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nephillymike
My hope coming into this game was for GB to put up 27 and see if the kid can top that.

We'll see.
nephillymike
Call answered.

The kid came thru big time.

Pay him his money!!
https://www.google.com/search?q=google+imag...52F%3B552%3B415
Phits
Wow. What a finish.
BirdsWinBaby
seattle has a great defense....mediocre QB play doesnt win that game for them tho

i dont think we can get up in the draft to get either of the QBs this year.....but until we have a franchise QB, drafting defense wont matter
Dreagon
I don't think it's lost on anybody that the final four teams in the playoff series all have franchise QBs. It's possible to go the distance without one, but it's damn rare...and the same team usually never even sniffs the Super Bowl again.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jan 18 2015, 06:50 PM) *
I don't think it's lost on anybody that the final four teams in the playoff series all have franchise QBs. It's possible to go the distance without one, but it's damn rare...and the same team usually never even sniffs the Super Bowl again.


It's rare these days for SB winning teams to even make the playoffs the following year. How long has it been before this year?
Dreagon
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 18 2015, 05:59 PM) *
It's rare these days for SB winning teams to even make the playoffs the following year. How long has it been before this year?


New England Patriots 2004 and 2005

edit: Oops, that's repeating super bowl appearances. I'm pretty sure the Saints made the playoffs in 2011 after their Super Bowl win, but I can's remember if they are the last to do it.

edit#2: What am I thinking? The Ravens made it to the playoffs this year (and lost to the Pats) after winning the Super Bowl last year.
Zero
Seattle had no business winning that game. GB gave it away in the last 4 minutes with obscenely conservative offense and nonchalant defense. I don't really care who won, but IMO it wasn't Wilson putting his team on his back.

And if I lose that argument then let's not forget that he was the 75th player taken in the draft ... 3rd round. I'm not comparing him to Foles but the jury is still out on Nick. If Foles isn't the guy, then maybe there's someone in the second, third or fourth round that will be the guy.

First, the Eagles need a solid personnel man.

BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 18 2015, 07:37 PM) *
I'm not comparing him to Foles but the jury is still out on Nick.



its not....heading into year 4
JeeQ
Much like in the Oregon Vs Ohio State game... one team turned the ball over 4+ times going against the best QB in the league... and defense still won the game

Defense = Championships

Until we get one we're doomed. All this elite/franchise QB talk yet every elite/franchise QB keeps getting shut down by solid defense. When you give up 15 Points in 45 seconds it doesn't matter who your QB is
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jan 18 2015, 07:55 PM) *
All this elite/franchise QB talk yet every elite/franchise QB keeps getting shut down by solid defense.



that winning TD pass was perfectly covered....a great pass/catch beats great coverage...been true for decades

that is the same defense that made Wilson look like a bum in the first half. same good defense against better QB play and you get a different result
JeeQ
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jan 18 2015, 05:07 PM) *
that winning TD pass was perfectly covered....a great pass/catch beats great coverage...been true for decades

that is the same defense that made Wilson look like a bum in the first half. same good defense against better QB play and you get a different result


A valid point... but at the same time the best QB in the league had a 3 possession lead going into the 3rd QTR and still ended up losing the game... Russell Wilson wouldn't even be in a position to make a game winning pass if the defense doesn't shut down Aaron Rodgers completely in the second half... one TD could've put the game away

Not to mention Wilson doesn't get away with a 4 interception game in any way, shape, or form unless you have an absolutely incredible defense
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 18 2015, 07:37 PM) *
it wasn't Wilson putting his team on his back.

You're not giving the kid enough credit. He certainly put the team on his back. After having an awful 3 1/2 quarters he did what you (should) expect out of your franchise QB's and played outstanding to come from behind and get the win.

It wasn't Wilson alone. The D should get most of the credit. Lynch should get whatever is left over.
Phits
QUOTE
All this elite/franchise QB talk yet every elite/franchise QB keeps getting shut down by solid defense.

Who is the last SB champion to not have an "elite" franchise QB?

You need a proper balance. In my opinion it starts at the QB position and is built out from there.

QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jan 18 2015, 08:15 PM) *
A valid point... but at the same time the best QB in the league had a 3 possession lead going into the 3rd QTR and still ended up losing the game... Russell Wilson wouldn't even be in a position to make a game winning pass if the defense doesn't shut down Aaron Rodgers completely in the second half... one TD could've put the game away

Not to mention Wilson doesn't get away with a 4 interception game in any way, shape, or form unless you have an absolutely incredible defense

A healthy Rodgers would have been too much for Seattle today. He had running lanes but couldn't get the wheels turning.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 18 2015, 08:48 PM) *
You're not giving the kid enough credit. He certainly put the team on his back. After having an awful 3 1/2 quarters he did what you (should) expect out of your franchise QB's and played outstanding to come from behind and get the win.

It wasn't Wilson alone. The D should get most of the credit. Lynch should get whatever is left over.

