He may have to get more creative than if he we had gotten some of the breaks in the draft, but ultimately I think he'll continue to stockpile talent and balance things out a bit.

I'm not sure what alternative people would be happy about. Being a middle of the road, non-contender? This was the only path forward.
Joegrane
I agree about the current state of the rebuild. Next year's draft will make or break Hinkie.

He has had some bad luck. The elite guard he needs has eludied him--Wiggins, Russell. Lakers, Heat and OKC all had unusually bad seasons and so the Sixers did not get those picks this year. For a while it looked like the Sixers might get two of those picks and higher than expected. The slower healing of Embiid is potentially catastrophic as I've explained previously about my own former mysterious bone density problem. Their player who most easily projects to be an All Star may be a bust.

He has had some good luck. Noel developed nicely last year, including improvements in FT shooting. Two of their long, young wings are developing into the 3 and D role with improved 3pt shooting; however they are not going to be All Stars.

You need two or three All Star players to win a championship, one of which needs to be one of the top league MVP candidates.

Embiiid projects as one if healthy, a big if.

Russell would have projected as another, but now Hinkie will have to decide which two of the three C's he wants for the future. My guess is that they'll work on Okafor's deficiencies at the FT line and on D and trade him before or on draft day next year. He'll have lots of ammunition to use to trade up and get a big-time guard.

If he does not move up next year or get lucky in the lottery he will not likely have any more top 5 picks to use to find a future All Star. He'll have to get lucky with his picks in the 5-15 range.

My guess is that the Sixers will not get the elite guard they need in the draft to be a championship team. Maybe they'll be able to build a very good nucleus and attract a free agent All Star guard. Otherwise I think they'll develop into a very good team, but not championship team.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 26 2015, 10:38 AM) *
I'm not willing to write them off if they're unable to thrive this year. The perimeter is still lacking.

It's hard to argue with Hinkie's mission though. Drafting the best players will ultimately lead to success. He may have to get more creative than if he we had gotten some of the breaks in the draft, but ultimately I think he'll continue to stockpile talent and balance things out a bit.

I'm not sure what alternative people would be happy about. Being a middle of the road, non-contender? This was the only path forward.
nephillymike
I'd put my satisfaction at this point at about a 3.

We have three Centers, one of who is hurt and who may not be able to play this year, or effectively in future years for that matter.

So that could give us one C and one PF and a guy who will likely stay in Europe for the next two years until he doesn't have to settle for the NBA rookie contract.

Stupid me expected two healthy big men, a nice G and hope on the horizon with Saric coming THIS year.

Looks like we'll have two bigs who can play and squatah!!

For the record, I am of the belief that it takes absolutely zero talent to do what Hinkie has done.

If you told me, an NBA know nothing, to tank for two years and pick the best player in the draft in each year, this is exactly where we'd be. Arm me with an education on the foot problems of big men and the economic realities of well paid European players coming to the NBA, of which Hinkie should have had, then we should be in a better spot.

We should have four 1st round picks next year, ours LAL, MIA, OKC. Maybe we get lucky on some of those, but I don't know. Those teams who's picks we have all try to win.

I say if Brown is OK with it, Tank III baybee. C'mon Hinkie, you can do it!!

BTW, this situation illustrates how little attendance means to NBA teams. With that new TV deal, they don't need to try to win to make money. And, unlike the NFL, unsused cap doesn't roll over to a future year. It's use it or lose it. And those cheap payrolls these last few years will bring us no future benefit. It's a shame. Makes for a bad product.
nephillymike
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Jun 26 2015, 07:17 AM) *
Phillies only draft middle infielders and Sixers only draft 7 footers - lol

If Embiid gets healthy we could be good down low.


PS - thanks for the post about all the immature talk and it being moderated. I may not be a valuable poster but I was one of those that had basically decided to bail. I notice that we have lost several other long time posters it seems.

Jax



No problem. Hopefully it gets back to being a better place. Thanks to the admins for making it happen.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2015, 05:42 AM) *
Since trading Holliday, drafting MCW, trading Young, drafting Noel, drafting Embiid and Saric, Saric's decision to stay in Europe and now drafting Okafor, and the protected picks we have going forward (LAL, OKC, MIA)

One to Ten, how do you feel about the Sixers plan?

