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nephillymike
From the nine sites I follwed this year for the draft compilaion I do:

ESPN- 110
NFL.com - 55
Nat'l Football Post - 303
Draftscout (CBS) - 57
Clescout - >150
WalterFootball - 84
Draft101 - >100
DraftGeek - 81
Drafttek - 60
Drafttek has him as purely a 43DE. Normally they list multiple positions if projected. Don't know why just 43DE.

It's a reach for sure. Hey, 3rd rounders can play too. 3rd rounders who are picked i the first round better be able to!
JaxEagle
Yep. That about sums it up. We made the exact same stupid fucking mistake as Jacksonville. I'm all for taking the guy but I just want to take him somewhere close to where he is projected. Is he so good that we couldn't risk someone else having reached for him? I mean, we pick again in the 50's which is higher than anybody had him projected. Will Marquise Lee (or similar) be there for our second rounder? Probably not.
Zero
Like I said earlier, it seems for this administration scheme fit is essential. Who else was there? I just read Lawlor's analysis and I copied Mayock's brief thoughts. The point it seems to come to is "value", and we don't know if the Eagles tried trading down again or not. How did the Eagles rate Smith for what they want to do with him? Again, who else should they have taken at 26?
Zero
QUOTE
Most fans probably thought then they were getting Lee, who went undrafted last night, or Benjamin, who went 28th to Carolina. Instead, they listened to the announcement of Smith, and to analysts calling their teamís pick a reach. Of course, the same people thought defensive end/linebacker Bruce Irvin was a reach at 15th overall for Seattle in 2012, and Irvin is a star for the team that just won the Super Bowl. But Eagles fans are more familiar with Jon Harris, the 1997 Eaglesí first-round selection, 25th overall, who was considered a third-round prospect by everyone except then-coach Ray Rhodes, and turned out to be not even that good.

Linc ...

You just don't know. These aren't the same people who drafted Harris. They're not the same group who drafted Graham, some remain but the decision makers are different. Slam them if it makes you feel better, but I still like Chip, I like Gamble and Howie's growing on me. I'm in "show me" mode.
make_it_rain
Its really easy to just throw numbers around you pulled from websites, but the question remains: what would you have done at 26?

Take a look at who went afterwards, or who is still available. Is there someone that jumps out as a can't miss?

Lee? Lots of teams with WR needs behind us, including teams with SB rings, passed on him. Not like he got snatched up.

Roby? Ealy? I guess. I wasnt very high on Roby and I'm not sure about how much Ealy fits.

Once you get to 26, you're effectively sliding into the second round anyway..would you rather they have reached for someone like Jimmie Ward or Bucanon?

There are a few viable options that could have made sense, in my mind:

  • Stay put at 22 and take Denard. I think the value of getting the extra 3rd to move back is too much to pass up though.
  • Trade up a spot or two and take Dix. I can get on board with that. Im guessing they didnt want to give up picks to go after who they viewed as the top safety in a so-so class. Supposedly GB wanted a third to trade out of that pick, which is ridiculous.


So at 26, most likely all of the guys they had targeted originally at 22 (I'm guessing Cooks, Beckham, Fuller) were gone, so you take what the board gives you, or trade back. Obviously no offer came, so they took the highest rated OLB pass rusher on the board.

Its a surprising pick, but not this huge travesty everyone is making it out to be.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 9 2014, 07:14 AM) *
Its really easy to just throw numbers around you pulled from websites, but the question remains: what would you have done at 26?

Take a look at who went afterwards, or who is still available. Is there someone that jumps out as a can't miss?

Lee? Lots of teams with WR needs behind us, including teams with SB rings, passed on him. Not like he got snatched up.

Roby? Ealy? I guess. I wasnt very high on Roby and I'm not sure about how much Ealy fits.

Once you get to 26, you're effectively sliding into the second round anyway..would you rather they have reached for someone like Jimmie Ward or Bucanon?

There are a few viable options that could have made sense, in my mind:

  • Stay put at 22 and take Denard. I think the value of getting the extra 3rd to move back is too much to pass up though.
  • Trade up a spot or two and take Dix. I can get on board with that. Im guessing they didnt want to give up picks to go after who they viewed as the top safety in a so-so class. Supposedly GB wanted a third to trade out of that pick, which is ridiculous.


So at 26, most likely all of the guys they had targeted originally at 22 (I'm guessing Cooks, Beckham, Fuller) were gone, so you take what the board gives you, or trade back. Obviously no offer came, so they took the highest rated OLB pass rusher on the board.

Its a surprising pick, but not this huge travesty everyone is making it out to be.


Pretty much all of this. The one key is that I think they value Smith's position more than all those others. I suspect Barr was the #1 target. He went off the board at #9. Some people thought he might be available at #22.
That's what happens with pass rushers. They get drafted early and often.
Then again, Eagles fans consistently want road grading interior offensive linemen in the first round, so I shouldn't be surprised with the irrational narrative.
Watch him play a little bit. The guy has major ability at the second most valuable position on the field.
Dreagon
The later you get into the first round, it more it starts to become as much about how a player fits what you're trying to do as it is about his ranking. The universally acclaimed "studs" are off the board, so now your more focused on finding the right guy for you. This is why trading down in the latter half of the first round often works well for the team doing it. And don't get distracted by claims of "we could have had him in the second round" because you really don't know that. In the first round, the main thing you are hunting for is that player that can help you this year, and it doesn't matter where he may be ranked as an overall player.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 9 2014, 08:14 AM) *
Once you get to 26, you're effectively sliding into the second round anyway..would you rather they have reached for someone
like Jimmie Ward or Bucanon?


