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nephillymike
The sting of Sunday's loss starts to wear off, I can try to give an even keel assessment of how are team has done, player by player, unit by unit.

A = Excellent
B = Good
C = Average
D = Below Average
F = Poor

Defense - Overall = C-

Overall, 29th in yards, 25th in points allowed, 13th in yards allow per drive, 19th in pts. allowed per drive -

I never felt sympathy for a D like I did last Sunday. They hung in there and gave an effort that made me proud as a fan.

Still, with these stats, it's tough to give high grades overall:

Thorton = B+
Logan = C started slow and has come on lately
Cox = B+

Barwin = B
Kendricks = A-
Ryans = C- Was thinking a D. He hasn't made a play all year, but hasn't made many mistakes. I like his leadership
Cole = C-

Williams = F 2nd to Nnamdi as worst CB in last 30 years for us
Fletcher = D afer a solid 2013, a disappointment
Boykin = B+
Allen = C- I thought he would be better this year
Jenkins = A great signing. He's been everything they could have expected.


Offense - Overall = B+

Overall, 8th in yards, 3rd in points, 13th in yds per drive, 10th in pts. per drive.

Plenty of OL injuries/suspensions. Worried about how we're going to hold up until the gang gets back.

Peters - B+. Not up to his all world status yet. Has gotten beat a few times
Mathis - A- He's a stud.
Kelce = A. That run down field was the most amazing thing I've seen from OL
Herremans = C+. He got blown up on that last play and may be replaced when everyone comes back.
The backups - Tobin, Molk, Barbre, Gardner, Kelly = D. Very disappointing. Buddy Ryanesque production.

Celek = C+
Ertz = B. The fumble cost us the game. Can't have that. Otherwise would be an A-

Maclin = A-. While his numbers don't show it, he's been open all year long. Two great catches so far. QB has killed him
Cooper = F. A few dropped TD's including last week. A fumble or two, and a few other drops. Inexcusable.
Matthews = C About what was expected so far. He's playing better lately.

McCoy = C-. I blame the line for most of it. The missed block last week and a few holes he didn't take hurt us.
Sproles = A Great pickup. When OL comes back, he should do better

Foles = C-. I've seen much worse QB play, but I don't think I've ever seen a QB leave as many huge plays on the field. If he hit on half of the wide open misses, we'd be on cruise control at 4-0, Maclin would lead the legue in rec yards and we'd have about 35 more points and that's only if he hit on half. He's the guy I wanted to succeed more than any new Eagle in the last ten years. I like him a lot. Sure some of the misses are caused by the OL giving up pressure, as the Wash game was horrible pressure, but last week was just below average pressure. It amazes me that nobody corrects his footwork. His lead foot it at a 45-60 degree angle instead of the 90 degree angle straight to the target. Some of it is not having confidence in the OL to step into his throws, but most of it is bad footwork of him not stepping into his throws. He was 1-14 on deep throws last week.

Special Teams = A+

Parkey = B+. A missed short FG from being in A territory.
Jones = B+. Solid as usual
Returners = A+. Great job
Coverage Teams = A+

Chip Kelly = A-. His QB has cost him lofty numbers for the first four games. Guys were open, deep and often.



koolaidluke
Some of those wide open deep passes Foles really just blew, but a lot of them were not easy throws despite his guys being "wide open". Hitting guys deep is not easy unless you have a guy who can either go up and get an under throw (Cooper last year) or run under an overthrow (Jackson). I do expect Foles deep passes to get better, but he is going to continue to miss most of them just like every other NFL QB.

By the way, I think one of the things that got Jackson thrown off the team was how vocal he was about being sick of Foles perpetually under throwing him.
xsv
Agree with most...... disagree strongly with giving chip an A-. I don't think it's fair to put ALL of the blame on the QB here. Sure, there have been receivers open, but I would have thought Chip would come up with a way to compensate for the lack of push from the 2nd and 3rd string OL. I would have liked to have seen more misdirection, draws and delays to kick start the offense. The design of the running plays has looked more.... vanillia that I have hoped to see.

We've seen before that throwing the ball 50 times a game with no running game is a recipe for disaster.

Also, there have been times this year that I feel like chip screwed up.

I'd give him a B-.



QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 30 2014, 09:50 PM) *
The sting of Sunday's loss starts to wear off, I can try to give an even keel assessment of how are team has done, player by player, unit by unit.

