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Zero
The Eagles are among the top teams in the NFL, but without a good dose of luck they aren't a championship team. They need to strengthen the secondary and, maybe QB.

The defense has really surprised this year. They've improved almost every game, had a shutout and can play well enough to beat most any team. The problem comes when they play against the elite QBs and that's what they'll need to do to win the big game. Are they one safety and one CB away?

Can Nick Foles 2013 win a Super Bowl? Would he have been enough to win against Seattle? If he could have won Sunday, we don't need a QB because it's not likely they'll play a better defense. If Cole had maintained discipline on Wilson's keeper TD would that have been enough for a competent offense to win that game? Would Foles 2013 have made them a competent offense?

Not knowing who will be available in March, a CB and S could be had in FA. As Mikey Numbers will tell us, there's enough money in the vault.
mcnabbulous
2013 Nick Foles couldn't beat the Saints.
CT_Eagle
I don't really consider the Eagles a top team in the NFL. Those teams to me are GB, Sea and NE. Maybe Den though I am on the fence about them.

The Eagles are at the top of that 2nd tier of teams and just a few players away from making the jump into the upper echelon. I think you nailed two of the biggest needs, S and CB. I would also like to see the Eagles add a deep threat at WR. Maclin is great but I don't think he strikes fear into opposing defenses. A speedster plus Maclin and Mathews is a damn good WR corps. A group of WRs like that would force teams to defend either the pass or the run. Very few defenses would be able to defend both consistently.

With regards to Foles, I am not sure yet. I pushed very hard for him to be the starter last year and he delivered far beyond anyone's wildest expectations. He took a step back this year while he was healthy. Was it a sophomore slump? O-line issues? No running game? I don't know. I would make him the starter as soon as he is healthy and give him the nod in training camp next year regardless how this year pans out. If by the middle of next season he is not getting the job done, it will be time to look at the QB position after next season.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 9 2014, 11:42 AM) *
I don't really consider the Eagles a top team in the NFL. Those teams to me are GB, Sea and NE. Maybe Den though I am on the fence about them.

The Eagles are at the top of that 2nd tier of teams and just a few players away from making the jump into the upper echelon. I think you nailed two of the biggest needs, S and CB. I would also like to see the Eagles add a deep threat at WR. Maclin is great but I don't think he strikes fear into opposing defenses. A speedster plus Maclin and Mathews is a damn good WR corps. A group of WRs like that would force teams to defend either the pass or the run. Very few defenses would be able to defend both consistently.

With regards to Foles, I am not sure yet. I pushed very hard for him to be the starter last year and he delivered far beyond anyone's wildest expectations. He took a step back this year while he was healthy. Was it a sophomore slump? O-line issues? No running game? I don't know. I would make him the starter as soon as he is healthy and give him the nod in training camp next year regardless how this year pans out. If by the middle of next season he is not getting the job done, it will be time to look at the QB position after next season.


Almost 100% agreed. It's all but certain Denver or NE will play GB or Seattle in the Super Bowl. I would put us in the middle of the pack of the 2nd tier of teams, but certainly we're a piece or two away from making the leap. Another year of experience, running the system, and hopefully not making shitty defensive draft picks and we could be looking at a SB run.
mcnabbulous
Denver, NE, GB, and Seattle all have the same thing in common. And we have Nick Foles.

If we had a QB, our CB and Safety concerns would be non-issues.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 05:58 PM) *
Denver, NE, GB, and Seattle all have the same thing in common. And we have Nick Foles.

If we had a QB, our CB and Safety concerns would be non-issues.



They would still be an issue. How did Peyton and the Denver D do against Sea in the SB last year? Peyton did not protect that defense and it was abused on the biggest stage in football. The Eagles still need to upgrade those positions.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 9 2014, 11:19 AM) *
They would still be an issue. How did Peyton and the Denver D do against Sea in the SB last year? Peyton did not protect that defense and it was abused on the biggest stage in football. The Eagles still need to upgrade those positions.

Sure, they need to upgrade them. I completely agree with that. If we were getting great QB play, it would be dramatically mitigated.

