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mcnabbulous
This year at least...

As most predicted, Sanchez couldn't play any worse than Foles and he's definitively been better across the board.

Eagles’ Drives by QB – This Season

Pts per drive
Foles - 1.7
Sanchez - 2.4
Red zone effic
Foles - 35%
Sanchez - 52%
Score pct
Foles - 33%
Sanchez - 47%
TO pct
Foles - 19%
Sanchez - 15%

QUOTE
But why is Sanchez doing better?
Sanchez may be working the Chip Kelly offense more to design than Foles had been this season. Sanchez is getting rid of the ball quicker, throwing shorter and getting more yards after the catch than Foles was.


Source
mcnabbulous
Here is another nice all-22 read on Sanchez's increasing comfort with the zone-read and it's impact on the running game:

http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/12/...otball-sanchez/
JaxEagle
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What took you so long?

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mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 3 2014, 12:31 PM) *
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What took you so long?

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Waiting for a sufficient sample size and analysis of his play. Unlike most people around here, my opinion on things can be swayed by tangible evidence that conflicts with my original opinion.

Foles was awful this year. Sanchez has been better. Can't imagine him beating Rodgers in the playoffs (especially in GB) but I think he gives us a best chance to go deep into the playoffs.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Waiting for a sufficient sample size and analysis of his play.


Clearly you aren't.

QUOTE
Unlike most people around here, my opinion on things can be swayed by tangible evidence that conflicts with my original opinion.




Their stats have been almost eerily similar. Take away the garbage yards/td's in the GB game after it had already been decided, and their passer ratings would probably be within a couple points of each other. The difference is now our o-line is healthy, and Chip seems to have remembered we have an All-Pro RB.

Like I said earlier, if Sanchez comes out there on Sunday and beats Seattle, I'll throw everything I said out the window and give him my support for the rest of the season. However, I would wager that his stats will take a dip this week. For now, when Foles is healthy I say stick him right back in there.
mcnabbulous
Hey look, it's Desean getting "shut down" by the Saints.



Phits
QUOTE
Sanchez has faced slightly worse competition, but that probably doesn't account for the discrepancies elsewhere. Foles benefited from a ridiculous seven non-offensive touchdowns during the first six weeks of the season, but the Eagles offense has averaged almost an extra touchdown per game on offense with Sanchez under center.

Under Sanchez, the offense has put up 29 or more points four times out of five. Foles reached that mark only twice and was in somewhat of a rut before suffering that broken clavicle. In fact, he too had thrown two picks in three of four games before getting hurt.


LINK
nephillymike
A warning for Sunday.

Seattle defense brings opposing QB rating down on average by 9%.

That would bring Sanchez down to 81, which is where Foles was YTD, which is lower tier.

Basing your opinion on how he plays Sunday is misleading. We may win, but it won't be pretty from the QB.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Basing your opinion on how he plays Sunday is misleading.


Good thing I'm not doing that then. I said if he beats Seattle I'll say he's earned the rest of the season. I know he probably won't win, in fact I don't even expect much of a close game. He's the #2, and should be considered that if Foles is healthy.

What's misleading is declaring him the savior of the city after beating Carolina. Or claiming he's been better after being the beneficiary of a healthy o-line and good gameplans, still having almost identical numbers to Foles. Let him pass 62 times against Seattle and some of the people here will want to put Matt Barkley in.

Posting disingenuous articles written by hacks like Brad Gagnon is misleading.

QUOTE
We may win, but it won't be pretty from the QB.


No shit. If you're expecting an ugly QB performance at the very sight of a good defense, why the hell are all the bipolar fans here planning the championship parade?!
mcnabbulous
We are going to win on Sunday
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2014, 10:28 AM) *
We are going to win on Sunday


I sure hope so.
JeeQ
When McNabb said Foles wasn't a franchise QB he was crucified... so funny how things turn out

In fact... McNabb is going on a 100% prediction streak lately

Nick Foles isn't a franchise QB... check (Foles may not even be on the team next season)
Mark Sanchez will excel in Kelly's offense... check
Jay Cutler doesn't deserve 100 Million dollars.... 100 million checks
Jason Garett should be fired... possible check after another 8-8 season rolls in

But please do, keep hating on everything McNabb does or says, it just wouldn't be right if you weren't
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 4 2014, 09:30 AM) *
Good thing I'm not doing that then. I said if he beats Seattle I'll say he's earned the rest of the season. I know he probably won't win, in fact I don't even expect much of a close game. He's the #2, and should be considered that if Foles is healthy.

What's misleading is declaring him the savior of the city after beating Carolina. Or claiming he's been better after being the beneficiary of a healthy o-line and good gameplans, still having almost identical numbers to Foles. Let him pass 62 times against Seattle and some of the people here will want to put Matt Barkley in.