I think you're missing my point. I don't mean to take away from Wilson even if he did have his problems. My point was that McCarthy took his foot off the accelerator and his defense played stupid in the final 4 minutes. It's all great to run the clock out when you've got a two possession lead, but the Packers looked like they went to the locker room on both sides of the ball. Run Lacy, lose two. Run Lacy, lose two. Over and over. Why didn't Dix even jump for that ball? Why didn't they at least try to throw the ball at a one armed CB?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 18 2015, 08:50 PM) *
Who is the last SB champion to not have an "elite" franchise QB?


Seattle last year, about to repeat. The Giants twice in recent years. The Ravens with Joe Flacco. All had good franchise QB's, not elite ones, and excellent defense.
Dreagon
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 19 2015, 11:36 AM) *
Seattle last year, about to repeat. The Giants twice in recent years. The Ravens with Joe Flacco. All had good franchise QB's, not elite ones, and excellent defense.



Good point. I think we need to make a distinction between the upper crust of "franchise quarterbacks" and "elite quarterbacks".


That being said, a true franchise qb seems to be an integral part of being a Super Bowl team.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jan 19 2015, 01:00 PM) *
That being said, a true franchise qb seems to be an integral part of being a Super Bowl team.


Of course.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 19 2015, 12:36 PM) *
Seattle last year, about to repeat. The Giants twice in recent years. The Ravens with Joe Flacco. All had good franchise QB's, not elite ones, and excellent defense.

like it or not Eli's going to the HoF, 2x SB MVP's will do that for you. I gues it depends on whether you believe a HoF career is worthy of "elite status". Wilson doesn't get his due. Hopefully that will change if the Seahawks win it again this year. Then again many of us felt that Brady was just a game manager after his first 2 SB's, so it may take some more time. I don't have an argument for Flacco, but there are people that believe it is his play in the post season that gives him status.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 19 2015, 01:04 PM) *
like it or not Eli's going to the HoF, 2x SB MVP's will do that for you. I gues it depends on whether you believe a HoF career is worthy of "elite status". Wilson doesn't get his due. Hopefully that will change if the Seahawks win it again this year. Then again many of us felt that Brady was just a game manager after his first 2 SB's, so it may take some more time. I don't have an argument for Flacco, but there are people that believe it is his play in the post season that gives him status.


I've never believed Eli deserved those Super Bowl MVPs. I've always felt he got it because they couldn't give them to the Giants defensive line...especially in that first game. That being said, Eli is definitely a franchise qb....but I would not put him up on that tiny next level of elite.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
like it or not Eli's going to the HoF, 2x SB MVP's will do that for you


Yup. For his career, he's around McNabb/Aikman - the SB's will get you to the HoF. He's also clutch and had great defensive play through his championship runs.

QUOTE
Then again many of us felt that Brady was just a game manager after his first 2 SB's, so it may take some more time.


After his initial run fine, someone could've called him that and it would've been chalked up to ignorance. Only a complete idiot would've called him a game manager after his 2nd season.

QUOTE
I don't have an argument for Flacco


You don't have an argument for any of them. Eli, Wilson, and Flacco are all franchise QB's, but not elite.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 19 2015, 03:00 PM) *
You don't have an argument for any of them. Eli, Wilson, and Flacco are all franchise QB's, but not elite.

Yes to Flacco, but Wilson is an elite QB. We would take him here in a heartbeat. He has the right combination of talent/skill and smarts. He is easily a top 10 QB in the NFL (top 5 in my book). Eli borders on good/great, but he is a future HoF player and those in Canton are considered to be the best of the best aka "elite".

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 19 2015, 03:33 PM) *
We would take him here in a heartbeat.


No shit. For the record, I've said on this board that he would instantly make us a contender, I like him a lot and he's perfect for Chip's offense IMO. So I'm not insulting him, nor am I insulting the other QB's mentioned, I just don't think they're in the 'elite' category with Brady, P. Manning, Brees, and Rodgers.
nephillymike
I don't think Eli is a HOF QB.

I was only impressed with him twice in his career.

The GB away cold game in the Playoffs one year and his second Super Bowl win.

The first one, he owes that to Assante's incompetetence. That was a gimme pick six one play before the helmet catch.

We play him at least twice a year and not once was I ever concerned with him as our opposing QB. I felt it was to our advantage.

Nope.

