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nephillymike
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/...s-reality-show/

So Oprah's going to do a reality show on the 7th round pick.

You know, the guy who just wants to be judged on his football ability.

I ask my board brethren to educate me on why this is a good idea.

If I were the Rams, I wouldn't permit it. Disappointed in Sam the football player.
Zero
Sam gets his face and story plastered everywhere but Villanueva gets little or no press.
Rick
Disappointed in Sam? Why? Because he's going to try and take advantage of the situation and get paid? He may not ever play in an NFL game (regular season). I don't blame him for getting paid. I blame Oprah and the media for causing this, not the player.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Rick @ May 16 2014, 08:05 AM) *
I don't blame him for getting paid. I blame Oprah and the media for causing this, not the player.


Exactly. No doubt its a circus (and will be even moreso if/when Sam gets cut), but I cant blame the guy for cashing in while his name is big, especially considering how long his odds are of making the Rams final 53 man.

Its probably a dumb idea from a media/Oprah perspective, but I cant blame Sam for taking their money.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ May 16 2014, 07:05 AM) *
Disappointed in Sam? Why? Because he's going to try and take advantage of the situation and get paid? He may not ever play in an NFL game (regular season). I don't blame him for getting paid. I blame Oprah and the media for causing this, not the player.

Ding ding ding.
Eyrie
He's a marginal prospect to make the team who doesn't need distractions off the field, so it's dumb. But if Sam isn't on the final roster then I'd expect the Rams to keep him on the practice squad for PR reasons if nothing else.


HobbEs
http://gifsoup.com
TGryn
Sam's Rams jersey is reportedly a very hot item right now for the NFL. Wonder if he'll see any of the income that he's generating for the league?

For a first round pick like Manziel, he'll get his guaranteed $$$. For a 7th round pick - not nearly as likely.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 16 2014, 01:15 PM) *
He's a marginal prospect to make the team

Which is why he should make as much money as possible in his small window. Once he's an ex-football player, no one will care that he's a gay ex-football player.
JeeQ
I preferred Michael Sam, Football Player over Michael Sam, Savior Of The Homosexual Universe

Heterosexual 7th Round Pick = Marginal Chance To Make The Team
Homosexual 7th Round Pick = Top Selling Jersey, Reality Show, Acknowledgement From The President Of The United States, Non-Stop Media Coverage

But don't treat him any differently... they hate when people do that
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 16 2014, 08:58 PM) *
Which is why he should make as much money as possible in his small window. Once he's an ex-football player, no one will care that he's a gay ex-football player.

All depends on whether his priority is to make it as a football player or make some money.

QUOTE (JeeQ @ May 17 2014, 12:26 AM) *
I preferred Michael Sam, Football Player over Michael Sam, Savior Of The Homosexual Universe

Heterosexual 7th Round Pick = Marginal Chance To Make The Team
Homosexual 7th Round Pick = Top Selling Jersey, Reality Show, Acknowledgement From The President Of The United States, Non-Stop Media Coverage

But don't treat him any differently... they hate when people do that

Agreed - it's just another form of discrimination.
TGryn
Reportedly the reality show for Sam is "on hold" so he can 'concentrate on football.'

I note also that the Rams are one of the finalists to be the featured team for HBO's "Hard Knocks" this year. Having HN doing St. Louis would seem to be a "perfect storm" of media attention, but the league may see it as a way to capitalize on the media attention for Sam by linking his story to one of the league's promotional vehicles.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 17 2014, 04:52 AM) *
All depends on whether his priority is to make it as a football player or make some money.


Why are making a football team and making money mutually exclusive? Suggesting that his life being documented during the process will impact his ability to make the team is purely speculative.
If he doesn't make the team, it will be because his well documented physical limitations. He's was a 7th round pick. He's a long shot to have a sustained nfl career. Once that is over, he'll likely be an afterthought and his capacity to profit from the experience will be over.

nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 16 2014, 09:53 AM) *
Ding ding ding.

