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mcnabbulous
So long. Bummer. He was one of my favorite birds. But he's a guard that thinks he is more valuable than he really is.
mcnabbulous
In case you need actual proof:

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/609085133153529857
mcnabbulous
Dupe
koolaidluke
This in insanity
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Jun 11 2015, 03:08 PM) *
This in insanity

Guards are a dime a dozen. I like the guy, but it's not worth losing sleep over. Barbre will be a fine replacement this year and filling the spot long-term won't be a problem.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 04:14 PM) *
Guards are a dime a dozen. I like the guy, but it's not worth losing sleep over. Barbre will be a fine replacement this year and filling the spot long-term won't be a problem.


It will be Tobin and Gardner, not Babre. I really don't care for Babre.

I think Tobin has a lot of potential. Agree that losing Mathis isn't a big deal but it just seems unnecessary.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Jun 11 2015, 03:22 PM) *
It will be Tobin and Gardner, not Babre. I really don't care for Babre.

I think Tobin has a lot of potential. Agree that losing Mathis isn't a big deal but it just seems unnecessary.

I think Barbre will be at LG and Tobin at RG. It's probably unnecessary, but it's also not surprising if you've paid any attention to Chip the past 2 years. Frankly, I'm surprised he lasted beyond draft weekend.

Joegrane
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 04:00 PM) *
So long. Bummer. He was one of my favorite birds. But he's a guard that thinks he is more valuable than he really is.

At least it is early in training camp. The remaining O Linemen will have time to gel together.

They can say what they like. You don't just replace a Pro Bowl caliber player. Now the Birds have to draft two O Linemen fairly high next year or look for an upgrade in free agency.

I wonder if they will look to trade for one. They now have cap space.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 11 2015, 04:01 PM) *
They can say what they like. You don't just replace a Pro Bowl caliber player.

Remember who the Patriots replaced Logan Mankins with after they traded him?
Eyrie
NFL.com has the story but there's nothing on Pravda or the official Twitter feed yet. Poor Spadaro will be tearing his hair out trying to find a way to spin this one.

It's a clear sign that relations had broken down irretrievably. Presumably Mathis was pissed at the old offer having disappeared, although that was his own fault for not signing it, and announced he won't be at the mandatory camp.

And it undoubtedly weakens our OL as we now need to find two good Gs just to fill the holes, let alone attempt to improve. Kelly's failure to address the position in either FA or the draft is inexcusable.
Joegrane
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 05:19 PM) *
Remember who the Patriots replaced Logan Mankins with after they traded him?

Sorry, I don't follow the Pats that closely. I bet they had a plan and did not get rid of their other veteran Guard the same year.

This is biting Chip in the butt. I'm not saying that Chip necessarily was wrong. It is unfortunate that they did not get the Guard they wanted in the 4th round and now this blew up. Did he handle the situation poorly or is Mathis a head case or both?
JeeQ
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Jun 11 2015, 01:08 PM) *
This in insanity


Captain Chip-saneo Shows No Mercy
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 11 2015, 07:25 PM) *
Sorry, I don't follow the Pats that closely. I bet they had a plan and did not get rid of their other veteran Guard the same year.

This is biting Chip in the butt. I'm not saying that Chip necessarily was wrong. It is unfortunate that they did not get the Guard they wanted in the 4th round and now this blew up. Did he handle the situation poorly or is Mathis a head case or both?

The answer is: guards are replaceable.

I'm sure Chip has a plan too.
SAM I Am
It's looking as if what was once the strongest area on the team for a few years is now on the verge of becoming one of our areas of most need. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a real bad feeling about the kind of year Jason Peters is going to have.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 03:14 PM) *
Guards are a dime a dozen. I like the guy, but it's not worth losing sleep over. Barbre will be a fine replacement this year and filling the spot long-term won't be a problem.


Yep you are right.

We have a dozen backup OL and they aren't worth a dime!!
mcnabbulous
Why is everyone clamoring to defend an interior OL who didn't want to play here. Outside of the obvious fact that most every NFL fans dramatically overrates the importance of guards.

The shit Philly fans do and don't give their athletes shit about is puzzling. We had a lifelong, mvp winning shortstop who fans hated and a fly-by-night OG who did everything to get out of town who people are dying to go to bat for.

