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Zero
We need a QB and two CB
SpudDogg
Indeed.

Also on the list is some new tactics to generate turnovers.
JeeQ
QUOTE (SpudDogg @ Dec 14 2014, 08:36 PM) *
Indeed.

Also on the list is some new tactics to generate turnovers.


We're good there laugh.gif

Also one thing I couldn't help but think of after watching Mark Sanchez go Mark Sanchez tonight...

Ever since we traded McNabb after an 11-5 season because Kolb was the future, we haven't had a single QB have consecutively good seasons... or even stay healthy for an entire season for that matter
koolaidluke
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 15 2014, 01:30 AM) *
Ever since we traded McNabb after an 11-5 season because Kolb was the future, we haven't had a single QB have consecutively good seasons... or even stay healthy for an entire season for that matter


One thing about McNabb, even post 2004 McNabb, was that for all the bad things you could say about him, overall you could count on him year in and year out to be productive and give you a chance to win. Like Foles, he wasn't always pretty but he got the job done.

I think Sanchez is VASTLY more aesthetically pleasing to watch than Foles, but there can be no question now that Foles is 200 times the better quarterback.


I am convinced that Foles cannot stay healthy though, so I don't believe he is the answer.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Dec 15 2014, 03:47 AM) *
I think Sanchez is VASTLY more aesthetically pleasing to watch than Foles, but there can be no question now that Foles is 200 times the better quarterback.


I am convinced that Foles cannot stay healthy though, so I don't believe he is the answer.

I agree with the first part of the comment. However, I a not quite ready to label Foles a china doll after one significant injury.
CT_Eagle
Definitely need two CBs in the off season. The Eagles also need to limit the turnovers. They were obviously huge last night.

With regards to QB, I would not make a move yet. Give Foles next season to see what he can do. If there is a project QB that Chip likes in the 3rd or later, go for it.

Edit to add, the Eagles still need another WR. Cooper should be gone.
HobbEs
All this talk about positions of need...how about a real talent evaluator first and foremost?

I've seen enough to know we whiffed on Huff. Marcus Smith can't make a play because of too many splinters in his azz (even though I'm still holding out hope he gets it together). We needed an Safety and we drafted one who later got cut. Jaylen Watkins was the coveted first pick in the 4th round...so coveted that there's a reward for information on his whereabouts. We did hit on two late round picks who made the squad...blind squirrel meet nut. If not for Jordan Matthews this draft would be a total disaster.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 15 2014, 08:42 AM) *
Definitely need two CBs in the off season. The Eagles also need to limit the turnovers. They were obviously huge last night.

This is one of the biggest differences between the 2 seasons. Last year we didn't turn the ball over (least amount of turnovers in the league), this year we lead the league in turnovers. Fumbles have been a major issue.


JaxEagle
CT, Hobbes, Phits,

Agree with all that 110%!
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 14 2014, 11:30 PM) *
We need a QB and two CB

Both starting CBs are a liability as far as I am concerned. Unlike some though, I haven't called it quits with Foles.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Dec 15 2014, 09:22 AM) *
All this talk about positions of need...how about a real talent evaluator first and foremost?

I've seen enough to know we whiffed on Huff. Marcus Smith can't make a play because of too many splinters in his azz (even though I'm still holding out hope he gets it together). We needed an Safety and we drafted one who later got cut. Jaylen Watkins was the coveted first pick in the 4th round...so coveted that there's a reward for information on his whereabouts. We did hit on two late round picks who made the squad...blind squirrel meet nut. If not for Jordan Matthews this draft would be a total disaster.


Agree with this. Our defensive draft picks apart from Logan have been wastes, and the offensive picks not much better, though I think Matthews will be a good #2. Our acquisitions have been the best moves. I think Chip will and should take a chance on a QB he likes in the draft, but if I have to choose between giving Foles another shot and mortgaging our franchise to get a top pick QB, I'll give the ball to Foles for one more year. Seattle will be a contender for years because of their drafting.
mcnabbulous
I can't believe we're still debating whether Foles is the answer. As bad as Sanchez has been, he's been no worse than Foles.

