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nephillymike
What if he is not as good as 2013, not as bad as 2014 and is just a QB who plays to his career average, all things considered.

Is he worth a shot?

Career Stats

#..Name.................QB Rate....TD...INT
1.R. Wilson................98.6......72-26
2.N. Foles..................94.2......46-17
3.M. Ryan..................91.1......181-91
4.C. Kaepernick..........90.6......50-21
5.R. GriffinIII.............90.6.......40-23
6.A. Luck...................86.6.......86-43
7.C. Palmer................86.3....224-155
8.C. Newton...............85.4......82-54
9.A. Dalton.................85.2......99-66
10.J. Flacco................84.8......148-90
11.R. Tannehill...........84.0......63-42
12.M. Stafford............83.6......131-85
13.A. Smith...............82.8......122-76
14.E. Manning...........82.4.......259-185

At a cost of $816,000 for the upcoming year, is he worth a shot?

Should we draft Mariota at #20 if he's there? Trade up to 10 to get him? Mortgage the farm to get him at the top of the draft?

I say no to the top of the draft mortgage.

I'd think about moving up to 10.

I'd take him at 20 but only with open competition, although I don't know if that would be the case.

And Foles. The thing that sticks in my head is that horrible backpedaling throwing off the back foot that consumed his entire season. Was it b/c he was hurting before the bone broke? He wasn't looking good in training camp and mini camps according to the reporters. Are his mechanics permanately screwed? As "just Ok" as Sanchez was, it was less painful to watch him play. His pocket mechanics were much better, even though he was limited as to what throws he can make. How does a guy go 6th in the draft if he can't make all the NFL throws?

Will Mariota move down once he goes thru the Pro Day/Combine drills? I think he will.

How much running do we need from a QB in this system? Would Mariota survive injury running in the NFL where LB's skinny the field?

All questions.

Few answers.

Anyone with answers?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 17 2015, 03:46 PM) *
At a cost of $816,000 for the upcoming year, is he worth a shot?

Should we draft Mariota at #20 if he's there? Trade up to 10 to get him? Mortgage the farm to get him at the top of the draft?


If Mariota's there at #20, and I don't know how the hell that's possible, hey fine take him. Even a trade up to #10 will cost more than I'd like to give up for a running QB who couldn't beat a good college defense, though I'd be able to live with it.

We ain't winning shit, EVER, without a huge improvement on defense. 10 out of our 15 picks under Kelly have been on defense, and that's refreshing, except for the fact that those picks have sucked ass outside of Benny Logan. At #20 we'll be in position to draft one of the top few DB's coming out, if not the top one, I'd rather move up a few places for that if they like someone.
Dreagon
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 17 2015, 02:46 PM) *
What if he is not as good as 2013, not as bad as 2014 and is just a QB who plays to his career average, all things considered.


In that case I would suggest he's the perfect quarterback to concentrate on building a team around while you keep an eye out for a shot at the franchise qb of the future.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 17 2015, 04:08 PM) *
If Mariota's there at #20, and I don't know how the hell that's possible, hey fine take him. Even a trade up to #10 will cost more than I'd like to give up for a running QB who couldn't beat a good college defense, though I'd be able to live with it.

We ain't winning shit, EVER, without a huge improvement on defense. 10 out of our 15 picks under Kelly have been on defense, and that's refreshing, except for the fact that those picks have sucked ass outside of Benny Logan. At #20 we'll be in position to draft one of the top few DB's coming out, if not the top one, I'd rather move up a few places for that if they like someone.


IMO, A little harsh on yur criticism of Mariota vs. Ohio St.

He was 24-37 33 yds 2 TD's 1 INT for a 100.4 rating. And that was with two huge drops and one obvious PI no call, in addition to shaking off the shoulder pain of the big time hit. The INT was an end of game hail mary. He played well enough to win.

Ohio St OL dominated the Oregon DL in the last 20 minutes of that game and that's what sealed the deal. Prior to that it was Ohio St 21, Oregon 20

Ohio St deserved it, it was amazing what that team did with the 3rd QB. But their win does not diminish Mariota or Oregon's offensive system. They manhandled the Oregon front 7 as evidenced by their 61 rushing attempts. That's a defensive problem.

I do think that Mariota will drop because he won't be as good as making all of the throws as some other prospects when viewed at the combine. But in our system, the risk is low, the reward great. I could see some shying away if they doubt he can be a NFL QB in a "non Chip" offense.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jan 17 2015, 04:55 PM) *
In that case I would suggest he's the perfect quarterback to concentrate on building a team around while you keep an eye out for a shot at the franchise qb of the future.


You may be right D.

We do have one year before we have to make a decision. Foles can't expect an early contract and we don't have to commit until later.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Ohio St deserved it, it was amazing what that team did with the 3rd QB. But their win does not diminish Mariota or Oregon's offensive system. They manhandled the Oregon front 7 as evidenced by their 61 rushing attempts.


Point being, as several people agreed when watching the game, we felt like we were watching the Eagles. The offense can score and put up points, but when they don't, a gassed defense can't save you.

Agreed that they have a defensive problem, so do we. That's why they fall short when playing elite teams, as we have and will. Draft defense.


nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jan 17 2015, 07:09 PM) *
Point being, as several people agreed when watching the game, we felt like we were watching the Eagles. The offense can score and put up points, but when they don't, a gassed defense can't save you.

Agreed that they have a defensive problem, so do we. That's why they fall short when playing elite teams, as we have and will. Draft defense.


