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Zero
I'm surprised at the differences. Murray is 27 and supposedly runs a 4.41 while Shady is 26 and supposedly runs a 4.45.
nephillymike
I wonder on a % basis how these stats would look over a two year period?

I think that Murray is a slight upgrade in this system in the long run vs, McCoy.

I think we will need to protect Murray from having too many carries this year because I think that the stat of RB's productivity drops after huge years is very real.

I think when discussing the two, we need to acknowledge that on one hand, getting rid of Shady got us Alonzo.

On the other hand, the football populace can't be stupid enough to believe that Murray was cheaper. He was cheaper because of the cap charge we chose for him to have this year. We could have easily restructured Shady and made his cap hit just as small for this year if we wanted to. We also have to be smart enough to realize that all guaranteed money hits the cap, and the enormous amount of guaranteed money we gave to Murray will eat up a lot of cap in the future and limit what we can do. Shady, while expensive on this year's cap, did not cost us anywhere near as much going forward.

Again, overall, I'm OK with it and do feel Murray, if not already spent, is the better system fit. Also wasn't a fan of Shady the person and I can see that his lack of character could have been an issue with the team.
Zero
I think the RB situation improved considerably for the Eagles with adding both Murray and Mathews to Sproles. I liked Polk and think he would have been nice paired with Murray but think Mathews is an upgrade. Murray and Mathews will spell each other and be a tiring presence for opposing defenses.
nephillymike
When you look at distribution of snaps, we will need to run the ball 60% of the time to give these guys enough touches. It will be tough to keep them happy.

You know me, I would be fine with that. Run the damn ball and run it again!!

But the popular opinion is that you need to pass the ball well to win in this league.

I welcome the change to the paradigm.

BirdsWinBaby
all this talk about Bradford's knees and DeMarco Murray escapes notice??

Murray played 16 NFL games last year FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER!!

even last year he finished the season hurt

"the stat of RB's productivity drops after huge years is very real."....'zactly

you have a RB who gets hurt EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR, after a year of getting used and abused by his previous team, and Chip wants to make him the focal point, the linchpin(sic) of our offense led by BradChez? Chip is gonna hide Bradford's knees behind a running game led by Murray? who cant stay healthy?

it might work...nobody with a brain can be sure as hell positive. my problem is that Chip (and too many fans) seem to be completely sold it will work wonders

and lastly....i dont like Shady. he has always been an awesome RB, and a crappy human being. even so...

put Shady behind that Cowboys OL last year and he would matched and damn near doubled Murray's numbers

where would Murray have been with the patchwork BS that Shady had here?...

be careful what you wish for
mcnabbulous
"damn near doubled Murray's numbers"

3690 yards, 26 TD's?
Joegrane
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ May 25 2015, 09:34 PM) *
...
Murray played 16 NFL games last year FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER!!
even last year he finished the season hurt
...
put Shady behind that Cowboys OL last year and he would matched and damn near doubled Murray's numbers
...


Real good points.

Bad blood with Chip likely involved, maybe because of all the dancing behind the line.

If the O Line holds up, lots of other things will likely be okay, but if that line falters, it will likely get ugly in many ways.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 25 2015, 09:49 PM) *
"damn near doubled Murray's numbers"

3690 yards, 26 TD's?



bit of hyperbole there
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ May 26 2015, 05:36 AM) *
bit of hyperbole there

I get that. I just think you're severely overrating that Dallas OL. Murray is a fantastic talent.

I didn't love the signing, but I don't know why anyone would think he would be worse off than Shady last year. Shady was not good, no matter how you slice it.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 26 2015, 10:45 AM) *
I get that. I just think you're severely overrating that Dallas OL. Murray is a fantastic talent.

I didn't love the signing, but I don't know why anyone would think he would be worse off than Shady last year. Shady was not good, no matter how you slice it.


Perhaps it will work as brilliantly as planned

As for why we might be worse off?

1) the year after a lot of carries

2) it's a red flag to me when a guy has a career year, plays every game when he never has before.... in a contract year. We have seen guys bust their asses before to get paid, then cash the check and and go back to just ok

3) Chip wants that downhill style running. Get the 3-4yds if that's all that is there. Don't dance around looking for a home run. I agree. But that aging OL better make holes for Murray because he isn't capable of making defenders miss.

It's nice to assume that with Murray here the runs will be 3yds....3yds.....3yds.....25yds. But if it's 1yd.....3yds....1yd because Murray can't compensate for mediocre OL play, you will miss Shady a lot

I'm not predicting anything....just saying that the possibility for both success and failure exists, and that's outside of Murray's injury history. From what I hear on the radio, fans believe the only two possibilities for Murray this year are insanely successful year of 2000yds+ or just a mildly successful 1500yds
mcnabbulous
The main piece you fail to acknowledge is that Shady is coming off of two straight years with heavy carries.

I also expect Mathews to give Murray lots of relief. Overall, I expect fewer negative plays, fewer third and longs, more first downs, more plays, more scores, and more wins.
Zero
Just curious, why is Mathews being left out of this conversation?
Phits
60 (murray) 30 (mathews) 10 (sproles) ... My expected (%) amount of distribution between our 3 headed monster.

I don't expect any to be a workhorse or any extreme workload.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ May 26 2015, 12:36 PM) *
60 (murray) 30 (mathews) 10 (sproles) ... My expected (%) amount of distribution between our 3 headed monster.

I don't expect any to be a workhorse or any extreme workload.