Posting disingenuous articles written by hacks like Brad Gagnon is misleading.



No shit. If you're expecting an ugly QB performance at the very sight of a good defense, why the hell are all the bipolar fans here planning the championship parade?!

So you are saying if Sanchez wins this game Sunday with a mediocre at best 80 qb rating, you give him the rest of the season? Just win baby? What about a worse game but with a win on the back of stellar ST play?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 4 2014, 07:18 PM) *
So you are saying if Sanchez wins this game Sunday with a mediocre at best 80 qb rating, you give him the rest of the season? Just win baby? What about a worse game but with a win on the back of stellar ST play?


I don't think that's realistic. In order to beat Seattle, we MUST put up offensive points. If he ends up with an 80 QB rating, I don't think we can possibly win the game, so I can't really answer your question definitively. If we hypothetically were to score a bunch of D/ST points and squeak out a win, I guess I'd have to support him for the sake of team psychology, beating the defending champs and opening up a run down the stretch to a likely first round bye. But I think the game will come down to Sanchez's turnovers, or lack of them. I'd give McCoy, Sproles, and Polk a heavy dose of work the likes of which they haven't seen yet this year.

On a side note, if there's one thing I had to complain about against Dallas, we both agree that having McCoy and Sproles on the field more often is a good idea. They only did that once against Dallas - the defense had no freaking clue what to expect, and it resulted in a simple screen to Sproles for a 9 yard gain and a first down in the red zone. If rotation is the concern, certainly Polk has proven he can handle some carries while they rest. I don't understand why they can't throw them out there together a lot more frequently, giving defenses nightmares.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 4 2014, 06:44 PM) *
In order to beat Seattle, we MUST put up offensive points.

How many points? Seattle's offense isn't very good. I think we can win with 24 points. Maybe less if we don't have many mistakes.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2014, 07:49 PM) *
How many points? Seattle's offense isn't very good. I think we can win with 24 points. Maybe less if we don't have many mistakes.


I agree, if we put up 24 offensive points I think we win.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 4 2014, 08:24 PM) *
I agree, if we put up 24 offensive points I think we win.

I don't know why they have to be offensive points. All points count the same.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2014, 09:41 PM) *
I don't know why they have to be offensive points. All points count the same.


Yeah, I just don't think we're scoring defensive or special teams points. The offense has to be productive against their defense to win.
nephillymike
From what I've heard, Seattle has one of the worst ST. I think we can expect our ST to play a big factor.

I can only assume Chip is saving the" Shady-Sproles combo" for when we really need it. He's too smart to abandon that lethal weapon. I heard Polk didn't suit up for some practices this week but not sure why.

Sherman doesn't switch sides. I put Cooper over there the entire game and be done with him. I know Maclin normally likes Sherman's side, but I change it for this game, no question.
Zero
Playing against that defense I'd expect Chip to have some different things going on.
nephillymike
As to the Foles vs. Sanchez debate, it is still an open competition for me.

I kept on waiting for Foles to regain most of the success he had last year and he never did. On the other hand, I am holding my breath hoping that Sanchez does not revert to what his career had been before he got here, a dismal career. So far so good his old form has not resurfaced.

So we had one guy who had the best passer rating ever over the first sixteen starts of his career vs the guy who had one of the worst career passer rating for anyone who had as many starts as he had. I didn't think there would be any question as to who our QB should be.

Coming into this year I had a huge bias towards Foles and against Sanchez. Sanchez play in the preseason was a pleasant surprise but it was preseason. Foles play this year was a big concern. I was about ready to give Sanchez a chance and was giving Foles one more game to turn it around and then the injury happened.

In trying to be fair and objective, here's what I see:

- Sanchez gets rid of the ball quicker and makes good reads. Foles' is a slower decision and his decision making was not nearly as crisp. He didn't throw it to open guys as quickly and I think he left a lot on the field.

- Sanchez has better pocket awareness. There have only been one or two instances where Sanchez back pedaled away from pressure. He steps up into the pocket and moves laterally well. Stepping up into the pocket allows Sanchez to throw with better mechanics as compared to Foles back pedal, off the back foot throws.

- I am not big on mobile QB's. To me, give me a guy who stays in the pocket, sees the field and puts the ball where it needs to go over any of these modern running QB's. That being said, having a QB with decent speed allows those QB bootlegs and keepers in this offense to be effective and enhances what Shady can do. Running a few times up the middle for a few yards when things break down is nice. A pet peeve of mine, Sanchez knows how to #$%^ slide as opposed to those flops Foles and Vick seemed to do too often. I like my QB to master the slide that every ten year old who ever played baseball for me knew how to do. I know, I expect too much but like I said, a pet peeve.