Peyton got destroyed in the big game, but his team is a real competitor because of him. Not because of their corners or safeties (only one of which I can name off-hand).
JeeQ
I know it's like beating a dead horse here but I'd bet every cent I own that the run game is suffering this season because DeSean isn't stretching the defense anymore.

Coaches used to talk publicly about the difficulty in deciding "Do we try to stop DeSean or McCoy?"... Now that question has a definite answer every game "Let's stop McCoy". Maclin has played his best season without question, but he's still not a DeSean Jackson. The top defensive players in this league have gone on record multiple times this season and said 'The Eagles miss DeSean Jackson"... it was a step back for absolutely no reason and I still can't get past it when I have to hear all the top teams throw it in our face after beating us every time.

DeSean put up 157 yards & a TD on Seattle... the entire Eagles offense put up 139 yards total
Phits
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 9 2014, 04:35 PM) *
I know it's like beating a dead horse here but I'd bet every cent I own that the run game is suffering this season because DeSean isn't stretching the defense anymore.

Coaches used to talk publicly about the difficulty in deciding "Do we try to stop DeSean or McCoy?"... Now that question has a definite answer every game "Let's stop McCoy". Maclin has played his best season without question, but he's still not a DeSean Jackson. The top defensive players in this league have gone on record multiple times this season and said 'The Eagles miss DeSean Jackson"... it was a step back for absolutely no reason and I still can't get past it when I have to hear all the top teams throw it in our face after beating us every time.

DeSean put up 157 yards & a TD on Seattle... the entire Eagles offense put up 139 yards total

Maybe that's why Alfred Morris is about to set a career low in rushing yards and DeSean is going to struggle to break 1000 yards.

Maclin is the better receiver. F*ck Richard Sherman.

The difference between last season and this season is the continuity in our offensive line and poor quarterback play. Maclin has replaced DeSean's production....1100 yards and counting
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Maybe that's why Alfred Morris is about to set a career low in rushing yards and DeSean is going to struggle to break 1000 yards.


Are you even being serious?! He has 942 yards with 3 games left. Even with missing the last game, he'll likely push 1200 yards, especially facing the rest of the NFC East for the rest of the way.

QUOTE
Maclin is the better receiver. F*ck Richard Sherman.


No he isn't, that's ridiculous. I'll take not only Sherman's word over yours, I'll take everything we've seen on the field this year and the past as evidence.

QUOTE
Maclin has replaced DeSean's production....1100 yards and counting


On what planet is this considered sound math?! We had BOTH of them. If Maclin had 2,000 yards and 15 Td's at this point I'd agree.

We cut a Pro-Bowl WR for nothing, arguably the best deep threat in the entire league. And we got absolutely nothing in return. I'd love to stop talking about this, as JeeQ would I'm sure, but we can't because there are still people like you who deny that this was a huge mistake by the FO. Obviously Maclin isn't a deep threat, and Cooper has been exposed as a lackluster (to be nice) #2. Stop trying to defend it.


HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 9 2014, 04:35 PM) *
Coaches used to talk publicly about the difficulty in deciding "Do we try to stop DeSean or McCoy?"


Not to mention we signed Sproles before releasing DJax. Having him, Maclin, Ertz, McCoy, and Sproles on the field at the same time? We were thinking a historic offensive season.
mcnabbulous
My biggest frustration with the DJax argument is the idea that Maclin is a replacement for him. They didn't choose Maclin over DJax. They chose Cooper over him. Desean is averaging 20 ypc despite playing with a broken RG3, Cousins, and Colt McCoy.

I can't believe people are still trying to argue his excellence.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 9 2014, 05:47 PM) *
Are you even being serious?! He has 942 yards with 3 games left. Even with missing the last game, he'll likely push 1200 yards, especially facing the rest of the NFC East for the rest of the way.

According to NFL.COM he has 899 yards. which is roughly 70 ypg. At that pace he will have 1100 yards on the season, which happens to be a career low.

QUOTE
No he isn't, that's ridiculous. I'll take not only Sherman's word over yours, I'll take everything we've seen on the field this year and the past as evidence.

On what planet is this considered sound math?! We had BOTH of them. If Maclin had 2,000 yards and 15 Td's at this point I'd agree.

DeSean had 1300 yards receiving last season. Maclin is on pace for the same this season.

