Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Matthews -- I'm gonna say it
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
mcnabbulous
I've watched very little of the guy. College highlights, the first half of the NE game and the first half of tonight's game...

He just isn't a very fluid athlete. He doesn't look nearly as smooth as I would expect for the leading receiver in SEC history.

Physically, his numbers are impressive, but he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that is going to create a lot of big plays on his own. I think his production is going to have to come from Chip putting him space.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 09:05 PM) *
I've watched very little of the guy. College highlights, the first half of the NE game and the first half of tonight's game...

He just isn't a very fluid athlete. He doesn't look nearly as smooth as I would expect for the leading receiver in SEC history.

Physically, his numbers are impressive, but he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that is going to create a lot of big plays on his own. I think his production is going to have to come from Chip putting him space.

Kind of agree, but I'm a DKD. That said, if you're right it doesn't mean he won't be a star.
HobbEs
The kid is a hard worker so he deserves a chance. You don't set SEC records by accident.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Aug 22 2014, 07:52 AM) *
The kid is a hard worker so he deserves a chance. You don't set SEC records by accident.


I didn't suggest otherwise. I desperately want him to become a star. He just doesn't pass the athletic eyeball test that the stud receivers make look so easy.
I first thought it when I watched his college highlights. After hearing all the praise this preseason, I was hoping I was mistaken. Through the first few games I've seen him play, I'm seeing the same.
That's all.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Aug 22 2014, 08:52 AM) *
The kid is a hard worker so he deserves a chance. You don't set SEC records by accident.


Stole him in the late rounds of my fantasy draft. Playing behind Cooper and with Maclin a ticking injury time bomb, he'll get plenty of targets. He looks good.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 22 2014, 08:57 AM) *
I didn't suggest otherwise. I desperately want him to become a star. He just doesn't pass the athletic eyeball test that the stud receivers make look so easy.
I first thought it when I watched his college highlights. After hearing all the praise this preseason, I was hoping I was mistaken. Through the first few games I've seen him play, I'm seeing the same.
That's all.

Sounds like Terell Owens.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Aug 22 2014, 10:54 AM) *
Sounds like Terell Owens.

To be honest, in terms of how he moves, he reminds me of a more physical Todd Pinkston.

I think he'll be a very good straight-line deep ball threat. The difference is that he can be used in the middle of the field because of his physicality and ability to make tough catches.

He'll likely be good, especially with Chip as his coach, but I don't think he's going to be one of those dominating, elite guys like Fitz, CJ, and Andre Johnson.

Edit: Which is a reasonable expectation, given that those guys were all top-5 picks and he was a second rounder. I'm just pointing this out because after all the praise this preseason, I was hoping to see something different.
koolaidluke
Guy does absolutely nothing for me. Honestly, Hank Basket was substantially more impressive. Those bubble screens won't be there during the regular season.

His combine numbers are great but like you said, in so many words, it just doesn't translate to the field.

It's hard to believe that the Eagles actually managed to find a player who is worse than Jason Avant was last year.


nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 08:05 PM) *
I've watched very little of the guy. College highlights, the first half of the NE game and the first half of tonight's game...

He just isn't a very fluid athlete. He doesn't look nearly as smooth as I would expect for the leading receiver in SEC history.

Physically, his numbers are impressive, but he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that is going to create a lot of big plays on his own. I think his production is going to have to come from Chip putting him space.

Sadly I agree.

He will do well in RAC, but I don't see game speed to get behind the defense. He's a 2nd round pick and even with his athletic limitations, his work ethic will make him a very productive pro.
HobbEs
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 22 2014, 12:09 PM) *
To be honest, in terms of how he moves, he reminds me of a more physical Todd Pinkston.


Good grief please don't compare anyone with Todd Pinkston. In fact, physical and Pinkston don't belong in the same sentence...ever.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Aug 25 2014, 08:15 AM) *
Good grief please don't compare anyone with Todd Pinkston. In fact, physical and Pinkston don't belong in the same sentence...ever.

Pinkston was above average, even given how physically limited he was. I expect Matthews to be superior to that. He'll be good to great, but I just don't see him being elite.

My point is that they remind me of one another from a movement perspective.
HobbEs
Pinkston had an above average ability to duck and cover. That's about it.
JeeQ
Comparing Matthews to Stinkston? That's low man...
xsv
Honestly, I know we heard positive review all through training camp, but I'm REALLY surprised to hear anyone was thinking that he might turn out to be one of the ELITE receivers in the game.

When I heard how good of a camp he was having, I was thinking, "Good, maybe we have an actual #1 WR", not "Wow, maybe we have one of the top 3 receivers in the game."
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Aug 26 2014, 03:07 PM) *
Comparing Matthews to Stinkston? That's low man...


Yes, and pretty consistent based on his other ridiculous football points. You're talking about someone who will to his dying breath defend calling timeouts after commercial breaks. Just let it go.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (xsv @ Aug 26 2014, 03:47 PM) *
Honestly, I know we heard positive review all through training camp, but I'm REALLY surprised to hear anyone was thinking that he might turn out to be one of the ELITE receivers in the game.

