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nephillymike
When asked about Kelly's release of information as compared to Reid's, Sal Pal said Kelly is way way way worse than Reid.

Part of me is amused b/c what the media is pissed about is that Kelly doesn't do the nice off the record sit downs with the media like Reid would do.

That's why the media gave Reid such a break because he would talk to them.

It wouldn't do us as fans any good as we would never get any of the info b/c it was all off the record stuff.

Welcome to our world Sal. The world of ignorance!! Join the club.

That being said, I do think that the Eagles are risking bad PR with Kelly's lack of communication. It's early, and things may change, but I get the strong feeling that Kelly is going to morph in to Belicheat.

A real dick that is a good football coach. Difference being, we don't have the video camera he had!!

I hope I'm wrong b/c I loved Chip in year one. I didn't feel insulted listening to his press conferences.

He and Jeff need to know how tenuous that era of good feelings is, and not make the same mistake.
Zero
Remember the point you made to me about the waiting list. Kelly will be Kelly, whoever that is. I suspect he'll be more charming than Reid and maybe less informative if we're to believe Sal Pal.

HobbEs
QUOTE
It's early, and things may change, but I get the strong feeling that Kelly is going to morph in to Belicheat.


If Kelly gets us a Lombardi then I'm all for it!!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 8 2014, 10:50 PM) *
That being said, I do think that the Eagles are risking bad PR with Kelly's lack of communication. It's early, and things may
change, but I get the strong feeling that Kelly is going to morph in to Belicheat.


He can be the biggest dick on earth and never talk to the fans at all, provided he wins us 3 rings and takes us deep in the
playoffs every year. Hopefully the cart doesn't come before the horse, or it could get ugly.
Jax
I'm sorry, I just have never believed in a reporter's entitlement to access or to information. I don't give a damn if the players or the coach speak to them. I want to see what happens on the field. I don't care about the bullshit of how much information a coach coughs up about his team and his plans.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Jax @ Apr 10 2014, 08:52 PM) *
I'm sorry, I just have never believed in a reporter's entitlement to access or to information. I don't give a damn if the players or the coach speak to them. I want to see what happens on the field. I don't care about the bullshit of how much information a coach coughs up about his team and his plans.

I don't believe in reporters' entitlements but I believe in fans' entitlement.

Just throw us a bone. I don't care if the reporters get no more than we get. Frankly, I prefer the coach doesn't butter them up with off the record stuff for future favors like Andy did with them and the national media. That would infuriate me when he would pull out the red carpet for the national media and shit on the local guys and fans all those years.

It's good when your fan base feels informed and appreciated.

Again, not looking for much. Tell us something.

Sure winning is the important thing. But winning plus the fans being up to speed is better than winning and the fans knowing nothing.

Just my opinion, but I'm getting bad feelings about this so far.
Jax
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 10 2014, 10:01 PM) *
I don't believe in reporters' entitlements but I believe in fans' entitlement.

I guess that is what I meant. I don't believe in fans entitlement either. I'm more bottom line oriented I suppose.
Zero
I'm with you on this, Jax. Sure, I like to hear what's going down but what I hear everyone hears and that's not necessarily good for the team. If there were a way to filter rough info only to the fans that would be cool, but not possible.

I think the main thing fans want is honest assessments on what happened in a game. Not throwing a player under the bus, but something other than "we'll have to look at the film" or "I'm not getting into all that." Show us respect as fans, the people they ultimately are playing the games for. I think Kelly does that, or at least did it last year.
TGryn
As I recall, one of the biggest complaints about Reid was how uninformative he was to the press, so this smells like a BS comment by SalPal. No matter who the coach is, the press is going to be unhappy with him. If you're winning, the press doesn't matter, and if you're losing, the press can't help you (and usually are the ones leading the pitchfork-and-torches mob to get you fired).

The problem with being insider informative to the fans is that the teams you'll be playing also read the same media, so anything actually insightful for the fans would also be useful to them.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 11 2014, 06:12 AM) *
I think the main thing fans want is honest assessments on what happened in a game. Not throwing a player under the bus,
but something other than "we'll have to look at the film" or "I'm not getting into all that." Show us respect as fans, the people
they ultimately are playing the games for. I think Kelly does that, or at least did it last year.