QUOTE
We cut a Pro-Bowl WR for nothing, arguably the best deep threat in the entire league. And we got absolutely nothing in return. I'd love to stop talking about this, as JeeQ would I'm sure, but we can't because there are still people like you who deny that this was a huge mistake by the FO. Obviously Maclin isn't a deep threat, and Cooper has been exposed as a lackluster (to be nice) #2. Stop trying to defend it.

Maclin is 8th in the league with catches of 20+ yards (17). Jackson is 17th (13). Maclin is 8th in the league YAC (410), Jackson is 18th (361). Maclin has 47 first downs. Jackson has 29. Maclin plays on a team whose QB's (collectively) lead the league in INT's.

As for the FO making a mistake, I'll take Chip Kelly's assessment over yours.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 06:40 PM) *
My biggest frustration with the DJax argument is the idea that Maclin is a replacement for him. They didn't choose Maclin over DJax. They chose Cooper over him. Desean is averaging 20 ypc despite playing with a broken RG3, Cousins, and Colt McCoy.

I can't believe people are still trying to argue his excellence.

They didn't choose anybody over DeSean. They chose to cut the cancer out before it spread. They recognized that his performance could be replaced in this system.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 9 2014, 07:28 PM) *
According to NFL.COM he has 899 yards. which is roughly 70 ypg. At that pace he will have 1100 yards on the season, which happens to be a career low.


I was referring to DJax. I don't care about Morris, because he wasn't on our team and cut for no reason for absolutely nothing in return.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 9 2014, 07:35 PM) *
They recognized that his performance could be replaced in this system.


And they recognized wrong, as he hasn't made up for a #1 receiver in this system gaining an additional 1,300 yards to his production.

*edit - and that's apart from what he does for the running game with his presence on the field.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 9 2014, 07:55 PM) *
And they recognized wrong, as he hasn't made up for a #1 receiver in this system gaining an additional 1,300 yards to his production.

*edit - and that's apart from what he does for the running game with his presence on the field.

Macin is the #1 receiver. He has made up for the loss of DJax. Add Sproles to the mix and DJax is a long forgotten memory....

*edit - Jackson's addition to the skinz has resulted in them being 22nd (overall) in rush yards and the worst statistical season of Morris' career
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 9 2014, 08:16 PM) *
Macin is the #1 receiver. He has made up for the loss of DJax. Add Sproles to the mix and DJax is a long forgotten memory....

*edit - Jackson's addition to the skinz has resulted in them being 22nd (overall) in rush yards and the worst statistical season of Morris' career

The RG3 factor has contributed to Morris' decline (or previous success depending on how you look at it).

Maclin is our #1 receiver, but we don't have a #2. That didn't have to be the case.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 09:14 AM) *
2013 Nick Foles couldn't beat the Saints.


Not true, 2013 D couldn't stop NO from running the ball and eating up the 4th quarter clock, Foles gave us a lead and never had a chance after that since they scored with no time on the clock.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Dec 9 2014, 09:40 PM) *
Not true, 2013 D couldn't stop NO from running the ball and eating up the 4th quarter clock, Foles gave us a lead and never had a chance after that since they scored with no time on the clock.

We have a different interpretation of how that game played out. Foles left tons of plays/points on the field that evening. He played not to lose. We couldn't afford that time of performance against a quality offense like NO.

The Saints shouldn't have been in a position to march down the field and win the game.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 11:27 PM) *
We have a different interpretation of how that game played out. Foles left tons of plays/points on the field that evening. He played not to lose. We couldn't afford that time of performance against a quality offense like NO.

The Saints shouldn't have been in a position to march down the field and win the game.


Your view is speculative and based on how you interpreted the game, my point is a FACT. You cannot say 'he could not beat them' if he gave us a lead and never had another chance after they took the lead, the game ended with the D on the field. Now in McNabb's SB he had a chance to win it and failed, can't say it about Foles because he left plays or points on the field, that has nothing to do with how it ended. If you knew enough about logic and argument you would admit you have an unsupported premise.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 11:27 PM) *
We have a different interpretation of how that game played out. Foles left tons of plays/points on the field that evening. He played not to lose. We couldn't afford that time of performance against a quality offense like NO.

The Saints shouldn't have been in a position to march down the field and win the game.