A = Excellent
B = Good
C = Average
D = Below Average
F = Poor

Defense - Overall = C-

Overall, 29th in yards, 25th in points allowed, 13th in yards allow per drive, 19th in pts. allowed per drive -

I never felt sympathy for a D like I did last Sunday. They hung in there and gave an effort that made me proud as a fan.

Still, with these stats, it's tough to give high grades overall:

Thorton = B+
Logan = C started slow and has come on lately
Cox = B+

Barwin = B
Kendricks = A-
Ryans = C- Was thinking a D. He hasn't made a play all year, but hasn't made many mistakes. I like his leadership
Cole = C-

Williams = F 2nd to Nnamdi as worst CB in last 30 years for us
Fletcher = D afer a solid 2013, a disappointment
Boykin = B+
Allen = C- I thought he would be better this year
Jenkins = A great signing. He's been everything they could have expected.


Offense - Overall = B+

Overall, 8th in yards, 3rd in points, 13th in yds per drive, 10th in pts. per drive.

Plenty of OL injuries/suspensions. Worried about how we're going to hold up until the gang gets back.

Peters - B+. Not up to his all world status yet. Has gotten beat a few times
Mathis - A- He's a stud.
Kelce = A. That run down field was the most amazing thing I've seen from OL
Herremans = C+. He got blown up on that last play and may be replaced when everyone comes back.
The backups - Tobin, Molk, Barbre, Gardner, Kelly = D. Very disappointing. Buddy Ryanesque production.

Celek = C+
Ertz = B. The fumble cost us the game. Can't have that. Otherwise would be an A-

Maclin = A-. While his numbers don't show it, he's been open all year long. Two great catches so far. QB has killed him
Cooper = F. A few dropped TD's including last week. A fumble or two, and a few other drops. Inexcusable.
Matthews = C About what was expected so far. He's playing better lately.

McCoy = C-. I blame the line for most of it. The missed block last week and a few holes he didn't take hurt us.
Sproles = A Great pickup. When OL comes back, he should do better

Foles = C-. I've seen much worse QB play, but I don't think I've ever seen a QB leave as many huge plays on the field. If he hit on half of the wide open misses, we'd be on cruise control at 4-0, Maclin would lead the legue in rec yards and we'd have about 35 more points and that's only if he hit on half. He's the guy I wanted to succeed more than any new Eagle in the last ten years. I like him a lot. Sure some of the misses are caused by the OL giving up pressure, as the Wash game was horrible pressure, but last week was just below average pressure. It amazes me that nobody corrects his footwork. His lead foot it at a 45-60 degree angle instead of the 90 degree angle straight to the target. Some of it is not having confidence in the OL to step into his throws, but most of it is bad footwork of him not stepping into his throws. He was 1-14 on deep throws last week.

Special Teams = A+

Parkey = B+. A missed short FG from being in A territory.
Jones = B+. Solid as usual
Returners = A+. Great job
Coverage Teams = A+

Chip Kelly = A-. His QB has cost him lofty numbers for the first four games. Guys were open, deep and often.

Dreagon
Very weird season so far. Surprises all over the place.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 1 2014, 08:52 AM) *
I would have liked to have seen more misdirection, draws and delays to kick start the offense. The design of the running plays has looked more.... vanillia that I have hoped to see.

Chip's offense is vanilla. It's based on creating mismatches and executing. We simply aren't executing. The OL is suffering from a lack of cohesion. Every week, we send out a new lineup. Foles is missing opportunities. Shady is struggling to make guys miss on the few chances he has.

Everyone wants NFL offenses to be groundbreaking and original, but that's not what leads to success. It's about putting your guys in position and them actually executing.

It's like that time Keith Bullock said, "we kind of knew when they get into certain formations, what type of plays they will run." after a game. It's not a matter of a playcaller being predictable. These guys watch enough film that they should know what to expect. If the offense does their job, it doesn't matter.

Our offense, across the board, isn't doing their job.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 1 2014, 08:54 AM) *
By the way, I think one of the things that got Jackson thrown off the team was how vocal he was about being sick of Foles perpetually under throwing him.


very interesting...
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Oct 1 2014, 12:20 PM) *
very interesting...


Nah, it's actually a very stupid theory. But whatever, look where it's coming from.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Oct 1 2014, 01:44 PM) *
Nah, it's actually a very stupid theory. But whatever, look where it's coming from.

