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xsv
I guess there's an outside chance that the toe injury is still affecting him, but if not, then I think he's about finished. He doens't have the same explosiveness or quickness he had last year.
koolaidluke
I don't think it's a matter of opinion any more. The guy is so done it's not even funny. Even he seems to know it's over.

RB's are a dime a dozen though so it should be no problem to get somebody new in the offseason.


I sure hope they aren't banking on that injury prone piece of shit Polk, though. He sucks. The Eagles need at least 2 new RBs in the offseason.
Phits
He looks tentative. The truth is, youre only as good as your oline. For a number if reasons, our line has regressed. That said, I wonder what his value is in a trade.
Birdman420
If his value nets us a real franchise QB or a shot at one then I'd say do it. We can always sign a big boy running back that runs people over(lacy) and keep sproles as our backfield ninja. McCoy has not looked himself since(yes I'm going to say it again) that hit on his head earlier in the year.

To say that McCoy is done is a very general view of his ability. I think his physical ability hasn't gone anywhere, in my opinion it's all mental. Look at sproles being as old as he is as a RB and having no problem finding holes for large gains and shaking tackles...
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Nov 17 2014, 11:38 AM) *
To say that McCoy is done is a very general view of his ability. I think his physical ability hasn't gone anywhere, in my opinion it's all mental. Look at sproles being as old as he is as a RB and having no problem finding holes for large gains and shaking tackles...


Agree with this. As far as Sproles goes, his role on the field is never clear, he's often used as a decoy and is often targeted on screen passes, as opposed to McCoy, where pretty much everyone focuses on him running when he's in. I'd like to see both of them on the field together, that would give defenses fits.

Not to open up this can of worms again, but how much did the presence of DJax on the field keep the defense honest, giving Shady better looks?
mcnabbulous
He's not done. Hell just be down for a year or two. Hopefully just one. He's young enough that he can still have a few more really solid years (ala Arian Foster). His body just needs a bit of recovery time. Having a reliable backup is the best thing that can happen for him.

Someone on this site predicted this type of decline. Can't remember who. That guy is truly a prophet though.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 17 2014, 12:45 PM) *
Agree with this. As far as Sproles goes, his role on the field is never clear, he's often used as a decoy and is often targeted on screen passes, as opposed to McCoy, where pretty much everyone focuses on him running when he's in. I'd like to see both of them on the field together, that would give defenses fits.

Not to open up this can of worms again, but how much did the presence of DJax on the field keep the defense honest, giving Shady better looks?

I heard somewhere that Shady and Sproles have been on the field together 13 times this year.

The team averaged almost ten yards per play on those 13 plays. Seems like we may want to dial that up again
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 18 2014, 08:49 PM) *
I heard somewhere that Shady and Sproles have been on the field together 13 times this year.

The team averaged almost ten yards per play on those 13 plays. Seems like we may want to dial that up again


I've been saying this all year, you can't cover everyone, put all of your weapons on the field. It would definitely leave SOMEBODY open or in a complete mismatch.

As far as his 'decline,' with every defense in the league gunning for him, poor QB play, and a damaged o-line, he's still projected to end up with around 1200 rushing yards, he's only a few yards from being 5th in the league right now. OH NO, the horror!!!!! He's finished!!! We shouldn't have utilized him last year!

Sometimes we really deserve our reputation as a fan base.....
mcnabbulous
laugh.gif

3.7 yards per carry, dude. 3.7.

1200 yards. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

I recently read that Sproles' last 10 carries have all gone for at least 5 yards. With all the same variables, he is averaging 6.8 ypc.

But yeah, same guy. rolleyes.gif
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2014, 11:13 AM) *
I recently read that Sproles' last 10 carries have all gone for at least 5 yards. With all the same variables, he is averaging 6.8 ypc.


So you're saying every defense in the league is playing to stuff Sproles, with his 3-4 carries per game? Is this what you're stooping to in order to tell yourself you're right?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 19 2014, 10:18 AM) *
So you're saying every defense in the league is playing to stuff Sproles? Is this what you're stooping to in order to tell yourself you're right?

No -- I'm saying that McCoy is a shell of himself from last year. No matter how you slice it. The guy has lost 1.4 ypc from one year to the next. He clearly lacks the explosiveness he has shown the rest of his career. His long run for the season is 28 yards.

I think defenses largely play us the same way when both Shady and Sproles are in the game.

He is 38th in the league in yards per carry. 38th. You're literally the only one that is denying that he isn't the same guy as last year.

You can hide your head up your own ass while denying that I predicted this situation. The fact is, it happened. We're in year one of Shady's likely two year decline. He's young enough where he'll likely have a resurgence at some point, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was for another team.

Next thing, you'll still try to tell me that Andy Reid can't beat good coaches/teams. laugh.gif
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2014, 11:29 AM) *
I think defenses largely play us the same way when both Shady and Sproles are in the game.


And.....this conversation is over. What a ridiculous statement, even for you. I understand how desperate you are to keep convincing yourself that you're right about Andy neglecting to use Westbrook and McCoy, but seriously, stick to random statements about stats, at least those have some basic merit. It's the same reason you were salivating for Sanchez to not suck, so you could convince yourself that it was the Jets, not him, and you were right about wanting to draft Geno Smith in the first round. You've been proven wrong about both things. Just stop, it's actually disturbing and quite childish.

It's clear every team in the league is playing to stop him, and daring our QB's to beat them. There's also no deep threat on the field anymore to keep them honest. In the 3 week stretch against NY, Ariz, and Hou, he was no different than ever before. He's had a few abysmal games, but for the most part he's been fine all things considered.
mcnabbulous
Sproles is averaging 6.8 ypc. Our QBs aren't playing well. Why do you think defenses are dramatically changing their gameplan when Shady is out of the game?

