Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Moving the drama back to the hometown
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 11 2014, 07:26 PM) *

Big deal over nothing. So I'll add my 20 cents biggrin.gif

I live in Philly and the word around town is that Tommy Up, the owner of PYT, is a real jagoff. Other wait people, in every other establishment that Shady has frequented, have had nothing but good things to say about him, and they say he tips well.

Shady probably just got shitty service and a shitty attitude from the owner and tip accordingly.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Sep 12 2014, 07:04 PM) *
Shady probably just got shitty service and a shitty attitude from the owner and tip accordingly.


And he should know the consequences of doing so. Even if he's right about the service, it's inviting shitloads of bad press on you. He purposely did it on his card too to make a point, as opposed to paying in cash without leaving a tip, which would've been dismissed as a news story.
Dreagon
I don't know...maybe if he belted the waitress I could see how this could be drama these days. Otherwise, I'm surprised this is a story.
Birdman420
In my former life I was a culinary grad with a major in restaurant management and hospitality. I've worked a decade in philly for people like steven starr, four seasons and other various restaurants.

If I were to give a list of all the shmuck owners that own restaurants in philly it would be endless. So here is my opinion on this matter:

I believe the waiter in this story, you don't not recognize a celebrity when they walk in. Everyone in the kitchen is aware and they step up their game when someone like Shady walks in. It is possible that the service was not top notch and nerves got the better of them which can be reflected in giving an average tip. The likelihood that he got such bad service to give such an insult of a tip is almost nil. You have to remember that wait staff make their living off the generosity of their customers, if you don't tip them they still have to pay out of their own pockets for taxes and other things.

I think Shady was rude, arrogant and an all around douchebag in this situation(he was also a douche on the E60 report). He's a big headed person who knows little about humility and doing whats right even when things are wrong. He could have been a role model and still tipped appropriately even though the service was sub-par and that's what I feel should be expected from someone like him.

Off Topic: The E60 report on him only showed me that he thinks the more yards he gets the better father he is, His idea of integrity is non-existent and he is never humble with any of his answers which suggests that his life after football will be a train wreck.

my 20 cents.
nephillymike
I've often wondered why it is the customers' responsibility to bring wait staff wages up to an acceptable level?

They don't allow me to pay my delivery men below minimum wage and then make it the social responsibility of our customers to bring their wages up to that level by coerced tipping.

Why is the restaurant business treated that way?

For our employees, tips are appreciated and can make a nice percentage of their income. A guy who may make $12 an hour and works on a move for 20 hours in two days for $240 gross but gets a $100 tip from the owner, it is nothing to sneeze at.

Sure the food prices would go up and I'm not bitching, just curious as to why that industry has special treatment.
Phits
If the service isn't up to par you aren't obligated to tip. You tip based on service. As the consumer if you feel that service is not up to par...don't tip. It's been several years since I have been in the food service industry, but I never considered a tip to be a foregone conclusion. I feel that you should earn the gratuity and the customer should not have to justify the amount.
Birdman420
Well mike, I will do my best to enlighten the users of this forum on what really goes on in your local restaurants.

Wait staff are pawns, they are the easiest to hire and fire which means they have very little job security.

They get paid 2.83 an hour because they work off tips, the paycheck they get is a zero dollar paycheck because all of it goes to taxes but because they are getting a "wage" they have to preform tasks for their employer. Those tasks include cleaning, stocking, and doing whatever needs to be done to get the restaurant ready for service(which is more then you think). So basically they arrive and work for free before people get sat at their tables.

If you know a little bit about restaurants I'm sure you would know that wait staff get sections, we call them "real estate" in the restaurant biz because basically what it is is the restaurant leasing out their tables to their hired staff. It's important for a waiter/waitress to understand that they get a limited amount of real estate that they can benefit from on any given night. They make the most of it by learning their job, being on their toes and moving fast so that they can "turnover" the tables as fast as possible.

With this said, it's important for diners to know that if you are sitting at a table for a long duration of time- you are costing the server money in potential profits, there is nothing better then a decent tipper who is quick to dine and leave so that the table can be reset and resat.

What shady does not understand clearly- is that there is an industry standard for tipping and if you don't meet that minimum it's called slander. You can be asked not to return to the restaurant.

It's not uncommon for a waiter or waitress to work an 8 hour shift and actually OWE money at the end of the night, I've had many occasions that this has happened due to customers not leaving a tip at all or under-tipping. Wait staff also have to tip out their "help".

The "help" consists of bartenders(10-20% of the waiters overall tips), Bus boys(10% of the overall tip), food runners(10% of the overall tip). So before counting their profits- wait staff tip out anywhere between 30-40% of their total earnings before ever paying off uncle sam(which by the way uncle sam taxes apply to what the wait staff get before ever tipping their help).