He didn't want to be here! Fuck him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 08:46 PM) *
Why is everyone clamoring to defend an interior OL who didn't want to play here. Outside of the obvious fact that most every NFL fans dramatically overrates the importance of guards.

The shit Philly fans do and don't give their athletes shit about is puzzling. We had a lifelong, mvp winning shortstop who fans hated and a fly-by-night OG who did everything to get out of town who people are dying to go to bat for.

He didn't want to be here! Fuck him.



C'mon Nabby, you are a smart man.

Riddle me this Batman.

Why did Chip cut Mathis now as opposed to next week, or four weeks from now?

Anyone else can join in if they so feel inclined.

and about Rollins. He is the best SS all time for the Phils and probably a top 15 Phillie of all-time and has an outside chance for the HOF. Not my favorite player for his lack of hustle, but he is bona fide high echelon Phillie. The difference being, when JRol got traded, him leaving was making a solidly below average team, a little more below average. IMO, losing Mathis, GIVEN THE PLAY OF THE BACKUPS LAST YEAR AND OUR NON EXISTENT OL DRAFT CLASS OF THE LAST TWO YEARS, makes an 11-5 top 8 NFL team to a 9-7 non playoff team. Bigger impact, higher stakes.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 11 2015, 09:06 PM) *
C'mon Nabby, you are a smart man.

Riddle me this Batman.

Why did Chip cut Mathis now as opposed to next week, or four weeks from now?

Anyone else can join in if they so feel inclined.

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

QUOTE
and about Rollins. He is the best SS all time for the Phils and probably a top 15 Phillie of all-time and has an outside chance for the HOF. Not my favorite player for his lack of hustle, but he is bona fide high echelon Phillie.

Do you know how a middle infielder can have 14 very productive seasons at the most physically demanding position in the game? By not worrying about legging out every routine grounder.

I love Chase as much as anyone, but I suspect if he had taken a few more plays off, his peak would have been longer. I realize it wasn't in his nature, but it's reality. Jimmy is an all-time great athlete in this town and should be beloved.

QUOTE
The difference being, when JRol got traded, him leaving was making a solidly below average team, a little more below average. IMO, losing Mathis, GIVEN THE PLAY OF THE BACKUPS LAST YEAR AND OUR NON EXISTENT OL DRAFT CLASS OF THE LAST TWO YEARS, makes an 11-5 top 8 NFL team to a 9-7 non playoff team. Bigger impact, higher stakes.

We were 5-4 with him last year and 5-2 without. He's not a difference maker. Barbre is back this year. We won't miss him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 09:25 PM) *
I'm not sure where you are going with this.


Do you know how a middle infielder can have 14 very productive seasons at the most physically demanding position in the game? By not worrying about legging out every routine grounder.

I love Chase as much as anyone, but I suspect if he had taken a few more plays off, his peak would have been longer. I realize it wasn't in his nature, but it's reality. Jimmy is an all-time great athlete in this town and should be beloved.


We were 5-4 with him last year and 5-2 without. He's not a difference maker. Barbre is back this year. We won't miss him.



Think about it.

If you are Chip, why do you cut him now, as opposed to next week or four weeks from now?

What does Chip get to keep if he cuts him now and what does he risk giving up should he cut him later?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 11 2015, 09:36 PM) *
Think about it.

If you are Chip, why do you cut him now, as opposed to next week or four weeks from now?

What does Chip get to keep if he cuts him now and what does he risk giving up should he cut him later?

I'm still not sure what you have in mind.

From my perspective, Mathis was gone. Chip has tried to find a suitor for a trade for two offseasons. It wasn't happening. He wasn't gonna be on our roster come September and he wasn't getting traded. Time to move on.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 11 2015, 09:46 PM) *
I'm still not sure what you have in mind.

From my perspective, Mathis was gone. Chip has tried to find a suitor for a trade for two offseasons. It wasn't happening. He wasn't gonna be on our roster come September and he wasn't getting traded. Time to move on.



What does Chip want more than anything else?

Control and players who believe in what and why he does things.

Right now, prior to being cut, after the less than supporting comments of his teammates, Chip has the upper hand in public and team opinion of the situation.

Come Tuesday, when Mathis reports to camp and he announces to the world that just like it was the Eagles legal right to not improve his deal, he exercised his legal right, as defined by the CBA, to not attend voluntary practices. He then announces that he loves the Eagles, loves his teammates, loves the City of Philadelphia and will work extremely hard and can't wait to help this team win the first ever Super Bowl in Philadelphia.

