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Birdwatcher
My my my, how little football gurus outside the Eagles really know. A little set up here first, I heard him on Misanelli on 97.5, who I can't stand, but while flipping stations heard him say he had Tra coming on, so I listened. Mr. Missanelli was in shock by the end of their talk because Tra said some things that upended the 'my way or highway' scenarios.

First thing he said was that Mathis and Peters were not a good fit together on the left side, since they play opposing styles. Mathis is a jumper, he likes to lurch forward and engage his man, while Peters plays a step back approach to let his man come to him. No wonder Peters was so meh about his departure. Tra also said that Barbre plays the way Peters does and he expects the two to be in better sync during games. It sounds almost like Mathis played his way despite how he was coached, since Tra said they could see on film how it was creating gaps in the line.

Tra thinks Barbre coupled with Peters will be solid this year, but the right side is still a question mark. Given Tra spent time with the coaching staff and is no longer with the team, he has no reason to spout the company line. My point is that everyone acts like they know why things are done by Chip, but things like this remind me we know very little about the real nuts and bolts.



Zero
I heard the tail end of an interview with Todd Herremans on the radio this morning. Pretty interesting stuff, essentially Herremans is supporting the coach who cut him. Listen here, the Herremans interview is later in the clip: Linc ...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 12 2015, 04:00 PM) *
My my my, how little football gurus outside the Eagles really know. A little set up here first, I heard him on Misanelli on 97.5, who I can't stand, but while flipping stations heard him say he had Tra coming on, so I listened. Mr. Missanelli was in shock by the end of their talk because Tra said some things that upended the 'my way or highway' scenarios.

First thing he said was that Mathis and Peters were not a good fit together on the left side, since they play opposing styles. Mathis is a jumper, he likes to lurch forward and engage his man, while Peters plays a step back approach to let his man come to him. No wonder Peters was so meh about his departure. Tra also said that Barbre plays the way Peters does and he expects the two to be in better sync during games. It sounds almost like Mathis played his way despite how he was coached, since Tra said they could see on film how it was creating gaps in the line.

Tra thinks Barbre coupled with Peters will be solid this year, but the right side is still a question mark. Given Tra spent time with the coaching staff and is no longer with the team, he has no reason to spout the company line. My point is that everyone acts like they know why things are done by Chip, but things like this remind me we know very little about the real nuts and bolts.



Tra Thomas, an intern coach on the team says Mathis isn't a good fit.

Meanwhile the team, last year, a full year and some after Chip saw him and Peters play together, decide that he is worthy of MORE than the $5.5M he was contracted for.

It doesn't make sense.

Maybe they had it in their mind to move Mathis to the right after cutting Herremans and put Barbre on the left. That may make sense of the situation.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 12 2015, 07:57 PM) *
Tra Thomas, an intern coach on the team says Mathis isn't a good fit.

Meanwhile the team, last year, a full year and some after Chip saw him and Peters play together, decide that he is worthy of MORE than the $5.5M he was contracted for.

It doesn't make sense.

Maybe they had it in their mind to move Mathis to the right after cutting Herremans and put Barbre on the left. That may make sense of the situation.


Tra said he watched the tapes with the coaches and if you don't believe him watch the tapes yourself, he was fairly emphatic and as a retired OLineman I trust his opinion. Now he was speaking about film meetings he sat in on, calling him an intern coach means nothing when he is relaying what the 'real' coaches discussed. Now it doesn't mean that they thought Mathis was bad, but he did have a playing technique that apparently affected passing downs.

When was this offer made? During or before the season? Had to be, because right after it ended the whole FO blow up happened. So now the season is over and Chip sees we went 6-2 while he was out and 4-4 when he played and we surrendered more sacks with him blocking. I can see the original offer based on 2013 results and the deal pulled after seeing the tapes and determining he was not worth a raise at all.

The way Chip analyzes everything makes this seem more likely than it just being because he missed OTAs.



BirdsWinBaby
If Mathis would have shown up Chip would have paid him millions to "not fit" the system as Tra tries to imply

as was stated that doesnt make sense...sometimes people who know a lot about football and watch tons of game footage, simply lie for an agenda

Tra Thomas wants to coach. he got his first coaching job, lost it, and then badmouthed his previous employer. when you go looking for another NFL coaching job, that sort of thing comes up.

what do you do? well what Tra does is go on the radio and defend Chip's decision to counter his previous comments. when MM tried to revisit Tra's previous comments, Tra refused to say anything about that. MM says Tra told the producer before the interview that he did NOT want to discuss his previous 'guys in the locker room' comment about Chip's racism. that tells you that Tra wants to distance himself from what he said.