In a city like Philly we connect emotionally with our teams, and want to feel like we're part of them. In a nutshell I think that's
what most of us expect, that the face(s) of each team treat us with respect. Cataldi spent 5 months performing verbal fellatio
on Chip, because he would have interviews every morning after a game and would be engaging, funny, and honest. To anyone
who listened, those were seriously good interviews. Now people like Cataldi are turning on him fast for disappearing for 2
months.

Bottom line is, it's our team and Chip is occupying the title of head coach. Long after he's gone and getting paid big bucks
elsewhere, we'll still be here.
HOUSEoPAIN
repeat
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 10:04 AM) *
Bottom line is, it's our team and Chip is occupying the title of head coach. Long after he's gone and getting paid big bucks
elsewhere, we'll still be here.

Sorry to burst your bubble, it's Jeff Lurie's team for as long as it remains profitable. It's the Philadelphia Eagles not the Green Bay Packers. Just because the fans want something doesn't mean that they are entitled to it. The compensation for "fandom" is the week to week performance on the field, and it's non-negotiable.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 11 2014, 10:30 AM) *
Sorry to burst your bubble, it's Jeff Lurie's team for as long as it remains profitable. It's the Philadelphia Eagles not the Green
Bay Packers. Just because the fans want something doesn't mean that they are entitled to it. The compensation for "fandom"
is the week to week performance on the field, and it's non-negotiable.


I figured I would get some moronic response about actual 'ownership,' from someone who clearly has no clue what it means to
be a sports fan in Philly - and I actually gave you pretty good odds of being the one to do so. How did you become an Eagles
fan, did you like the color of the jerseys or something?

Jeff Lurie has ownership of the team until he decides to sell it, and the next occupier comes in for however many years. We are
the ones who make it profitable, by attending games, buying merchandise, and talking about every move they make throughout
the year in tuning in and purchasing media. We don't 'own' the Phillies either, but if you look at their attendance last night,
I promise you their FO is more than a bit concerned (fandom is negotiable). The Eagles have just started creating buzz after
last year, and it would behoove them to show their fan base respect.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 10:56 AM) *
I figured I would get some moronic response about actual 'ownership,' from someone who clearly has no clue what it means to
be a sports fan in Philly - and I actually gave you pretty good odds of being the one to do so. How did you become an Eagles
fan, did you like the color of the jerseys or something?
You sound like a petulant child. Do you want to take your ball and go home now? You're a fan, a potential client for the local market and less than a drop in the bucket for the big NFL machine.

QUOTE
Jeff Lurie has ownership of the team until he decides to sell it, and the next occupier comes in for however many years. We are
the ones who make it profitable, by attending games, buying merchandise, and talking about every move they make throughout
the year in tuning in and purchasing media.

What's your point? The NFL is a product and we are their consumers. As I stated before, this is Lurie's team until it is no longer profitable. Even then he could seek permission to relocate the franchise. You don't like the ownership's attitude, stop putting money in his pocket and see how far that gets you. Maybe you can start your own coalition with other misguided individuals who are stuck in the past, holding onto ideals that are long gone.

QUOTE
We don't 'own' the Phillies either, but if you look at their attendance last night,I promise you their FO is more than a bit concerned (fandom is negotiable). The Eagles have just started creating buzz after last year, and it would behoove them to show their fan base respect.
Your baseball conundrum is not my issue. If it were up to me, the sport would have folded after Toronto won their back to back championships 2 decades ago.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 11 2014, 11:52 AM) *
You sound like a petulant child. Do you want to take your ball and go home now? You're a fan, a potential client for the local
market and less than a drop in the bucket for the big NFL machine.


And you sound like Joe Banner. Have you ever even been to Philly? Other than to come watch a Blue Jays game?
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 11:55 AM) *
And you sound like Joe Banner. Have you ever even been to Philly? Other than to come watch a Blue Jays game?

Yes.
Eyrie
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 11 2014, 03:01 AM) *
I don't believe in reporters' entitlements but I believe in fans' entitlement.

Just throw us a bone. I don't care if the reporters get no more than we get. Frankly, I prefer the coach doesn't butter them up with off the record stuff for future favors like Andy did with them and the national media. That would infuriate me when he would pull out the red carpet for the national media and shit on the local guys and fans all those years.

It's good when your fan base feels informed and appreciated.

Again, not looking for much. Tell us something.