With that statement, Chip loses the upper hand and loses support of his locker room if he would have chosen to cut him after that time.

He couldn't let that be a possibility.

If Chip the control freak thought Mathis would come in and be a distraction, his hand would have improved and cutting him after seeing this would make it all the more justified.

He couldn't take that chance. That is why Mathis was cut today.
mcnabbulous
All of that love would have been bullshit. His actions have spoken. I'm not sure if you do the Twitter thing, but Mathis is one of the most beloved Philly athletes I can remember.

He ruined that goodwill. He's not much different from TO in that regard.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 11 2015, 10:56 PM) *
If Chip the control freak thought Mathis would come in and be a distraction, his hand would have improved and cutting him after seeing this would make it all the more justified.

To me, "control freak" is a derogatory descriptor. Kelly, like any leader, needs to maintain control. "Nutz" Mathis was challenging that and potentially disrupting a unity that Kelly is trying to construct with players.

The "less than supportive comments" from players, especially Peters tells me that they think Mathis went too far. Players are normally silent or supportive of other players' salary positions. That a player like Peters was so dismissive of the Pro Bowl player he had worked along side of for a few years seems strange. Sounds to me like there were things going on, things being said away from the press that wasn't good for team unity.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 12 2015, 05:35 AM) *
To me, "control freak" is a derogatory descriptor. Kelly, like any leader, needs to maintain control. "Nutz" Mathis was challenging that and potentially disrupting a unity that Kelly is trying to construct with players.

The "less than supportive comments" from players, especially Peters tells me that they think Mathis went too far. Players are normally silent or supportive of other players' salary positions. That a player like Peters was so dismissive of the Pro Bowl player he had worked along side of for a few years seems strange. Sounds to me like there were things going on, things being said away from the press that wasn't good for team unity.



Do you agree with my reasons for the timing of it?
Zero
Sure, they didn't want him infecting other players. On the plus side for Mathis, it also gives him a great opportunity to hook on with another team, learn the system and compete during TC.
mcnabbulous
Tra Thomas chimes in...

"I think that these two (Barbre and Peters) will play better together."

"There were already issues. Go back and look at the film. He creates a problem when it comes to protection."

"You know exactly what you are going to get out of Barbre. He is exactly what you want out of a guard."

"You guys can go back and watch the film. You can look and see where the issues are when it comes to protection."

Via @975TheFanatic on Twitter

Don't forget that these comments come on the heels of Chip firing Thomas and Thomas more or less implying Chip had "a hint of racism" in the locker room. If there was any reason to blast him, I'm sure he would have.

D Rock
I just posted in a new thread . . .

We gave up sacks on 6.8% of pass plays where Mathis played, and only 2.9% of pass plays in the 9 games he missed.

On the rush side, we averaged 127 yards per game with him, and 122 yards per game without him. So it would seem he didn't really help the rush game much, while perhaps hurting us in pass-pro.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 12 2015, 03:03 PM) *
Tra Thomas chimes in...

"I think that these two (Barbre and Peters) will play better together."

"There were already issues. Go back and look at the film. He creates a problem when it comes to protection."

"You know exactly what you are going to get out of Barbre. He is exactly what you want out of a guard."

"You guys can go back and watch the film. You can look and see where the issues are when it comes to protection."

Via @975TheFanatic on Twitter

Don't forget that these comments come on the heels of Chip firing Thomas and Thomas more or less implying Chip had "a hint of racism" in the locker room. If there was any reason to blast him, I'm sure he would have.



That is interesting that Tra would say that. He had an axe to grind with Chip so it isn't like he would be a Chipbot. Maybe Mathis disrespected Tra when he was a coach. Maybe Mathis had a lot to say about Tra's bogus claim of racism about him not being re-hired after two years of a minority internship.

You have Pro football focus rating Mathis extremely high based on every play but Tra saying he isn't good.

If Barbre is so good, wouldn't he have started ahead of Herremans and Mathis or started ahead of SOMEONE in his NFL career?

He can criticize Mathis, but his praise of Barbre seems odd.

Why would the team offer him a raise?? It doesn't make sense.
mcnabbulous
Barbre started the first game of the year in replace of Johnson. He subsequently went on IR. The fact that they felt comfortable with him playing OT instead of Herremans, who had experience out there, may tell you something.

They obviously like Barbre
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