Have to agree with Birdwatcher on this. We don't know what would have happened if the second year QB playing in his first playoff game were given another chance with the offense.

Therein is the story of Foles: unknown. He's still very young. He may be a very good backup, a serviceable starter or a QB who can lead a team to a SB win. Young. Unknown.
HobbEs
On a different note the Cowboys are coming to town...
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 9 2014, 10:09 PM) *
The RG3 factor has contributed to Morris' decline (or previous success depending on how you look at it).

Another board poster intimated that DeSean's mere presence elevates a teams running game, to the point that he converts talented RB's into All-Pro's. That poster fails to take into account the fact that o-line and good QB play have more effect than a speedy WR.

QUOTE
Maclin is our #1 receiver, but we don't have a #2.

Jordan Matthews has 56 catches and 709 receiving yards. Whatever Riley Cooper was supposed to be is irrelevant. Matthews has established himself as the #2 and (potentially) future #1.
CT_Eagle
I don't think you can simply look at the numbers Maclin is putting up and compare them to what DJax put up in the past and say Jackson's numbers have been replaced. Jackson brought something to the Eagles that no other WR currently on the roster brings, the ability to stretch the field vertically. Stretching the field provides more space for RBs, TEs and other WRs to work underneath. There is little doubt in my mind that having Jackson here, along with Maclin and Mathews, would have resulted in better numbers from the RBs and TEs this season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 10 2014, 05:17 AM) *
Have to agree with Birdwatcher on this.

Of course, people have been making excuses for his performance in that game all year smile.gif

QUOTE
We don't know what would have happened if the second year QB playing in his first playoff game were given another chance with the offense.

Of course not -- But I'm not worried about some hypothetical drive. I can reference the 10 previous drives when he averaged 5.91 yards per attempt (compared to his regular season 9.1 or even 7.0 this year despite being very mediocre).

QUOTE
Therein is the story of Foles: unknown. He's still very young. He may be a very good backup, a serviceable starter or a QB who can lead a team to a SB win. Young. Unknown.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Last season appears to be an aberration where Chip's scheme had caught much of the league off guard. Foles is just a guy. A Matt Schaub type.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 10 2014, 10:09 AM) *
There is little doubt in my mind that having Jackson here, along with Maclin and Mathews, would have resulted in better numbers from the RBs and TEs this season.

This is the big thing.

We could have DJax, Maclin, and Matthews.

Instead, we have Maclin, Cooper, and Matthews. It didn't have to be that way.

The reality is that great coaches make it work with "headaches." Belichick had great success with guys like Moss and Corey Dillon. The Ravens have multiple Super Bowls with their cast of criminals.

DJax is a pain in the ass, but he's not a bad dude. We could have and should have made it work.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 12:40 PM) *
This is the big thing.

We could have DJax, Maclin, and Matthews.

Instead, we have Maclin, Cooper, and Matthews. It didn't have to be that way.

The reality is that great coaches make it work with "headaches." Belichick had great success with guys like Moss and Corey Dillon. The Ravens have multiple Super Bowls with their cast of criminals.

DJax is a pain in the ass, but he's not a bad dude. We could have and should have made it work.


But But But Desean is a "locker room cancer"!!!! He isn't a "high character player" !!!! He's not the right "Culture fit"!!!!!

</sarcasm>
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 10 2014, 11:09 AM) *
I don't think you can simply look at the numbers Maclin is putting up and compare them to what DJax put up in the past and say Jackson's numbers have been replaced. Jackson brought something to the Eagles that no other WR currently on the roster brings, the ability to stretch the field vertically. Stretching the field provides more space for RBs, TEs and other WRs to work underneath. There is little doubt in my mind that having Jackson here, along with Maclin and Mathews, would have resulted in better numbers from the RBs and TEs this season.


Yes. As anyone can see, and as several pros who manhandled us have mentioned. But some DJax haters have made up their minds, are grasping at any straw they can to back up their non-point (Morris's production?!), and dammit we ain't changing their minds.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 10 2014, 11:09 AM) *
There is little doubt in my mind that having Jackson here, along with Maclin and Mathews, would have resulted in better numbers from the RBs and TEs this season.