Sure winning is the important thing. But winning plus the fans being up to speed is better than winning and the fans knowing nothing.

Just my opinion, but I'm getting bad feelings about this so far.

Spadaro is there to keep us informed. Whether anyone believes him is a different matter, but all I expect from the team is to be told what suits them and not what I want to know.

It's like any business. You want to be in control of what your customers hear about you, and wouldn't want your employees leaking information about your standard of care to the media.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 03:56 PM) *
I figured I would get some moronic response about actual 'ownership,' from someone who clearly has no clue what it means to
be a sports fan in Philly - and I actually gave you pretty good odds of being the one to do so. How did you become an Eagles
fan, did you like the color of the jerseys or something?

Jeff Lurie has ownership of the team until he decides to sell it, and the next occupier comes in for however many years. We are
the ones who make it profitable, by attending games, buying merchandise, and talking about every move they make throughout
the year in tuning in and purchasing media. We don't 'own' the Phillies either, but if you look at their attendance last night,
I promise you their FO is more than a bit concerned (fandom is negotiable). The Eagles have just started creating buzz after
last year, and it would behoove them to show their fan base respect.

And if the fans don't turn out in profitable enough numbers, then the franchise will be moved by its actual owner to a more lucrative market. You would be a fan of the Phoenix Eagles if that happens, although I wouldn't and I doubt Phits would.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 11 2014, 01:54 PM) *
And if the fans don't turn out in profitable enough numbers, then the franchise will be moved by its actual owner to a more
lucrative market. You would be a fan of the Phoenix Eagles if that happens, although I wouldn't and I doubt Phits would.


Maybe you should read up on Leonard Tose trying to move the team to Phoenix, and see how that turned out. It'll give you a
good indication of how much 'customers' can influence a business, and that it's our team, though we don't have 'ownership.'


Reality Fan
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 01:22 PM) *
Maybe you should read up on Leonard Tose trying to move the team to Phoenix, and see how that turned out. It'll give you a
good indication of how much 'customers' can influence a business, and that it's our team, though we don't have 'ownership.'


Uh....I hate to burst your bubble here champ but the fans had nothing to do with Tose not moving the team to Phoenix......you may not recall what actually happened but the fans had nothing to do with it no matter how much they might like to think.....2 things kept them here.

First the NFL owners brought legal action and then Wilson Goode and the city restructured the eagles lease and added luxury boxes for additional revenue. Tose's plans...though he lied about it at the time was to move the team...the NFL said no and the city ponied up some financial help...all too little too late for the drunken gambler and his bitch of a daughter......
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 11 2014, 06:48 PM) *
Uh....I hate to burst your bubble here champ but the fans had nothing to do with Tose not moving the team to Phoenix......you may not recall what actually happened but the fans had nothing to do with it no matter how much they might like to think.....2 things kept them here.

First the NFL owners brought legal action and then Wilson Goode and the city restructured the eagles lease and added luxury boxes for additional revenue. Tose's plans...though he lied about it at the time was to move the team...the NFL said no and the city ponied up some financial help...all too little too late for the drunken gambler and his bitch of a daughter......


Did I imply that the degenerate gambler decided to listen to the fans after they found out? Obviously not, degenerate gamblers rarely listen to their own family. Politicians
got involved, including as you said Wilson Goode. Why did they do that? Because of the uproar from the fans. Keeping the Eagles in Philly when you depend on the votes
of 2 million angry citizens is quite a motivator. In a city like Jacksonville, it wouldn't have happened.

*edit - not to mention, the NFL realized they were about to alienate millions of loyal customers if they didn't do everything in their power to keep us here.....
TGryn
The move would have happened if Braman hadn't bought the team. Its been flushed down the memory hole, but around 1984 Braman was beloved in the city as the former Eagles water boy for the '60 championship team who returned and saved the team from moving...just like Lurie was feasted in '94 as the guy who was going to save us from Braman's miserly ways that let Reggie skip town. The honeymoon never lasts.

What's odd is that Tose remains beloved by most fans who remember those years, even though he came the closest to outright losing the team. I think its largely because Vermeil remains one of the most popular public figures in Philly, and Tose is associated with that time.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 07:17 PM) *
Did I imply that the degenerate gambler decided to listen to the fans after they found out? Obviously not, degenerate gamblers rarely listen to their own family. Politicians
got involved, including as you said Wilson Goode. Why did they do that? Because of the uproar from the fans. Keeping the Eagles in Philly when you depend on the votes
of 2 million angry citizens is quite a motivator. In a city like Jacksonville, it wouldn't have happened.

