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mcnabbulous
Just curious what the general consensus is, as it relates to the status of the team. I feel like we are in a comparable position to 2001. Just coming off a playoff appearance, 3rd year QB seemingly on the rise.

It felt like in the early 2000's, every year leading up to our SB appearance, we were clearly an improved team. That doesn't quite feel like the case to me this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we were just about the same or even regressed a bit this season.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 20 2014, 10:57 AM) *
Just curious what the general consensus is, as it relates to the status of the team. I feel like we are in a comparable position to 2001. Just coming off a playoff appearance, 3rd year QB seemingly on the rise.

It felt like in the early 2000's, every year leading up to our SB appearance, we were clearly an improved team. That doesn't quite feel like the case to me this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we were just about the same or even regressed a bit this season.


I feel we are on the rise overall, but I don't think we got much better than last year pending how our draft picks do (and we may have gotten worse). We should win a crappy division but that's about it.

The comparison to 2001 at face value might seem valid when just talking about the playoff appearance and young QB, but we had a great defense full of All-Pros and arguably the best special teams unit in the league, and a killer offensive line that sent guys to the Pro Bowl each year. The defense gave up 208 points in 2001 - that's 13 points a game, and not factoring in garbage time, short fields, and that meaningless game against TB at the end of the year where no starters played past the half. We could give up another 400 points this year, and our kicker can't reach the end zone from the 35 yard line.

But certainly you can compare how legions of Philly fans are predicting a SB appearance back then, as they do now.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 20 2014, 10:46 AM) *
I feel we are on the rise overall, but I don't think we got much better than last year pending how our draft picks do (and we may have gotten worse). We should win a crappy division but that's about it.

The comparison to 2001 at face value might seem valid when just talking about the playoff appearance and young QB, but we had a great defense full of All-Pros and arguably the best special teams unit in the league, and a killer offensive line that sent guys to the Pro Bowl each year. The defense gave up 208 points in 2001 - that's 13 points a game, and not factoring in garbage time, short fields, and that meaningless game against TB at the end of the year where no starters played past the half. We could give up another 400 points this year, and our kicker can't reach the end zone from the 35 yard line.

But certainly you can compare how legions of Philly fans are predicting a SB appearance back then, as they do now.

The defense is certainly the big difference between both squads. Our offensive talent is without question better this time around. I never really count on rookies to be impact players, which was also the case in 2001.

I wonder if I'd feel differently about our chances with Jackson on the roster. Right now, I see an early exit from the playoffs. In the early 2000's, I legitimately felt like we were a SB contender. I think we're probably about the 4-6 best team in the NFC right now.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 20 2014, 12:28 PM) *
I wonder if I'd feel differently about our chances with Jackson on the roster


I certainly would. After they signed Sproles everyone was giddy about having a historic offense. A couple weeks later.....

Last year we were 5th in the conference IMO, and we're about the same going into this year. With Jackson I'd put us a notch or two up, but still having no shot on the road in Seattle or SF in the playoffs. For me I just want to see improvement among our younger players, and hopefully something from the defense to give us hope for the future.
Eyrie
Not as optimistic.

Back then we had a top defence coached by Johnson and led by Dawkins and Trotter. Our offense was heavily reliant on a very talented QB who compensated for a lack of good WRs.

Now we have a top offense but are reliant on Foles proving last season wasn't a one-off, whilst our defence remains a concern until proven otherwise.

On STs we had Akers vs Henerey. Can't remember if Mitchell was our returner in 2001.
koolaidluke
2001 was before I got jaded, but even so I was much more optimistic about the 2001 season. I really felt that with our upgraded receivers that the Eagles were Superbowl contenders. The defense was elite.

I feel like the fan base overall is just as optimistic if not more so than in 2001. In fact, before the preseason games brought back some sense of realism there seemed to be a sense that Kelly was the greatest coach in NFL history and that the Eagles were Superbowl favorites.


As for Sproles, I think it was a good move but the guy is a role player. Not sure why people expect such huge things out of him.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Aug 20 2014, 02:07 PM) *
Can't remember if Mitchell was our returner in 2001.