There is little doubt in my mind that better QB play and a healthy o-line would result in better numbers from RBs & TEs this season.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 05:24 PM) *
There is little doubt in my mind that better QB play and a healthy o-line would result in better numbers from RBs & TEs this season.


I agree.

One does not preclude the other.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 11:40 AM) *
The reality is that great coaches make it work with "headaches." Belichick had great success with guys like Moss and Corey Dillon. The Ravens have multiple Super Bowls with their cast of criminals.

Great coaches also assert their idea of team culture, even at the expense of personnel. Great coaches make their system work, even in the perceived absence of talent.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 11:30 AM) *
Great coaches also assert their idea of team culture, even at the expense of personnel. Great coaches make their system work, even in the perceived absence of talent.

Having a scheme work does not necessarily equate to championships. We are less equipped to win a championship as a result of DJax's departure. That's what this comes down to.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 12:48 PM) *
We are less equipped to win a championship as a result of DJax's departure.

How so? Despite the problems at QB and the injuries at o-line, the offense really hasn't missed a beat. Besides, look how well all of that WR talent has helped San Diego and Chicago.

Bottom line is that our QB play has been mediocre. Had they played well, this offense would be flying. That has nothing to do with DJax.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 12:25 PM) *
How so? Despite the problems at QB and the injuries at o-line, the offense really hasn't missed a beat. Besides, look how well all of that WR talent has helped San Diego and Chicago.

You keep talking about our offense not missing a beat. Did we win a SB last year? Did we even win a playoff game.

We needed to be better. Leaps and bounds better than we were last year. We aren't. San Diego and Chicago have nothing to do with us.

QUOTE
Bottom line is that our QB play has been mediocre. Had they played well, this offense would be flying. That has nothing to do with DJax.

Yes, our QB play is mediocre because we have mediocre QBs. There wasn't an upgrade opportunity at QB. We had an opportunity for a monumental upgrade at WR. DJax, Maclin and Matthews. Instead, we stayed roughly the same.

So we're about just as talented as we were last year. Which was good enough for a playoff loss, at home, to a pretty decent Saints team. Which is about the floor on where we can go this year. Our ceiling isn't much higher. Because we "haven't missed a beat" on offense.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 06:25 PM) *
How so? Despite the problems at QB and the injuries at o-line, the offense really hasn't missed a beat. Besides, look how well all of that WR talent has helped San Diego and Chicago.

Bottom line is that our QB play has been mediocre. Had they played well, this offense would be flying. That has nothing to do with DJax.


First, the offense is flying. It was awful versus Seattle but it is one of the best offenses in the league overall.

To answer your question, the offense is not as well equipped because the offense cannot challenge teams vertically as well as it could last year. It is one less pressure point that Chip can apply. Sometimes stretching a defense vertically is necessary in order to open up underneath for the running backs, TEs and WRs running slants. The Seattle game is the perfect example of when a vertical threat could have made a difference. None of this means that better QB play is not beneficial. It just means that the Eagles are missing a tool that they had last year.

It is not an either or situation. A vertical threat would improve the offense and better QB play would also improve the offense. Having both would improve the offense that much more.
mcnabbulous
I can't recall this being mentioned here, but the situation reminds me of our decision to cut Trotter prior to the 2002 season. Our 2002 defense was statistically as good as the previous season, but we unnecessarily downgraded our talent and were forced to rely on a past-his-prime Levon Kirkland in the playoffs.

It was a foolish move then and it was a foolish move this past offseason. You don't cut uber-talented football players in their mid-20's and improve as a team.

Trotter subsequently went to the Skins, provided little to no impact, then returned to Philly two years later and helped lead us to a SB appearance.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 01:39 PM) *
You keep talking about our offense not missing a beat. Did we win a SB last year? Did we even win a playoff game.

We were the #4 offense last season and are the #4 offense this season. That's not missing a beat. Our problems are at QB. A Desean Jackson doesn't help with that issue.

QUOTE
So we're about just as talented as we were last year. Which was good enough for a playoff loss, at home, to a pretty decent Saints team. Which is about the floor on where we can go this year. Our ceiling isn't much higher. Because we "haven't missed a beat" on offense.