- I think Foles has the better skill set. My concern about Sanchez is that his limitations in the type of throws he can make will limit our offense and make us easier to defend. He can't throw a good bomb nor the deep out the way we need him to. He could be Jeff Garcia. Jeff was great for us, but his limitations hurt us in that NO playoff game as there were a lot of opportunities we couldn't take advantage of because of his limitations. Foles can make all the throws. If he is thinking fast enough and pulling the trigger like he should, Foles is the better talent and his throwing talent trumps his lack of mobility. However, there is no excuse for pocket stupidity and he has not corrected that this year. Marino could slide and move in the pocket, Foles should be able to.

- Sanchez will struggle this Sunday, like any QB would against this D, but I still think this game is winnable and I expect us to win, but win ugly. There will be plenty of ammo for the pro and anti Sanchez folks after this one. The QB job won't be won or lost Sunday.

- For me, I'm not making any bold proclamations on QB for the rest of the year. One game at a time and go from there. As of now, from what I have seen to date, Sanchez has played better than Foles and I'm hopeful that he can play at a "system enhanced" above average for the rest of the way. This week will be tough, but closing with DAL, NYG and WAS defenses should provide plenty of opportunities.

It should be a fun ride. I'll save my QB controversies until the last game of the year, if then.
mcnabbulous
Good, fair analysis Mikey. I wasn't as high on Foles as most but didn't expect him to bust out. Had no expectations for Sanchez but he performed well in the preseason. Don't care who wins. Just want to win.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 5 2014, 06:15 AM) *
Sherman doesn't switch sides. I put Cooper over there the entire game and be done with him. I know Maclin normally likes Sherman's side, but I change it for this game, no question.


I'd love to hear some of the banter between Sherman and Cooper if they end up going at it all day.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 6 2014, 01:38 PM) *
I'd love to hear some of the banter between Sherman and Cooper if they end up going at it all day.

Some topics of conversation,

Current events of police brutality.

Country music, video camera and alcohol, good together?

Michael Crabtree, a good WR?

Should dread lock pulling be a penalty?

Humility, is it really a virtue?

Are substitutions impacted by contract status?

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 6 2014, 03:22 PM) *
Some topics of conversation,

Current events of police brutality.

Country music, video camera and alcohol, good together?

Michael Crabtree, a good WR?

Should dread lock pulling be a penalty?

Humility, is it really a virtue?

Are substitutions impacted by contract status?


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Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 6 2014, 03:22 PM) *
Should dread lock pulling be a penalty?

Are dreads easier to grab than free flying long ass hair?
JaxEagle
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 3 2014, 01:31 PM) *
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What took you so long?

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JaxEagle
Wheeljack
Sanchez turned into 2014 Foles with a couple of those sacks... straight Moonwalking. And then there are the missed plays, the over throws, and the TURNOVERS.

the only advantage Sanchise has over Foles is that he will help the Eagles put up points, but not enough of them!

The Eagles need a new (and by that I mean, never wore the Eagle uniform before) QB in 2015. No more BS-ing. Sanchise/Foles is a case of Couch v. Holcomb if I ever saw one.
Pbfan
Yes his overthrows are inexcusable. As I mention in the other thread, this isn't going to change. Sanchez isn't going to get much more accurate over time.

Also , remember that Foles had a shit offensive line for pretty much the entire 2014 season. Sanchez has it much much better right now. This dallas game was more than winnable by our offense alone. If we had a little 2013 Foles and a potato instead of Carey Williams, we would have won this game by 20 something.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (Pbfan @ Dec 15 2014, 05:45 PM) *
Yes his overthrows are inexcusable. As I mention in the other thread, this isn't going to change. Sanchez isn't going to get much more accurate over time.

Also , remember that Foles had a shit offensive line for pretty much the entire 2014 season. Sanchez has it much much better right now. This dallas game was more than winnable by our offense alone. If we had a little 2013 Foles and a potato instead of Carey Williams, we would have won this game by 20 something.

^^ that
Zero
Yeah, but I think it was more Fletcher than Williams. mad.gif
koolaidluke
I love how Desean, who was the only offensive player who even bothered showing up for that game, was getting bashed by the fans AFTER Kelly decided he didn't want him around anymore (those same fans had been hanging off his balls before that). Foles completely blew that game and if not for Desean the Eagles would have scored 10 points.

Have you noticed that with Foles, it is NEVER his fault? People that I have seen blamed for the (many) games Foles has single handedly blown:
The refs
Desean
Chip Kelly
Offensive line
Injuries (Foles is the only QB in NFL history to ever play hurt, apparently)
McCoy
The defense
Alex Henery
Riley Cooper (okay, there may be something to this one, but there are still 3 to 4 other eligible receivers out there on any given play and it isn't like Riley didn't bail Nick out a ton of times last season)

What I don't get is "why?", and I want to understand. Why do people love this guy so much?



