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D Rock
from last season, 2014.

He played in 9 games.

When Mathis played, we averaged 127 rush yards per game. When he did not play, we averaged 122 rush yards per game. Not much difference.

In pass-pro, we gave up a sack on 6.9% of pass plays when Mathis played, and 2.8% of pass plays when Mathis did not. I realize these numbers fail to account for quarterbacks holding the ball too long, or blitz numbers or any other variables. But on the surface, it would seem we were no better with Mathis playing than we were without him.

mcnabbulous
I have no problem beating this dead horse...

Offensive line is all about your weakest link. Assuming you have 5 starting caliber players along the line, you're going to be just fine. You don't need "stars." Sure, having great guys is nice, but it doesn't make that much of a difference.

At lower levels of football, the talent level are so dramatically mixed that offensive line is talent is more important. It's why there is this win from the inside out mentality across football.

In the NFL, the starting caliber guys are largely on the same level, so a bad offensive line can certainly lose you games...but a good one likely won't win you games.
Eyrie
My concern is not so much about Mathis the individual, but the general attitude towards the OL.

Mcnabbulous makes a fair point about the weakest link, so it would make sense to put resources into the OL to minimise that risk. A few undrafted rookie FAs is an afterthought when we haven't drafted or signed anyone for two years despite the fact that three of our starters (Peters, Mathis, Herremans) were ageing and replacements should have been lined up.

Until proven otherwise, we have two weakest links and that means a bad OL which will cost us games this season.
mcnabbulous
Until proven otherwise, those guys are just fine.

Glass half full, my friend.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 13 2015, 01:55 PM) *
Until proven otherwise, those guys are just fine.

Glass half full, my friend.

Let's I hope I'm just a quick drinker then ... cheers.gif
nephillymike
Take the average number of missed games due to injury for Eagles OL over the past few years, apply it to this year and then tell me how good our OL is.

And another thing.

If Mathis was so bad and overpriced, the Eagles would have known his departure was imminent and would have gotten OL in the draft, trade or FA.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2015, 04:53 PM) *
Take the average number of missed games due to injury for Eagles OL over the past few years, apply it to this year and then tell me how good our OL is.

And another thing.

If Mathis was so bad and overpriced, the Eagles would have known his departure was imminent and would have gotten OL in the draft, trade or FA.

They know the roster better than you. They obviously like Barbre, Tobin and Gardner.

No one is saying Mathis was bad. Just not as irreplaceable as our fans are making out.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 13 2015, 06:01 PM) *
They know the roster better than you. They obviously like Barbre, Tobin and Gardner.

No one is saying Mathis was bad. Just not as irreplaceable as our fans are making out.

That's generally the case with most roster spots.
Joegrane
Speaking of replacements A Barbre had nice things to say about Mathis. Few others have said anything positive about him.
QUOTE
"He was consistent, just a consistent player," Barbre said. "That's what got him to the accolades he got. I spoke with him, I told him good luck wherever he goes. I still consider him a friend. He's a good guy. It's just part of the business."

http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadel...ace-evan-mathis
Zero
Baldy had a reasonable thought that he expressed on 97.5 yesterday morning. Chip is new at the GM game and even though he may be fine at evaluating talent and putting together a roster, dealing with an agent like Rosenhaus has to be challenging and exasperating. Maybe he just got tired of Rosenhaus' constant picking and prodding, and after the agent made a comment about release just threw up his arms and said "fuck it, he's not THAT important to the team" and released him. As a former LG in the NFL Baldy said that it's not a position to get all worked up over. It's more about how to play in harmony with the LT and the C. T and C are the spots to worry about, not G.

Baldy went on to say that Kelly is an amazing play caller and a very good coach. He also said that he thinks Bradford could be the smartest QB in the NFL. He said it's amazing how fast the guy reads defenses which is one of the big reasons he was drafted #1. In this offense he'll have guys open, all he needs to do is deliver the ball. He thinks the Eagles will be fine as long as Bradford stays healthy.
Zero
Something I don't understand completely. First, I'm not happy Mathis isn't an Eagle, wish he were still here and wish him well. But, normally a player who's been with 4 teams in 10 years either is a marginal player or has some issues. He was almost an after thought when he came to Philadelphia but has obviously flourished here. I suspect the reason is mostly the system(s) and the coaching but maybe he's somewhat of a late bloomer too. Assuming all of that, isn't it completely possible that Barbre or some other unknown guard that 'sucks' could step in and do what needs to be done?