Do you advocate tanking another year, or do we go all out to win or do you try to do something in the middle?

When did the possibility of Saric coming over before year 3 suddenly become a certainty that did not happen? When he was drafted it was said he wasn't coming until year 3 and after gargano makes a comment on it suddenly it is gospel and a great failure that it did not happen?.....he would have been an idiot to come over now...he would have left a ton of money on the table.....on both sides of the Atlantic...

I do think it is time to start winning....Big O was a great pick......it also gives them another year to heal embid and still have a real big man...now if one of them can play the 4 the Sixers could get scary good
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 29 2015, 07:03 PM) *
When did the possibility of Saric coming over before year 3 suddenly become a certainty that did not happen? When he was drafted it was said he wasn't coming until year 3 and after gargano makes a comment on it suddenly it is gospel and a great failure that it did not happen?.....he would have been an idiot to come over now...he would have left a ton of money on the table.....on both sides of the Atlantic...

I do think it is time to start winning....Big O was a great pick......it also gives them another year to heal embid and still have a real big man...now if one of them can play the 4 the Sixers could get scary good



Problem is, what FA would want to come here?

Where do we get the two guards and SF from?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 29 2015, 07:09 PM) *
Problem is, what FA would want to come here?

Where do we get the two guards and SF from?


ahhh...the great fallacy...money talks and with legitimate big men and money FAs will come...

That is something the Sixers will finally have....salary cap space...they may not get them this year but the wins should increase....next year is going to be crazy with all the picks....they can trade 1 or 2 for a good SF or 2 guard....

D Rock
Agreed with RF.

Cap room brings free agents, not an appealing roster.

Also, did anybody actually watch the sixers last season? Noel is a 4 (FOUR), not a center. Okafor is pretty great insurance if Embiid never gets right. I can't fault them for taking the flier on Joel with the way the draft unfolded last season.

Really, the only missing ingredient at this point is a legit point guard and shooting. It's time to start playing ball. I don't think another year of tanking is going to help. We'll get 2 or 3 additional first rounders next year in addition to our own, AND Saric will come in.

Add to that oodles and oodles of cap space, and it's beginning to look promising.

Joegrane
"Something in the middle"

You play to teach your young core the skills they need, not to win.

You only get veteran FAs to help with leadership, not to win.

The same philosophy will continue in 2016-17 after their haul of 1st rounders and addition of Saric.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2015, 06:42 AM) *
...
One to Ten, how do you feel about the Sixers plan?

Do you advocate tanking another year, or do we go all out to win or do you try to do something in the middle?


mcnabbulous
Hinkie fleeced the Kings last night
Joegrane
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jul 2 2015, 10:11 AM) *
Hinkie fleeced the Kings last night

Wow, how's that for a one sided trade?!

Stauskas looks like a backup SG since he can't guard starting SGs; however, he has a history of being a good shooter. Paired with PG and SF that can get to the rim, he should help to create floor spacing.

Carl Landry is a somewhat undersized PF/4 with a short-range jumper so he fits. He was a high 2nd rounder in 2007. At age 31 he could be a contributor for a couple of years.

The biggest looser in this after the Kings might be Jason Thompson, a 6-11 C, former #12 pick in 08 draft. I assume he is mostly a veteran presence on the team.

I wonder if Thompson will be released as seen in previous deals or if he'll be traded before the deadline next year.
Joegrane
Re Jeremy Lin, FA PG. Some like the fit for the Sixers and think this could happen.

I hope it doesn't happen. He will make the Sixers more of a complete team, esp after the Stauskas, etc aquisition and if Embiid plays.

I want another semi-tank season with D-League PGs so they have a chance to pull a "Cavaliers" and move up in the lottery.

I don't know why Lin would want out of LA unless he does not see playing time after the Laker's draft pick. You know Hinkie won't overpay.


QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 30 2015, 11:22 PM) *
"Something in the middle"

You play to teach your young core the skills they need, not to win.