Foles is more capable of leading us from behind, which is the absolute nightmare scenario with Sanchez. If you force Sanchez to throw a lot, he's going to make a couple of mistakes. Guaranteed.

With that said, they've both been unacceptable this year. Watching Chip's offense with a QB that poses no running threat is like driving a Lamborghini with the parking break on.

At this point, I'm okay with bringing in 2 QB's every year until we find our guy.
Dreagon
What y'all need is a quarterback. That was the difference this game.

You guys had the better defense, and by far the better coaching. Your running backs did as good as Murray, so that wasn't the problem either. Yeah, Dez had a big game against Fletcher but he does that against a lot of people so that wasn't necessarily as bad as it looked.

The fact of the matter is that you guys have been playing with your backup quarterback, and Kelly has managed to scheme things so that y'all went 3-3 with him. That's not to shabby. Not having your starting QB hurts badly. Just look at how we played in our previous game when Romo couldn't throw the ball downfield.

The simple truth is that we never got to play each other this year when we were both at our best. That's a shame, but I guess that's the way it goes sometime.

On the other hand, the season is hardly over. Believe me, I'm not sitting here wondering who our first playoff opponent is going to be....because I'm far from convinced we've made it yet. And there is still no telling what can happen with those other NFC wildcard contenders either.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 11:35 AM) *
I can't believe we're still debating whether Foles is the answer. As bad as Sanchez has been, he's been no worse than Foles.

Foles is more capable of leading us from behind, which is the absolute nightmare scenario with Sanchez. If you force Sanchez to throw a lot, he's going to make a couple of mistakes. Guaranteed.

With that said, they've both been unacceptable this year. Watching Chip's offense with a QB that poses no running threat is like driving a Lamborghini with the parking break on.

At this point, I'm okay with bringing in 2 QB's every year until we find our guy.

You're either trolling on this board or you have absolutely no clue about football.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
koolaidluke
where do you want to find a QB who is also a running threat?

Chip's offense worked pretty good with human statue Foles last season, I think he just needs the RIGHT human statue.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 15 2014, 10:47 AM) *
You're either trolling on this board or you have absolutely no clue about football.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Ahh, nothing I love more than the old "no clue about football" retort. What exactly am I wrong about? It would help if you cleared that one up. Do you think Foles was better than Sanchez? His numbers would indicate that wasn't the case.

Do you think we don't need a QB? Do you think Chip's offense wouldn't be better with a run threat? You can save your emoticons this time.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Dec 15 2014, 11:03 AM) *
where do you want to find a QB who is also a running threat?

They don't have to be a runner. They just need to pose a threat. A guy with Rodgers-type mobility would suffice.

QUOTE
Chip's offense worked pretty good with human statue Foles last season, I think he just needs the RIGHT human statue.

Yeah, absolutely. But it's pretty clear that defenses have adjusted to Chip's scheme. The guys running wide open all over the field is no longer the case. It's still an awesome offense, but it's designed to have a read-option threat to stretch the defense.

Like I said, grab two guys a year until we find our guy. No one thought the Seahawks were in the market for a QB when they drafted Wilson. Most pundits graded the selection an F. They were smart enough to know that you keep trying to acquire one until you have the right one.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 15 2014, 08:42 AM) *
the Eagles still need another WR. Cooper should be gone.

Of our needs, WR is near the bottom...especially without a reliable QB to get them the ball.
JeeQ
After Chip conducted verbal fellatio on Marcus Mariota this morning for the second time in a week I'm starting to get convinced we're going to trade the house to draft this kid
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 15 2014, 11:33 AM) *
After Chip conducted verbal fellatio on Marcus Mariota this morning for the second time in a week I'm starting to get convinced we're going to trade the house to draft this kid

This would be a dream scenario, but no way it happens. I can't even imagine a situation in which we could pull it off. What resources would we have that could even make that a possibility?
Zero
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 15 2014, 11:06 AM) *
Both starting CBs are a liability as far as I am concerned. Unlike some though, I haven't called it quits with Foles.

