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Birdwatcher
Sanchez up now
JeeQ
I've waited my entire life to see Mark Sanchez as the Eagles QB... can't wait until we get Tim Tebow next season
nephillymike
Not a Foles hater at all.

I love Nick Foles and want him to be the QB for a long time.

But I love the team more and I want to win.

Best man plays.

Simple as that.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 2 2014, 03:29 PM) *
Not a Foles hater at all.

I love Nick Foles and want him to be the QB for a long time.

But I love the team more and I want to win.

Best man plays.

Simple as that.

Come on Mike. You have been aching to have Foles benched for weeks now. And the only way it is going to happen is if he goes down with injury, like he did today.

He is the starter on this team, and Sanchez is the back up. That isn't going to change this season, barring further injury.
nephillymike
Sam,

I have consistently expressed my disappointment in Foles for most of the year.

Read my post from a while ago, he had three games to straighten it out, NYG, ARI Hou. Based on the first two, he needed to bring it this game.

I said if he didn't play at a high level for most of those games, then I thought a change was warranted.

Since he didn't complete today's game, I stick with Foles next week. He deserves that game to see if he turns it around.

If he does, fine he stays the starter. If he doesn't, make a change.

No hate. just a hunger for a title.

I will say it again, I want Foles to be the guy, but will not accept his bottom tier play in an offense that I think is great for a QB to excel in. We have too many big games coming up to settle for less.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 2 2014, 04:42 PM) *
Sam,

I have consistently expressed my disappointment in Foles for most of the year.

Read my post from a while ago, he had three games to straighten it out, NYG, ARI Hou. Based on the first two, he needed to bring it this game.

I said if he didn't play at a high level for most of those games, then I thought a change was warranted.

Since he didn't complete today's game, I stick with Foles next week. He deserves that game to see if he turns it around.

If he does, fine he stays the starter. If he doesn't, make a change.

No hate. just a hunger for a title.

I will say it again, I want Foles to be the guy, but will not accept his bottom tier play in an offense that I think is great for a QB to excel in. We have too many big games coming up to settle for less.

Well, from what I am hearing regarding his shoulder injury, you won't have to suffer through Foles' "bottom tier play" next week at the very least, possibly the rest of the way.
mcnabbulous
Are you denying that he has been bad? He is near the top (maybe the top) of the league in turnovers. I'm not sure I understand the quotes.
koolaidluke
I have never seen a player who has accomplished so little defended as passionately as Eagles fans have defended Nick Foles this season.

This is also the 3rd straight season his goofy ass is going to miss time. The love the city has for this fraud boggles my mind.
SAM I Am
You guys are right. He blows, and today's injury is the best thing that could have happened to this team.
koolaidluke
He doesn't blow. He's decent. The problem is his defenders claiming that he is something special when he is so obviously not.
Phits
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Nov 2 2014, 07:04 PM) *
You guys are right. He blows, and today's injury is the best thing that could have happened to this team.

Some people say he blows....some people think he's a God. He's actually somewhere in the middle. This season he played slightly above average. He leads the league in INT's. The injury may be the best thing for him this season. Give him a few games to figure out the problem(s) with his mechanics and correct them.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 2 2014, 07:06 PM) *
Some people say he blows....some people think he's a God. He's actually somewhere in the middle. This season he played slightly above average. He leads the league in INT's. The injury may be the best thing for him this season. Give him a few games to figure out the problem(s) with his mechanics and correct them.



Slightly above average?

C'mon Phits.

You can say he's played below average but you think he will turn it around and get to an above average or good level. But Phits, he was 29th in the NFL in rating and 29th or so in completion % and tops or close to it in turnovers. Saying he was above average?

I hope he's OK to play next week, and I want him to be well enough to play then. Maybe the extra day will help and maybe he'll turn it around. But to say he's above average just isn't seeing the game.
TO's Sharpie
Foles is an average QB who understood the system and worked well within it. I expect Sanchez to be more of the same. Neither are the prototype for Chip's offense but both are smart and can work within it.

Short term I think we are ok...long term I really think we do not have the savior we all have been looking for.
JeeQ
QUOTE (TO's Sharpie @ Nov 2 2014, 06:45 PM) *
Foles is an average QB who understood the system and worked well within it. I expect Sanchez to be more of the same. Neither are the prototype for Chip's offense but both are smart and can work within it.

Short term I think we are ok...long term I really think we do not have the savior we all have been looking for.