You only get veteran FAs to help with leadership, not to win.

The same philosophy will continue in 2016-17 after their haul of 1st rounders and addition of Saric.

nephillymike
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2015, 07:56 PM) *
I'd put my satisfaction at this point at about a 3.

We have three Centers, one of who is hurt and who may not be able to play this year, or effectively in future years for that matter.

So that could give us one C and one PF and a guy who will likely stay in Europe for the next two years until he doesn't have to settle for the NBA rookie contract.

Stupid me expected two healthy big men, a nice G and hope on the horizon with Saric coming THIS year.

Looks like we'll have two bigs who can play and squatah!!

For the record, I am of the belief that it takes absolutely zero talent to do what Hinkie has done.

If you told me, an NBA know nothing, to tank for two years and pick the best player in the draft in each year, this is exactly where we'd be. Arm me with an education on the foot problems of big men and the economic realities of well paid European players coming to the NBA, of which Hinkie should have had, then we should be in a better spot.

We should have four 1st round picks next year, ours LAL, MIA, OKC. Maybe we get lucky on some of those, but I don't know. Those teams who's picks we have all try to win.

I say if Brown is OK with it, Tank III baybee. C'mon Hinkie, you can do it!!

BTW, this situation illustrates how little attendance means to NBA teams. With that new TV deal, they don't need to try to win to make money. And, unlike the NFL, unsused cap doesn't roll over to a future year. It's use it or lose it. And those cheap payrolls these last few years will bring us no future benefit. It's a shame. Makes for a bad product.



I think good news from LAL.

Aldredge agreed to sign with SA!! Cousins staying in SAC and Jordan went to DAL. And so far, LAL have done nothing in FA. I think they will be a top 6 pick type team next year which is good for us, but I worry at this rate, they may be top 3 bad which means we don't get their pick!

Joegrane
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 4 2015, 03:20 PM) *
I think good news from LAL.

Aldredge agreed to sign with SA!! Cousins staying in SAC and Jordan went to DAL. And so far, LAL have done nothing in FA. I think they will be a top 6 pick type team next year which is good for us, but I worry at this rate, they may be top 3 bad which means we don't get their pick!

The addition of a healthy Kobe and D. Russell plus a possible second tier FA Big can't help but make them better than they were last year. However the lack of a big time FA acquisition should keep them out of the playoffs in a tough West.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 26 2015, 08:13 AM) *
Not much of a hoops fan but I'd try to win every game. Getting the players used to playing together and installing a hunger to win sounds important. Get them playing well and maybe they can attract a FA or two to fill needs.

Nah, it's much more fun for a player to go in the tank year after year. it instills a winning mentality rolleyes.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jul 4 2015, 03:54 PM) *
The addition of a healthy Kobe and D. Russell plus a possible second tier FA Big can't help but make them better than they were last year. However the lack of a big time FA acquisition should keep them out of the playoffs in a tough West.


Really?
A healthy Kobe? he is over the hill and it is only a matter of time before he gets hurt again. Russell will be Evan Turner part 2.

The Lakers will be terrible once again.

and isn't it funny how much emphasis is placed on the Sixers plan of "tanking" and yet they have not had the worst record in either year? You would think that the teams that finished beneath them would be the highlight of any tanking story......or of those teams with 5 or 8 more wins while actually trying to compete?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 6 2015, 12:59 PM) *
Really?
A healthy Kobe? he is over the hill and it is only a matter of time before he gets hurt again. Russell will be Evan Turner part 2.

The Lakers will be terrible once again.

and isn't it funny how much emphasis is placed on the Sixers plan of "tanking" and yet they have not had the worst record in either year? You would think that the teams that finished beneath them would be the highlight of any tanking story......or of those teams with 5 or 8 more wins while actually trying to compete?


Hold on there bubalooey!!

The Sixers have the least amount of wins over the last two years.

They've tanked very well over a two year period. Sure others may have had a blip here or there below us, but over the statistically significant sample size of two years, there is nobody who tanks like the Hinkster.

Tank You Very Much
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jul 6 2015, 07:29 PM) *
Hold on there bubalooey!!

