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Zero
The Eagles traded down, got a high third rounder and didn't draft Manziel!!! Don't know about Smith, but they needed help there and they'll have WRs to grab later. Damn, I'm glad they passed on Manziel!
JaxEagle
Smith is 20 lbs lighter than Clowney and ran .2 slower. Yet Smith's athletic ability is the wow factor. Ok. Hopefully he is a football player!
nephillymike
83rd best prospect, drafted 26th.

At least they didn't cut Foles and draft Manziel.

Good night.
Reality Fan
the more things change the more they stay the same.....

just a bizarre pick...
JeeQ
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 8 2014, 08:26 PM) *
83rd best prospect, drafted 26th.

At least they didn't cut Foles and draft Manziel.

Good night.


Stretch-Armstrong Level Reach

Daniel Te'o-Neisheim Version 2.0

Actually that's a bit harsh...

Brandon Graham Version 2.0

There we go...
Phits
QUOTE
Marcus Smith, DE/OLB, Louisville
Height: 6-3. Weight: 251.
40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2014): 1-3.
5/5/14: In a draft that lacks pass-rushing talent, Smith has had a late rise. Some feel he could go late in the first round.

The Cardinals had a tough defense in 2013, and Smith was the leader of the unit. He was the American Conference Defensive Player of the Year as he finished the season with 14.5 sacks for Louisville. Smith also had 42 tackles with 18.5 tackles for a loss, four forced fumbles and three passes broken up. The senior's sack total put him second in the nation behind only Stanford's Trent Murphy.

Smith had multi-sack games against Florida International, Rutgers, South Florida, Connecticut and Miami. He then held his own at the Senior Bowl and did well at the Combine. Smith's stock has been rising down the home stretch.

Smith collected four sacks and 5.5 sacks as a junior and sophomore, respectively. He played defensive end for the Cardinals, but in the NFL, he will have to move to outside linebacker. Smith would fit best as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense.
mcnabbulous
The pick was fine. He had 14.5 sacks last year. He's a pass rushing OLB which is possibly our biggest need.

You guys are weirdos.
JeeQ
Off-Season Moves:

Release Pro-Bowl WR
Sign Injured QB No Other Team Wants
Trade Back In The 1st Round To Draft Projected 3rd Rounder

#GoldStandard
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JeeQ @ May 8 2014, 10:36 PM) *
Stretch-Armstrong Level Reach

Daniel Te'o-Neisheim Version 2.0

Actually that's a bit harsh...

Brandon Graham Version 2.0

There we go...


Those guys were all maxed out physically. Smith isn't.
JeeQ
We drafted a player who wasn't even at the damn draft...

But at least we saved money by not having to give him a hat and jersey

#GoldStandard
make_it_rain
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 8 2014, 11:26 PM) *
83rd best prospect, drafted 26th.

At least they didn't cut Foles and draft Manziel.

Good night.


It's a reach for sure, but I'm not quite ready to declare it the travesty some are already making it out to be.

He fills a big need and is very athletic and respectable in coverage. For everyone so sure he would still have been there in the 2nd I'm not sure thats the case. Lots of teams decided to go HAM and pull the trigger on guys a lot of the draft reports had going in the 2nd....Shazier, Ward, Bucannon, etc.

sticks n skins
It's a reach, that's for sure. Hopefully it works out.
mcnabbulous
What constitutes it being a reach? What if another team in the first round was interested? There are few other OLB pass rushers that fit his mold in the draft. What players taken between 27-32 were dramatically more sensible than Smith?

The idea of a pass rusher being a reach in any draft is silly. It's arguably the second most valued skillset in football.
JeeQ
QUOTE
Derek Forest ‏@WLKYDerek
Marcus Smith said earlier today his dream is to play for the Dallas Cowboys.


I say we cut him right now... not from the team... literally cut him... may I recommend a large blade, possibly a katana
sticks n skins
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 8 2014, 09:08 PM) *
What constitutes it being a reach? What if another team in the first round was interested? There are few other OLB pass rushers that fit his mold in the draft. What players taken between 27-32 were dramatically more sensible than Smith?