When I heard how good of a camp he was having, I was thinking, "Good, maybe we have an actual #1 WR", not "Wow, maybe we have one of the top 3 receivers in the game."


He looks good. He'll get targets, and should contribute this year and beyond. Maybe he'll be a 1,000 yard legit #1 in a couple years. The expectations in this city sometimes are unbelievable.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 26 2014, 02:49 PM) *
Yes, and pretty consistent based on his other ridiculous football points. You're talking about someone who will to his dying breath defend calling timeouts after commercial breaks. Just let it go.

The fact that you think having that one timeout would have made any difference to the outcome of that game is why you're the absolute worst poster on this board.

The fact that you guys think I'm comparing Matthews game to Pinkston's is why this board has turned to shit.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
The fact that you think having that one timeout would have made any difference to the outcome of that game is why you're the absolute worst poster on this board.


laugh.gif


QUOTE
The fact that


we're now discussing 'Todd Pinkston and physicality' on a thread in 2014

QUOTE
is why this board has turned to shit.


cheers.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 26 2014, 03:05 PM) *
we're now discussing 'Todd Pinkston and physicality' on a thread in 2014

We weren't. There was no debate regarding Todd Pinkston's physicality. So it wasn't a discussion.

Nice job bringing Andy Reid into another thread though. Just one more reason this board has turned to shit. I sure wish they'd ban you again, zed.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 26 2014, 04:19 PM) *
We weren't. There was no debate regarding Todd Pinkston's physicality. So it wasn't a discussion.




koolaidluke
Pinkston (most underrated Eagle of all time) was better than Matthews ever will be.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 26 2014, 03:56 PM) *
The fact that you think having that one timeout would have made any difference to the outcome of that game is why you're the absolute worst poster on this board.


I know HoP brings out the worst in people, but that type of hyberbole is beneath you.

It is, at worst, the 6th or 7th reason why he is the worst poster on this board.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (xsv @ Aug 26 2014, 03:47 PM) *
Honestly, I know we heard positive review all through training camp, but I'm REALLY surprised to hear anyone was thinking that he might turn out to be one of the ELITE receivers in the game.

When I heard how good of a camp he was having, I was thinking, "Good, maybe we have an actual #1 WR", not "Wow, maybe we have one of the top 3 receivers in the game."


I couldn't agree more. In my tenure as a fan I have yet to see such ridiculous expectations placed on a WR draft pick. Maybe its because he fits everything this city has wanted in a WR....big, tall, fast 40 time, well spoken, hard worker, etc....and now that they finally drafted someone that fits the bill they expect him to be some sort of messiah, idk.

So far, it appears at least some of athleticism hasn't translated to the field, and coupled with some drops and rookie jitters and inexperience people are already hopping off of the jordan matthews hype train. I agree that his tape in the preseason has been pretty underwhelming, but he has improved in each game and I think he can still be a valuable contributor. I don't get all the panic at this stage.

Context and expectations are key here......we shouldnt expect Matthews to be some franchise changing receiver, but more of a solid WR that can contribute with lots of upside.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Aug 26 2014, 07:20 PM) *
I know HoP brings out the worst in people, but that type of hyberbole is beneath you.

It is, at worst, the 6th or 7th reason why he is the worst poster on this board.

That's fair, but I was kind of lumping it into his general lack of understanding about the game of football. Thanks for keeping me in my place though. I'll leave the quality hyperbole to the master.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Aug 27 2014, 12:11 AM) *
I couldn't agree more. In my tenure as a fan I have yet to see such ridiculous expectations placed on a WR draft pick. Maybe its because he fits everything this city has wanted in a WR....big, tall, fast 40 time, well spoken, hard worker, etc....and now that they finally drafted someone that fits the bill they expect him to be some sort of messiah, idk.

So far, it appears at least some of athleticism hasn't translated to the field, and coupled with some drops and rookie jitters and inexperience people are already hopping off of the jordan matthews hype train. I agree that his tape in the preseason has been pretty underwhelming, but he has improved in each game and I think he can still be a valuable contributor. I don't get all the panic at this stage.

Context and expectations are key here......we shouldnt expect Matthews to be some franchise changing receiver, but more of a solid WR that can contribute with lots of upside.

To be clear, I agree with both of those posts. I simply wasn't hearing anyone else state as much. Frankly, I think the ridiculous expectations are more media driven than fan driven in this case. It seems as though everyone here has a level head with regards to his abilities.

Having seen so little of him, and given the hype during camp, I was just thinking that this guy was potentially an absolute steal. I suspect we're getting a very solid receiver. Chip should still be able to put him in position to make a major impact.
nephillymike
Pinkston
Rookie year
61,76
40,45
62,105
55,89
Cut, out of football

These are Pinky,s NFL ranks for his five NFL seasons in yards and receptions. I didn"t list his rookie stats.

He got cut after 2004 and was never good enough to hook up with anyone.

During his time there were either 30 or 32 teams in the league.

The 64th best Is the worst #2 WR in the league.

With his ranks, I don't see how we underated him.