How much of the Eagles defensive problems do you think were because they were gassed?

How much of them being gassed is a result of our offense?

When I see the Eagles problems this year, I see an Eagles secondary that can't cover anybody, whether our offense held the ball for 40 minutes or 20 minutes. They sucked on the opening drive and they sucked on the ending drive. They flat out sucked at any time interval.

If they wanted to rest, they should have defended well enough to get off the field in three downs!!

Now that may be a reason to draft D, but is not a reason to ditch a very effective offense. We ran the offense with a QB who sucked for seven games and replaced him with a veteran QB who nobody wanted nor thought was any good and what did we finish, top five in offense?
Eyrie
I'm going to contradict my earlier posts here.

But if Mariota falls to 15 then there is a strong case for drafting him and making it open competition with Foles. Every team needs an elite QB to build around and this would give us two opportunities.

On the other hand rebuilding our defence will take a couple of elite FAs, a couple of solid FAs and two or three high draft picks. Unless Foles is the long term answer at QB, we'll be seeing those guys move on just as the QB we draft in 2016 or 2017 is ready to play and will have to rebuild our defence again.

So there is a case for focussing on the QB and OL in this draft and using FA this year together with FA and the draft next year to fix the defence - which means viewing 2015 as another rebuilding season.
Zero
The Eagles secondary has pretty much sucked since Dawk left in '09. Since then the team has drafted 10 players for the secondary:
Victor Harris, 5th
Nate Allen, 2nd
Trevard Lindley, 4th
Kurt Coleman, 7th
Jaiquawn Jarret, 2nd
Curtis Marsh, 3rd
Brandon Boykin, 4th
Jordon Poyer, 7th
Jaylen Watkins, 4th
Ed Reynolds, 5th

Is this why Howie was Depromoted? Not a lot of urgency there.

I don't think they need a D like Seattle to be a great team, but they definitely need to have players who can avoid continued long third down conversions and continued long TD passes. They also need an OL that can keep the running game viable and give the QB 3 seconds to find a receiver and throw the ball. The starting 5 OL can/did do that and when they did the QB so many are talking about getting rid of did what he was supposed to do. I'm stating the obvious by pointing to the DBs.

Why do we want to trade up to draft a QB?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 18 2015, 07:18 AM) *
The Eagles secondary has pretty much sucked since Dawk left in '09. Since then the team has drafted 10 players for the secondary:
Victor Harris, 5th
Nate Allen, 2nd
Trevard Lindley, 4th
Kurt Coleman, 7th
Jaiquawn Jarret, 2nd
Curtis Marsh, 3rd
Brandon Boykin, 4th
Jordon Poyer, 7th
Jaylen Watkins, 4th
Ed Reynolds, 5th

Is this why Howie was Depromoted? Not a lot of urgency there.

I don't think they need a D like Seattle to be a great team, but they definitely need to have players who can avoid continued long third down conversions and continued long TD passes. They also need an OL that can keep the running game viable and give the QB 3 seconds to find a receiver and throw the ball. The starting 5 OL can/did do that and when they did the QB so many are talking about getting rid of did what he was supposed to do. I'm stating the obvious by pointing to the DBs.

Why do we want to trade up to draft a QB?


That list of db draft picks is brutal.

I fill our db needs by getting two fa db, if not three. Trading up doesn't effect my approach for our dB's.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/secondary/

Cut Sconces, don't sign Fletch or Allen and go get me Thurmond and two more from here.

Another option is to trade a 2nd - 4th round pick for a non FA cb from another team.

Zero
At this point, the only thing that really concerns me about Foles is his led legs. Some point to his injuries, but I think that's more a matter of him understanding that Iron Man without his helmet isn't going to play and isn't going to win. I think he'll get that ... hope. He' has shown signs of brilliance, has been mediocre and has struggled mightily. His teammates respect him, he's young, smart and he wins (28 - 8). In all of that, "young" and "wins" are the most relevant points. I believe he will get better.

But, he can't run. I can't think of seeing any other QB who runs worse than he does. Is it important? Can he be trained to run better?
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 18 2015, 07:54 AM) *
Cut Sconces, don't sign Fletch or Allen and go get me Thurmond and two more from here.

Another option is to trade a 2nd - 4th round pick for a non FA cb from another team.

I think they keep Williams as long as he'll restructure. He's not as bad as Fletcher and not as bad as you make him out to be. With a real #1 beside him and a good FS to play with Jenkins I think we'd have a solid defensive backfield. The trick is getting the right two new guys and getting Williams to redo his deal.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 19 2015, 01:21 PM) *
I think they keep Williams as long as he'll restructure. He's not as bad as Fletcher and not as bad as you make him out to be. With a real #1 beside him and a good FS to play with Jenkins I think we'd have a solid defensive backfield. The trick is getting the right two new guys and getting Williams to redo his deal.

Alternatively we bring in a top level CB and opposing teams start picking on Williams as the weak link. That doesn't fill me with confidence.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jan 19 2015, 02:25 PM) *
Alternatively we bring in a top level CB and opposing teams start picking on Williams as the weak link. That doesn't fill me with confidence.

Me either, but it's rare to have two great CBs and I'd rather have them pick on Williams instead of Fletcher.
D Rock
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 20 2015, 10:54 AM) *
Me either, but it's rare to have two great CBs and I'd rather have them pick on Williams instead of Fletcher.

And he's a dick. Williams is gone.
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