Why blame Oprah. It was Michael Sam who told us that he only wanted to be judged on football,, not Oprah. I believed him. Having a reality show makes me think otherwise.
nephillymike
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 17 2014, 07:05 AM) *
Reportedly the reality show for Sam is "on hold" so he can 'concentrate on football.'

I note also that the Rams are one of the finalists to be the featured team for HBO's "Hard Knocks" this year. Having HN doing St. Louis would seem to be a "perfect storm" of media attention, but the league may see it as a way to capitalize on the media attention for Sam by linking his story to one of the league's promotional vehicles.

Good to hear.

I wonder whose idea it was.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 17 2014, 02:57 PM) *
Why blame Oprah. It was Michael Sam who told us that he only wanted to be judged on football,, not Oprah. I believed him. Having a reality show makes me think otherwise.


It's about money. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has nothing to do with judgement. For the life of me, I'll never understand why people are so opposed to football players capitalizing financially within their short windows.

This board is made up of mostly republicans who expect their football players to act like socialists. The league and owners makes money off his jersey sales, if they're on hard knocks, everyone will make money but him. Why do you have a problem with him trying to cash in?

Whether you guys like it or not, it's a story because he's the first of his kind. There have been ex-military that have played in the nfl before. There has never been an openly gay player. It's a landmark situation in our nation's history. In 5 years, no one will care. But it's a big deal now.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 04:21 PM) *
It's a landmark situation in our nation's history.

Take this out and I agree. There's a lot of landmarks that have been hit the past several years, but this isn't one of them. Capitalism is what this is, and I think that's what you're saying.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 17 2014, 05:48 PM) *
Take this out and I agree. There's a lot of landmarks that have been hit the past several years, but this isn't one of them.

It absolutely is. The first openly gay athlete in nfl history. Besides Jason Collins, in major American sports history. This one just at the beginning of his career. I'm not sure if you simply don't recognize the gravity of it, but this is our modern day Jackie Robinson situation.

The fact that people try to dismiss it is a bit strange to me.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 09:02 PM) *
It absolutely is. The first openly gay athlete in nfl history. Besides Jason Collins, in major American sports history. This one just at the beginning of his career. I'm not sure if you simply don't recognize the gravity of it, but this is our modern day Jackie Robinson situation.

The fact that people try to dismiss it is a bit strange to me.

^^Agree with you Nabby. It isn't quite as courageous as Jackie Robinson or Harriet Tubman but deserves to be credited. However, I'm sure the potential financial compensation made the decision easier.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 06:32 PM) *
Why are making a football team and making money mutually exclusive? Suggesting that his life being documented during the process will impact his ability to make the team is purely speculative.
If he doesn't make the team, it will be because his well documented physical limitations. He's was a 7th round pick. He's a long shot to have a sustained nfl career. Once that is over, he'll likely be an afterthought and his capacity to profit from the experience will be over.

We're in agreement that he is a borderline NFL-calibre player at this stage.

If Sam had been an Eagles pick, I'd want him fully focused on football. Since he's not on our team, I'm not fussed if he wants to cash in on his status as the first openly homosexual player but I can point out that it will improve his chances of making the Rams' final roster if he concentrates fully on football and doesn't have a camera following him constantly.

I'm not sure why you think that won't be a distraction for the kid.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 09:02 PM) *
It absolutely is. The first openly gay athlete in nfl history. Besides Jason Collins, in major American sports history. This one just at the beginning of his career. I'm not sure if you simply don't recognize the gravity of it, but this is our modern day Jackie Robinson situation.

The fact that people try to dismiss it is a bit strange to me.

We're making it a landmark. Wouldn't it have been better if Jackie Robinson was just viewed as another player? If we want to treat all people the same, why don't we start doing it?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2014, 06:40 AM) *
We're making it a landmark. Wouldn't it have been better if Jackie Robinson was just viewed as another player? If we want to treat all people the same, why don't we start doing it?