I haven't given up on Foles, but last year he had competition, he had to keep the job from reverting back to Vick. Barkley seems to be busted and after watching what Sanchez has to offer, it's clear to me that he's a backup. With the way Foles played this year they need to get someone that will seriously challenge for the starting job.

Huff may need a brain transplant ... he came in to town thinking he had all the answers and it's been made pretty obvious that he didn't have any. He's got great YAC ability so he's worth an offseason of reeducation to see if he can contribute more than as a KOR.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 15 2014, 11:51 AM) *
Huff may need a brain transplant ... he came in to town thinking he had all the answers and it's been made pretty obvious that he didn't have any. He's got great YAC ability so he's worth an offseason of reeducation to see if he can contribute more than as a KOR.

I know that Huff took visual ownership of it after the play, but it seemed as though Brad Smith should have gone after that one. I'm genuinely unsure of what the standard is in that scenario.

Is the general consensus that Huff was at fault? Did Chip speak to it after the game? I haven't seen any specifics on it since it happened.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 15 2014, 12:51 PM) *
Huff may need a brain transplant ... he came in to town thinking he had all the answers and it's been made pretty obvious that he didn't have any. He's got great YAC ability so he's worth an offseason of reeducation to see if he can contribute more than as a KOR.


I'm not sure any amount of 'reeducation' will help here. He's been targeted 16 times this year for 7 receptions, and correct me if I'm wrong, has been directly responsible for 4 turnovers, 2 fumbles and 2 assists to opposing DB's. If you can't challenge Riley Cooper for the job, time to move on.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 12:03 PM) *
I know that Huff took visual ownership of it after the play, but it seemed as though Brad Smith should have gone after that one. I'm genuinely unsure of what the standard is in that scenario.

Is the general consensus that Huff was at fault? Did Chip speak to it after the game? I haven't seen any specifics on it since it happened.

To answer my own question, I just saw this on Twitter:

@EaglesInsider: Chip: On the kickoff, the upback (Brad Smith) should have taken it. It was a communication thing.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 12:17 PM) *
Ahh, nothing I love more than the old "no clue about football" retort. What exactly am I wrong about? It would help if you cleared that one up. Do you think Foles was better than Sanchez? His numbers would indicate that wasn't the case.

Do you think we don't need a QB? Do you think Chip's offense wouldn't be better with a run threat? You can save your emoticons this time.

Nobody other than you thinks Foles v Sanchez is even a discussion. Yes Chip could utilize a run threat but spare me the RG Mariotta discussion. Mariotta is RGIII. Heck, Sanchez can run like Rodgers but he didn't even utilize that. Your statistical conclusions are laughable because one only need watch a little. I like Sanchez but he is a bottom of the league starter and mediocre to above average backup. Based on your stats, somebody will surely hand Sanchez a starting job and big contract this offseason. LOL! There, I saved the emoticons.
Birdman420
If Sanchez can run, and he's shown that he can. Why isn't he?

Foles is coming back so who cares if our backup get's knocked up a little as long as we win right?

I think what chip's offense needs is a run threat QB and we won't see his offensive genius come into fruition until that happens.

As far as the lack of Sanchez running, is that because chip is holding the reins or is it because Sanchez isn't making that run/read decision. It appears that on every play action pass play that HE has the option to give the ball, keep it and run or keep it and continue with the pass. If this is the case, he's being very vanilla with his reads and seems like a poor fit based on the games so far.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 15 2014, 01:12 PM) *
Nobody other than you thinks Foles v Sanchez is even a discussion.

I don't think either of them is worth discussing. That seems to be the main difference here. They're both trash and we're not going anywhere with either of them at the helm.

QUOTE
Yes Chip could utilize a run threat but spare me the RG Mariotta discussion. Mariotta is RGIII.

