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Zero
Sure sounds that way to me:
QUOTE
"About a year ago, I found out what I wasn't good at because [I was] out the door," said Reid, now the Kansas City Chiefs coach. "I went back, and I looked at it, and . . . I drifted away from the thing I love doing most, and that was coaching."

"I took [myself] completely out, dealt more with personnel . . . stopped calling the plays, all those things," Reid said.
Linc ...
nephillymike
Sounds like it.

To get raises people assume more responsibility which allows teams to justify the raises.

Not always for the better.

I would imagine the power struggle with Banner made for a land grab situation that may have accelerated the increase in resposibilities.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 1 2014, 08:27 AM) *
Sounds like it.

To get raises people assume more responsibility which allows teams to justify the raises.

Not always for the better.

I would imagine the power struggle with Banner made for a land grab situation that may have accelerated the increase in resposibilities.

Andy got over confident, but if you trace back it appears the big problem was almost exclusively Banner. I think Reid realized that and in trying to compensate for the train wreck Rat Man became, he over valued or misjudged his own abilities. I'm grateful Lurie saw the problem and had the balls to fire his childhood friend. It's amazing how the power either changed Banner or revealed his insane, controlling personality.
Flying Dutchman
It also lends credence to Lurie's claim that gives responsibility for the last three drafts ONLY, to
Howie. Some had tried to hang Graham, Watkins et al on him as well.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Jun 1 2014, 02:28 PM) *
It also lends credence to Lurie's claim that gives responsibility for the last three drafts ONLY, to
Howie. Some had tried to hang Graham, Watkins et al on him as well.

No Dutch, Howie fessed up to the '11 draft and Watkins.

Tough not to do since he was on archived radio tape explaining his role back in 2011 the day after the draft.

So Howie's got one piss poor draft, one very good draft, one seems like a good draft and one too early to tell draft.

We'll see.

That being said, he is a likeable guy, unlike his predecessor.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 1 2014, 04:30 PM) *
No Dutch, Howie fessed up to the '11 draft and Watkins.

Tough not to do since he was on archived radio tape explaining his role back in 2011 the day after the draft.

So Howie's got one piss poor draft, one very good draft, one seems like a good draft and one too early to tell draft.

We'll see.

That being said, he is a likeable guy, unlike his predecessor.

I saw him talk about being involved but not about having the final say. Lurie IIRC absolved him and said that he did not have the final authority then but ONLY for the last 2 years (before this one)
nephillymike
It's been strongly hinted that the departure of Dawkins was Banner's last straw.

Lurie said he was not aware that the Dawkins negotiations had turned for the worse and he said it was his biggest regret. Sounded like a deal where Joe Low was low balling him and insulting him lke he was known to do and Andy didn't have the balls to step in and so we were stuck with Stacy Andrews day, the worst day for me.
mcnabbulous
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the other side of this. The part about Andy saying he wasn't calling plays and had taken a step back in his coaching duties.
It's literally the argument I was making for five years. Coaches shouldn't be GM's. Both jobs require far too much time and responsibility. When carrying that load, you're inevitably going to get two mediocre performances in those roles.
JeeQ
I think anyone could have told him that
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 1 2014, 10:53 PM) *
It's literally the argument I was making for five years.

As were about 9 million other Eagle fans.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2014, 06:31 AM) *
As were about 9 million other Eagle fans.

Most of the complaints about Reid were related to his playcalling.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 2 2014, 11:25 AM) *
Most of the complaints about Reid were related to his playcalling.


That's because we had to deal with his playcalling and clock management every Sunday, and constantly point out how bad it was to people who defended it. Almost everyone agreed about his GM role.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jun 2 2014, 11:35 AM) *
That's because we had to deal with his playcalling and clock management every Sunday, and constantly point out how bad it was to people who defended it.

Right -- and now it's been made clear that your complaints were misguided.

QUOTE
Almost everyone agreed about his GM role.

That's really not true. Maybe in the final year or so, but for the longest time, people thought Reid should be relieved of his coaching duties and exclusively been given a front office role.

It was really the other way around. I'm glad he finally figured that out. And will be better off for it.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 2 2014, 12:40 PM) *
Right -- and now it's been made clear that your complaints were misguided.

Misguided? Is that meant to be synonymous with "inaccurate?" I don't agree. His clock management was legendary, poor. To play calling, remember the game playing against a statistically bad run defense in strong winds (forget the team) and Andy calls an insane percentage of pass plays? That's only one example.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 2 2014, 12:40 PM) *
Right -- and now it's been made clear that your complaints were misguided.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

It's been made clear that Reid-apologism is a mental disorder. As you were jumping for joy as they handled one of the easiest regular season schedules in memory for a team loaded with Pro-Bowlers, we sat here smiling, reminding you of what happens when Andy plays real teams - and then.....

The Chiefs faced 6 teams who ended up with winning records last regular season - finishing 1-5, all losses coming after his 9-0 start. (Thanks to the 4-12 mess he left us, that was his win).

Then, as KC fans got their first taste of The Walrus, he blows a 38-10 lead in the 3rd quarter, with his signature move at the end - calling timeout right after the 2 minute warning break. Hey KC, we told you so.....

"I goofed."
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2014, 01:31 PM) *
To play calling, remember the game playing against a statistically bad run defense in strong winds (forget the team) and Andy calls an insane percentage of pass plays? That's only one example.