Everything here

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 2 2014, 02:48 PM) *
Are you denying that he has been bad? He is near the top (maybe the top) of the league in turnovers. I'm not sure I understand the quotes.


3 injuries in 3 seasons and leads the league in turnovers... he's being saved by the memory of his undeniably great previous season
Birdwatcher
To me the whole problem revolves around 47/53 run to pass ratio last year and the pass heavy approach this year. Foles had an epic season because the the O was so well balanced that Ds never knew where the ball would go. And don't feed me that missing DJax crap, we started running pretty good the last few games and he is still not here. With Shady, Sproles, and now Polk looking in good form, we should be able to pound most Ds into submission on the ground, then burn them easily with play action. That's what worked last year and what we need to do in the last 8 games.

I feel Foles problems developed as the run game faltered, his first three starts were not awful and we won them all. I think we would have seen improvement in Foles if the run game continued to work, and that will also determine Sanchez's success or failure. Run our horses and we continue to win, go pass happy and we lose.
Phits
Foles' inaccuracy, this season, has allowed teams to focus on the run. If he was hitting the open receivers it would force the defense to respect the pass, which would open up the running game.

QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Nov 3 2014, 12:33 AM) *
To me the whole problem revolves around 47/53 run to pass ratio last year and the pass heavy approach this year. Foles had an epic season because the the O was so well balanced that Ds never knew where the ball would go. And don't feed me that missing DJax crap, we started running pretty good the last few games and he is still not here. With Shady, Sproles, and now Polk looking in good form, we should be able to pound most Ds into submission on the ground, then burn them easily with play action. That's what worked last year and what we need to do in the last 8 games.

I feel Foles problems developed as the run game faltered, his first three starts were not awful and we won them all. I think we would have seen improvement in Foles if the run game continued to work, and that will also determine Sanchez's success or failure. Run our horses and we continue to win, go pass happy and we lose.

Wheeljack
QUOTE (TO's Sharpie @ Nov 2 2014, 09:45 PM) *
Foles is an average QB who understood the system and worked well within it. I expect Sanchez to be more of the same. Neither are the prototype for Chip's offense but both are smart and can work within it.

Short term I think we are ok...long term I really think we do not have the savior we all have been looking for.


Bingo.

I didn't see a "clear upgrade" from Foles with Sanchez. But I did see a few things that were better (maybe because also all 3 RBs were available, coaching learned from mistakes, and Kelce was back at Center).

It's enough to roll with until Foles is ready to play again. Sanchez had some bad (and some poorly thrown) passes to his name. But at least he's stepping into them.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2014, 09:16 AM) *
Foles' inaccuracy, this season, has allowed teams to focus on the run. If he was hitting the open receivers it would force the defense to respect the pass, which would open up the running game.


He was at about 61% in the first three games, and most of his misses came from long balls which were being tossed at more than twice the rate of last year. The way games started being called, especially with Shady dancing around and going nowhere led to Foles accuracy and int problems. Sanchez will succeed only if we can keep the run game going, didn't we learn from Reid that pass heavy Os are problematic? This is not all on Foles, he was asked to do more than a second year QB is ready for IMO anyway.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Nov 3 2014, 02:06 PM) *
Sanchez will succeed only if we can keep the run game going, didn't we learn from Reid that pass heavy Os are problematic? This is not all on Foles, he was asked to do more than a second year QB is ready for IMO anyway.


Agreed, except that not only is he being asked to do more than a 2nd year QB is, he's being asked to do more than HoF QB's are. Chip's playcalling has been absolutely terrible. Foles was bad, and Sanchez was even worse - the difference being Sanchez got help from his coach.
make_it_rain
They're calling 41% runs, as opposed to 49% last season. As of now, they're passing the 11th most in the league. That's certainly a drop from last season, but its not quite like they're someone like atlanta who passes 65% of the plays.

A better run/pass balance would have probably opened some more things up for Foles, but I think we would still see most of the bad decision making and backfooted mechanics that have caused so many turnovers without it.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Nov 3 2014, 04:48 PM) *
They're calling 41% runs, as opposed to 49% last season. As of now, they're passing the 11th most in the league. That's certainly a drop from last season, but its not quite like they're someone like atlanta who passes 65% of the plays.

A better run/pass balance would have probably opened some more things up for Foles, but I think we would still see most of the bad decision making and backfooted mechanics that have caused so many turnovers without it.