Have you ever watched Mariota play? I suspect you know more about the guy than Chip, who said he's the most talented player he ever coached at Oregon.

The guy is an absolute star. He has everything you could want in the position.

QUOTE
Heck, Sanchez can run like Rodgers but he didn't even utilize that.

There is nothing to back this up.

QUOTE
Your statistical conclusions are laughable because one only need watch a little.

What conclusions do you believe I'm drawing? You're probably right though, my TV doesn't allow me to "watch a little." Let me know what channel the game is on next week.

QUOTE
I like Sanchez but he is a bottom of the league starter and mediocre to above average backup. Based on your stats, somebody will surely hand Sanchez a starting job and big contract this offseason. LOL! There, I saved the emoticons.

Seriously, I'm not suggesting Sanchez is worthy of starting here. I just don't believe Foles is either. I've seen enough of them to know they are both backups.

For whatever reason, you think Foles' trash performance this year is more impressive than Sanchez's trash performance. I think Sanchez's trash performance is slightly more palatable than Foles'.

You seem to have misinterpreted my dislike for Foles' game for an admiration of Sanchez. I want nothing to do with either of them.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Dec 15 2014, 01:24 PM) *
If Sanchez can run, and he's shown that he can. Why isn't he?

Foles is coming back so who cares if our backup get's knocked up a little as long as we win right?

I think what chip's offense needs is a run threat QB and we won't see his offensive genius come into fruition until that happens.

As far as the lack of Sanchez running, is that because chip is holding the reins or is it because Sanchez isn't making that run/read decision. It appears that on every play action pass play that HE has the option to give the ball, keep it and run or keep it and continue with the pass. If this is the case, he's being very vanilla with his reads and seems like a poor fit based on the games so far.

I don't really think the read-option is a real option most of the time. I also don't believe Sanchez is great at properly reading it when the opportunity does present itself.

Sanchez is certainly more athletic than Foles, but he's not in the Luck/Rodgers mold either.
Birdman420
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 03:30 PM) *
I don't really think the read-option is a real option most of the time. I also don't believe Sanchez is great at properly reading it when the opportunity does present itself.

Sanchez is certainly more athletic than Foles, but he's not in the Luck/Rodgers mold either.


Well I think we all know that Sanchez does not measure up to Foles when it comes to pocket passing. I thought the upside to Sanchez was going to be his ability to move his legs to keep the defense honest. I was expecting a different dynamic from how Foles played to Sanchez, I was wrong.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Dec 15 2014, 01:35 PM) *
Well I think we all know that Sanchez does not measure up to Foles when it comes to pocket passing.

By what standard? People need to stop evaluating Foles based on 2013.

Have you guys looked at their passing stats this year? They are virtually identical across the board.

QUOTE
I thought the upside to Sanchez was going to be his ability to move his legs to keep the defense honest. I was expecting a different dynamic from how Foles played to Sanchez, I was wrong.

Why did you have an expectation that Sanchez could move. His mobility within the pocket has been much better than Foles' this year, but he's never been confused for any sort of running threat.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 02:27 PM) *
I don't think either of them is worth discussing. That seems to be the main difference here. They're both trash and we're not going anywhere with either of them at the helm.


Have you ever watched Mariota play? I suspect you know more about the guy than Chip, who said he's the most talented player he ever coached at Oregon.

The guy is an absolute star. He has everything you could want in the position.


There is nothing to back this up.


What conclusions do you believe I'm drawing? You're probably right though, my TV doesn't allow me to "watch a little." Let me know what channel the game is on next week.


Seriously, I'm not suggesting Sanchez is worthy of starting here. I just don't believe Foles is either. I've seen enough of them to know they are both backups.

For whatever reason, you think Foles' trash performance this year is more impressive than Sanchez's trash performance. I think Sanchez's trash performance is slightly more palatable than Foles'.

You seem to have misinterpreted my dislike for Foles' game for an admiration of Sanchez. I want nothing to do with either of them.