The #1 offense was crushed by the #1 defense in the Superbowl. We are better defensively, which is really where the work needs to be done. Offense isn't our problem (QB mediocrity aside).
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 07:13 PM) *
Our problems are at QB. A Desean Jackson doesn't help with that issue.



I have to disagree with this statement. Having a deep threat like Desean Jackson does help a QB. See my post above about stretching the field. Receivers underneath the safeties will get open more frequently if a safety has to drop back in order to stay on top of a Jackson type of receiver. More open receivers on short underneath routes gives the QB easier reads which would lead to better QB play.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 01:13 PM) *
We were the #4 offense last season and are the #4 offense this season. That's not missing a beat. Our problems are at QB. A Desean Jackson doesn't help with that issue.

I'll reiterate. We didn't have an opportunity to upgrade at QB. We could have done so at WR.


QUOTE
The #1 offense was crushed by the #1 defense in the Superbowl. We are better defensively, which is really where the work needs to be done. Offense isn't our problem (QB mediocrity aside).

The #1 defense also had Russell Wilson. In case you didn't have an opportunity to watch the game this weekend, he's very good.

Unfortunately, we don't have a great defense. We need our offense to be even greater than they were last year. "not missing a beat" doesn't cut it.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 10 2014, 01:41 PM) *
To answer your question, the offense is not as well equipped because the offense cannot challenge teams vertically as well as it could last year. It is one less pressure point that Chip can apply. Sometimes stretching a defense vertically is necessary in order to open up underneath for the running backs, TEs and WRs running slants. The Seattle game is the perfect example of when a vertical threat could have made a difference. None of this means that better QB play is not beneficial. It just means that the Eagles are missing a tool that they had last year.

Maclin is a deep threat. He may not be DeSean Jackson fast, but he is no slouch. Maclin is #8 in the league for 20+ yard catches. The TE's have been pre-occupied with the blocking assignments that they have been forced into with the o-line injuries. McCoy is having a down year, from last season but he is still the #4 ranked RB in yards and #5 in Yds/G.

-DeSean Jackson

+Jeremy Maclin
+Darren Sproles
+Jordan Matthews

I believe that they have more than made up for his absence on the roster.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 01:54 PM) *
I can't recall this being mentioned here, but the situation reminds me of our decision to cut Trotter prior to the 2002 season.


I was actually about to mention that, I'm sure one of us brought it up back when DJax was released, but it's certainly worth bringing up again.

Trotter was voted defensive MVP by his teammates in that great 2001 defense. He wanted $6 million a year, and the Eagles thought he was worth $4, or something like that. The Walrus (who everyone was calling a genius/our savior at the time, remember?) decided he didn't want to deal with him anymore, and our Pro-Bowl defensive MVP was released for nothing.

We still had a very good albeit downgraded defense, and still made it to the NFCCG - where we all got to see our LB's eat Joe Jurevicius's dust on a 75 yard dash. That play changed the whole game, and there's no doubt Trotter would've made that play. In 2002 he was as good as Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

Chip, like Reid, thought his 'brilliance' would overcome talent on the field. We paid for it then, and we're paying for it now, especially when we face a good defense in the playoffs.

Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 10 2014, 02:22 PM) *
Unfortunately, we don't have a great defense. We need our offense to be even greater than they were last year. "not missing a beat" doesn't cut it.

How did that great Denver offense do in the SB?

When I say "Not missing a beat" it means that we are a high octane offense who can move the ball (virtually) at will and put up a lot of points. Our lackluster QB play and o-line injuries affect our ability to do so. It's not in the skilled positions.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 08:22 PM) *
Maclin is a deep threat. He may not be DeSean Jackson fast, but he is no slouch. Maclin is #8 in the league for 20+ yard catches. The TE's have been pre-occupied with the blocking assignments that they have been forced into with the o-line injuries. McCoy is having a down year, from last season but he is still the #4 ranked RB in yards and #5 in Yds/G.

-DeSean Jackson

+Jeremy Maclin
+Darren Sproles
+Jordan Matthews

I believe that they have more than made up for his absence on the roster.



You are looking at this as if it is a zero sum game. It is not. What is better?