The Sixers have the least amount of wins over the last two years.

They've tanked very well over a two year period. Sure others may have had a blip here or there below us, but over the statistically significant sample size of two years, there is nobody who tanks like the Hinkster.

Tank You Very Much


did they finish last in wins in either year?
HobbEs
QUOTE
Hold on there bubalooey!!

The Sixers have the least amount of wins over the last two years.


Not true. Last season the Wolves and the Knicks had worse records and the season before the Bucks finished below us in the standings. The Sixers get all the bad press because of tanking by design rather than ineptitude.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Jul 7 2015, 08:11 AM) *
Not true. Last season the Wolves and the Knicks had worse records and the season before the Bucks finished below us in the standings. The Sixers get all the bad press because of tanking by design rather than ineptitude.



Least amount of wins over the last TWO years:

Team......'14-'15........'13-'14......Total
Sixers........18................19..........37
NY Knicks...17................37..........54
T-Wolves....16................40..........56
Bucks.........41................15..........56

Those are the only three teams that finished with fewer wins than us in EITHER year, therefore the only three that have a shot at fewer wins than us.. There may have been a few that sneak in with mid 40's in wins but make no mistake about it

NOBODY TANKS LIKE THE HINKSTER!!
D Rock
I actually watched Okafor play in his summer league debut. He looks very smooth. I look forward to seeing him w Noel. And Grant was a score for a 2nd rounder. The trade is telling me the tank is over. Will they be good? Likely not. But, I'm really thinking we're done w trading top players for future assets.

Okafor has a slick offensive game, really good feet, and a soft touch. He's so Tim-Duncan-like that it's almost a negative (for me personally - as I hate this quality about TD). He has a very unemotional demeanor. And, seems completely devoid of anything in the neighborhood of intensity.

But 20 points, 9 boards, and 2 blocks pretty much defines "a very promising debut."

I also thought T.J. McConnel looked like a potential reserve PG.

.............

ETA: At this point in time, my attitude towards Embiid, is that we took a shot. He was the right call at the time regardless of how it plays out. Ditto, Okafor. From here going forward, anything we get out of him is gravy. If he plays, and is a stud . . . it'd be great. If not? Well, we took the shot.

We've got draft picks coming out the wazoo the next couple of years, and a potentially ridiculous back court. We also now have a guy who can hit from the perimeter via the trade.

I'm not buying the whole "small ball" momentum. That might have some steam in the west, but not in the Atlantic.
Joegrane
The news about Embiid's 2nd surgery doesn't make me feel better about the plan; however there is no longer a bottleneck at Center this year.

It does give both Okafor and Noel more time on the court in their natural positions to develop.


QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2015, 06:42 AM) *
Since trading Holliday, drafting MCW, trading Young, drafting Noel, drafting Embiid and Saric, Saric's decision to stay in Europe and now drafting Okafor, and the protected picks we have going forward (LAL, OKC, MIA)

One to Ten, how do you feel about the Sixers plan?

Do you advocate tanking another year, or do we go all out to win or do you try to do something in the middle?


HobbEs
I feel really bad for Embiid. I hope the surgery works out. If he can come back 100% it's certainly worth the wait.

I do feel the Sixers are handling the situation properly. After watching what a previous regime did with Andrew Toney it's pretty clear they have his long term health in mind.
Joegrane
Maybe Hinkie would like to continue tanking until Manute Bol's 15 yr old son enters the draft. ( Manute Bol was 7' 7" tall)

The kid is already 6-11 and has the skills of a SF! He can dribble and shoot the 3! He looks comfortable and creative with the ball.

Can you imagine a guy around 7' 3" who can take you off the dribble or step back for a 3?! He looks like a future hall of famer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWW26sb_-kU

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2015, 06:42 AM) *
Since trading Holliday, drafting MCW, trading Young, drafting Noel, drafting Embiid and Saric, Saric's decision to stay in Europe and now drafting Okafor, and the protected picks we have going forward (LAL, OKC, MIA)

One to Ten, how do you feel about the Sixers plan?

Do you advocate tanking another year, or do we go all out to win or do you try to do something in the middle?

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