Curious....what makes it such a 'stupid theory'?
nephillymike
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 1 2014, 07:54 AM) *
Some of those wide open deep passes Foles really just blew, but a lot of them were not easy throws despite his guys being "wide open". Hitting guys deep is not easy unless you have a guy who can either go up and get an under throw (Cooper last year) or run under an overthrow (Jackson). I do expect Foles deep passes to get better, but he is going to continue to miss most of them just like every other NFL QB.

By the way, I think one of the things that got Jackson thrown off the team was how vocal he was about being sick of Foles perpetually under throwing him.



I'd be surprised if that were true.

Last year Foles led the NFL with a Passer rating of 125 on throws that traveled over 20 yards. This year, he's close to the bottom. So at a 125 rating, he didn't miss on much last year. My guess is Jackson fared just fine.

BTW, even more so this week. It's Foles front foot. Never points toward the target, always off at 60 ish degree angle.

I question the coaching. That's Thowing mechanics 101. They need to have someone see that and correct it!! I heard someone say months ago that Musgrave has messed up others in the past.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 1 2014, 09:07 PM) *
I'd be surprised if that were true.

Last year Foles led the NFL with a Passer rating of 125 on throws that traveled over 20 yards. This year, he's close to the bottom. So at a 125 rating, he didn't miss on much last year. My guess is Jackson fared just fine.

BTW, even more so this week. It's Foles front foot. Never points toward the target, always off at 60 ish degree angle.

I question the coaching. That's Thowing mechanics 101. They need to have someone see that and correct it!! I heard someone say months ago that Musgrave has messed up others in the past.


Paul Domowitch did a review of his misfires in San Fran and with one exception he was pressured on all of them.

Last year he wasn't pressured on his deep throws and they were generally STILL off target, requiring amazing catches from Celek, Avant, Jackson and Cooper. This year Celek and Cooper aren't the same players and Jackson and Avant are gone. Most importantly, Nick is being pressured on those deep throws.

Also, Nick's problem isn't so much deep throws as it is really deep throws. Defenses are doing a great job this year of taking away the throws in the 20-25 yard range that Nick excels at and only giving him the ultra deep shots where even when he has plenty of time, his accuracy is shit.

As for Jackson bashing Nick, he did it at least once publicly after the Vikings game. Knowing Jackson, my guess is he was bitching about under throws pretty much every game but keeping it in the locker room.
mcnabbulous
Our old friend, IBM, did a breakdown of every deep throw from last year, as well as a more statistical breakdown of his deep passing numbers. Last year may have been an anomaly -- as KAL references with regards to the difficult catches being required on a significant portion of those throws.

I don't think it helps that he has such a long, deliberate throwing motion. Obviously his Oline is failing him, but he needs to make quicker decisions and get rid of the ball quicker as a result.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 1 2014, 06:57 PM) *
Curious....what makes it such a 'stupid theory'?


Logic, common sense, rational thought, and knowing the basics of football.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 2 2014, 08:32 AM) *
Paul Domowitch did a review of his misfires in San Fran and with one exception he was pressured on all of them.

Last year he wasn't pressured on his deep throws and they were generally STILL off target, requiring amazing catches from Celek, Avant, Jackson and Cooper. This year Celek and Cooper aren't the same players and Jackson and Avant are gone. Most importantly, Nick is being pressured on those deep throws.

Also, Nick's problem isn't so much deep throws as it is really deep throws. Defenses are doing a great job this year of taking away the throws in the 20-25 yard range that Nick excels at and only giving him the ultra deep shots where even when he has plenty of time, his accuracy is shit.

As for Jackson bashing Nick, he did it at least once publicly after the Vikings game. Knowing Jackson, my guess is he was bitching about under throws pretty much every game but keeping it in the locker room.



Birdman420
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Oct 2 2014, 01:26 PM) *
Logic, common sense, rational thought, and knowing the basics of football.



cmon hop, KAL really isn't really off with what he's saying. Don't let his previous antics dilute what he does contribute.

I'd say he's probably right about the constant complaining that Jackson did, and I would definitely agree that Foles is a good deep passer if the bar is set at 20 yards, but when you move the bar to 30-40+ yards he struggles. A lot of that does have to do with his confidence and poise in the pocket and he just looks rattled for whatever reason.

Jackson's deep balls were never under 30-40 yards and to hit a guy in stride that far away moving as fast as he does can't be an easy task.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Oct 2 2014, 04:12 PM) *
cmon hop, KAL really isn't really off with what he's saying. Don't let his previous antics dilute what he does contribute.

