Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Foles struggles
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Zero
Nice article here.
QUOTE
The Eagles are sitting at 2-0 and at the top of the NFC East after 2 weeks. While we as fans should be ecstatic, the team just hasn't looked right. The defense has had some breakdowns but overall we've seen steady improvement from that unit since last year. However, the biggest question/concern at the moment is the play of QB Nick Foles. While his stat line doesn't look horrendously bad, there is definitely something not right with Nick. He looked more comfortable in the pocket in week 2 and did a better job of feeling the pressure and getting the ball out quicker. However his accuracy continues to be off most notably on crossing routes and passes out wide.

Last year after the horrendous performance against the Cowboys Chip made reference that they were focusing a little too much on Nick's footwork and mechanics and recommended he just "Let it rip". Perhaps with new QBs coach Bill Musgrave in the mix, he's been less willing to lay off on this. I don't necessarrily have an eye for this type of thing but I don't generally see a fundamental flaw in Nick's mechanics. I do think his footwork is a little sloppy and he doesn't always set his feet in a clean pocket. However, he just seems to be in a bit of a mental funk right now where he is thinking too much.

There is no question Foles is battling through something and the hope is he gets that cleaned up and gets more consistent. One thing to note is that the Colts could not apply any pressure on Foles Monday night, so when that happens he needs to carve the defense up. He didn't. You can bet he's going to be facing much tougher pressure in the weeks to come.

I'm not going to comment on the "receivers are wide open all over the field and Foles isn't seeing them discussion". There is plenty of that going around, and while the All-22 is immensely useful I think it is very difficult to rip QB play without having all the appropriate context. There is no question that Foles has left some plays on the field and has missed some open guys (especially against JAX) but there are many other factors that go into this and it's not always as easy as it looks on the All-22.
JeeQ
He lost Jackson and Avant, and they've been replaced with Maclin and Matthews. What I'm seeing is unfamiliarity... he has no problems hitting Celek, Ertz, and McCoy. What I've been seeing is the timing being off... throws are either overthrown or behind the receiver. There's a hesitation there every time which I believe is a product of Foles not wanting to turn it over, and not trusting his WRs just yet. Easily correctable though with more time spent with each other

There were 8 drops on Monday Night and two of them were in the end zone... and very catchable at that... right in their hands
koolaidluke
The Jacksonville game was inexcusable but he did an excellent job versus the Colts. He put up 30 points, despite a dropped TD pass to that worthless homo Cooper. Exactly what else was he supposed to do?

He looks "off" because he always looks like that.
mcnabbulous
I've always had a problem with his delivery. I have a bigger problem when he pump fakes on half his dropbacks. For some reason, he seems to be making slower decisions this year.

Maybe the indecision is also causing accuracy issues? Either way, he's not looking like the same guy as last year. Hopefully Chip can fix it.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 18 2014, 01:21 PM) *
He lost Jackson and Avant, and they've been replaced with Maclin and Matthews. What I'm seeing is unfamiliarity... he has no problems hitting Celek, Ertz, and McCoy. What I've been seeing is the timing being off... throws are either overthrown or behind the receiver. There's a hesitation there every time which I believe is a product of Foles not wanting to turn it over, and not trusting his WRs just yet. Easily correctable though with more time spent with each other

There were 8 drops on Monday Night and two of them were in the end zone... and very catchable at that... right in their hands


I think the article nailed it when they said Foles is trying too hard not to make a mistake, and ends up making about 10. Something has certainly changed since he's no longer "the guy in relief". And it may just be as simple as that. Or rather, we're just watching him come down from to earth from all the hype last season (and some of the deceptive talent the Eagles faced) generated.

Speaking of which, this discussion is entertaining, because I know we'd be hearing more crap if a certain someone else was the QB...


JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 18 2014, 03:45 PM) *
I've always had a problem with his delivery. I have a bigger problem when he pump fakes on half his dropbacks.

biggrin.gif
nephillymike
I just watched the highlights on NFL network of the first two games and watched Roles closely.

One thing that was consistently obvious was that
Foles was not stepping forward into his throws. He was stepping at anywhere between a 45-60 angle. He stepped into one throw Monday, the 1st qtr long pass over the middle to Ertz that set up the first Fg. Even the bomb to Maclin, he opens up. That's basic footwork.
mcnabbulous
That's interesting, Mikey. It's weird that his fundamentals would fall of like that. Wonder if it's a lack of trust in receivers, linemen, or both.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Sep 18 2014, 01:19 PM) *
Speaking of which, this discussion is entertaining, because I know we'd be hearing more crap if a certain someone else was the QB...