We are just now at a point where a gay athlete is even comfortable admitting as much publicly. And still only less than a handful. Having people face something that makes them uncomfortable is the only way it will become normal.
It would be better if they were viewed equally, but Jackie Robinson played with death threats hanging over his head. I'm not sure about Sam, but lots of ugly things have been said. Both of them showed courage in breaking through their respective walls.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 03:21 PM) *
It's about money. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has nothing to do with judgement. For the life of me, I'll never understand why people are so opposed to football players capitalizing financially within their short windows.

This board is made up of mostly republicans who expect their football players to act like socialists. The league and owners makes money off his jersey sales, if they're on hard knocks, everyone will make money but him. Why do you have a problem with him trying to cash in?

Whether you guys like it or not, it's a story because he's the first of his kind. There have been ex-military that have played in the nfl before. There has never been an openly gay player. It's a landmark situation in our nation's history. In 5 years, no one will care. But it's a big deal now.

This "republican" was the one who was complaining about how the players got robbed IH the last CBA. My gripe with him is the insincerity of his previously stated desire to be viewed as only a football player. I suspect that his poor combine that dropped him from a 4th-5th round pick to a 6th-7th round pick was a factor.

He previously seemed sincere. That is no longer the case.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 18 2014, 08:54 AM) *
We are just now at a point where a gay athlete is even comfortable admitting as much publicly. And still only less than a handful. Having people face something that makes them uncomfortable is the only way it will become normal.
It would be better if they were viewed equally, but Jackie Robinson played with death threats hanging over his head. I'm not sure about Sam, but lots of ugly things have been said. Both of them showed courage in breaking through their respective walls.

Courage, yes. But we don't need to make a carnival of it. I couldn't care less if he's gay. We should learn to focus on how people contribute to society or, in this case the team and stop "celebrating" their differences.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2014, 08:08 AM) *
Courage, yes. But we don't need to make a carnival of it. I couldn't care less if he's gay. We should learn to focus on how people contribute to society or, in this case the team and stop "celebrating" their differences.


Why is documenting his life considered "making a carnival of it"?

He's contributing to society by breaking a known social barrier. Whether he'll contribute to his team is an unknown.

I just don't understand why having a show (not targeted towards us) on a network (not targeted towards us) is remotely an issue. People are interested in him. He should be able to capitalize on that while he can.

Instead, a bunch of people who would have likely never watched the show made a fuss and now he'll lose that earning potential.

If millions of people wanted to watch a show about your life, and you would be rewarded financially as a result, would it matter to you if you considered yourself no different than anyone else?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 18 2014, 08:07 AM) *
He previously seemed sincere. That is no longer the case.


Once again, I'll defer to this point...
If millions of people wanted to watch a show about your life, and you would be rewarded financially as a result, would it matter to you if you considered yourself no different than anyone else?
He was essentially being offered money for nothing. That's not insincerity. That's being logical.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 18 2014, 09:37 AM) *
Why is documenting his life considered "making a carnival of it"?

He's contributing to society by breaking a known social barrier. Whether he'll contribute to his team is an unknown.

I just don't understand why having a show (not targeted towards us) on a network (not targeted towards us) is remotely an issue. People are interested in him. He should be able to capitalize on that while he can.

Instead, a bunch of people who would have likely never watched the show made a fuss and now he'll lose that earning potential.

If millions of people wanted to watch a show about your life, and you would be rewarded financially as a result, would it matter to you if you considered yourself no different than anyone else?

My point is not about compensation, it's about visibility. Why would someone want to make a show about me? No reason. Why make a show about Sam? He's different. Can we please stop focusing on how people are different. This is why we have societal problems, because we look at the differences instead of the similarities.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 18 2014, 08:41 AM) *
Once again, I'll defer to this point...
If millions of people wanted to watch a show about your life, and you would be rewarded financially as a result, would it matter to you if you considered yourself no different than anyone else?
He was essentially being offered money for nothing. That's not insincerity. That's being logical.