Against Jax I believe - but like I said, it's a mental disorder. Nothing will convince the Reid-apologist, just have fun with it.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2014, 12:31 PM) *
Misguided? Is that meant to be synonymous with "inaccurate?" I don't agree. His clock management was legendary, poor. To play calling, remember the game playing against a statistically bad run defense in strong winds (forget the team) and Andy calls an insane percentage of pass plays? That's only one example.

Did you miss the part in your own quoted text where he said that he had stopped calling plays and that coincided with our team going into the shitter?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jun 2 2014, 12:49 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

It's been made clear that Reid-apologism is a mental disorder. As you were jumping for joy as they handled one of the easiest regular season schedules in memory for a team loaded with Pro-Bowlers, we sat here smiling, reminding you of what happens when Andy plays real teams - and then.....

The Chiefs faced 6 teams who ended up with winning records last regular season - finishing 1-5, all losses coming after his 9-0 start. (Thanks to the 4-12 mess he left us, that was his win).

Then, as KC fans got their first taste of The Walrus, he blows a 38-10 lead in the 3rd quarter, with his signature move at the end - calling timeout right after the 2 minute warning break. Hey KC, we told you so.....

"I goofed."

Given that he took the team with the worst record in football to the playoffs, I'd hold off on declaring him a bust in KC.

I love how he blew a 38-10 lead. Not his players. His defense. It was him. Andy Reid. The guy standing on the sidelines.

He also coached up a team that lost it's best player on the first drive and had them score 38 points, on the road, in the playoffs. Terrible playcaller, that Andy Reid.

I'm not gonna argue with you about this again. Let's see how season 2 plays out.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 2 2014, 02:06 PM) *
I'm not gonna argue with you about this again. Let's see how season 2 plays out.


New England, @San Fran, Seattle, @Arizona, @Pittsburgh this time around. And of course, 2 each against Denver and San Diego. Yeah, we'll see what happens.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jun 2 2014, 02:00 PM) *
New England, @San Fran, Seattle, @Arizona, @Pittsburgh this time around. And of course, 2 each against Denver and San Diego. Yeah, we'll see what happens.....

Agreed. Tough haul. I definitely don't think they were as good as their record indicated last year. They got a lot of breaks with their schedule.

Andy still did a hell of a job. You want to blame him for his defense giving up 35 second half points against the Colts. That's personally not where I would put my blame.

Then again, I tend to blame players more than coaches. Which differs from many on this board.
TGryn
I'll point out that in the early Reid years, when we had a "real" GM (Tom Modrak) handling the draft from 1999-2001, the results were pretty mediocre as well:
QUOTE
2001 1 1 25 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
2 2 24 55 Quinton Caver LB Arkansas
3 3 1 63 Derrick Burgess DE Mississippi
4 4 26 121 Correll Buckhalter RB Nebraska
5 5 16 147 Tony Stewart TE Penn State
6 5 24 155 A.J. Feeley QB Oregon

2000 1 1 6 6 Corey Simon DT Florida State
2 2 5 36 Todd Pinkston WR Southern Mississippi
3 2 30 61 Bobbie Williams T Arkansas
4 4 5 99 Gari Scott WR Michigan State
5 6 5 171 Thomas Hamner RB Minnesota
6 6 12 178 John Frank DE Utah
7 6 26 192 John Romero C California

1999 1 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb QB Syracuse
2 2 4 35 Barry Gardner LB Northwestern
3 3 3 64 Doug Brzezinski G Boston College
4 4 2 97 John Welbourn G California
5 4 33 128 Damon Moore DB Ohio State
6 4 35 130 Na Brown WR North Carolina
7 6 3 172 Cecil Martin RB Wisconsin
8 6 32 201 Troy Smith WR East Carolina
9 7 2 208 Jed Weaver TE Oregon
10 7 45 251 Pernell Davis DE Alabama-Birmingha
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (TGryn @ Jun 2 2014, 03:53 PM) *
I'll point out that in the early Reid years, when we had a "real" GM (Tom Modrak) handling the draft from 1999-2001, the results were pretty mediocre as well:

TG, you bring up a point that IMHO is as important as the "Coaches shouldn't also wear the GM hat in today's NFL".
Modrak, was a typical GM of the times with a great rep and contacts. Still, the science of personnel management
and for this discussion, drafting, has turned a corner and Roseman may be one of those leading the change. I get
the impression that he does a much more thorough, comprehensive study of the player options than the old method
used. As such he also now marries up much better with coach Kelly's thoroughness approach. I even believe that
Roseman's presence in the GM job and his style were one of the reasons that attracted Kelly to take this job.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Jun 3 2014, 03:32 PM) *
As such he also now marries up much better with coach Kelly's thoroughness approach. I even believe that
Roseman's presence in the GM job and his style were one of the reasons that attracted Kelly to take this job.

I think you're spot on here, Dutch. From what I can tell, Howie takes a very analytical approach to player evaluation (e.g. studying success metrics to see what players are likely to have sustained careers). It's apparent by our lack of small school draftees, that we have completely moved away from that direction. Additionally, they like seniors. From what I can tell, it offers a bit less upside, but probably results in more hits.

I think it's pretty clear that Howie was involved with the Brandon Graham selection. He fits Howie's profile entirely. The big difference now is Chip's influence on player profiles. We won't be taking those undersized, physically limited guys anymore. That was Andy's influence on player personnel.

We're going to take a combination of versatile, proven physically gifted athletes with success at big schools. Keep an eye out for those types of acquisitions in years to come.
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