Tra kept saying, "watch the film" in order to validate his claims that the Eagles are better off.....im thinking Chip has watched the games, practices and the film and he still wanted Mathis back. until, y'know, he didnt

Tra Thomas can go away now....he spoke his mind one time and thats all it took for him to become just another talking head who will jump through hoops to support any thing a coach does


Phits
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jun 13 2015, 07:20 AM) *
Tra kept saying, "watch the film" in order to validate his claims that the Eagles are better off.....im thinking Chip has watched the games, practices and the film and he still wanted Mathis back. until, y'know, he didnt

If Chip wanted Mathis, he would still be an Eagle.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 13 2015, 10:10 AM) *
If Chip wanted Mathis, he would still be an Eagle.



As I said...Chip wanted Mathis until he didn't. That was this week

But I think Chip has seen a bit of film on Mathis before this week....so Tra's story of watching the film doesn't explain Mathis being wanted here before this week
BirdsWinBaby
dupe
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jun 13 2015, 11:08 AM) *
As I said...Chip wanted Mathis until he didn't. That was this week

But I think Chip has seen a bit of film on Mathis before this week....so Tra's story of watching the film doesn't explain Mathis being wanted here before this week


Mathis said that Chip called him and said, "We are releasing you so you can find want you really want." Here's what Chip knew after OTAs, Mathis didn't want to play for his current contract and he had some time to see how the guys who did want to be here did. I guess the FACT that they did not play as well after Mathis returned to the line last year had nothing to do with it.
nephillymike
Heard Ray Didinger say today that Mathis was a top rated guard and that Barbre played poorly in the preseason games before he got hurt. He also had suspicions that the fact that GB let him go after three years was telling becuase GB is known for finding diamonds on the OL and they keep and develop most of their draft picks.

So where do we stand?

1. Eagles thought enough of him to offer a raise last year prior to injury.
2. His peers thought enough of him to vote him as a PB alternate despite missing half the season injured
3. Pro Football Focus rated him one of the top OL in the NFL
4. Jason Peters saying we should be OK and Barbre was ready to fill in no problem
5. Tra Thomas saying that the styles of Peters and Mathis didn't mesh and that they should be as good with Barbre
6. Todd Herremans saying that Mathis got what he deserved and that the Eagles would probably be a winning team and maybe even a playoff team.
7. Ron Jaworsski saying that Mathis is a top 5 OG in the NFL
8. Didinger saying that he was a top rated guard and Barbre played poorly last preseason.

Is it possible that Herremans is bummed because had they known that Mathis wasn't coming back that he would still be an Eagle?

Mixed opinions.

I think the fact is that if Mathis came to the voluntary OTA's he would be on this team.

Does anyone disagree?
D Rock
Chip has never given the impression he "wanted" Mathis. Bowie offered the xtra money last year. Chip pulled the offer. Chip inherited Evan. He gave him the green light to look for a trade. TWICE.

Show me ONE example of chip saying by word OR action that he "wanted" Mathis.
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 13 2015, 05:54 PM) *
Chip has never given the impression he "wanted" Mathis. Bowie offered the xtra money last year. Chip pulled the offer. Chip inherited Evan. He gave him the green light to look for a trade. TWICE.

Show me ONE example of chip saying by word OR action that he "wanted" Mathis.



So you think that Howie would offer Mathis a raise without Chip's approval?
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2015, 07:20 PM) *
So you think that Howie would offer Mathis a raise without Chip's approval?


I think maybe Howie told his agent that he could give him an extra million per before talking to Chip about it, but I doubt it went farther than...that's not going to be enough. Was it a fully worked extension? There is no evidence of it. If there was a real offer how come there was no news about it back then from the same sources that claim it existed now?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 13 2015, 06:30 PM) *
I think maybe Howie told his agent that he could give him an extra million per before talking to Chip about it, but I doubt it went farther than...that's not going to be enough. Was it a fully worked extension? There is no evidence of it. If there was a real offer how come there was no news about it back then from the same sources that claim it existed now?


Come on BW. Do you really think that Howie didn't tell Chip? Really?

Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2015, 08:19 PM) *
Come on BW. Do you really think that Howie didn't tell Chip? Really?