If I am an ex con who did something bad and now I am out and I say that I just want to be seen as a football player by others and judged on those merits and then as soon as I get drafted, I agree to do a reality-documentary show which focuses on me being an ex-con football player, then I was obviously insincere on my previous statement. Doesn't mean I can't do it or it doesn't mean that I shouldn't get paid for it. However, it may mean that I made the statement to make teams feel comfortable at drafting me and all along I had intended to do whatever I needed to do to promote my ex-con status.

Not against the law, consistent with the capitalist society we live in but insincere.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 18 2014, 10:36 AM) *
If I am an ex con who did something bad and now I am out and I say that I just want to be seen as a football player by others and judged on those merits and then as soon as I get drafted, I agree to do a reality-documentary show which focuses on me being an ex-con football player, then I was obviously insincere on my previous statement. Doesn't mean I can't do it or it doesn't mean that I shouldn't get paid for it. However, it may mean that I made the statement to make teams feel comfortable at drafting me and all along I had intended to do whatever I needed to do to promote my ex-con status.

Not against the law, consistent with the capitalist society we live in but insincere.

or it could be that option A, becoming an NFL star, was no longer viable and option B, becoming a reality TV star, is now how you intend to earn a living. It isn't "insincere" it is just the reality of the situation.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2014, 09:53 AM) *
My point is not about compensation, it's about visibility. Why would someone want to make a show about me? No reason. Why make a show about Sam? He's different. Can we please stop focusing on how people are different. This is why we have societal problems, because we look at the differences instead of the similarities.

That doesn't mean that we should ignore the differences. It's important that we can identify and embrace the things that make us unique. We don't have to "like" everything that is different, but we can't sweep it under the rug either.

A reality show is the type of vehicle that would allow the 'world' to see that SAM is a homosexual and isn't much different than a heterosexual.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ May 18 2014, 01:26 PM) *
That doesn't mean that we should ignore the differences. It's important that we can identify and embrace the things that make us unique. We don't have to "like" everything that is different, but we can't sweep it under the rug either.

A reality show is the type of vehicle that would allow the 'world' to see that SAM is a homosexual and isn't much different than a heterosexual.

By definition, I believe it's the opposite of heterosexual.

I think your point is that it doesn't make him either a good or a bad person. He ties his shoes the same. He combs his hair the same. He drives a car the same. So why point out what's different about him? Should we point out what's different between you and me too? Why do we care?

Why should we have to embrace anything? I don't care if he's gay, but I don't want to embrace it either. Why should the world care if he's gay? He could be my friend, my business partner, he could be my neighbor. So what? Maybe the people who have to take a shower may care, but that's up to them to deal with. There's coed dorms these days and boys and girls take showers in the same room. If someone doesn't like that then that's up to them to deal with too.

I'm just tired of hearing about what's different between this person and that person. We're all different, that's what makes it interesting.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 18 2014, 12:13 PM) *
or it could be that option A, becoming an NFL star, was no longer viable and option B, becoming a reality TV star, is now how you intend to earn a living. It isn't "insincere" it is just the reality of the situation.

You may be right Phits.

The poor combine could have been the thing that shook his confidence and caused his drop from a 5th to a 7th round.

One of the first mocks I saw a while ago had Sam going to us in the 4th. That was before he became famous.
JeeQ
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 06:02 PM) *
I'm not sure if you simply don't recognize the gravity of it, but this is our modern day Jackie Robinson situation.


TGryn
Even with the media distractions, I would have been happy if we could have gotten Sam as our 7th round pick. If M. Smith is a poor man's Dion Jordan, then Sam is a poor man's Smith (or perhaps Brandon Graham). Regardless of his measurables, 10 sacks and 18 TFL indicate at least some level of talent.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 17 2014, 08:02 PM) *
It absolutely is. The first openly gay athlete in nfl history. Besides Jason Collins, in major American sports history. This one just at the beginning of his career. I'm not sure if you simply don't recognize the gravity of it, but this is our modern day Jackie Robinson situation.

The fact that people try to dismiss it is a bit strange to me.