Stats don't mean jack. What's your statistical equation to evaluate the mental game, competitiveness, game IQ, headiness? Nevermind bro you'd have to play to understand. I'm done with the discussion. Oh, one more thing. Chip says Marcus Mariotta is the best ever, huh. What school did Mariotta go to? Who cares what the meaningless small talk is. Chip said the same stuff about Josh Huff and he can barely make it on the field with the benefit of Chip being his coach and Riley Cooper being in front of him.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 14 2014, 11:30 PM) *
We need a QB and two CB


I'll settle for at least ONE competent CB. But replacements at both positions are a MUST.

If Mariota scares every team before the Eagles pick I'm fully on board, but I see the Eagles going 11-5 this season, playoffs or not. That's not going to net the Eagles a difference-making QB.

the Eagles do not have one currently on their roster. They ended up sucking in the wrong season.

also, Marcus Smith is looking like the draft goat this season
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 15 2014, 01:59 PM) *
Stats don't mean jack. What's your statistical equation to evaluate the mental game, competitiveness, game IQ, headiness? Nevermind bro you'd have to play to understand.

Oh shit. You just dropped the "you'd have to play to understand." You're taking message board cliche douchebaggery to new levels here. Had never seen this side of you.

QUOTE
I'm done with the discussion.

This was a discussion? You've just been acting like a child for several months making every excuse possible for Foles. I don't quite get it.

QUOTE
Oh, one more thing. Chip says Marcus Mariotta is the best ever, huh.

The best he ever coached. Are you suggesting Chip doesn't know the players he has coached?

QUOTE
What school did Mariotta go to? Who cares what the meaningless small talk is. Chip said the same stuff about Josh Huff and he can barely make it on the field with the benefit of Chip being his coach and Riley Cooper being in front of him.

What does Josh Huff have to do with Marcus Mariota? Mariota is a Heisman winning QB who is likely to go #1 in the draft. Huff was a borderline 3rd rounder who many considered a slight reach.

What is it about Mariota that you think is so awful? Is he shaded a bit too much towards the brown side to have all the mental game, competitiveness, game IQ, headiness you desire?
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 03:10 PM) *
Oh shit. You just dropped the "you'd have to play to understand." You're taking message board cliche douchebaggery to new levels here. Had never seen this side of you.


This was a discussion? You've just been acting like a child for several months making every excuse possible for Foles. I don't quite get it.


The best he ever coached. Are you suggesting Chip doesn't know the players he has coached?


What does Josh Huff have to do with Marcus Mariota? Mariota is a Heisman winning QB who is likely to go #1 in the draft. Huff was a borderline 3rd rounder who many considered a slight reach.

What is it about Mariota that you think is so awful? Is he shaded a bit too much towards the brown side to have all the mental game, competitiveness, game IQ, headiness you desire?

I'm just telling you how it is. You can call it douchebaggery if you want but its the facts here. You're a stat guy that can't identify with competing, you identify with paper tangibles. You probably loved the Mike Mamula pick. You probably have a picture of you and Pete Prisco hanging on your wall.

I'm not going to call you out for making racist accusations so don't get you're Austin liberal ass all worked up. My opinion that Mariotta isn't a #1 draft choice has nothing to do with his skin. I don't know what his ethnicity is and I don't care either. People are people. Those that get caught up in race arguments are the primary offenders.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 15 2014, 05:36 PM) *
I'm just telling you how it is. You can call it douchebaggery if you want but its the facts here. You're a stat guy that can't identify with competing, you identify with paper tangibles. You probably loved the Mike Mamula pick. You probably have a picture of you and Pete Prisco hanging on your wall.

And you probably don't know a goddamned thing about me. I'm a common sense guy. I watched Foles throw off his back foot for the entire season. I watched him cost us two games directly. I watched him throw passes like this all season long:



QUOTE
I'm not going to call you out for making racist accusations so don't get you're Austin liberal ass all worked up. My opinion that Mariotta isn't a #1 draft choice has nothing to do with his skin. I don't know what his ethnicity is and I don't care either. People are people. Those that get caught up in race arguments are the primary offenders.