He was.
nephillymike
Real good question and a tough one to answer.

Overall, I was more optimistic in 2001.

A few plusses and minuses:

The 2001 team won 11 games and similar to the 2013 team, came on strong.

The 2001 team won a home playoff game in convincing fashion by beating TB 21-3. Last year, We lost as home favorites in the first round.

I love defense and that team had a great one.

C. Simon was their first round pick and there was optimism and results from early on that he could contribute. Not so much for this year and M. Smith. The rest of the draf that year was poor, while I am more optimistic about the rest of our draft this year.

The 2001 team had a formidable in-division nemesis in NYG. We won the division in 2013 and have a relative easier return path to the playoffs.

The 2001 team was younger and IMO could afford to look on a longer horizon. Their approach in Fa was more consistent with their team demographics. This team needs to look shorter term, given the NFL life spans of their three best players; McCoy, Peters, Mathis.

Also, I was 13 years younger in 2001 and less jaded. 13 more years of no SB championships wears on a fan. However, the Phillies 2008 championship helped mend a crusty heart. 2008 feels like a long time ago.........
Zero
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Aug 20 2014, 02:11 PM) *
2001 was before I got jaded, but even so I was much more optimistic about the 2001 season. I really felt that with our upgraded receivers that the Eagles were Superbowl contenders. The defense was elite.

I feel like the fan base overall is just as optimistic if not more so than in 2001. In fact, before the preseason games brought back some sense of realism there seemed to be a sense that Kelly was the greatest coach in NFL history and that the Eagles were Superbowl favorites.


As for Sproles, I think it was a good move but the guy is a role player. Not sure why people expect such huge things out of him.

Good answer as long as one can be sure that the preseason games actually mean anything. If they are a true indication of how the team will perform in the real games then it could be a big let down for me and a gaggle of fans. If the coaches are working out some things with minor interest in winning the games it could be a different story. It's still too early in Kelly's pro resume to have a good feel for what he IS doing.
Zero
I'm always optimistic. biggrin.gif I'b be more worried right now if Kelly was more of a traditional coach, adhering to traditional concepts of practice, training, player development, scheming, etc. I'm not what I would describe as confident with what we've been seeing but I'm not looking to take a walk out on the Ben either. Tonight's game may not tell us more either ... I'd feel differently if it were Reid as coach because his processes fit more in the norm.

I was flying high after 2001 just as I was in 2005.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
It's still too early in Kelly's pro resume to have a good feel for what he IS doing.


True, but I'm pretty sure he's telling his offense to move the ball and score, and his defense to stop the other team from scoring, and we haven't seen much of either. wink.gif

QUOTE
I was flying high after 2001 just as I was in 2005.


I was too, especially after the season. After the NFCCG loss to the Rams, it was clear we were legit contenders. Then we drafted Sheppard, Brown, and Lewis (specifically to go after the Rams one would assume), and Westbrook too. Going into the 2002 season I've never felt better as an Eagles fan, sure we were going all the way. Then of course, the Rams go 7-9, and we end up shitting the bed against a defensive team that spent most of their existence wearing creamsicle uniforms.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 10:49 AM) *
I was too, especially after the season. After the NFCCG loss to the Rams, it was clear we were legit contenders. Then we drafted Sheppard, Brown, and Lewis (specifically to go after the Rams one would assume), and Westbrook too. Going into the 2002 season I've never felt better as an Eagles fan, sure we were going all the way. Then of course, the Rams go 7-9, and we end up shitting the bed against a defensive team that spent most of their existence wearing creamsicle uniforms.

We were the best team in football that year. The only time that was definitively true during Reid's tenure. It was truly a shame that our most important player broke his leg and wasn't close to 100% during the playoffs.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (Zero @ Aug 21 2014, 06:20 AM) *
Good answer as long as one can be sure that the preseason games actually mean anything. If they are a true indication of how the team will perform in the real games then it could be a big let down for me and a gaggle of fans. If the coaches are working out some things with minor interest in winning the games it could be a different story. It's still too early in Kelly's pro resume to have a good feel for what he IS doing.