The idea of a pass rusher being a reach in any draft is silly. It's arguably the second most valued skillset in football.

Projected high 2nd/low 3rd, drafted high 1st...

Draft Projection
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (sticks n skins @ May 8 2014, 11:14 PM) *
Projected high 2nd/low 3rd, drafted high 1st...

Draft Projection


Forgive me if I don't believe what appears to be a geocities site has access to all 32 team's draft boards.
He was second in the nation in sacks. NFL teams value pass rushers. He wasn't making it to the late second or early third. Maybe, just maybe they could have picked him in the early second, but that's no guarantee. And if a trade offer didn't come, it doesn't matter.
Is there one prospect that was selected after him that is a guaranteed star? A couple DB's with major question marks. A DL with injury concerns. And a QB we weren't going to draft.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 9 2014, 12:25 AM) *
Forgive me if I don't believe what appears to be a geocities site has access to all 32 team's draft boards.





For starters, I love the move to trade out of 22 and pick up a third.

To everyone crying foul, who would you have rather seen taken at 26? I'm not saying this is a "great" pick, or decrying the pick either, just playing devils advocate.

I was a bit surprised they passed on Marqise Lee, but he fell out of the first round altogether. That was strange.

Louis Nix?
Kony Ealy?

Dennard went at 24, so he was no longer an option.

Who would you have rather had at 26, if this pick is so bad because Smith didn't have a number < 32 next to his name on the draftnik reports?
JeeQ


Lowest Rated Player In The First Round

#GoldStandard
make_it_rain
way to answer the question.

who would you have taken at 26? Or are you just going to play paint by numbers?

I could see maybe someone like Roby, Nix or Lee..but aside from those guys there isn't much there at or after #26. At that point I'm guessing it becomes more about fit and athleticism, and they must have liked Smith's ability to play 3-4 OLB.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 8 2014, 11:43 PM) *
I was a bit surprised they passed on Marqise Lee, but he fell out of the first round altogether. That was strange.

Louis Nix?
Kony Ealy?

Dennard went at 24, so he was no longer an option.

Who would you have rather had at 26, if this pick is so bad because Smith didn't have a number < 32 next to his name on the draftnik reports?


Exactly. Lee didn't get picked at all, but wouldn't have been a reach according to this crew. Smith, who plays a position the FO clearly (and rightfully) values more, is a reach. Just because some analysts, who are being played by 32 teams, didn't identify as a target.
We now have a new player at a crucial position we desperately needed to improve. We have an extra third round pick in a really strong draft. And we have an opportunity to get two really solid players tomorrow night.
I'm all about Chip bringing in guys that meet his physical prerequisites. Smith does that. I vocally disagreed with his decision to cut Desean, because Desean is a proven entity and we turned a position of strength into a question mark. Beyond that, I think Chip knows what he is doing. Especially with regards to the mold with which fills specific positions.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 9 2014, 04:41 AM) *
The pick was fine. He had 14.5 sacks last year. He's a pass rushing OLB which is possibly our biggest need.

You guys are weirdos.

laugh.gif

Yup!

On a perfect day, they trade back another ten spots and still get him, but a good pick, that fills a real need.

BPA? Hard to believe. But solid.
sticks n skins
Highlights

Additional Highlights
Zero
The jury is out on Smith as far as I'm concerned. It it had been only Howie picking I'd have more doubts, but I have a lot of respect for Gamble and his personnel acumen. Smith seems to have been projected to be taken anywhere from the late first to the third. Not eye popping, predicted value but who else would they have taken at that spot.

Mayock: "Marcus Smith is a pretty exciting edge player. The important thing ultimately is 'can this kid play?' They have Connor Barwin on one side and Trent Cole, who will turn 32 years old, on the other. In that scheme he's a perfect fit. The pick attacks an area of need for the Eagles, and they got some extra picks in the process." We've been hearing them say this repeatedly in the off season: the player fitting the scheme. I think that's why they signed Jenkins and not Byrd and likely why they wanted to divorce themselves from Jackson.