Well then maybe you can elaborate on why a guy that has 101 career TD passes and 12 career INTs is the next RG3. That's right, you're not a stat guy. You have some magical, mystical ability to look at someone and know what's going on between their ears. You've literally offered nothing of value in your evaluation of him.

It's hard not to draw conclusions when you hold Nick Foles to absolutely no standard. Cause he has the "mental game," "game IQ," and "headiness" you're looking for in a QB.

But yeah, "Mariota is RG3." Your words.
JeeQ
If you think Foles or Sanchez is the QB of the future you didn't watch this season...

When Vick was here we all knew he could never be the future QB because you'll never win turning the ball over...

Foles was leading all players in turnovers before he went down with injury, and since Sanchez has taken over he now leads all players in turnovers...

Dreadful
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 15 2014, 06:04 PM) *
If you think Foles or Sanchez is the QB of the future you didn't watch this season...

When Vick was here we all knew he could never be the future QB because you'll never win turning the ball over...

Foles was leading all players in turnovers before he went down with injury, and since Sanchez has taken over he now leads all players in turnovers...

Dreadful

No shit. The Foles apologists are a pretty strange phenomenon. The guy was absolutely dreadful. I could understand if the guy at least looked okay while being terrible. But he neither looked nor played the part of starting QB.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2014, 06:58 PM) *
And you probably don't know a goddamned thing about me. I'm a common sense guy. I watched Foles throw off his back foot for the entire season. I watched him cost us two games directly. I watched him throw passes like this all season long:




Well then maybe you can elaborate on why a guy that has 101 career TD passes and 12 career INTs is the next RG3. That's right, you're not a stat guy. You have some magical, mystical ability to look at someone and know what's going on between their ears. You've literally offered nothing of value in your evaluation of him.

It's hard not to draw conclusions when you hold Nick Foles to absolutely no standard. Cause he has the "mental game," "game IQ," and "headiness" you're looking for in a QB.

But yeah, "Mariota is RG3." Your words.

Mariotta has really nothing to do with this. Mariotta may prove to be better than RGIII and my analogy may be a slight exaggeration but still that has nothing to do with Sanchez and Foles. I don't think that much of Mariotta as a top of the first round NFL prospect, but that isn't what this discussion is about. It's about you claiming Sanchez is better than Foles. That was funny enough the first time you said it and backed it up with your fantasy football analysis. But now you still maintain the same. Guess what, you're all alone there. Everyone else has watched them and can clearly see that Foles is better. That's all. We aren't calling Foles a Hall of Famer and we aren't even saying that he is the Eagles' future. Simply humored by the fact that you STILL maintain the Sanchez is better. Any, yes, competitiveness is probably Foles best asset while it is Sanchez's weakest. It is a huge asset that can't be accounted for by stats. When you get to a certain level where everyone is good, it will come down to competitive toughness more often than arm strength, speed, etc. Stats are meaningless in this particular discussion and overrated in most other discussions too.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 15 2014, 06:27 PM) *
I don't think that much of Mariotta as a top of the first round NFL prospect, but that isn't what this discussion is about.

And yet despite my prodding, you won't actually comment on the guy's game. It must be that ability you possess where you can infer headiness by looking at a guy.

QUOTE
It's about you claiming Sanchez is better than Foles.

To be clear, I posted that Sanchez had played better than Foles this year. At this point, it's pretty negligible.

QUOTE
That was funny enough the first time you said it and backed it up with your fantasy football analysis. But now you still maintain the same. Guess what, you're all alone there.
Everyone else has watched them and can clearly see that Foles is better. That's all.

Everyone? In the whole world?!?! I missed the meeting when the vote took place, but the fact that you can clearly distinguish between two turds is an ability with which you must be very proud.