Yep. The point is that Murray apparently isn't being relied on to carry the load. For me, this shows that Kelly is aware of his carries last year as well as his injury history. Unless the Kendricks rumors prove to have legs, this is a similar situation to ILB yet there are some who seem to be getting frizzy about it with RB. Seems like a logical gamble to me, both spots.
Dreagon
Okay, a few comments...

1. While I think Murray benefitted from our O-line (especially after we got Zack Martin lined up next to Frederick), he was an effective runner before then. His best game ever came on his first start, (against the Rams) before Fredericks, Martin and Leary were even on the team. His problem was staying healthy. The line helped with that this year due to him making a lot more yardage before first contact.

2. Murray does the exact opposite of making defenders miss. I have watched him deliberately change course and plow into a defender in the open field. Oddly enough, he actually does that more than he used to. I think he has a hard on for steamrolling cornerbacks and safeties. You're going to want to have a change of pace back from time to time. Sproles would probably be excellent in this role...especially as a third down back.

3. You're number two back is now of critical importance, because I guarantee your going to be seeing him at some point this year...even if it's only for a game or two.

4. He can block. Bradford will probably like that aspect of his game.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ May 26 2015, 05:35 PM) *
Just curious, why is Mathews being left out of this conversation?

I don't know, and it's worth remembering that we still completed the Mathews signing after we'd got Murray.

QUOTE (Dreagon @ May 26 2015, 06:59 PM) *
3. You're number two back is now of critical importance, because I guarantee your going to be seeing him at some point this year...even if it's only for a game or two.

And there is always someone smart enough to explain why we did that.

I like our one-two punch, with Sproles to change things.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 26 2015, 11:36 AM) *
60 (murray) 30 (mathews) 10 (sproles) ... My expected (%) amount of distribution between our 3 headed monster.

I don't expect any to be a workhorse or any extreme workload.



do that and you have a real problem with Sproles. He was underutilized last year. Even Chip admitted that.

I'm thinking 55%, 25% 20%. And you know what? I think Sproles will have the highest yards per carry of the three with that distribution.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 26 2015, 09:09 PM) *
do that and you have a real problem with Sproles. He was underutilized last year. Even Chip admitted that.

I'm thinking 55%, 25% 20%. And you know what? I think Sproles will have the highest yards per carry of the three with that distribution.

I'm betting that those percentages will be dependent on health and performance. I don't think any of them are guaranteed anything and I think they know that.
BirdsWinBaby
it doesn't make sense to pay a guy $8m a year to take half the snaps. It wouldn't surprise me tho
Zero
Another point to ponder:
QUOTE
As good as LeSean McCoy is, his red zone numbers aren't great. Last year, he scored four times on 56 attempts for a conversion rate of seven percent. Even during his career year in 2013, he averaged just 1.7 yards per carry inside the 20 and had a 13 percent conversion rate.

Murray, meanwhile, finished first in yards gained (148) and tied for first in touchdowns (12) in the red zone last year for a rate of 21.4 percent. Proving that it was more than just a freak year behind a standout offensive line, Murray rushed for 135 yards and nine TDs (23 percent rate) from inside the 20 the season prior.
Source ...
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ May 27 2015, 09:56 AM) *
Another point to ponder:
Source ...


It would make sense that Murray would be better in the red zone given his style of running vs Shady

It's also worth noting that when faced with a great OL, Romo, Bryant, and Witten teams can't load the box

When faced with Sanchez, Maclin, Matthews and Cooper? Yea you scheme to stop the RB

the only way to find out how much of a factor OL/skill players had on Murray's success is to put him on the Eagles....so we will see
Zero
The other thing we will see is how good the Dallas OL is. How much was Murray and how much the OL? I don't mean to diss them. I know Denver used to have plug and play RBs but that line was also known for their dirty play and Elway had the arm and the receivers to make defenses pay if they stacked the run.
GroundedBird
Some quick thoughts...

Just like mentioned above by Zero, I'd heard that the Dallas running game suffered when Murray wasn't in last year. Wondering how much of a drop off there was.

IMHO, this offense is predicated on making positive yards quickly. Hence the bigger need for a downhill runner. That's the reason we have Murray over Shady.

Since this offense has so many plays, Murray will need a breather (Shady needed it), so Matthews will get his chance to run. I think this is an amazing strategy: tire the defense even quicker.

Also, I think the goal of the defense is still to turn the ball over to the offense.

I think this will be fun if it works out.
lons
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ May 28 2015, 11:07 AM) *
Some quick thoughts...

Just like mentioned above by Zero, I'd heard that the Dallas running game suffered when Murray wasn't in last year. Wondering how much of a drop off there was.


He was only out for breathers AFAICR and Randal did well in spot duty, actually had a higher ypc, but I'm sure if he was the main focus back that would go down a lot, that's what happened when Felix was made the work horse. The issue was that when Romo was out in that Skins game, Murray was ineffective. Also of note was Murray fumbled an insane amount last year. It was infuriating seeing that fumble against the Packers in the playoffs. That was a sure TD and had he gotten that, That throw to Dez doesn't have Dez reaching and it's possibly a catch. Murray is a great motivator and a great team player, but until last year it was a running bet who was gonna go down first, him or Lee. Two of the most talented, but injury prone players I've seen in my LIFE! It was great seeing him get paid, I wish we'd have kept him, if only because I think we stuck by him all those years paying him when he kept getting injured and he Jets as soon as he sees the cash, oh well.. that's business.

You guys will enjoy him, if he stays healthy I'm sure he will be a game changer. And I'm sure we will miss him as the year goes on and DMC breaks down and Randal gets arrested for stealing underwear or some other none sense. Oh well, we needed the cash for the defense I guess.
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