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nephillymike
Mikey Numbers will do a little research to put it in perspective, but it was a topic of conversation at a card game yesterday and on sports talk this weekend so I figured I'd put it out there.

First some interesting tidbits I did not know.

1. There are only 10 Shortstops who were elected into the HOF the "hard way" by the BBWA.
2. There are 12 who got elected in either a runoff election or by the Veterans or Old Timers committees.
3. In total, only 22 SS in over 140 years. That's one SS every 6+ years. Tough Club.


My initial reaction to Jimmy is no.

It has nothing to do with his lack of hustle, as much as that bothers me.

He doesn't meet the eye test for me. I never thought I was watching greatness. I thought I was watching a very good shortstop and player, but never a great one.

I saw greatness in Schmidt. Saw it in Lefty. Rose. Halladay.

Not Rollins, Not Utley. Not Howard. Utley is one of my favorite Phils of all-time but not a HOFer.

We're talking creme de la creme here.

A step above Jimmy IMO.

Anyone?
mcnabbulous
I think Utley is closer to a HOFer than Jimmy. Simply from a positional excellence perspective. Rollins was rarely the best 1-2 shortstops in the game at any point. Whether it was Jeter, Tulo, Hanley Ramirez, etc...

I love Jimmy and think he has been a great Phillie, but he's not a HOFer.

Utley was the best second baseman in the game for 5 straight years.
HOUSEoPAIN
He'll be on the bubble and will get votes, but he isn't a HOF'er. If he can put together another solid 3-4 years he might squeak in.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 15 2014, 08:23 PM) *
I think Utley is closer to a HOFer than Jimmy. Simply from a positional excellence perspective. Rollins was rarely the best 1-2 shortstops in the game at any point. Whether it was Jeter, Tulo, Hanley Ramirez, etc...

I love Jimmy and think he has been a great Phillie, but he's not a HOFer.

Utley was the best second baseman in the game for 5 straight years.

Hanley Ramirez? WTF

Rollins has been amongst the best for a sustained period. Hanley Ramirez? Psyche. Maybe Tulowitzki but check back in 6-8 years.

Utley is more spectacular with the baat than Jimmy but stats ain't nowhere close to hall of fame. Utley will need another 5+ yrs to be close. Jimmy is approaching HOF stats in a number of areas.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jun 16 2014, 10:50 AM) *
He'll be on the bubble and will get votes, but he isn't a HOF'er. If he can put together another solid 3-4 years he might squeak in.

I wouldn't say he isn't a HOFer. He doesn't have guady stats like some HOFers but once we see how Jimmy finishes then we can better answer the question. At the moment I would say he is on the bubble. Could go either way.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Jun 18 2014, 03:38 PM) *
Hanley Ramirez? WTF

Hanley Ramirez had a 3 year stretch where he was one of the best shortstops in the game. My point is positionally, Rollins was a top-2 player at his position for 1-2 seasons in his career. That's simply not good enough. He's topped .300 exactly zero times in his career.

QUOTE
Rollins has been amongst the best for a sustained period. Hanley Ramirez? Psyche. Maybe Tulowitzki but check back in 6-8 years.

This doesn't have to do with longevity. It has to do with positional greatness amongst his peers. Larkin is the guy everyone compares Jimmy to, but Larkin was amongst the best at his position nearly every year of his career.

QUOTE
Utley is more spectacular with the baat than Jimmy but stats ain't nowhere close to hall of fame. Utley will need another 5+ yrs to be close. Jimmy is approaching HOF stats in a number of areas.

Utley's career WAR is 60, which ranks 16 amongst second baseman of all time. Only 4 of those guys aren't in the HOF.

Rollins career WAR is 43, which ranks 34th amongst shortstops.

Chase is a better, more valuable player and more likely HOF candidate.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Jun 18 2014, 04:39 PM) *
I wouldn't say he isn't a HOFer. He doesn't have guady stats like some HOFers but once we see how Jimmy finishes then we can better answer the question. At the moment I would say he is on the bubble. Could go either way.


Well if Phil fucking Rizzuto can get in, Jimmy should get 100% of the vote. Of course, it's a terrible corrupt system for voting, and the ex-players who vote are even worse than the writers.
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