It's one of the hardest jobs in the country to wait on people, you have to deal with everybody's problems, attitudes and still manage to impress enough through your personality and expertise on food,wine,beer,current events, banter and ass kissing. I dare everyone to work as a waiter at least once in their life and they might have a new found appreciation for how hard the job really is.

Shady McCoy is so deluded in his high hoarse lifestyle that he obviously has no appreciation for what goes on behind the scenes. He struck me as the type of person that won't be much good at anything after he carries a ball across the turf. With all the ray rice exposure going on right now I noticed a common theme with people who comment on the topic- NFL players are role models and should act accordingly, they need to think about what happens after football and not get so wrapped up in their seemingly invincible status. There is a world full of hard working people out there and to neglect them because you are "elite" is only going to bite you in the ass later in life, I wouldn't be surprised to see a news piece on Shady years after his retirement about how rocky the road was for him after the NFL.

Again this is only my 20 cents from my experiences.
Birdman420
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 13 2014, 01:29 PM) *
If the service isn't up to par you aren't obligated to tip. You tip based on service. As the consumer if you feel that service is not up to par...don't tip. It's been several years since I have been in the food service industry, but I never considered a tip to be a foregone conclusion. I feel that you should earn the gratuity and the customer should not have to justify the amount.



The american food service industry is one of the few in the world that rely on customer tips. Foreigners that come here are very confused as to why they need to tip and what an appropriate tip should be. The system is broken and should be changed but until it does it's up to people like me to make others aware of the situation in hopes that you dig a little deeper the next time you dine out.

Don't want to tip? Eat at home.
Phits
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 13 2014, 01:47 PM) *
The american food service industry is one of the few in the world that rely on customer tips. Foreigners that come here are very confused as to why they need to tip and what an appropriate tip should be. The system is broken and should be changed but until it does it's up to people like me to make others aware of the situation in hopes that you dig a little deeper the next time you dine out.

In that case, why don't more establishments include gratuity on the bill? Also, why don't they tip at fast food restaurants?

QUOTE
Don't want to tip? Eat at home.

It is still a courtesy for good service. Make it clear that you gratuity is included and enforced on the bill.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 13 2014, 12:45 PM) *
With this said, it's important for diners to know that if you are sitting at a table for a long duration of time- you are costing the server money in potential profits, there is nothing better then a decent tipper who is quick to dine and leave so that the table can be reset and resat.

What shady does not understand clearly- is that there is an industry standard for tipping and if you don't meet that minimum it's called slander. You can be asked not to return to the restaurant.

It's not uncommon for a waiter or waitress to work an 8 hour shift and actually OWE money at the end of the night, I've had many occasions that this has happened due to customers not leaving a tip at all or under-tipping. Wait staff also have to tip out their "help".

The "help" consists of bartenders(10-20% of the waiters overall tips), Bus boys(10% of the overall tip), food runners(10% of the overall tip). So before counting their profits- wait staff tip out anywhere between 30-40% of their total earnings before ever paying off uncle sam(which by the way uncle sam taxes apply to what the wait staff get before ever tipping their help).


Thanks Birdman, good stuff.

1. I never thought that staying at a table long is costing money. I guess that only applies during busy times. As long as I am not holding up someone else taking a table in a full section, that I am not costing him opportunity to make more money as there is nobody else behind me to get in. Interesting point though. I hate waiting to eat and I would think that more restaurants would be trying to speed the process along. I find that most times, I have to look for the waiter to get the check at the end where you would think they'd want to get me out!

2. You have to walk me slow about how as a waiter, I can owe money at the end of the night for a net loss.

I work 10 hours at $2.83 per hour for a total of $28.30 gross wage. I make $15 an hour in tips, for a total of $150 of which I have to pay out $60 to the help staff. That leaves me with $118.30 total wages for 10 hours of work, or about $12 per hour. The $15 per hour tips assumes an average revenue of $100 per hour at the standard 15% rate. If people have four tables of real estate, that's $25 per hour revenue per table. So now I walk away with $90 cash and 28.43 in future gross coming my way, less the withholdings for taxes. How does my net come to below zero?

3. I never thought that waiting was easy. always thought of it as a job with little glory and hard work. However, in the big picture, why is the customer required to subsidize wages up to a legal level? Why does the restaurant industry need to put that burden on its customers? Pay the minimum or more, raise the food prices to cover it, and make tipping completely optional like every other business does. Why the exception?? Just curious

4. Lastly, I would say in the last 5-10 years, the word came out that 15% wasn't the real tipping level recommended. It became 20%. Why? What changed?
Zero
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 13 2014, 01:47 PM) *
Don't want to tip? Eat at home.