Since I get Eagles news from other places than this, I can assure you that isn't the case.

From my perspective and as I clearly stated earlier, they are basically having the same shitty year. It's just a matter of which flavor of stink you prefer. My reasons for preferring Sanchez at this point are:
  • He has had a better pocket presence
  • He offers a wee bit more mobility
  • His mistakes are more accuracy related than decision making

At this point, we're basically splitting hairs. I can't fathom why you think the difference is so "clear."

QUOTE
We aren't calling Foles a Hall of Famer and we aren't even saying that he is the Eagles' future.

As the self-appointed voice of the Nick Foles Apologist Club, I'll take your word for it.

QUOTE
Simply humored by the fact that you STILL maintain the Sanchez is better.

Well, you STILL haven't been able to comprehend that I don't think either is "better." I think they are both bad. Any amount better that Sanchez had played (and he had) has been erased over the past two weeks. With that said, I don't think we win either game with Foles at QB.

You're arguing for one of them. I'm arguing against both. That's seems to be where we differ.

QUOTE
Any, yes, competitiveness is probably Foles best asset while it is Sanchez's weakest. It is a huge asset that can't be accounted for by stats. When you get to a certain level where everyone is good, it will come down to competitive toughness more often than arm strength, speed, etc. Stats are meaningless in this particular discussion and overrated in most other discussions too.

How is Foles deemed more competitive than Sanchez? What characteristics about Foles and Sanchez make you believe that one is more competitive than the other?

Sanchez went to, at the time, the most QB competitive school in college football. Would someone who isn't competitive try to take on that challenge?

Conversely, Nick Foles transferred after his freshman year at Michigan State. Was he running away from competition?

I went into the season with very high hopes/expectations for Nick Foles. I can point you to any number of posts where I suggested that I expected him to succeed and have reasonable progression from year 2 to year 3.

Instead, every single attribute that concerned me about his game cropped up. I had doubts/concerns about his mechanics, athleticism, and deep passing ability. More concerning is that he regressed in composure, accuracy, and decision making.

His regression is on par with that of RG3, who I guess just doesn't have the same makeup as Nick Foles. Wonder why?

Edit: and fwiw, I reread my first post in this thread. Pretty uncontroversial and the opposite of just about everything you accused me of saying.
Zero
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 15 2014, 07:04 PM) *
If you think Foles or Sanchez is the QB of the future you didn't watch this season...

When Vick was here we all knew he could never be the future QB because you'll never win turning the ball over...

Foles was leading all players in turnovers before he went down with injury, and since Sanchez has taken over he now leads all players in turnovers...

No doubt about the QBs this season. But I find it a bit surprising that some people have already thrown out last season. Foles is in his third year. He was a third round pick. This was his first year as THE starter from the jump. He may be nothing more than a backup like I've already opined or he may have something inside him that will make him a legit QB who can lead his team to a SB win. I doubt anyone knows the future, only their opinion of what will happen.
HobbEs
Anybody else getting tired of this Foles vs Sanchez argument? It's like going to a party that is mostly dudes and a couple mediocre women. After a few drinks guys start competing for the only 'prize' available...

This morning a coworker stopped me. He told me he heard rumors coming out of Carolina that they may part ways with Cam Newton. So the question is, do you pay a king's ransom for Mariotta (because that's what it would cost to get him), play out next season with Foles/Sanchez (mediocre girl syndrome) or bring in someone from the outside (like a hot girl that just got dumped...but they usually come with baggage).
Phits
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Dec 16 2014, 09:31 AM) *
Anybody else getting tired of this Foles vs Sanchez argument? It's like going to a party that is mostly dudes and a couple mediocre women. After a few drinks guys start competing for the only 'prize' available...

This morning a coworker stopped me. He told me he heard rumors coming out of Carolina that they may part ways with Cam Newton. So the question is, do you pay a king's ransom for Mariotta (because that's what it would cost to get him), play out next season with Foles/Sanchez (mediocre girl syndrome) or bring in someone from the outside (like a hot girl that just got dumped...but they usually come with baggage).