The most important thing is that the didn't draft Manziel! What a circus that would have been. After Jackson, they didn't need more drama. And almost as important, they added a high third rounder and I don't think they're done moving around.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ May 8 2014, 11:14 PM) *
The Eagles traded down, got a high third rounder and didn't draft Manziel!!! Don't know about Smith, but they needed help there and they'll have WRs to grab later. Damn,
I'm glad they passed on Manziel!


A surprise for sure, but beggars can't be choosers. At this point, I'm happy a breaking news story didn't come out at 8pm that Jason Peters was part of DJax's running crew,
follow by us cutting Peters and trading up to get Robinson.
Aitkens
Loved the trade. Adding another top 100 pick in this draft is huge. However, further execution didn't happen with the selection of Smith. As a 2nd rounder, I'm ok with him being selected, but not at 26. They did reach on a pass rushing OLB, in a draft that wasn't loaded at that position. Would have rather taken one of the following at 26...

Safeties - Deone Buccanon, Jimmie Ward
Corner - Bradley Roby
Wide Receiver - Marqise Lee
Defensive Line - Louis Nix, Stephen Tuitt, Ra'Shede Hageman

If they wanted a pass rushing OLB, I'd have rather taken a guy like Jeremiah Attaochu who has a ton of upside, which they could have easily taken in the 2nd round.
TGryn
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ May 8 2014, 07:20 PM) *
Smith is 20 lbs lighter than Clowney and ran .2 slower. Yet Smith's athletic ability is the wow factor. Ok. Hopefully he is a football player!

Clowney also went #1 overall, while Smith went #26. I can't fault him for not being Clowney, who basically coasted through his final season yet still went first overall because he's reputedly a once-in-a-decade athletic freak. Of course, so were Kearse, Peppers, (Mario) Williams, and Andre Wadsworth in their time, you can make your own judgements whether they each lived up to their hype or not.

QUOTE (sticks n skins @ May 8 2014, 08:14 PM) *
Projected high 2nd/low 3rd, drafted high 1st...

Low 1st (at 26), but so it goes. The trick with the projections on Smith is that a lot of them were for him at DE, which in both a 3-4 and a 4-3 he's something of a 'tweener and undersized. As a 3-4 OLB, his prospects are better.
Zero
QUOTE (Aitkens @ May 9 2014, 09:56 AM) *
Loved the trade. Adding another top 100 pick in this draft is huge. However, further execution didn't happen with the selection of Smith. As a 2nd rounder, I'm ok with him being selected, but not at 26. They did reach on a pass rushing OLB, in a draft that wasn't loaded at that position. Would have rather taken one of the following at 26...

Safeties - Deone Buccanon, Jimmie Ward
Corner - Bradley Roby
Wide Receiver - Marqise Lee
Defensive Line - Louis Nix, Stephen Tuitt, Ra'Shede Hageman

If they wanted a pass rushing OLB, I'd have rather taken a guy like Jeremiah Attaochu who has a ton of upside, which they could have easily taken in the 2nd round.

How many of these guys will be there for the Eagles in the second?
Zero
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 9 2014, 09:58 AM) *
The trick with the projections on Smith is that a lot of them were for him at DE, which in both a 3-4 and a 4-3 he's something of a 'tweener and undersized. As a 3-4 OLB, his prospects are better.

Exactly what I was thinking. Doesn't make him good or bad, better or worse as a pick but most of the evaluations I saw had him listed as an undersized DE.
Aitkens
QUOTE (Zero @ May 9 2014, 10:12 AM) *
How many of these guys will be there for the Eagles in the second?



Both safeties and the corner I listed were all selected in the first round after the 26th pick. I'm going to assume that the rest of the defensive linemen I listed will be taken before the Eagles select tonight. Lee will likely be gone as well.



Zero
QUOTE (Aitkens @ May 9 2014, 10:18 AM) *
Both safeties and the corner I listed were all selected in the first round after the 26th pick. I'm going to assume that the rest of the defensive linemen I listed will be taken before the Eagles select tonight. Lee will likely be gone as well.