This is such a fucking ridiculous comment it is mind boggling........besides that fact that the fact that many gay players have played in every major professional sport is common knowledge your comparison is asinine. Jackie Robinson played in a time where blacks were still 2nd class citizens and actively and sometimes violently discriminated against on a very regular basis. Being gay today is nothing in comparison. I work and associate with dozens of openly gay people in my building who experience nothing like what blacks folks went through. Apparently you don't get Bravo or any of the other cable channels that fete the lifestyle above all else.

I guess I should not be surprised that is come s from someone who took pains to point out the "republicans".

Whats next? Should we erect(pardon the pun) a statue for this clown?

David Kopay took this story public in the 70's.......a guy from Bloomsburg U. came out in 2009. Sam is just the first to be drafted....nothing more.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 18 2014, 03:40 PM) *
This is such a fucking ridiculous comment it is mind boggling........besides that fact that the fact that many gay players have played in every major professional sport is common knowledge your comparison is asinine.

Many gay players [who never felt comfortable openly admitting to the sexual orientation]

Don't forget about that part. Hundreds (thousands, really) of professional athletes never had the courage to publicly come out as gay. This guy did. If you can't see that for what it is, you're blinder than you are arrogant.

QUOTE
Jackie Robinson played in a time where blacks were still 2nd class citizens and actively and sometimes violently discriminated against on a very regular basis.

There are several states where homosexuals are treated as 2nd class citizens. They are occasionally subjected to violence and often to discrimination.

QUOTE
Being gay today is nothing in comparison. I work and associate with dozens of openly gay people in my building who experience nothing like what blacks folks went through.

You're so progressive! I suspect there were tons of white people in the 50's who didn't think black people had it too bad either. Certainly not as bad as the native americans, right?

QUOTE
Apparently you don't get Bravo or any of the other cable channels that fete the lifestyle above all else.

Oh jesus christ

QUOTE
I guess I should not be surprised that is come s from someone who took pains to point out the "republicans".

Most people on this board are openly and actively republicans. It's well stated. I just find it odd that so many of those same people regularly complain when an nfl athlete wants to maximize their earning potential. It seems to conflict with some of those fundamental principles.

QUOTE
Whats next? Should we erect(pardon the pun) a statue for this clown?

You're so witty! He's a clown, why?

QUOTE
David Kopay took this story public in the 70's.......a guy from Bloomsburg U. came out in 2009. Sam is just the first to be drafted....nothing more.....

So a retired NFL player and a small school (no chance to play in the NFL) athlete came out as gay and you think that diminishes what Sam has done.

There were black athletes in other professional sports before Jackie Robinson. I guess that makes his accomplishments obsolete?

You're the clown. Per usual.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2014, 12:47 PM) *
Why should the world care if he's gay? He could be my friend, my business partner, he could be my neighbor. So what?

I'm just tired of hearing about what's different between this person and that person. We're all different, that's what makes it interesting.

You don't have to care that he is gay. And you don't have to turn your TV to the Oprah's network and watch it. It's not targeted towards you, so why do you care if there is a TV show about his experience?

Hypothetically, if there was an athlete from your hometown that made it to the pros, I suspect you would have more interest in that. Maybe he's the first guy to ever do it. A local newspaper wants to do a bunch of interviews with him to talk about the combine and draft experience. Then he gets drafted and they want to continue those interviews during training camp. Would you have a problem with that?

Just because Michael Sam's accomplishments aren't a big deal to you doesn't mean that is true for millions of people around the world.
Eyrie
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 18 2014, 07:39 PM) *
Even with the media distractions, I would have been happy if we could have gotten Sam as our 7th round pick. If M. Smith is a poor man's Dion Jordan, then Sam is a poor man's Smith (or perhaps Brandon Graham). Regardless of his measurables, 10 sacks and 18 TFL indicate at least some level of talent.