Don't get me wrong, I am not concerned about the Eagles pre-season performance because I know it means absolutely nothing, especially re the defense. However, the fan/media hype before the first pre season game was the most that I had ever seen and there did seem to be kindof a return to reality after the Bears game.

Before the pre season I had the Eagles going 10-6. After 2 meaningless pre season games I think the Eagles will probably go... 10-6.

Score 26 points a game, allow 22.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 12:01 PM) *
We were the best team in football that year. The only time that was definitively true during Reid's tenure. It was truly a shame that our most important player broke his leg and wasn't close to 100% during the playoffs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS8VST07at0

Only 59:08 to go after this, what could go wrong? Worst Eagles loss ever.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 02:21 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS8VST07at0

Only 59:08 to go after this, what could go wrong? Worst Eagles loss ever.



True.

Worst Eagles Loss Ever.

I often ask why was that the worse.

Expectations. Almost every Eagle fan, even those still jaded from the '64 Phils collapse, thought we were goin' to the dance.

Remember "We're Goin'"??

The Cold
Tampa's 0-1001 record in the cold.
Our previous success vs. Tampa.
Our great start to that game.

That game I blamed Reid for and I never forgave him. He could have run the ball down their throats that day and give McNabb a fair shot and taken the game away from the Bucs. Never Andy, that passoholic SOB.

With the exception of Dallas losses, I rarely ever rejoice at other's failures. However, to see Andy Reid continue to throw the ball last year vs. Indy, at home, in the playoffs, with a huge lead, and blow timeouts and cost his team the game, brought a deep satisfaction I was surprised to feel. If Andy Reid lost half as much sleep over KC loss vs. Indyas I did that night after our Tampa loss, then I will feel vindicated.

The next year vs. Carolina I remember Jon Runyan saying how he and another veteran OL were pleading with Andy to let them run the ball right at Peppers to give us a chance. ndy never listened.

I always thought that McNabb would be a HOF worthy QB if Andy called a fair game. Give the guy a shot at play action defenses and let him throw against fair coverage and honest pass rush. Not Andy. You can see how wide open those middle of the field passes are for Foles because of our run game. It's a shame McNabb didn't have a shot at fair defenses because his stubborn HC never gave him the opportunity.

Yep. I'm having more warm feelings about that KC playoff loss..............................................
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Aug 21 2014, 06:06 PM) *
That game I blamed Reid for and I never forgave him. He could have run the ball down their throats that day and give McNabb a fair shot and taken the game away from the Bucs. Never Andy, that passoholic SOB.

With the exception of Dallas losses, I rarely ever rejoice at other's failures. However, to see Andy Reid continue to throw the ball last year vs. Indy, at home, in the playoffs, with a huge lead, and blow timeouts and cost his team the game, brought a deep satisfaction I was surprised to feel. If Andy Reid lost half as much sleep over KC loss vs. Indyas I did that night after our Tampa loss, then I will feel vindicated.

The next year vs. Carolina I remember Jon Runyan saying how he and another veteran OL were pleading with Andy to let them run the ball right at Peppers to give us a chance. ndy never listened.

I always thought that McNabb would be a HOF worthy QB if Andy called a fair game. Give the guy a shot at play action defenses and let him throw against fair coverage and honest pass rush. Not Andy. You can see how wide open those middle of the field passes are for Foles because of our run game. It's a shame McNabb didn't have a shot at fair defenses because his stubborn HC never gave him the opportunity.

Yep. I'm having more warm feelings about that KC playoff loss..............................................


I was at the game. After those first few plays in the youtube video, everyone in the country thought we were going to the SB. Then it went downhill. Everyone in the stands (including myself) were screaming about the play calls. Not only the lack of runs, but a lot of screen passes and short passes, the Bucs weren't giving respect to any downfield plays. That was where my honeymoon with Andy ended, and it got a lot worse when we came back against the same Bucs team in week 1 next year and got embarassed 17-0.

Forget about him feeling bad. He had a couple of cheesesteaks after the loss last January and slept like a baby, though I admit it pretty much made up for our loss against NO the same day.
mcnabbulous
You guys think he could have "run the ball down their throat."