OK, but what if the Eagles actually had him rated as a high second round prospect and higher than the guys you list? What if they think they're OK at DB right now and felt a pass rusher was their most pressing need. Fit those two together and maybe they made a good decision.

I really have no clue, but I think they've earned the benefit of doubt. This isn't the Banner-led group. They've got some respected personnel guys including Donahue and Gamble. Did Howie blink and force a pick that wasn't BPA? They spent a lot of time and resources scouting this guy and talking to him. I'm guessing they are also connected to what other teams thought.
Aitkens
QUOTE (Zero @ May 9 2014, 10:27 AM) *
OK, but what if the Eagles actually had him rated as a high second round prospect and higher than the guys you list? What if they think they're OK at DB right now and felt a pass rusher was their most pressing need. Fit those two together and maybe they made a good decision.

I really have no clue, but I think they've earned the benefit of doubt. This isn't the Banner-led group. They've got some respected personnel guys including Donahue and Gamble. Did Howie blink and force a pick that wasn't BPA? They spent a lot of time and resources scouting this guy and talking to him. I'm guessing they are also connected to what other teams thought.


He's probably the most complete 3-4 OLB in the draft, I'll give him that. I just feel that they could have moved back further for him and added another value pick. I think we can all agree that they're not entirely set in the secondary. Adding talent there is a legit concern, especially given the arms race with offensive personnel that we're seeing in the NFL, especially the NFC East.

We're going to see how this pans out today. The 3 selections that they have today could really make their draft, and set them up for the future. It's widely known that this is a deep draft, and there is a ton of talent still available.
TGryn
Some other guys of interest at #54:
OG Su'a-Filo, UCLA - Successor to either Mathis or Herremans
WR Allen Robinson - Penn State (6-2/220), WR Cody Latimer - Indiana (6-2/215) - big WRs beat up little people
TE Troy Niklas - Notre Dame (6-6/270) - Chip loves his TEs
CB Lamarcus Joyner - Florida State (5-8/184) - fails the size test, but very high marks on everything else
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Aitkens @ May 9 2014, 09:32 AM) *
I just feel that they could have moved back further for him and added another value pick.

Not if trade partners weren't available. It sounds like they tried, but determined the value wasn't there or they would have risked losing the guy they liked had they moved back much farther.

QUOTE
I think we can all agree that they're not entirely set in the secondary. Adding talent there is a legit concern, especially given the arms race with offensive personnel that we're seeing in the NFL, especially the NFC East.


The best defense against a passing attack is pass rush. Not secondary. Pass rushing OLB is a more valuable position than safety.

Aitkens
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 9 2014, 10:52 AM) *
Not if trade partners weren't available. It sounds like they tried, but determined the value wasn't there or they would have risked losing the guy they liked had they moved back much farther.



The best defense against a passing attack is pass rush. Not secondary. Pass rushing OLB is a more valuable position than safety.


A pass rush covers many weaknesses, but at this point I think we're still short a starting caliber corner, and a starting caliber safety.
HobbEs
QUOTE
He's probably the most complete 3-4 OLB in the draft, I'll give him that.


If that's the case then you don't mess around and take him.
Eyrie
I like the pick. Good player at a position of real need.

Could we have got him ten picks later? Maybe, but was there a good enough trade available? And what if someone else had grabbed him in the interim?

JeeQ
I remember when we outsmarted everyone by choosing Brandon Graham before Earl Thomas and Jason Pierre-Paul. We really dodged a bullet there, we almost ended up with a multiple time pro-bowler instead of a multiple-time bench warmer.

#GoldStandard
make_it_rain
Jee, since youre such a draft expert and clearly knew the boards of the 31 other teams, you still haven't mentioned who else you would have taken at 26, given whats available.

If you think we shouldnt have been at 26, and would have preferred not to pick up an extra third rounder to move back, we can agree to disagree.