That fact hasn't been lost on me wink.gif

Though if Sproles didn't play like Superman and we had gone 0-2 over the past 2 weeks I think you'd be hearing screams for the Sanchize
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Sep 18 2014, 08:19 PM) *
Speaking of which, this discussion is entertaining, because I know we'd be hearing more crap if a certain someone else was the QB...


You mean there was more criticism of a QB that had 1 good season followed by 2 mediocre seasons, and that is putting it mildly, than of a QB that has had two less than stellar starts this season?

I hear what you are saying but I think it is a bit premature to start ripping Foles for his performance so far this year. It is only two games. If after another 5 or 6 starts Foles is still struggling I am sure we will hear the calls for Sanchez.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2014, 10:16 AM) *
That's interesting, Mikey. It's weird that his fundamentals would fall of like that. Wonder if it's a lack of trust in receivers, linemen, or both.

or maybe we all just got "Hoying" or "Vicked". I give Foles the benefit of the doubt, and maybe he's just in a funk. on the flip side; as spectacular as it was....it was only 1 season. Even Mike Vick was able to give us one of those.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2014, 03:16 PM) *
That's interesting, Mikey. It's weird that his fundamentals would fall of like that. Wonder if it's a lack of trust in receivers, linemen, or both.

I think it's a combination of concern about a patchwork OL and pressure to live up to last year's ridiculously high standards.

I did expect his performances to be down but not this much. Still, we're only two weeks into the season and as long as he improves we'll be fine. If Foles continues to struggle then at least we'll know that he isn't the long term answer before offering him a new deal.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 19 2014, 11:27 AM) *
or maybe we all just got "Hoying" or "Vicked". I give Foles the benefit of the doubt, and maybe he's just in a funk. on the flip side; as spectacular as it was....it was only 1 season. Even Mike Vick was able to give us one of those.

I certainly think he's largely benefitting from being in Chip's system. I think with an "ideal" QB, Chip could work miracles. With that said, I think he's better than Hoying ever could be. Vick just never learned how to play QB, but no one had more natural talent.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 19 2014, 12:15 PM) *
You mean there was more criticism of a QB that had 1 good season followed by 2 mediocre seasons, and that is putting it mildly, than of a QB that has had two less than stellar starts this season?

I hear what you are saying but I think it is a bit premature to start ripping Foles for his performance so far this year. It is only two games. If after another 5 or 6 starts Foles is still struggling I am sure we will hear the calls for Sanchez.


yeah. it's like. The Eagles are winning now so it's hard to care... but long-time Eagles fans kind of -know- when struggles in one particular area balloon into disaster in critical moments.

and I'm not even sure Sanchez could be the answer. But whatever is bugging Foles has gotta end, soon... this is his time to make his case for the long-term.
Phits
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Sep 19 2014, 03:21 PM) *
yeah. it's like. The Eagles are winning now so it's hard to care... but long-time Eagles fans kind of -know- when struggles in one particular area balloon into disaster in critical moments.

and I'm not even sure Sanchez could be the answer. But whatever is bugging Foles has gotta end, soon... this is his time to make his case for the long-term.

Interestingly enough, these first half issues are the mirror opposite of the 2nd half issues from last season. We all assumed that Chip just took his foot off the gas pedal. Maybe the problems are more deep seeded. In any event I expect these woes to be a memory before game 5.
Reality Fan
it is kind of hard to take this talk seriously for a guy who has won 2 games with some pretty good numbers.......he looked bad in the Jax first half but he has been decent to good beyond that.....he had some misses that were certainly his fault but his last drive against the Colts he came up with a big throw.....

The talk here is as if the guy has been horrible and they are winning games 10-7.....the screen game is and has been a huge part of this team since Reid was here and Chip takes it to another level....it has been stated pretty well here that he is still out of step with the WRs and that comes from game reps....Maclin was out last year and missed some time in the preseason. I think that will improve....Cooper is a slow starter so I am not surprised by him and Matthews is the new guy so it will take time for him to gain trust....

Don't get me wrong...Foles has plenty of room to improve but he has not been horrible as many here suggest....
koolaidluke
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2014, 05:41 PM) *
it is kind of hard to take this talk seriously for a guy who has won 2 games with some pretty good numbers.......he looked bad in the Jax first half but he has been decent to good beyond that.....


I was thinking the same thing. I just don't get where all this is coming from.
nephillymike
I love Nick Foles as our QB. I think he was underappreciated and overly criticised in his first two years.

But I am concerned. He just doesn't look right.