They were one of the top-5 defenses of all time. Deuce had 38 yards on his 12 carries after the TD.

That game was all about Donovan's lack of legs. Those are the reason we kept their defense on their heals the previous two playoff games and the reason they didn't fear us in 2002.

That was a very, very good Bucs team. You're not giving them nearly enough credit.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 07:47 PM) *
You guys think he could have "run the ball down their throat."

They were one of the top-5 defenses of all time. Deuce had 38 yards on his 12 carries after the TD.

That game was all about Donovan's lack of legs. Those are the reason we kept their defense on their heals the previous two playoff games and the reason they didn't fear us in 2002.

That was a very, very good Bucs team. You're not giving them nearly enough credit.


Duce averaged 4.5 yards per carry. 13 carries. We also owned them in every game we faced them in prior to that.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 06:49 PM) *
Duce averaged 4.5 yards per carry. 13 carries. We also owned them in every game we faced them in prior to that.

Yes, and 3.16 after his TD to open the game. Right down their throats. 3.16 yards at a time.

You don't think McNabb coming off a broken leg was a factor. I get it. You're an idiot. But I get it.

I just don't understand what purpose it serves to deny how very good the Bucs were that year. Since they won the SB and all...in dominating fashion.

If McNabb had been himself, and the Bucs respected our offense at all, we would have won that game. He wasn't and they didn't. That was the story.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 08:55 PM) *
You don't think McNabb coming off a broken leg was a factor. I get it. You're an idiot. But I get it.


No, you don't get it. You're a Reid-apologist, and no amount of facts or logical thinking will ever convince you of the obvious truth. Morons like you will still defend his calling timeout after commercial breaks, or passing 70% of the time regardless of the circumstances, or repeating the exact same gameplan against the exact same team that beat you months before. But it's ok. Learning to deal with you people has long since been an accepted part of being an Eagles fan. I imagine KC fans will eventually have to deal with the exact same thing.

Now let the men talk.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 08:11 PM) *
Now let the men talk.

Oh, an alpha male type. You fit every douchey stereotype there is.

I suspect the KC fans that watched their offense put up 44 points without their best player probably recognize that Andy Reid was the least of their problems against the Colts.

It's amazing how our loss against the Saints was blamed on countless variables. Couldn't stop the run, Desean couldn't get open, Foles missed some opportunities, etc...

Every loss that the Reid-era Eagles suffered was the result of the guy with the headset. It's lazy and boring. Much like I suspect you are in real life.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 09:20 PM) *
I suspect the KC fans that watched their offense put up 44 points without their best player probably recognize that Andy Reid was the least of their problems against the Colts.


I suspect they're more upset with a 28 point lead in the 3rd quarter being pissed away by excessive passing, culminating in a timeout after the 2 minute warning. They made fun of us after going 9-0 against arguably the easiest schedule in NFL history. Now they think most of us had a point. Good luck next year KC!
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 08:31 PM) *
I suspect they're more upset with a 28 point lead in the 3rd quarter being pissed away by excessive passing, culminating in a timeout after the 2 minute warning.

I really don't know, as I don't follow KC very closely.

What I do know is that you pathetically hijacked another thread on this board to complain about our old coach and talk about a game that happened 12 seasons ago.

Like I said...lazy and boring.

Sure wish we had scored 44 points in the playoffs last year. Regardless of any run/pass ratio.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Aug 21 2014, 09:35 PM) *
I really don't know, as I don't follow KC very closely.


So you missed the playoff game then? That tens of millions of people watched? Hey it's the 2 minute warning, let me jack off for a bit and call timeout..... rolleyes.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Aug 21 2014, 11:19 PM) *
So you missed the playoff game then? That tens of millions of people watched? Hey it's the 2 minute warning, let me jack off for a bit and call timeout..... rolleyes.gif


The difference is that you think they lost cause Andy called a timeout. I think they lost because they gave up 45 points.
But this isn't an Andy thread. Or a Chiefs thread. So I'm done here.
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