In the meantime, carry on using your cute hashtags.
HobbEs
QUOTE
I remember when we outsmarted everyone by choosing Brandon Graham before Earl Thomas and Jason Pierre-Paul. We really dodged a bullet there, we almost ended up with a multiple time pro-bowler instead of a multiple-time bench warmer


Did Graham have 14.5 sacks as a senior? I don't know about you but I think that's a pretty good number at any level. I'm okay with the pick. I'd wait to see what the kid can actually do before starting the Howie/Chip sucks routine.

#crymeariver #eaglesfansinhell #manuporgetout
HobbEs
Oh, and shit, while I'm at it...

#jerruh
Aitkens
QUOTE (HobbEs @ May 9 2014, 02:23 PM) *
Did Graham have 14.5 sacks as a senior? I don't know about you but I think that's a pretty good number at any level. I'm okay with the pick. I'd wait to see what the kid can actually do before starting the Howie/Chip sucks routine.

#crymeariver #eaglesfansinhell #manuporgetout



The biggest problems with Graham were as follows...


At the time the Eagles were running the 4-3. They took a guy that was a total tweener. He was too undersized to be a DE in the 4-3, with short arms. He had the ability to stand up and rush the passer in the 3-4, but not the hips to cover as an OLB in the 3-4. He was the perfect Andy Reid "Square Peg/Round Hole" draft pick. He was a horrible pick for the Eagles, and hasn't lived up to the hype, or his draft position by any stretch of the imagination.
HobbEs
Agree with the above assessment of Graham. The thing is Marcus Smith is not Brandon Graham, we did not move up to get him and it's a different regime making the picks.

I don't get the hate for this pick. Give him a chance...
make_it_rain
QUOTE (HobbEs @ May 9 2014, 02:46 PM) *
I don't get the hate for this pick. Give him a chance...


But its so much easier to join in on the WIP circlejerk and throw hashtags around!!!


#ringless
JeeQ
HobbEs
QUOTE
But its so much easier to join in on the WIP circlejerk and throw hashtags around!!!


#ringless


No one ever said being a Philly fan was for the faint of heart.

BTW, this hashtag thing is kind of fun...

#bipolarfans #remember1960 #inchipwetrust
TGryn
QUOTE (Aitkens @ May 9 2014, 10:36 AM) *
At the time the Eagles were running the 4-3. They took a guy that was a total tweener. He was too undersized to be a DE in the 4-3, with short arms. He had the ability to stand up and rush the passer in the 3-4, but not the hips to cover as an OLB in the 3-4. He was the perfect Andy Reid "Square Peg/Round Hole" draft pick. He was a horrible pick for the Eagles, and hasn't lived up to the hype, or his draft position by any stretch of the imagination.

Disagree. Everyone seems to forget that just when he was starting to get playing time as a rookie, he blew out his ACL in week 14 and had to have microfracture surgery. That cost him most of 2011. He rebounded in 2012 and started the last 6 games of that year, including two multi-sack games, and looked like one of the few players who stepped up his game and showed constant improvement that year. Then we went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and his position completely changed from DE to OLB, a position he was never drafted to play.

He's not a good fit in the Under 3-4 (nor is Cole or Curry, for that matter) and hopefully will get traded to someplace where he can play 4-3 DE. But for a guy who lost a year to an ACL then had to make a major position change, what did you expect?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 9 2014, 02:20 PM) *
Disagree. Everyone seems to forget that just when he was starting to get playing time as a rookie, he blew out his ACL in week 14 and had to have microfracture surgery. That cost him most of 2011. He rebounded in 2012 and started the last 6 games of that year, including two multi-sack games, and looked like one of the few players who stepped up his game and showed constant improvement that year. Then we went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and his position completely changed from DE to OLB, a position he was never drafted to play.

He's not a good fit in the Under 3-4 (nor is Cole or Curry, for that matter) and hopefully will get traded to someplace where he can play 4-3 DE. But for a guy who lost a year to an ACL then had to make a major position change, what did you expect?

He was physically maxed out from the day he was drafted. Andy loves small, Freeney-esque pass rushers. I like Chip's 'big guy' philosophy.

Additionally, Graham was a speed rusher that offered little else. Smith has much more versatility. I'm more and more pleased with the pick, the more I consider all the variables.
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