Newsflash: They aren't.

Seriously, you're the only person on this board that thinks that Shady isn't down this year. You're the problem. You're always the problem.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2014, 12:06 PM) *
Seriously, you're the only person on this board that thinks that Shady isn't down this year.


Obviously he's having a statistically down year when put up against last year - for a variety of reasons listed here and in several other threads. You're saying it's because he ran the ball 300 times a year ago, that he has a physical problem. People are saying 'he's finished.' Clearly that's not the case.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 19 2014, 11:17 AM) *
Obviously he's having a statistically down year when put up against last year

No, he's having a statistically down year compared to all of football. He's 38th in yards per carry. His average has dropped by 1.4 yards per carry from very good to very bad.

Conversely, Jamaal Charles' ypc has improved from last year. He's also being used less than ever before despite being on one of the league's heaviest running teams. But I'm sure no one is trying to stop Jamaal Charles, because he isn't good and the Chiefs have such great deep passing threats. Right?

QUOTE
- for a variety of reasons listed here and in several other threads.

I would agree that a variety of things are contributing to it.

QUOTE
You're saying it's because he ran the ball 300 times a year ago, that he has a physical problem.

That's correct. It's one of the reasons. As I have pointed out, guys that carry the ball that much tend to decline in production. It's especially true of guys built like Shady.

QUOTE
People are saying 'he's finished.'

I'm not one of those people. I've made it very clear I think he will have a resurgence, but his body will require rest for that to happen. He's not currently getting that.

QUOTE
Clearly that's not the case.

There is nothing right now that says "clearly" he will come back. He's an NFL running back. You just never know. I tend to believe he'll come back, because he's so young. No guarantees though.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 17 2014, 07:11 AM) *
I guess there's an outside chance that the toe injury is still affecting him, but if not, then I think he's about finished. He doens't have the same explosiveness or quickness he had last year.


rolleyes.gif

He clearly isn't the same player he was last week.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 23 2014, 03:28 PM) *
rolleyes.gif

He clearly isn't the same player he was last week.....

I realize that a full yard per carry reduction in productivity isn't enough evidence for you, but I can point to several excellent individual game performances by Chris Johnson after his major decline.

That doesn't mean Shady is as explosive as last year. It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention. Or not suffering a severe case of denial.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 23 2014, 04:44 PM) *
I realize that a full yard per carry reduction in productivity isn't enough evidence for you, but I can point to several excellent individual game performances by Chris Johnson after his major decline.

That doesn't mean Shady is as explosive as last year. It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention. Or not suffering a severe case of denial.


*yawn*

You put in the "he'll probably have a resurgence" BS to cover your bases so you could call yourself a prophet when he has another great season next year or beyond. There's nothing different about his abilities from last year, only differences in his QB's play, the o-line's health, and the way defenses are playing us.

RB's tend to 'decline' after rushing for 2,000 yards in a season. Holding out doesn't seem to help either. Athletes sometimes don't match the same statistics after setting franchise season records in rushing yards and yards from scrimmage.
mcnabbulous
Why do you use total rushing yards as if it's an important or relevant stat? He's on pace for about the same amount of carries as last year and 400 fewer yards. A full yard less, every time he touches the ball. Not to mention his total lack of impact in the passing game.

My comments about a resurgence are entirely based on his age and nfl history. I've been making reference to it for 2-3 years. It's not specific to Shady.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 23 2014, 05:34 PM) *
Why do you use total rushing yards as if it's an important or relevant stat? He's on pace for about the same amount of carries as last year and 400 fewer yards. A full yard less, every time he touches the ball. Not to mention his total lack of impact in the passing game.


Obviously yards are important, they're indicative of performance. Yards per carry is a more useful indicator - he's down this year of course. He's had 3 unbelievably atrocious games, but in the other 8 games he's averaged yards per carry consistent with his career average, around 4.4 overall.

This is without a deep threat on the field for the first time in his career, with poor QB play, with a banged up o-line, and with the target on his back of being the rushing champion, defenses have been playing to stuff him all year. All I've said is that he's no different physically. You keep saying it's because of the amount of carries he had a year ago, which is ridiculous.
nephillymike
You guys need to read that stat articles I posted in the other thread.

Puts a lot of this to bed.
xsv
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 23 2014, 04:28 PM) *
rolleyes.gif

He clearly isn't the same player he was last week.....


Even though he had a better day, he still didn't look as explosive to me as he did last year. He may not be "done", but he's just not the same guy this year for whatever reason.
Zero
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 24 2014, 07:05 AM) *
Even though he had a better day, he still didn't look as explosive to me as he did last year. He may not be "done", but he's just not the same guy this year for whatever reason.

I think someone pointed out that RBs that have "excessive" carries one year are known to have an appreciable drop off in effectiveness the following year.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 23 2014, 06:48 PM) *
You guys need to read that stat articles I posted in the other thread.

Puts a lot of this to bed.

The one about how rushing success is irrelevant to overall success in the NFL?
mcnabbulous
Certainly looks more decisive the past two weeks. Awesome stuff!
HOUSEoPAIN
Bumping this, I just realized Shady will likely become our all-time leading rusher tomorrow, he needs 47 yards. I haven't heard any talk about this until now, I don't know if any of you have.

Looking at our RB's historical stats, the only one who even comes close to his efficiency is Steve Van Buren, who played in a completely different game. Looking at Montgomery's stats, Shady will pass his yards in 13 less games, fumbling a ridiculous 29 times less. I never watched Montgomery play, looks like he was a fumble machine.

To the best RB in franchise history. cheers.gif
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