Getting away from Sam's celebrity status and simply considering him as a football player, I thought he was a 4-3 DE unsuited to a role in the 3-4?
JeeQ
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 18 2014, 01:40 PM) *
This is such a fucking ridiculous comment it is mind boggling........besides that fact that the fact that many gay players have played in every major professional sport is common knowledge your comparison is asinine. Jackie Robinson played in a time where blacks were still 2nd class citizens and actively and sometimes violently discriminated against on a very regular basis. Being gay today is nothing in comparison. I work and associate with dozens of openly gay people in my building who experience nothing like what blacks folks went through. Apparently you don't get Bravo or any of the other cable channels that fete the lifestyle above all else.

I guess I should not be surprised that is come s from someone who took pains to point out the "republicans".

Whats next? Should we erect(pardon the pun) a statue for this clown?

David Kopay took this story public in the 70's.......a guy from Bloomsburg U. came out in 2009. Sam is just the first to be drafted....nothing more.....


Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 19 2014, 10:12 AM) *
Many gay players [who never felt comfortable openly admitting to the sexual orientation]

Don't forget about that part. Hundreds (thousands, really) of professional athletes never had the courage to publicly come out as gay. This guy did. If you can't see that for what it is, you're blinder than you are arrogant.


There are several states where homosexuals are treated as 2nd class citizens. They are occasionally subjected to violence and often to discrimination.


You're so progressive! I suspect there were tons of white people in the 50's who didn't think black people had it too bad either. Certainly not as bad as the native americans, right?


Oh jesus christ


Most people on this board are openly and actively republicans. It's well stated. I just find it odd that so many of those same people regularly complain when an nfl athlete wants to maximize their earning potential. It seems to conflict with some of those fundamental principles.


You're so witty! He's a clown, why?


So a retired NFL player and a small school (no chance to play in the NFL) athlete came out as gay and you think that diminishes what Sam has done.

There were black athletes in other professional sports before Jackie Robinson. I guess that makes his accomplishments obsolete?

You're the clown. Per usual.


exactly what I expected from you.....like I said, only an idiot would compare the 2.......thanks for proving me correct.....I never realized that gays were forced ride the back of buses and drink from separate fountains...apparently you missed the class that taught you about Brown vs. the Board of education in 1954 (7 years after Jackie Robinson played that memorable game) or the Civil Rights act of 1964.....you know...those little things that ended SEGREGATION!!!!

yep...I am the clown...I expect these responses from a progressive.....
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 19 2014, 10:12 AM) *
Many gay players [who never felt comfortable openly admitting to the sexual orientation]

Don't forget about that part. Hundreds (thousands, really) of professional athletes never had the courage to publicly come out as gay. This guy did. If you can't see that for what it is, you're blinder than you are arrogant.


There are several states where homosexuals are treated as 2nd class citizens. They are occasionally subjected to violence and often to discrimination.


You're so progressive! I suspect there were tons of white people in the 50's who didn't think black people had it too bad either. Certainly not as bad as the native americans, right?


Oh jesus christ


Most people on this board are openly and actively republicans. It's well stated. I just find it odd that so many of those same people regularly complain when an nfl athlete wants to maximize their earning potential. It seems to conflict with some of those fundamental principles.


You're so witty! He's a clown, why?


So a retired NFL player and a small school (no chance to play in the NFL) athlete came out as gay and you think that diminishes what Sam has done.

There were black athletes in other professional sports before Jackie Robinson. I guess that makes his accomplishments obsolete?

You're the clown. Per usual.

Michael Sam faced no where near the issues that Jackie Robinson did.

Jackie Robinson was abused because of his skin color. Out there every day for all the world to see and for a bunch of racists to abuse at will.

Michael Sam never had to face that abuse. People didn't abuse him because they didn't even know who he was as he didn't announce it until recently. And now that he has announced it, who is abusing him?? All I have been hearing is praise.

Night and day comparision that frankly disrespects all that a great man like Jackie Robinson had to go through.

Our generation's Jackie Robinson? No way.
mcnabbulous
You guys are a fucking trip. I didn't realize how many of you had walked in the shoes of gay Americans. Maybe you guys are just so oblivious to what is considered discrimination that you can't see when it's happening.