As the #1 rated guard in 2011 - 2013 why did three teams let him go? Guards aren't that important, the above or a combination?
QUOTE
Year, Team, Played, Start
2014 Philadelphia Eagles 9 9
2013 Philadelphia Eagles 16 16
2012 Philadelphia Eagles 16 16
2011 Philadelphia Eagles 15 15
2010 Cincinnati Bengals 12 0
2009 Cincinnati Bengals 13 7
2008 Cincinnati Bengals 1 0
2008 Miami Dolphins 7 0
2007 Carolina Panthers 1 0
2006 Carolina Panthers 15 15
2005 Carolina Panthers 9 0
Zero
And this from NJ.com:
QUOTE
Mathis, who was scheduled to earn $5.5 million this year and $6 million next year, was looking for a $3 million raise to $8.5 million this year, someone familiar with the talks told NJ Advance Media. Not authorized to speak publicly on the negotiations, that person requested anonymity.
So, is this a FO leak meant to vindicate another personnel failure or did Mathis seriously overplay his hand?
mcnabbulous
Apparently Baldy is my spirit animal.

Mathis overplayed his hand (and also handpicked the biggest asshole agent in sports). You're judged by the company you keep.
Joegrane
Well said.
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 18 2015, 11:05 AM) *
Apparently Baldy is my spirit animal.

Mathis overplayed his hand (and also handpicked the biggest asshole agent in sports). You're judged by the company you keep.

Joegrane
I like Baldy. I hope he is right. If we get a repeat of the porous O Line that N Foles worked with, Bradford is not likely to survive as long a Foles did.

QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 18 2015, 07:44 AM) *
... As a former LG in the NFL Baldy said that it's not a position to get all worked up over. It's more about how to play in harmony with the LT and the C. T and C are the spots to worry about, not G.

Baldy went on to say that Kelly is an amazing play caller and a very good coach. He also said that he thinks Bradford could be the smartest QB in the NFL. He said it's amazing how fast the guy reads defenses which is one of the big reasons he was drafted #1. In this offense he'll have guys open, all he needs to do is deliver the ball. He thinks the Eagles will be fine as long as Bradford stays healthy.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 18 2015, 12:39 PM) *
I like Baldy. I hope he is right. If we get a repeat of the porous O Line that N Foles worked with, Bradford is not likely to survive as long a Foles did.

It wasn't as bad as you think. Foles' inability to make quick, decisive decisions contributed to his own problems. Bradford won't have those same issues.
D Rock
Yup. You can't hold the ball in the nfl. If you do, you'll look like Nick Foles 2014.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 18 2015, 07:09 AM) *
Something I don't understand completely. First, I'm not happy Mathis isn't an Eagle, wish he were still here and wish him well. But, normally a player who's been with 4 teams in 10 years either is a marginal player or has some issues. He was almost an after thought when he came to Philadelphia but has obviously flourished here. I suspect the reason is mostly the system(s) and the coaching but maybe he's somewhat of a late bloomer too. Assuming all of that, isn't it completely possible that Barbre or some other unknown guard that 'sucks' could step in and do what needs to be done?

As the #1 rated guard in 2011 - 2013 why did three teams let him go? Guards aren't that important, the above or a combination?



And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and NOBODY drafted Romo.

IMO, you can't say a guy did x,y and z before he got here, and then poo poo his performance when he shined in two different offenses while here. It isn't even like he just played well for Chip. He played real well for Chip and Andy. It isn't like he was a one year wonder here, he had one very good year and three PB level years here.

It is possible that a OG doesn't matter and like Baldy said and Nabby says they ain't worth high pay. Maybe, But I know from my own eyes that the way Barbre played last preseason and the way the backups played last year, those OG's meant a whole lot to our protection and running efficiency. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe last year was the outlier when it did manifest itself in the effectiveness of the offense. Maybe Barbre is really better than his 8 starts in 7 seasons track record indicate, and maybe despite being unable to unseat Heremans and Mathis his two years here, maybe he really is better than those two. Sure that's using some of his past with other teams but also usign his status with us. Maybe they will use Mathis $6.5M of cap room to make us better this year in other areas more important to our success.

We could be fine. But to be fine, Barbre and whoever gets the other OG spot plus the first guy off the bench will need to be worlds better than what I've seen last year from those guys. With the lack of drafted talent and FA's we signed at OL these last two years,it isnt like these guys are being pressed for the position. I'd feel better that the cream would rise to the top if we has some cream to work with.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 18 2015, 12:46 PM) *
It wasn't as bad as you think. Foles' inability to make quick, decisive decisions contributed to his own problems. Bradford won't have those same issues.



I hope Bradford does really well here and I think there's a decent chance that he does that if he possesses those skills you mention. But my connection from STL, who is as big of Rams fan as I am an Eagles fan says he was a gun shy, bad form scared inaccurate QB while at STL and he was thrilled that they moved on.

If Foles was as bad as most say and he was able to get to the third highest NFL QB rating ever in one year with us and finished with the highest career passer rating of any Eagles QB, then the sky is truly the limit for someone with even decent QB skills if Bradford has those.
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