I'd say he's probably right about the constant complaining that Jackson did, and I would definitely agree that Foles is a good deep passer if the bar is set at 20 yards, but when you move the bar to 30-40+ yards he struggles. A lot of that does have to do with his confidence and poise in the pocket and he just looks rattled for whatever reason.

Jackson's deep balls were never under 30-40 yards and to hit a guy in stride that far away moving as fast as he does can't be an easy task.


It's pretty well known that DJax was blatantly insubordinate to Chip and other coaches in front of the team, was a terrible teammate, and basically acted like a child. To say that specifically bashing Foles for underthrowing him was a factor is ridiculous. He blew up on everyone after the Vikings game including the WR coach on the sideline, and he never came close to last year's production with McNabb and Vick throwing to him. I'd say if there's one guy in the locker room he may have gotten along with, it would be Foles. Most of the other 52 guys couldn't stand him.

I don't recall an epidemic of Foles underthrowing Jackson last year, he's throwing some poor deep balls this year obviously. It was probably easier to launch a ball downfield knowing Djax was running to it than Maclin or Cooper.
Reality Fan
Really just bizarre reading here anymore....

jackson making tough catches....too funny
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Really just bizarre reading here anymore....

jackson making tough catches....too funny

He had one of the best catch rates in the NFL over the past 2 seasons. But don't let facts get in the way of your always valuable commentary.
nephillymike
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 2 2014, 07:32 AM) *
Paul Domowitch did a review of his misfires in San Fran and with one exception he was pressured on all of them.

Last year he wasn't pressured on his deep throws and they were generally STILL off target, requiring amazing catches from Celek, Avant, Jackson and Cooper. This year Celek and Cooper aren't the same players and Jackson and Avant are gone. Most importantly, Nick is being pressured on those deep throws.

Also, Nick's problem isn't so much deep throws as it is really deep throws. Defenses are doing a great job this year of taking away the throws in the 20-25 yard range that Nick excels at and only giving him the ultra deep shots where even when he has plenty of time, his accuracy is shit.

As for Jackson bashing Nick, he did it at least once publicly after the Vikings game. Knowing Jackson, my guess is he was bitching about under throws pretty much every game but keeping it in the locker room.



Is there a link to Domo's study? Reason being, one of the shows, I think it was Eagles Extra?? showed a bunch of overthrows by Foles during that game and there were plenty with no pressure. They showed pressure on the one INT to Maclin's area, and pressure on another deeper throw, but two throws to Maclin, the 20 yard slants to both Celek and Ertz , another one to Cooper, all were unpressured misfires. For THIS week's passing woes, I'd assign 70% blame to Foles, 30 percent to OL. Last week, I'd do the opposite. Truth is, if he hits on half of those passes, SF comes out of those defenses they were running with their tails between their legs and try something new.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Really just bizarre reading here anymore....

jackson making tough catches....too funny



QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 2 2014, 04:48 PM) *
He had one of the best catch rates in the NFL over the past 2 seasons. But don't let facts get in the way of your always valuable commentary.


I actually agree with both of you.

#1 I never remember Jackson making a really good catch. Those two catches Maclin made the last two weeks were far beyond what Jackson has ever did, skill of catching-wise.

#2 He ran deep, they threw him the ball, he caught it and he kept running. Cliff Branch made a career out of that. If you have it, use it. I do remember great punt returns and very timely long bomb receptions. Anyone who gets 1350 yards must be doing something right.

Projected stats for this year:

Maclin 80 rec for 1412 yards, 17.7 avg, 12 TD's
Jackson 60 rec for 828 yds, 13.8 avg, 4 TD's

And Foles has missed Maclin wide open for TD's at least three times.

So far, if you were set upon not spending and extra $10M in salaries and had to keep one or the other, Maclin is winning in a landslide. Not even close. And Jackson got to run routes for one game against Sconces!!

And Jackson very rarely came back to the QB on play breakdowns, couldn't block me, while Maclin hustles on comebacks and blocks well.

I'll take Maclin, thank you very much. Well actually, I would take Maclin plus $10 M of defensive help, but we didn't need it as our D is too stacked with talent to be able to fit any more talent but I digress......................
mcnabbulous
It's not really a Desean vs. Maclin conversation. If anything, it should be Desean vs. Cooper.

Additionally, Foles seemed to have more success throwing deep to Desean than Maclin, for whatever reason.

My point was simply that Desean basically caught everything thrown his way the past two years, despite RF's assertion otherwise.
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