*edit - not to mention, the NFL realized they were about to alienate millions of loyal customers if they didn't do everything in their power to keep us here.....


The facts of the matter were that the fans had nothing to do with it. Well...I take that back...the fan uproar had nothing to do with it. The owners were pissed that Tose did not consult them first....that and philadelphia was a bigger market than Phoenix. The city got involved because they would lose revenue in the form of concessions, parking and taxes. Again...it had little to do with the fans uproar. had Tose gone to the owners first and the Monaghan increased his offer the Eagles would have been gone regardless of what the fans said.

nephillymike
FWIW,

Speaking of upset fans, did anyone see the Phils game tonight?

I turned it on and assumed it was in Florida.

They announced 22K fans. They had 12K tops.

The first ten rows were less than half full. It was like those extra inning bad weather games when they let everyone down low.

That team screwed the pooch.

The fans have given up.

Hard to believe really.

From endless sell outs to 12 K show ups in about a year's time.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 11 2014, 07:22 PM) *
Maybe you should read up on Leonard Tose trying to move the team to Phoenix, and see how that turned out. It'll give you a
good indication of how much 'customers' can influence a business, and that it's our team, though we don't have 'ownership.'

Reality Fan and TGryn have covered the specifics of why the Eagles remained in Philadelphia.

Now, can you explain why the Browns moved to Baltimore despite the anger of fans in Cleveland? Or how the Oilers moved to Tennessee? Or the Raiders to Oakland? Or the Rams to St Louis?

The fact of the matter is that the legal owner of the team has the ability to relocate regardless of the fans feelings, just like any other business can move if it feels that it makes commercial sense to do so.
Jax
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 11 2014, 06:12 AM) *
I'm with you on this, Jax. Sure, I like to hear what's going down but what I hear everyone hears and that's not necessarily good for the team. If there were a way to filter rough info only to the fans that would be cool, but not possible.

I think the main thing fans want is honest assessments on what happened in a game. Not throwing a player under the bus, but something other than "we'll have to look at the film" or "I'm not getting into all that." Show us respect as fans, the people they ultimately are playing the games for. I think Kelly does that, or at least did it last year.

Agree, I found him to be come across as more caring than Andy, however I was perfectly fine with Andy's style. I just don't get wrapped up in how many bones they throw the fans. Their job is to win and I favor letting them do their job however they see fit so that if they do not win then there is no second guessing. Reminds me, I think I offered a bet a year ago that Chip wouldn't equal AR's coaching resume with the Eagles. I like Chip but I'd still take that bet.
Jax
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 11 2014, 10:30 AM) *
Sorry to burst your bubble, it's Jeff Lurie's team for as long as it remains profitable. It's the Philadelphia Eagles not the Green Bay Packers. Just because the fans want something doesn't mean that they are entitled to it. The compensation for "fandom" is the week to week performance on the field, and it's non-negotiable.

I mostly agree here. I expect the Eagles best effort to win. That is all.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Reality Fan and TGryn have covered the specifics of why the Eagles remained in Philadelphia.


They've covered some of the specifics of the legal battles and negotiations that occurred to keep the Eagles here. I maintain that when politicians get involved in such a
manner, it's because their constituents are telling them to. Obviously the city didn't want to lose that revenue, but any smart councilman (and the mayor) knew damn well
they better keep the team here, or die trying. I don't disagree with what they're saying happened, I just think they're discounting what happens when a politician's phone
rings off the hook with angry voters on the other side. Which brings me to.....

QUOTE
Now, can you explain why the Browns moved to Baltimore despite the anger of fans in Cleveland?


I'd love to. First of all, the Browns DIDN'T move to Baltimore. The only thing that moved to Baltimore was the players and personnel of a franchise that was then
known as the Cleveland Browns. A new franchise was created in Baltimore, and it was agreed that the Browns' name, history, awards, and team colors would remain in
Cleveland, deactivated for 3 years. In 1999, the franchise would be reactivated, which it was. Look up the Cleveland Browns history - it goes all the way back to the 40s,
while the Ravens only goes back to 1996. Funny, eh?