Hollis Thomas was saying watching Bucannon was like watching Brian Dawkins play. Now that may not mean shit, but he was
taken right after us by the Cardinals, who could contend this year (especially if he is an impact safety).

I'm neutral towards this pick, and frankly I'm relieved that it appears we still take defense seriously and aren't just about
building the power O. Smith was interviewed by Cataldi this morning and was very impressive, said all the right things and
appeared to have a great attitude.
D Rock
QUOTE (Dreagon @ May 9 2014, 01:54 PM) *
The later you get into the first round, it more it starts to become as much about how a player fits what you're trying to do as it is about his ranking. The universally acclaimed "studs" are off the board, so now your more focused on finding the right guy for you. This is why trading down in the latter half of the first round often works well for the team doing it. And don't get distracted by claims of "we could have had him in the second round" because you really don't know that. In the first round, the main thing you are hunting for is that player that can help you this year, and it doesn't matter where he may be ranked as an overall player.

Sez the guy who's team took an interior O lineman in the 1st round 2 years in a row.

laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 9 2014, 08:53 AM) *
Hollis Thomas was saying watching Bucannon was like watching Brian Dawkins play.

rolleyes.gif

"Next Dawkins"
make_it_rain
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 9 2014, 09:53 AM) *
Hollis Thomas was saying watching Bucannon was like watching Brian Dawkins play. Now that may not mean shit, but he was
taken right after us by the Cardinals, who could contend this year (especially if he is an impact safety).



I would have been OK with a Bucannon pick too. Pass rush OLB imo is more of a need than safety so thats why Im OK with the Smith pick, even if it was a reach. Given who was available, I think its fine. Bucannon, Ward, Shazier, Smith, etc moving into the first round illustrates the premium placed on safeties and guys who can pass rush in this years draft. If you want one of the higher end guys at those positions and youre not certain he'll be there in round 2 or you can deal back, then pull the trigger.

The real question is not who was taken with 26, but whether it would have made more sense to stay put at 22 and take someone like Denard or Dee Ford, or whether you try to move up a spot and get Dix. Thats the much more interesting debate, imo

In this draft though, I dont know how you turn down an extra 3rd to move down four spots though, so hence I'm OK. *shrug*
Dreagon
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 9 2014, 10:24 AM) *
Sez the guy who's team took an interior O lineman in the 1st round 2 years in a row.

laugh.gif


And it worked out well, that's part of my point. There were arguments that Fredericks could have been taken later in the second round, but he was the top center in the draft so that wasn't a sure thing... and he did end up starting and performing well in his first year. That meets the criteria for success when it comes to a first rounder, especially a late one, so I realized I couldn't complain. The fact that Jones passed up the sexy pick to put who many rated as the top interior lineman prospect from this year next to Fredericks makes me wonder if somebody else is finally getting more say in the drafting. Or at least maybe they are thinking of taking their running game seriously again.

So don't judge Smith just because some people had him rated later. He was rated high enough, and much of it depends on what Kelly wants to do with him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dreagon @ May 9 2014, 10:45 AM) *
And it worked out well, that's part of my point. There were arguments that Fredericks could have been taken later in the second round, but he was the top center in the draft so that wasn't a sure thing... and he did end up starting and performing well in his first year. That meets the criteria for success when it comes to a first rounder, especially a late one, so I realized I couldn't complain. The fact that Jones passed up the sexy pick to put who many rated as the top interior lineman prospect from this year next to Fredericks makes me wonder if somebody else is finally getting more say in the drafting. Or at least maybe they are thinking of taking their running game seriously again.

So don't judge Smith just because some people had him rated later. He was rated high enough, and much of it depends on what Kelly wants to do with him.

Spending high draft picks on "safe" offensive linemen is a way to build a really mediocre team.
Aitkens
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 9 2014, 11:55 AM) *
Spending high draft picks on "safe" offensive linemen is a way to build a really mediocre team.



Especially considering just how bad the Cowboys defense is, and it's HUGE need for defensive line and safety. Ranked 32nd in yards allowed per game, and ranked 26th in points allowed per game. They drafted a guy that is best suited to play inside at Guard, not on the outside at Tackle.
Dreagon
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 9 2014, 10:55 AM) *
Spending high draft picks on "safe" offensive linemen is a way to build a really mediocre team.


Doing things like trading up to get the sexy pick at cornerback is how we DID build a mediocre team. Considering our track record, I think taking the safe pick this year and last year might offer room for hope.
JeeQ
Zero
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 9 2014, 11:41 AM) *
I would have been OK with a Bucannon pick too. Pass rush OLB imo is more of a need than safety so thats why Im OK with the Smith pick, even if it was a reach. Given who was available, I think its fine. Bucannon, Ward, Shazier, Smith, etc moving into the first round illustrates the premium placed on safeties and guys who can pass rush in this years draft. If you want one of the higher end guys at those positions and youre not certain he'll be there in round 2 or you can deal back, then pull the trigger.

The real question is not who was taken with 26, but whether it would have made more sense to stay put at 22 and take someone like Denard or Dee Ford, or whether you try to move up a spot and get Dix. Thats the much more interesting debate, imo

In this draft though, I dont know how you turn down an extra 3rd to move down four spots though, so hence I'm OK. *shrug*

I agree with you, but "reach" is a popular term, especially with the Eagles; especially now. Does it just mean that a player was taken earlier than projected? If yes, how much earlier before it qualifies as a "reach?" Or does it mean the team picking the player could have gotten the player with one of their later picks? How do people know that?

Obviously, teams rate the players and partly on how a player will fit into their system. Mamula may have been a solid pick as a 3-4 OLB but has been roundly labeled a bust in the Eagles 4-3. Consequently he was a "reach." Most reviews I read on Smith had him listed as a DE tweener.
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