Even if Chip was aware of it, at the time they had a mountain of cap space, not so much now. Honestly, what happened to Mathis is what usually happens to disgruntled employees in this country, especially when they air it publicly. Chip did what Mathis really wanted, I just don't think he will get the payday he hoped for. I suspect the contract will sound like something bigger than it is, but when boiled down nets him similar but not much more money.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 13 2015, 08:44 PM) *
Even if Chip was aware of it, at the time they had a mountain of cap space, not so much now. Honestly, what happened to Mathis is what usually happens to disgruntled employees in this country, especially when they air it publicly. Chip did what Mathis really wanted, I just don't think he will get the payday he hoped for. I suspect the contract will sound like something bigger than it is, but when boiled down nets him similar but not much more money.



Do you think Mathis will win a wrongful termination lawsuit if he should chose to file one?

PFT reported today that the NFLPA is investigating.

IMO, in order for the Eagles to win a lawsuit, they would need to prove that it is more likely than not that their decision to cut Evan Mathis had nothing to do with him missing the voluntary OTA's. I think that is a tough sell.

Look at the bottom of p 133, the last paragraph of that page. Pretty cut and dry

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/0...t-2011-2020.pdf
Eyrie
All the team needs to do is state that they were impressed by how the new players at G looked in the OTAs and they decided that those guys were now ahead of Mathis, so it made sense to release him rather than keep him as an expensive back up.

You and I know that is BS, but Mathis would have to prove otherwise and I'd be very surprised if Kelly has been stupid enough to leave any evidence.
Zero
Wrongful termination from a multi million $ per year job where he turned down a $ million raise and is free to seek $ multi million employment with another employer. I like Mathis but have zero sympathy for his plight. He made his bed.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 14 2015, 07:26 AM) *
Wrongful termination from a multi million $ per year job where he turned down a $ million raise and is free to seek $ multi million employment with another employer. I like Mathis but have zero sympathy for his plight. He made his bed.



I didn't ask if any were sympathetic to his cause. I was asking do you think he would win.

If he lands a comparable deal elsewhere than there are no damages so it is a dead issue.

If he doesn't, I think he has a real good case per the cut and dry language of the collective bargaining agreement between the billion dollar league and its million dollar employees. The fact that were talking millions vs billions does not make the contract any less binding and probably increases the chance of litigation as the plaintiff is a multi millionaire and has the resources for good legal representation.
Joegrane
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 14 2015, 08:26 AM) *
...I like Mathis but have zero sympathy for his plight.

I agree.
QUOTE
He made his bed.

I just hope that bed doesn't have blue and white sheets in NY.
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2015, 11:20 PM) *
So you think that Howie would offer Mathis a raise without Chip's approval?

Clearly...
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 14 2015, 02:17 AM) *
Do you think Mathis will win a wrongful termination lawsuit if he should chose to file one?

PFT reported today that the NFLPA is investigating.

IMO, in order for the Eagles to win a lawsuit, they would need to prove that it is more likely than not that their decision to cut Evan Mathis had nothing to do with him missing the voluntary OTA's. I think that is a tough sell.

Look at the bottom of p 133, the last paragraph of that page. Pretty cut and dry

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/0...t-2011-2020.pdf

No.

His play dipped last season, he missed significant time to injury, turns 34, has been displeased with his deal for 2 years despite being paid top 5-10 for his position. They cut him to avoid a distraction in the locker room, not because he didn't show for voluntary work.

As for this "voluntary" work nonsense . . . didn't bellicheat just suspend his own player (that won the lombardi for him) for 2 weeks because he missed his plane and was late for "voluntary" work?

Zero
QUOTE
“I know Evan is a two-time Pro Bowler, but he and Jason Peters play a different style of game” Thomas said. “Evan Mathis is a guy who likes to jump set and likes to take everything at the line of scrimmage. Jason Peters is a guy who likes to set back and let his guy come to him. He came up in the same school of thought as Juan (Castillo). He likes to count his steps and everything is timing and about punching the guy (rusher) to take him past the quarterback.”

Thomas says there have been fundamental problems on the left side of the Eagles offensive line because of the different ways the two Pro Bowlers chose to block the pass rushers. Maybe this explains why Peters was supportive of Mathis when asked about his teammate. In fact, Peters said he won’t miss him.

“Evan is taking his guy right on the line and Jason Peters is about three yards behind him. He’s setting back and that puts them on two different levels which creates issues and problems when the rushers run games against them. Lot of times if you saw the film, you saw issues. They were on different levels.”

Thomas believes there will be noticeable improvement with the insertion of Barbre into the lineup.
“When you bring in Allen Barbre on that left side, Big Al and Jason. They kind of move the same. I think you will see a better rapport and better chemistry. These two will play better together. Just because Allen sets more at a 45 degree angle and he punches his guy.”
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