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nephillymike
I just wonder if we aren't back where we were with Andy in the early years where he didn't tolerate any issues.

Remember how Trotter was an issue and out he went and out went our best chance for a NFC Championship?

Sure Trot was wrong in some ways but Andy did not manage it well.

And it cost us.

Then Reid was willing to go out on a limb years later with TO and we came real close to winning a SB.

Reid softened his stance and the team was better for it, IMO.

Are we going to have to wait for Chip's maturation process to get to the same spot that it took Andy six years to get to?

I can't see building a roster without needing the talent of some of the players with issues. If Dez Bryant played here, we would cut him because he threatened to miss some camp and some games. Would Dallas be better without Bryant? I would love it, but they wouldn't be better. I am in no way a Dez fan, but this is the NFL, not a religious retreat.

Anyone can lead men of like mind.

The skill of true leadership is leading men of different mind to the achievement of a common goal.

If you could find enough common minds with enough talent, it may be different. I don't think you can.

Even Belicheat had Moss, Revis, Hernandez, Wolfork etc.

The days of Lombardi's iron rule are long gone.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2015, 09:00 PM) *
I just wonder if we aren't back where we were with Andy in the early years where he didn't tolerate any issues.

Remember how Trotter was an issue and out he went and out went our best chance for a NFC Championship?

Sure Trot was wrong in some ways but Andy did not manage it well.

And it cost us.

Then Reid was willing to go out on a limb years later with TO and we came real close to winning a SB.

Reid softened his stance and the team was better for it, IMO.

Are we going to have to wait for Chip's maturation process to get to the same spot that it took Andy six years to get to?

I can't see building a roster without needing the talent of some of the players with issues. If Dez Bryant played here, we would cut him because he threatened to miss some camp and some games. Would Dallas be better without Bryant? I would love it, but they wouldn't be better. I am in no way a Dez fan, but this is the NFL, not a religious retreat.

Anyone can lead men of like mind.

The skill of true leadership is leading men of different mind to the achievement of a common goal.

If you could find enough common minds with enough talent, it may be different. I don't think you can.

Even Belicheat had Moss, Revis, Hernandez, Wolfork etc.

The days of Lombardi's iron rule are long gone.


I disagree, it may be harder to find 53 guys who live and breathe football, but there are plenty of guys like that. Maybe you don't have superstar talented socially retarded pieces, but I can think of a lot of great players that were completely committed guys too. That's what Chip wants, guys more committed to football than anything else. If Mathis was a guy who had clearly outplayed the contract he signed then he would have a reason, but he had a decent contract for someone who missed half of last season and turns thirty-four this year. On another note, I think Chip wants younger hungry players and Mathis ploy for two straight years said his hunger had shifted from football to $.
mcnabbulous
On one hand, I agree with the early Andy analogy. On the other, the team started to get away from Andy when he made those decisions to get away from high character guys.

The Trotter situation and Mathis situation do have lots of similarities, with the major exception being age.

At the end of the day, I'm content with Chip pushing his vision for the team forward, because when Andy got away from his master plan is really when the wheels fell off.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 13 2015, 08:48 PM) *
On one hand, I agree with the early Andy analogy. On the other, the team started to get away from Andy when he made those decisions to get away from high character guys.

The Trotter situation and Mathis situation do have lots of similarities, with the major exception being age.

At the end of the day, I'm content with Chip pushing his vision for the team forward, because when Andy got away from his master plan is really when the wheels fell off.


The other point where it got away from Andy was when he got control of personnel.

I hear about Mathis age all the time.

PFF had him rated 2nd best OL last year, after coming off an injury.

Would Chip take all of the Seahawks players. Wouldn't have taken all of the Pats players over the years. How about how Strahan had a problem with Coughlin early on. Would he be cut too?

Or our better teams?

TO - no
Trotter - no
Mike Quick - no
Jerome - no
Hugh - no
Watters - no
Randall - no
Joyner - no

all these players had transgressions that would be Eagles career ending incidents under Chip.

All the really good teams I played for had guys who would not pass the Chip test.

I just don't think he can field the best team that way.
Zero
I think it's really not that complicated. Kelly is trying to build something that is dependent on the new young talent buying in to. Mathis balked, would be short term because of his age and was let go. I don't see a problem with that now. If the vision turns out to be an hallucination in retrospect it's a problem.
mcnabbulous
Mikey, at the end of the day, I think you will learn how insignificant having the PFF top-rated guard means to a team's success. Frankly, I'm over talking about it. He's a guard. They just don't make that much of a difference and he was being paid more than the position deserves in my (and possibly Chip's) opinion.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 13 2015, 09:48 PM) *
because when Andy got away from his master plan is really when the wheels fell off.


AR had success when he had Dmac in his prime (who was admittedly a lock-step guy with AR)

it went awry as our QB situation devolved from a franchise QB to Mike Vick

kinda like how its been pointed out how great a coach Belicheat became once Brady was the QB

Chip's way of running a team lives and dies solely on the knee of Bradford....the rest is just stuff we talk about
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jun 14 2015, 09:48 AM) *
AR had success when he had Dmac in his prime (who was admittedly a lock-step guy with AR)

it went awry as our QB situation devolved from a franchise QB to Mike Vick

kinda like how its been pointed out how great a coach Belicheat became once Brady was the QB

Chip's way of running a team lives and dies solely on the knee of Bradford....the rest is just stuff we talk about

Now this post I can get behind.
JaxEagle
Chip v. AR

Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from Major League.


JaxEagle
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Jun 15 2015, 11:56 AM) *
Chip v. AR

Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from Major League.

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