I guess gay teenagers have an exponentially higher suicide rate than their straight counterparts because life is just too easy. They're just bored, I suppose.

And I'm so glad Jackie Robinson helped end segregation. No more segregation!

Kansas anti-gay segregation bill is an abomination: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02...bomination.html

He's breaking a huge social barrier. We are just in the first stages. He hasn't even had his first practice yet, but you guys have declared it a victory.

Hopefully he doesn't see anywhere near the hate that Jackie Robinson experienced. Like I said, it's a "modern version." I would hope that our society would be a bit more civil and cultured 50 years later. That doesn't mean it's easy. Nor does it mean he's not brave for facing it head on.

Have you noticed how many other gay nfl players have come out? You still think he's the only one? It's so easy that literally no one else is doing it.
Zero
IMO, this thread has evolved into a difference of opinion ... period. We should accept that as reality and move on. Last I heard there is no definitive "right" or "wrong."
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2014, 08:11 AM) *
Have you noticed how many other gay nfl players have come out? You still think he's the only one? It's so easy that literally no one else is doing it.


Or maybe announcing to the world what they do in their bedroom is nobody else's business, because they have a job to do?

Comparing Sam to Jackie Robinson is ridiculous and offensive, but let's not forget this one from your boy earlier.....

QUOTE
It isn't quite as courageous as Jackie Robinson or Harriet Tubman but deserves to be credited.


Yes, well put - telling the world that you put it into the stink and not the pink before you're hopefully drafted into a billion dollar industry isn't QUITE as courageous as escaping from a plantation as a slave, running hundreds of miles avoiding capture, and then making over a dozen return trips on foot to rescue other slaves and guide them to freedom under the constant threat of capture and sure death.

This is why we can't have nice things, and why identity politics (the left's main tactic) has divided the entire country. It's worth pointing out that these unbelievably stupid comparisons come from those who are quickest to pull the race card on those who disagree with them.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 20 2014, 10:03 AM) *
Or maybe announcing to the world what they do in their bedroom is nobody else's business, because they have a job to do?

You realize he largely came out publicly because he was going to be outed, right? Because other people do care.

It's absolutely comparable to Jackie Robinson. As I said, our country has thankfully progressed so that he likely won't be getting verbally harassed to the extent that Robinson was, but that will inevitably happen too.

But yeah, everyone is just saying such positive things. It's all praise...

QUOTE
I am boycotting watching the NFL from now on after having to put up with three days of seeing and hearing about an open degenerate being loosed on the NFL. It's just wrong on every level.


http://www.ydr.com/letters/ci_25765601/for...kiss-disgusting
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 20 2014, 11:03 AM) *
It's worth pointing out that these unbelievably stupid comparisons come from those who are quickest to pull the race card on those who disagree with them.

What is the race card?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ May 20 2014, 11:31 AM) *
What is the race card?

You'll get a sensible answer to that when I find out exactly why Michael Sam is a clown.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2014, 07:11 AM) *
You guys are a fucking trip. I didn't realize how many of you had walked in the shoes of gay Americans. Maybe you guys are just so oblivious to what is considered discrimination that you can't see when it's happening.

I guess gay teenagers have an exponentially higher suicide rate than their straight counterparts because life is just too easy. They're just bored, I suppose.

And I'm so glad Jackie Robinson helped end segregation. No more segregation!

Kansas anti-gay segregation bill is an abomination: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02...bomination.html

He's breaking a huge social barrier. We are just in the first stages. He hasn't even had his first practice yet, but you guys have declared it a victory.

Hopefully he doesn't see anywhere near the hate that Jackie Robinson experienced. Like I said, it's a "modern version." I would hope that our society would be a bit more civil and cultured 50 years later. That doesn't mean it's easy. Nor does it mean he's not brave for facing it head on.

Have you noticed how many other gay nfl players have come out? You still think he's the only one? It's so easy that literally no one else is doing it.