And in our 2 losses, we've passed around 75-80% of the time. Before Foles got injured on Sunday it was well over 80% passes. When Sanchez came in they called a balanced attack, which more than made up for Sanchez's shitty play.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 3 2014, 07:04 PM) *
And in our 2 losses, we've passed around 75-80% of the time. Before Foles got injured on Sunday it was well over 80% passes. When Sanchez came in they called a balanced attack, which more than made up for Sanchez's shitty play.

You will find that team's who play from behind generally pass more than they run.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2014, 07:00 PM) *
You will find that team's who play from behind generally pass more than they run.


Sure - and last I checked, we were never behind on Sunday. And we weren't behind against San Fran until the 3rd quarter, and then by one score.
nephillymike
This is not the Andy Reid run-pass ratio discussion.

Reid would run on occasion but passed at the highest rate of any head coach in the NFL ever as of his time here and teams would try to take away the pass and Andy would still pass.

Chip believes more than any other NFL coach in running the football. His ratio last year illustrates that.

However, this year, the other teams have decided to defend the run and make Foles beat them through the air. The fact the OL was dinged, made it tougher to run and put more importance on our need to win the air war.

Foles' inaccuracy, hesitancy and bad decisions made us less effective at passing and made it easier for teams to slow us down. If Foles was having an average to slightly above average year, our offense would be so much better and we'd have at least one more win. He would have beaten teams with his arm and forced them to play the pass honestly, which in turn would have opened up the run game.

In short, it isn't the run game's fault that Foles is having a bad year.

It's Foles fault that teams are able to defend our run better.
mcnabbulous
Andy's team is the 4th most balanced this year because he has an accurate QB. It's all related.

We are throwing more this year because Foles has been less accurate. He's missing more throws on early downs, resulting in more "and long" situations. Chip has less confidence in him picking up third down opportunities, so he is giving him more chances on both second and third downs to move the chains.

It's literally the same exact thing we experienced with McNabb. Then Vick. And the same exact thing Shanahan experienced with McNabb.

Now Andy has a guy completing ⅔ of his attempts and he's willing to run more frequently on first and second down...because he's confident his guy can move the chains on third.

It's really pretty simple.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 3 2014, 09:19 PM) *
However, this year, the other teams have decided to defend the run and make Foles beat them through the air. The fact the OL was dinged, made it tougher to run and put more importance on our need to win the air war.


Clearly they've done that, and clearly Foles hasn't played well. Yet as we saw Sunday, when you stick to a balanced attack, and allow your QB to manage the game and not lose it, we win. Sanchez played worse than Foles, yet they still easily put away Houston on the road when they stopped passing over 80% of the time.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 3 2014, 08:29 PM) *
Sanchez played worse than Foles

No. He didn't.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2014, 09:45 PM) *
No. He didn't.


Yes. He did. By any relevant statistical measure. And he should've had at least one more pick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 3 2014, 09:16 PM) *
Yes. He did. By any relevant statistical measure. And he should've had at least one more pick.

He actually should have had one less pick. He could have had one more and if Riley Cooper and Huff were competent, he could have had none. This for a guy that gets almost no time during the week to form any chemistry with those receivers.

Foles, on the other hand, threw a pick six and very much looked like the same exact guy who has been below average all season long. He got injured on another play where he hesitated, pump faked, and simply lacked any sense of comfortability or confidence in the pocket.
koolaidluke
It really is. Andy has so many legitimate things to criticize him for, why do people insist on using one that all available evidence shows is bogus?
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2014, 10:26 PM) *
He actually should have had one less pick. He could have had one more and if Riley Cooper and Huff were competent, he could have had none. This for a guy that gets almost no time during the week to form any chemistry with those receivers.

Foles, on the other hand, threw a pick six and very much looked like the same exact guy who has been below average all season long. He got injured on another play where he hesitated, pump faked, and simply lacked any sense of comfortability or confidence in the pocket.



Add a pick for the one the guy dropped, remove a pick for the one Huff missed, add the yard for Huff should be catch and add the yards for Sproles gimme catch that he dropped and I think you have a very solid passing game for a guy in his first time out.

His pass to Matthews was beautiful, only surpassed by Foles pass to Ertz vs. NYG as the best pass by a QB all year. Foles one to Matthews vs NYG was great also, I'd put that one third.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Nov 3 2014, 09:53 PM) *
It really is. Andy has so many legitimate things to criticize him for, why do people insist on using one that all available evidence shows is bogus?

Dogma.

No one likes to admit that a strongly held belief is wrong.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 3 2014, 10:19 PM) *
In short, it isn't the run game's fault that Foles is having a bad year.

It's Foles fault that teams are able to defend our run better.


that was beautiful.

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