No HOF for him!!
BirdsWinBaby
yea as much as you might hate to believe it

the NFL CAN.NOT.WAIT. to induct a pair of brothers into the HOF

consider how much programming that will provide for the networks when it happens. they will both be retired, years will have passed and its PERFECT

hours of talking about Archie training them, showing them as kids, editing out all the times Eli closed his eyes and threw as he turned away from a hit like a girl, etc...

were you able to stomach the coverage of the 'manning bowls', those few games where the Giants played the Colts and EVERY FRIGGIN DAY of the week was Manning day? imagine that times 100

since its clear Peyton will retire first (old and busted) be prepared to see them not allow him in until Eli gains eligibility. even if Peyton goes early they will still milk the HELL out of the story

if you dont think you have the stomach for this...call your cable/satellite provider....its coming. BIG TIME!

so yea...Eli is in
nephillymike
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jan 19 2015, 09:09 PM) *
yea as much as you might hate to believe it

the NFL CAN.NOT.WAIT. to induct a pair of brothers into the HOF

consider how much programming that will provide for the networks when it happens. they will both be retired, years will have passed and its PERFECT

hours of talking about Archie training them, showing them as kids, editing out all the times Eli closed his eyes and threw as he turned away from a hit like a girl, etc...

were you able to stomach the coverage of the 'manning bowls', those few games where the Giants played the Colts and EVERY FRIGGIN DAY of the week was Manning day? imagine that times 100

since its clear Peyton will retire first (old and busted) be prepared to see them not allow him in until Eli gains eligibility. even if Peyton goes early they will still milk the HELL out of the story

if you dont think you have the stomach for this...call your cable/satellite provider....its coming. BIG TIME!

so yea...Eli is in


Do you think he deserves to get in?
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 19 2015, 10:28 PM) *
Do you think he deserves to get in?



based on merit? no. based on SB MVP's he might not have completely earned? no

however, do i give him more credit than most as being an 'elite' QB at times when his team would not have won a trophy had he not done that? yes

circling back to Wilson....he made 'elite' QB plays when he had to and it led to a win they needed.

call both he and Eli (and Flacco, etc...) elite/great/good/average/mediocre or something in between...i dont think the eagles have that now. until we get whatever you call that...great/good/mediocre defenses wont matter

and trying to elevate the defense to GOD/Elite status thru the draft or FA wont fix the QB label anybody has for Foles

which leaves you in limbo again and again
Zero
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jan 19 2015, 11:24 PM) *
circling back to Wilson....he made 'elite' QB plays when he had to and it led to a win they needed.

Like the hail mary, up-for-grabs 2 point conversion that allowed them to win that game? I'd love to have him leading this offense and he may reach elite some day but I agree he's not there now.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 20 2015, 05:51 AM) *
Like the hail mary, up-for-grabs 2 point conversion that allowed them to win that game? I'd love to have him leading this offense and he may reach elite some day but I agree he's not there now.

Don't you mean the clutch 35 yard TD pass in O/T? Because that's what won the game. The 2PT conversion was just the icing on the cake of a miraculous (lucky) come from behind drive. "If" the conversion hadn't happened, they would have still had a 1PT lead, which would have changed the way they played defense on GB's final drive.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 20 2015, 10:27 AM) *
Don't you mean the clutch 35 yard TD pass in O/T? Because that's what won the game. The 2PT conversion was just the icing on the cake of a miraculous (lucky) come from behind drive. "If" the conversion hadn't happened, they would have still had a 1PT lead, which would have changed the way they played defense on GB's final drive.

I still say the Pack lost the game. Conservative play calling. INT and drop to the ground instead of returning it. Never testing a one armed QB ... with the run or the pass. That's not taking away from Wilson but looking at what the leading team failed to do to win the game. The unexplainable list of dumbness on the part of the Packers is unbelievable.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 20 2015, 07:39 PM) *
I still say the Pack lost the game. Conservative play calling. INT and drop to the ground instead of returning it. Never testing a one armed QB ... with the run or the pass. That's not taking away from Wilson but looking at what the leading team failed to do to win the game. The unexplainable list of dumbness on the part of the Packers is unbelievable.

Good point about Sherman's one arm.

I would have singled him up and throw quick passes and watched him try to tackle. Then go up top. Then waved him goodbye like he did to us.

Fuck him!
JeeQ
Just going to leave this here...




What's that JeeQ? What are his Rushing stats? So glad you asked...

1,877 Yards & 11 Touchdowns


JeeQ
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 19 2015, 03:49 PM) *
No shit. For the record, I've said on this board that he would instantly make us a contender, I like him a lot and he's perfect for Chip's offense IMO. So I'm not insulting him, nor am I insulting the other QB's mentioned, I just don't think they're in the 'elite' category with Brady, P. Manning, Brees, and Rodgers.


As far as the elite QB discussion goes HoP nailed my elite QB list...

As far as franchise QB go Wilson, Ryan, Manning, Rivers, Flacco, Luck, Romo, Newton, Roethlisberger

All these QBs can win a team a Super Bowl... Elite or Franchise

But if I had to describe what makes a QB Elite Vs Franchise as simply as possible I'd say...

An Elite QB keeps your team consistently a Super Bowl contender, a franchise QB keeps your team consistency a playoff contender
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 20 2015, 10:16 PM) *
Good point about Sherman's one arm.

I would have singled him up and throw quick passes and watched him try to tackle. Then go up top. Then waved him goodbye like he did to us.

Fuck him!

Thanks for catching my typo ... one armed QB should have been one armed CB. sad.gif
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