I don't see this gay bashing. My kids are in HS and college and kids are very open with that. They talk about so many kids being gay it amazes me how open they are. FWIW, they go to Catholic schools and I would think if it is open in that environment it speaks volumes of society in general. When I was in HS over thirty years ago, I knew nobody who was an admitted homosexual. There were four guys and one girl I suspected were and all eventually came out, some not until their 30's. Today, people come out much earlier. It's not a big thing.

At work, I deal with interior designers where the overwhelming norm if your male is to be gay. There's about an 80% gay male rate in that field (oddly enough, I know no gay female designers). Back in the 80's it was rare that the designers felt comfortable to come out.

A football player comes out while active. It's a first. But the fact that others have come out after they played blunts the impact IMO. Also, football is not an occupation that attracts gays to the extent that some others do (designers for instance). so sure there are a few, but not likely many active gays in the NFL now. Of the gay males my kids know in HS, none of them played football, and only one played sports, a golfer.

I just don't see it as the big deal that you see it as. If it was the 80's, sure. The 90's, maybe.

Now, the guy is praised by the mass media and seemingly most of the public.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 20 2014, 08:32 PM) *
I don't see this gay bashing. My kids are in HS and college and kids are very open with that. They talk about so many kids being gay it amazes me how open they are. FWIW, they go to Catholic schools and I would think if it is open in that environment it speaks volumes of society in general. When I was in HS over thirty years ago, I knew nobody who was an admitted homosexual. There were four guys and one girl I suspected were and all eventually came out, some not until their 30's. Today, people come out much earlier. It's not a big thing.

Think you're dealing with a small sample size. Mikey Numbers should know better smile.gif

Obviously views are progressing on the issue, especially amongst their teen peers. The overall stats suggest that gay teens are 3-5 times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts. It's still a very serious issue. It may not be the result of bashing from their peers, but rather family related issues.

Just consider the stuff that Sam's father said about him prior to the draft.

Once again, why you guys are downplaying it, considering he's still the only active nfl player to come out, is a bit strange to me. There have been a number of people who have credited him with giving them the courage to come out. That number will only continue to grow.

Just because it's not important to you guys, doesn't mean it's not hugely important to millions. That's really what this all comes down to.
Pila
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 21 2014, 01:32 AM) *
I don't see this gay bashing. My kids are in HS and college and kids are very open with that. They talk about so many kids being gay it amazes me how open they are. FWIW, they go to Catholic schools and I would think if it is open in that environment it speaks volumes of society in general. When I was in HS over thirty years ago, I knew nobody who was an admitted homosexual. There were four guys and one girl I suspected were and all eventually came out, some not until their 30's. Today, people come out much earlier. It's not a big thing.

At work, I deal with interior designers where the overwhelming norm if your male is to be gay. There's about an 80% gay male rate in that field (oddly enough, I know no gay female designers). Back in the 80's it was rare that the designers felt comfortable to come out.

A football player comes out while active. It's a first. But the fact that others have come out after they played blunts the impact IMO. Also, football is not an occupation that attracts gays to the extent that some others do (designers for instance). so sure there are a few, but not likely many active gays in the NFL now. Of the gay males my kids know in HS, none of them played football, and only one played sports, a golfer.

I just don't see it as the big deal that you see it as. If it was the 80's, sure. The 90's, maybe.

Now, the guy is praised by the mass media and seemingly most of the public.

Well, isn't that easy for you to say?

You know how many decades I've been hearing this in regards to being black?

It's one thing to say that it has gotten better (And it has. Much, much better. For both, gays and those of color.), but it's quite another to dismiss it. That's just incredibly naive and convenient. At best.

I think we'll eventually get there. But not by sweeping it under the rug or diminishing it by pretending it isn't a big deal. But rather, by recognizing that there is still a lot of work to be done. Recognizing what Sam did is part of the stepping stone forward - like Jackie before him helped get past the first social stigma onto the long road to general social acceptance. We didn't get there by dismissing how important of a step Jackie took.
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