Can't agree. You tip because someone does the job. You tip well because they do their job well. If they do a half-assed job you tip half-assed. If they do a suck-ass job you stiff 'em. Just as we should reward good behavior and good service, we should never reward the opposite.

I don't care if you're making less than minimum wage and rely on tips to make a living, that should be your motivation to do a stellar job. I was brought up to tip 15%. My standard start point now is 20%. Then I factor in what I said above.
Birdman420
Hey mike,

I think the scenario for a net loss comes in when the server takes poetic license on explaining how the full weeks work went to bills,kids,drugs(lets be real,food service industry is full of fuckups) and because they don't have a full schedule the week after they are working for uncle sam. It has never happened at any of the establishments I managed, I worked at highly profitable places that had a steady stream of customers.

Hey Zero,

I have to disagree on a couple points- I don't think Shady got bad service even after his company made the waiter uneasy.

I don't know where you guys eat, but you should know that established restaurants have wait staff that are very good at what they do thus deserving of a tip. If you eat at a TGI fridays or a corner bar then you get what you asked for.

Lastly. Tips are their motivation to do a stellar job which is why MOST of them do, But they don't get minimum wage when they do a less then stellar job, they get nothing. Ever go to mcdonalds and have crap service? well you still pay for your food that pays the wait staff right? they are more fortunate for not having a tip system, do you call the corporate office to ask for their pay deduction?

This is how I think about it(might be extreme): Whatever job you do, cleaning streets, mowing lawns, whatever. Think about doing that while trying to make someone happy the entire time you do it, oh and you don't get to chose WHO you make happy because that changes every 30 minutes. If at the end of your shift you haven't done your job to completion and made all of those people at random happy, you don't get paid.
Reality Fan
I have to disagree with you a bit here Bird. I agree it is tough to be a waiter/bartender but I have several friends that own restaurants, one of my best friends owns a bar that is going on 45 years and it is a local bar. The wait staff is good and they make between 30-40K working 30 hours. They are rewarded by a largely blue collar crowd because they take their job seriously and many have been there for 10 or more years. The flip side is those who suck at the job....they should not be rewarded for lousy service. I eat out quite a bit(too much actually) due to my job. I tip 20% as a rule but I often wonder if I am an enabler. I will give you an example from last night. I took my girlfriend out to a place we like. She loves their crab dip and they have good food. She is happy and I get to watch the game with her in a great mood. We order and the waiter forgets the crab dip. Now she is bummed and my enjoyment of the game is in the shitter. I still tipped the guy 10 on a 45.00 bill but I had my work cut out for me after the game....he remembers the dip and I have a great Eagles win and a few hours of post game fun with no effort...lol Should I be happy with the waiter? i should have asked him for money back!!!!


Just sayin.....
Birdman420
You should have gotten a free dip on the house from the manager. Forgetting an order is waiter foul 101 and the management should have taken care of you and made the waiter aware of his mistake so that it does not happen in the future. Restaurants generally take the hit for wait staff incompetence and they will likely comp your meal or make up for it in some way so that the waiter is still shown in a good light in front of the customer. Then behind the scenes he gets a kick in the ass because he's costing the restaurant money.

Like I said before, these people are human and will make mistakes. Most of them aren't cut out for the job because they can't handle keeping their mental composure under pressure or they are pre-occupied mentally somewhere else. When these people make a string of mistakes like that, they are generally fired or retrained. I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best hospitality workers in the world and I learned to never write an order down and never forget. My standards aren't the standard but I still have compassion for those doing the job even if they aren't superstar at it.
Zero
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 17 2014, 10:12 AM) *
You should have gotten a free dip on the house from the manager. Forgetting an order is waiter foul 101 and the management should have taken care of you and made the waiter aware of his mistake so that it does not happen in the future. Restaurants generally take the hit for wait staff incompetence and they will likely comp your meal or make up for it in some way so that the waiter is still shown in a good light in front of the customer. Then behind the scenes he gets a kick in the ass because he's costing the restaurant money.

Like I said before, these people are human and will make mistakes. Most of them aren't cut out for the job because they can't handle keeping their mental composure under pressure or they are pre-occupied mentally somewhere else. When these people make a string of mistakes like that, they are generally fired or retrained. I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best hospitality workers in the world and I learned to never write an order down and never forget. My standards aren't the standard but I still have compassion for those doing the job even if they aren't superstar at it.

This is where we disagree. Maybe the manager should have comped something for the restaurant's sake, but if the server is poor his tip should be poor. It's why I used to hate the concept of tip sharing when I was a bartender. If I do a good job and you're working with me and do a half-assed job why should we make the same thing? Having compassion is different than earning your way. If you're good you make more. If you're not, maybe you should be doing something else.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.