He's a bottom tier #2, who got cut as soon as he left us. Couldn't make another team.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 27 2014, 08:39 PM) *
Pinkston
Rookie year
61,76
40,45
62,105
55,89
Cut, out of football

These are Pinky,s NFL ranks for his five NFL seasons in yards and receptions. I didn"t list his rookie stats.

He got cut after 2004 and was never good enough to hook up with anyone.

During his time there were either 30 or 32 teams in the league.

The 64th best Is the worst #2 WR in the league.

With his ranks, I don't see how we underated him.

He's a bottom tier #2, who got cut as soon as he left us. Couldn't make another team.


We would have better luck explaining to him that calling timeout after the 2 minute warning is bad.
koolaidluke
He never get picked up because his injury took away his speed which was his entire game.

The guy played with McNabb and was used almost exclusively on deep routes, both of which had a crippling effect on his numbers. He was also so slight and frail that he wasn't able to really come into his own until the rule changes in 2004 after which he promptly got the aforementioned career ending injury.

He was a solid starter for his time here and Matthews will never even be as good as Jason Avant.


It's not even that Pinkston was that good, he wasn't. Its that he was solid in his role (deep threat) but regarded as terrible by the fans.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 27 2014, 08:26 PM) *
We would have better luck explaining to him that calling timeout after the 2 minute warning is bad.


First, he wasn't talking to me.
Since you're too stupid to understand the other part, I'll make sure to spell it out pretty clear for you.

Explain to me how getting the ball deep in their own territory, with a max of 20 seconds (if at all) is worthy of holding on to that time out.
They lined up, saw the defensive approach, and called a timeout to change the play. Since it was 4th and 11, having the preferred play call was more important than some pipedream Hail Mary if they had been lucky to get the ball back.
If they picked up the 4th down, they probably win the game. If they didn't, they were almost certain to lose it, with or without the time out.

nephillymike
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Aug 27 2014, 10:41 PM) *
He never get picked up because his injury took away his speed which was his entire game.

The guy played with McNabb and was used almost exclusively on deep routes, both of which had a crippling effect on his numbers. He was also so slight and frail that he wasn't able to really come into his own until the rule changes in 2004 after which he promptly got the aforementioned career ending injury.

He was a solid starter for his time here and Matthews will never even be as good as Jason Avant.


It's not even that Pinkston was that good, he wasn't. Its that he was solid in his role (deep threat) but regarded as terrible by the fans.

I'd argue that a deep threat for the most pass happy coach in NFL history with a qb who threw a much better deep ball than short or intermediate ball inflated his numbers relative to the normal NFL wr of his time.
Zero
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Aug 27 2014, 11:41 PM) *
Matthews will never even be as good as Jason Avant.

Avant did a great job of getting open and catching the ball and he was the most solid citizen one could want on a team. But he also had his limitations. RAC was almost non-existent and I don't recall him being great at contested balls. Matthews is still an unknown. He has the size and straight line speed to have good RAC. We'll have to wait and see how he runs routes and if he improves on his drops. He has the work ethic to do both and if he does could be much better than Avant was.
koolaidluke
I admire your enthusiasm but I just don't see it. Matthews is basically a Torrance Small clone.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 28 2014, 05:31 AM) *
I'd argue that a deep threat for the most pass happy coach in NFL history with a qb who threw a much better deep ball than short or intermediate ball inflated his numbers relative to the normal NFL wr of his time.

I don't have any average depth of pass attempt to back this up, but my memory is that Donovan didn't become so deep ball heavy until 2004. Prior to that, he seemed much more keen on moving the sticks with shorter passes and his legs.

Could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. 'Twas a long time ago, though.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 27 2014, 08:39 PM) *
Pinkston
Rookie year
61,76
40,45
62,105
55,89
Cut, out of football

These are Pinky,s NFL ranks for his five NFL seasons in yards and receptions. I didn"t list his rookie stats.

He got cut after 2004 and was never good enough to hook up with anyone.

During his time there were either 30 or 32 teams in the league.

The 64th best Is the worst #2 WR in the league.

With his ranks, I don't see how we underated him.

He's a bottom tier #2, who got cut as soon as he left us. Couldn't make another team.



laugh.gif

I rest my case. You'd have better luck explaining to him how calling timeout after the 2 minute warning is bad. That game pretty much made my whole year - watching The Walrus whiz a 28 point lead in the 3rd quarter down his leg, culminating in him pissing away a crucial timeout after a 3+ minute television break. And imagining the skull of every Reid apologist exploding afterwards.....

"I goofed"
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 28 2014, 03:26 PM) *
I don't have any average depth of pass attempt to back this up, but my memory is that Donovan didn't become so deep ball heavy until 2004. Prior to that, he seemed much more keen on moving the sticks with shorter passes and his legs.

Could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. 'Twas a long time ago, though.

Rings a bell here too.

I recall discussions about whether McNabb was suited to our WCO short passing game or if he'd be better if we tried a Raiders style long ball game.
JeeQ
Have to say I'm surprised by the lack of love for Matthews... personally I think the kid is going to a be a beast in Chip Kelly's offense... on a team where no WR has had a 1000 yard season I feel that Matthews is the closest one to making that happen
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.