I would take Cam in a heartbeat. He has the potential of being the best QB in the league.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 16 2014, 10:16 AM) *
I would take Cam in a heartbeat. He has the potential of being the best QB in the league.

Cam is the ideal QB for Kelly, on paper. The question is that he has lost his confidence. If Kelly isn't concerned about bringing him out of that funk then he sure could be Superman under Chip Kelly. I'd tend to think Chip could show him the success that restores his confidence without too much struggle. I'd invest on Cam if we didn't have to take a second mortgage for him. What's the going rate for a once first rounder that is a little broken?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Anybody else getting tired of this Foles vs Sanchez argument? It's like going to a party that is mostly dudes and a couple mediocre women. After a few drinks guys start competing for the only 'prize' available...


I don't think anyone 'loves' Foles, but the fact is he's had one brilliant year, and one crappy year with a banged up o-line. Sanchez has a long and proven track record of being pretty bad - so if I had to choose between them, the choice is clear. I don't want to pay the king's ransom for Mariota, we really need those picks that will have to be given up, but would happily take Cam Newton and give him the ball immediately.

Another problem we'll face is at WR - Maclin becomes a free agent, so do we pay him and draft a WR early, or do we spend big money on WR's like D. Thomas or Bryant? Next year's WR free agent list is pretty loaded, and we likely would only sign one, including Maclin.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 16 2014, 09:16 AM) *
I would take Cam in a heartbeat. He has the potential of being the best QB in the league.

I like Cam. Not quite sure he's got the pure passing ability to ever be the best in the league, but he's a better passer than I expected out of college. I do fear that his body has taken so much of a beating that he'll never quite be the threat he was his few few seasons.

He's done pretty damn well, considering his injuries and the pathetic supporting cast he has down there in Carolina this year. Would certainly be worth exploring.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 16 2014, 10:57 AM) *
I don't think anyone 'loves' Foles, but the fact is he's had one brilliant year, and one crappy year with a banged up o-line. Sanchez has a long and proven track record of being pretty bad - so if I had to choose between them, the choice is clear. I don't want to pay the king's ransom for Mariota, we really need those picks that will have to be given up, but would happily take Cam Newton and give him the ball immediately.

Another problem we'll face is at WR - Maclin becomes a free agent, so do we pay him and draft a WR early, or do we spend big money on WR's like D. Thomas or Bryant? Next year's WR free agent list is pretty loaded, and we likely would only sign one, including Maclin.

I'd say pay Maclin unless it is basically the same price as Thomas or Bryant. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Bears shop their pass catchers. They have to blow it up and start over and their receiver/tight ends could bring a return. Jeffrey is a total competitor and I'd love to have him. He fits Chip's model well.
nephillymike
Calm down.

Whoever you want us to get, or how much you think we will spend, use this little formula to tamper expectations:


E x 85% = AE

where E is expectations and AE is adjusted expectations and the 85% being the % of Cap that we will likely spend.

Then wait for the SSDY effect to kick in.

That is the Same Shit Different Year when we don't win a Super Bowl, again, have a shitload of cap room unspent and those weaknesses that everyone knew we had and thought would be addressed in the offseason but weren't come back to haunt us yet again.

Like Fucking Ground Hog Day.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 16 2014, 08:17 PM) *
Calm down.

Whoever you want us to get, or how much you think we will spend, use this little formula to tamper expectations:


E x 85% = AE

where E is expectations and AE is adjusted expectations and the 85% being the % of Cap that we will likely spend.

Then wait for the SSDY effect to kick in.

That is the Same Shit Different Year when we don't win a Super Bowl, again, have a shitload of cap room unspent and those weaknesses that everyone knew we had and thought would be addressed in the offseason but weren't come back to haunt us yet again.

Like Fucking Ground Hog Day.


This sure beats the heck out of the Phils, Flyers and 6ers though wink.gif
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