Not only was Modell a sniveling scumbag, but he actually violated his lease, leading to many lawsuits from fans and ticket holders, as well as.....you guessed it, politicians
who were being deluged with outrage from fans. Cleveland sued him, the whole thing was a mess, and eventually a deal was worked out where he could move his players
to Baltimore, but the 'Browns' would remain in Cleveland. So basically, the Browns never left, and the only downside was the fans didn't have to watch their team finish in
last place for 3 years.

QUOTE
Or how the Oilers moved to Tennessee? Or the Raiders to Oakland? Or the Rams to St Louis?


I addressed Cleveland because they compare to Philly sports fans. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, while I don't doubt you're a loyal Eagles fan, the fact is someone
from Canada or Scotland really couldn't understand the culture of being a sports fan in Philly. None of these cities and their fan bases come remotely close, in fact I'd wager
90% of people in LA aren't aware they still have a hockey team.

QUOTE
The fact of the matter is that the legal owner of the team has the ability to relocate regardless of the fans feelings


I don't pretend to know the intricacies of legal agreements between leagues, franchisees, and cities, but it's pretty clear that in many cases you can't just pick up and move.
This whole thread was based on fans being unhappy about lack of communication from the Eagles, and it's evolved to this. The whole point is customers can influence a
business, especially when they feel said business isn't respecting them, as Mike pointed out in the next post I'll respond to, about our esteemed Phillies.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 11 2014, 11:16 PM) *
FWIW,

Speaking of upset fans, did anyone see the Phils game tonight?

I turned it on and assumed it was in Florida.

They announced 22K fans. They had 12K tops.

The first ten rows were less than half full. It was like those extra inning bad weather games when they let everyone down low.

That team screwed the pooch.

The fans have given up.

Hard to believe really.

From endless sell outs to 12 K show ups in about a year's time.


25K the night before, the lowest since 2007. 22k last night (paid for, not showed it), a new low. I never minded going to the Vet with 12k people there to watch a shitty
team, because you could always pay $5 for a 700 level ticket and go down and sit 20 rows back on the first base side, and $20 would get you a couple beers and a couple
hot dogs. The exact same experience now would cost you about $200. Sorry Ruben, you should've kept Abreu. rolleyes.gif
Zero
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 12 2014, 11:12 AM) *
I'd wager 90% of people in LA aren't aware they still have a hockey team.

I bet 90% of the people in LA don't know they don't have the Rams any more. laugh.gif
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 12 2014, 12:12 PM) *
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, while I don't doubt you're a loyal Eagles fan, the fact is someone
from Canada or Scotland really couldn't understand the culture of being a sports fan in Philly. None of these cities and their fan bases come remotely close, in fact I'd wager 90% of people in LA aren't aware they still have a hockey team.

"The sports culture of being a sports fan in Philly." What does that mean? Have you ever heard of the Toronto Maple Leafs? The franchise is rich in culture and has as passionate a fan base as an city in North America. Suggesting otherwise is just plain ignorant.

As for your wager, I would love to take that bet.


TGryn
Semantically the Browns may have remained in Cleveland in name, but for all practical purposes the team did move. The Browns when they were restarted were given the same draft advantages as any new expansion franchise (it happened to be the same year when the Eagles would have had the #1 overall selection on record, but instead the Browns had it as an expansion and picked Tim Couch, while we had to settle for McNabb at #2).

Studies of new stadiums have indicated that they are poor engines of economic development. Public funding for stadium construction is subsidizing of the NFL, which is a great deal for the owners and a terrible drain on already-strained city finances. However, politicians who vote for new stadiums are never brought to task for spending tax dollars in this way, so it continues.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Semantically the Browns may have remained in Cleveland in name, but for all practical purposes the team did move. The Browns when they were restarted were given the
same draft advantages as any new expansion franchise (it happened to be the same year when the Eagles would have had the #1 overall selection on record, but instead the
Browns had it as an expansion and picked Tim Couch, while we had to settle for McNabb at #2).


Yeah I get all that. But 'semantically' retaining the Browns franchise, even though they didn't play football for 3 years, must have been extremely important to their fans.
Once 1999 came around, the Browns were back with all of their history, colors, etc. (minus 3 years of vacation), and their fans picked up right where they left off - watching
a shitty team finish last every year. Modell's business entity moved - the Cleveland Browns stayed. Supposedly Modell never came back to Cleveland, for fear of his life - I
would expect nothing less from Philly fans.