Sanchez is the exact opposite, it is ALWAYS his fault even when the defense allows 50 points.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Dec 16 2014, 09:41 AM) *
I love how Desean, who was the only offensive player who even bothered showing up for that game, was getting bashed by the fans AFTER Kelly decided he didn't want him around anymore (those same fans had been hanging off his balls before that). Foles completely blew that game and if not for Desean the Eagles would have scored 10 points.

Have you noticed that with Foles, it is NEVER his fault? People that I have seen blamed for the (many) games Foles has single handedly blown:
The refs
Desean
Chip Kelly
Offensive line
Injuries (Foles is the only QB in NFL history to ever play hurt, apparently)
McCoy
The defense
Alex Henery
Riley Cooper (okay, there may be something to this one, but there are still 3 to 4 other eligible receivers out there on any given play and it isn't like Riley didn't bail Nick out a ton of times last season)

What I don't get is "why?", and I want to understand. Why do people love this guy so much?



Sanchez is the exact opposite, it is ALWAYS his fault even when the defense allows 50 points.


the 49ers game this season was one of the two sorriest I've seen by any Eagle QB since the start of the millennium. the other being the other Cowboys game where Foles looked like he was playing off 3 bottles of NyQuil.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Dec 19 2014, 11:45 AM) *
the 49ers game this season was one of the two sorriest I've seen by any Eagle QB since the start of the millennium. the other being the other Cowboys game where Foles looked like he was playing off 3 bottles of NyQuil.

Those two were definitely Blaine Gabbert impersonations.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Dec 19 2014, 12:16 PM) *
Those two were definitely Blaine Gabbert impersonations.

Impersonations at best case... bad news for us as worst case... sad.gif
JaxEagle
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mcnabbulous
Are we really debating if that was a Foles vs. Sanchez game?
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2014, 02:15 AM) *
Are we really debating if that was a Foles vs. Sanchez game?

Foles is young enough that there is hope he can play better than that, although the evidence from this season is not promising.

Sanchez is what is has been for his career - not good enough to be the starter. We've had to use him as that though due to Foles injury.

No-one can dispute that we need better decision making and ball protection from our QBs.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 21 2014, 05:32 AM) *
Foles is young enough that there is hope he can play better than that, although the evidence from this season is not promising.

Sanchez is what is has been for his career - not good enough to be the starter. We've had to use him as that though due to Foles injury.

No-one can dispute that we need better decision making and ball protection from our QBs.

For some reason, Jax is under the impression I think Sanchez is something he is not. He is a serviceable NFL QB. Frankly, given some of the shitty situations he was put in yesterday (3rd and longs) I thought he played better than expected. Both of our OTs were worse than Sanchez yesterday.

We need a QB. Foles has proven what he is when faced with NFL throwing lanes. If this offense is going to reach its true potential, we need a guy with mobility. I would rather have had Vick than Sanchez over the past 7 weeks.
nephillymike
Sanchez isn't all of that but he played a good game yesterday.

Made one big mistake on the INT as he should have thrown it to the right, but Maclin should be able to box that DB out to prevent that. He also missed Ertz for a TD one time, but other than that played a good game.

A 99.9 rating for the game is very good, 87.3 for the year is below average but not bad.

Yesterday's blame game candidates:

1. Our $10M in the bank. Although highly touted by the front office, this guy didn't make one play yesterday when we needed him most, in fact he made a couple of big plays for the other side, while his counter part on the Eagles made one days interest in the bank which at today's rates netted about $548 before tax for the day. The alternative use of those funds is playing CB in a few venues today, oddly enough all for playoff teams.

2. Billy Davis and Chip Kelly. What drugs are they taking to think that our CB's can stick with anyone? Inexcuseable.

3. Fletcher and Williams. Any questions?

4. Cody Parkey. After a great year, the kid missed one short one that would have given us a chance.

4. Lane Johnson and Gardner. Dudes were beaten like a drum most of the day.

5. Jason Peters - didn't play well and it hurt us in big spots.

6. The refs. Those two roughing the passer penalties were a joke and directly responsible for their chance to win the game.

7. Mark Sanchez. for the one pick and the one missed TD to Ertz. Because of 1-6, we needed him to be two plays better.

8. Me. Because year after year I subject myself to this fucking torture. I am an idiot.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 21 2014, 11:56 AM) *
8. Me. Because year after year I subject myself to this fucking torture. I am an idiot.


I always try talking down your expectations. I said 9-7, and at minimum we'll get that - if we go 10-6 and somehow sneak into the playoffs, it's a win! Lowering expectations is better for your heart.
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