Deep down I knew he was playing poorly, that our wins were hiding a lot. His PFF ranking is a sign of how bad he has been.

On the positive side, if we are doing this good on offense with the worst QB play in the league, can you imagine when Foles gets right?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 19 2014, 07:14 PM) *
I love Nick Foles as our QB. I think he was underappreciated and overly criticised in his first two years.

But I am concerned. He just doesn't look right.

Deep down I knew he was playing poorly, that our wins were hiding a lot. His PFF ranking is a sign of how bad he has been.

On the positive side, if we are doing this good on offense with the worst QB play in the league, can you imagine when Foles gets right?


see...this is were this place gets silly...."the worst QB play in the league"? seriously?

and then folks wonder why Eagles fans get a bad rap......
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 20 2014, 08:01 PM) *
see...this is were this place gets silly...."the worst QB play in the league"? seriously?


I do believe that Mike was referring to PFF's ranking of Foles which is worst in the league.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 20 2014, 04:49 PM) *
I do believe that Mike was referring to PFF's ranking of Foles which is worst in the league.

The ranking must be and error. Based on his performance, after 2 games, Foles is far from the worst QB in the league.

After a quick glance, I don't see how any of the following could possibly be ranked higher than Foles:

Josh McCown (TB)
Derrick Carr (OAK)
Chad Henne (JAX)
Matt Cassel (MIN)
Eli Manning (NYG)
Alex Smith (KC)
Ryan Tannehill (TEN)
nephillymike
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 20 2014, 03:49 PM) *
I do believe that Mike was referring to PFF's ranking of Foles which is worst in the league.



That is correct.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 20 2014, 04:13 PM) *
The ranking must be and error. Based on his performance, after 2 games, Foles is far from the worst QB in the league.

After a quick glance, I don't see how any of the following could possibly be ranked higher than Foles:

Josh McCown (TB)
Derrick Carr (OAK)
Chad Henne (JAX)
Matt Cassel (MIN)
Eli Manning (NYG)
Alex Smith (KC)
Ryan Tannehill (TEN)



PFF grades each play as to how a guy did.

Foles is 19th in passer rating and 2nd in total passing yards, numbers that would put him way above the bottom.

But they look at reads, completions, missed receivers etc.

PFF ratings are similar to how a coach looks at film and how they "grade" out their players.

A QB who is 2-3 for 1 TD, no INT and 30 yard passing would rank pretty high in QB rating. However, if that guy missed a wide open WR for a TD on that one incompletion, his passer rating would still remain very high, as 2-3 is very good completion %. However, he would get a major hit on PFF rating because of it.

I believe Foles will snap out of it. We need the Old Nick back Sunday.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2014, 05:26 PM) *
PFF grades each play as to how a guy did.

Foles is 19th in passer rating and 2nd in total passing yards, numbers that would put him way above the bottom.

But they look at reads, completions, missed receivers etc.

PFF ratings are similar to how a coach looks at film and how they "grade" out their players.

A QB who is 2-3 for 1 TD, no INT and 30 yard passing would rank pretty high in QB rating. However, if that guy missed a wide open WR for a TD on that one incompletion, his passer rating would still remain very high, as 2-3 is very good completion %. However, he would get a major hit on PFF rating because of it.

I believe Foles will snap out of it. We need the Old Nick back Sunday.

In other words, it's a perfect example on how to use statistics to support an argument....no matter how ludicrous. tongue.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2014, 04:26 PM) *
PFF grades each play as to how a guy did.

Foles is 19th in passer rating and 2nd in total passing yards, numbers that would put him way above the bottom.

But they look at reads, completions, missed receivers etc.

PFF ratings are similar to how a coach looks at film and how they "grade" out their players.

A QB who is 2-3 for 1 TD, no INT and 30 yard passing would rank pretty high in QB rating. However, if that guy missed a wide open WR for a TD on that one incompletion, his passer rating would still remain very high, as 2-3 is very good completion %. However, he would get a major hit on PFF rating because of it.

I believe Foles will snap out of it. We need the Old Nick back Sunday.


and that says how silly it is....Foles throws a perfect pass to Cooper in the end zone and he drops it and Foles is a bad QB...

an classic example of stat geeks gone wild.....a horrible by product of fantasy football....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 21 2014, 11:43 AM) *
and that says how silly it is....Foles throws a perfect pass to Cooper in the end zone and he drops it and Foles is a bad QB...

an classic example of stat geeks gone wild.....a horrible by product of fantasy football....

Nope, PFF gives Foles a high grade for that play
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.