+Jeremy Maclin
+Darren Sproles
+Jordan Matthews

or

+Jeremy Maclin
+Darren Sproles
+Jordan Matthews
+Desean Jackson
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 02:16 AM) *
Macin is the #1 receiver. He has made up for the loss of DJax. Add Sproles to the mix and DJax is a long forgotten memory....

*edit - Jackson's addition to the skinz has resulted in them being 22nd (overall) in rush yards and the worst statistical season of Morris' career



QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 02:56 PM) *
Another board poster intimated that DeSean's mere presence elevates a teams running game, to the point that he converts talented RB's into All-Pro's. That poster fails to take into account the fact that o-line and good QB play have more effect than a speedy WR.


Jordan Matthews has 56 catches and 709 receiving yards. Whatever Riley Cooper was supposed to be is irrelevant. Matthews has established himself as the #2 and (potentially) future #1.



QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 05:24 PM) *
There is little doubt in my mind that better QB play and a healthy o-line would result in better numbers from RBs & TEs this season.

Why are you using facts to counter opinions?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 10 2014, 01:27 PM) *
How did that great Denver offense do in the SB?

What does this have to do with us? We don't have Peyton Manning or Russell Wilson.

They struggled against a great defense. Does that mean we shouldn't try to maximize our talent and just lay down, because the Seahawks defense is great?

For the life of me, I can't figure out what point you're trying to make here.

QUOTE
When I say "Not missing a beat" it means that we are a high octane offense who can move the ball (virtually) at will and put up a lot of points. Our lackluster QB play and o-line injuries affect our ability to do so. It's not in the skilled positions.

It's the whole offense. It's not as good as it needs to be in games against opponents like that. Our WR's struggled mightily against the Seahawks. The all-22 tape shows that. There were a few missed opportunities, but they were few and far between. Desean put up 161 yards against them.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 10 2014, 01:25 PM) *
I was actually about to mention that, I'm sure one of us brought it up back when DJax was released, but it's certainly worth bringing up again.

Trotter was voted defensive MVP by his teammates in that great 2001 defense. He wanted $6 million a year, and the Eagles thought he was worth $4, or something like that. The Walrus (who everyone was calling a genius/our savior at the time, remember?) decided he didn't want to deal with him anymore, and our Pro-Bowl defensive MVP was released for nothing.

We still had a very good albeit downgraded defense, and still made it to the NFCCG - where we all got to see our LB's eat Joe Jurevicius's dust on a 75 yard dash. That play changed the whole game, and there's no doubt Trotter would've made that play. In 2002 he was as good as Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

Chip, like Reid, thought his 'brilliance' would overcome talent on the field. We paid for it then, and we're paying for it now, especially when we face a good defense in the playoffs.

Agreed with all of this. The "brilliance" overcoming talent was my thought at the time. I suspect I posted it too.

It's great in theory, but the NFL has proven time and time again that talent is key.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 10 2014, 08:35 PM) *
Why are you using facts to counter opinions?



I don't know Eyrie, the only facts I see listed are

1. Maclin is the #1 receiver
2. The Skinz are 22 overall in rushing yards
3. This is Morris' worst statistical season
4. Jordan Mathews has 56 catches and 709 receiving yards

None of these facts support the opinion that this offense would not be better if Jackson were still here.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 10 2014, 12:13 PM) *
Yes. As anyone can see, and as several pros who manhandled us have mentioned. But some DJax haters have made up their minds, are grasping at any straw they can to back up their non-point (Morris's production?!), and dammit we ain't changing their minds.


Conversely, Djax athletic supporters consider him to be the lynch pin of last year's success and anything that might dispute that is ignored. So damn it they aren't changing their minds either. Look, at best there is a possibility that keeping DJax would have made a difference, but there is no way to prove it. He has not improved the Skins and the Eagles have a better record than this time last year, which can support the view that opposes yours. So it comes down to who believes what, and both sides have arguments, but none of them are indisputable. Can't we just let it go at this point and accept that we will never know for sure?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 10 2014, 02:41 PM) *
I don't know Eyrie, the only facts I see listed are

1. Maclin is the #1 receiver
2. The Skinz are 22 overall in rushing yards
3. This is Morris' worst statistical season
4. Jordan Mathews has 56 catches and 709 receiving yards

None of these facts support the opinion that this offense would not be better if Jackson were still here.


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