QUOTE
However, politicians who vote for new stadiums are never brought to task for spending tax dollars in this way, so it continues.


Remove the words 'new stadiums' and insert just about every word in the English language, and you'd still be correct.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 12 2014, 12:19 PM) *
25K the night before, the lowest since 2007. 22k last night (paid for, not showed it), a new low. I never minded going to the Vet with 12k people there to watch a shitty
team, because you could always pay $5 for a 700 level ticket and go down and sit 20 rows back on the first base side, and $20 would get you a couple beers and a couple
hot dogs. The exact same experience now would cost you about $200. Sorry Ruben, you should've kept Abreu. rolleyes.gif

Yes, that sure is sad. However our team is sad too so there ya go.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 12 2014, 02:46 PM) *
Have you ever heard of the Toronto Maple Leafs? The franchise is rich in culture and has as passionate a fan base as an city in North America. .


I have no doubt the Maple Leafs have a passionate fan base - and the fact that you would compare that to being a Philly 4-for-4 further proves my point that you have no
idea what you're talking about.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 12 2014, 05:12 PM) *
They've covered some of the specifics of the legal battles and negotiations that occurred to keep the Eagles here. I maintain that when politicians get involved in such a
manner, it's because their constituents are telling them to. Obviously the city didn't want to lose that revenue, but any smart councilman (and the mayor) knew damn well
they better keep the team here, or die trying. I don't disagree with what they're saying happened, I just think they're discounting what happens when a politician's phone
rings off the hook with angry voters on the other side. Which brings me to.....

So you're conceding that the team could have been moved and neither the fans not the politicians could have prevented it. Fortunately for us, enough sweeteners were offered to keep the Eagles where they belong.

QUOTE
I'd love to. First of all, the Browns DIDN'T move to Baltimore. The only thing that moved to Baltimore was the players and personnel of a franchise that was then
known as the Cleveland Browns. A new franchise was created in Baltimore, and it was agreed that the Browns' name, history, awards, and team colors would remain in
Cleveland, deactivated for 3 years. In 1999, the franchise would be reactivated, which it was. Look up the Cleveland Browns history - it goes all the way back to the 40s,
while the Ravens only goes back to 1996. Funny, eh?

Not only was Modell a sniveling scumbag, but he actually violated his lease, leading to many lawsuits from fans and ticket holders, as well as.....you guessed it, politicians
who were being deluged with outrage from fans. Cleveland sued him, the whole thing was a mess, and eventually a deal was worked out where he could move his players
to Baltimore, but the 'Browns' would remain in Cleveland. So basically, the Browns never left, and the only downside was the fans didn't have to watch their team finish in
last place for 3 years.


You're wrong. The franchise DID move to Baltimore, but a deal was struck whereby the history was left to be taken over by a new team. If that new team had not been created then the Browns would no longer exist. Consider that the history of the Houston Oilers ended when that franchise moved to Tennessee and the Titans started their own history.

QUOTE
I addressed Cleveland because they compare to Philly sports fans. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, while I don't doubt you're a loyal Eagles fan, the fact is someone
from Canada or Scotland really couldn't understand the culture of being a sports fan in Philly. None of these cities and their fan bases come remotely close, in fact I'd wager
90% of people in LA aren't aware they still have a hockey team.

Do you have any idea how ludicrous and insular that comment is? I grew up with the passion of the Edinburgh derby in "soccer" where my Hibs play our city rivals Hearts four times a season in the league. If anything, it's you who doesn't understand the true passion of a committed supporter because it's much easier to be a fan of the only team in town than it is when friends, colleagues and neighbours support your arch rivals and have bragging rights for the next few weeks until you play again.

I've also visited the Glasgow derby, and I can assure you that the level of bigoted hatred between the two sets of fans provides an edge that you will never understand.

I'll go further - having attended football, rugby and NFL at the Linc I can honestly say that the true fans are every bit as passionate regardless of the sport.

You then dismiss Phits' comments about the Maple Leafs based on what? I'm willing to take at face value his local knowledge of how passionate the fans are there over some idea that Philadelphia fans are special because they have four teams. Are all four teams equally strongly supported, or does interest vary according to how the teams are playing? From the Phillies attendances reported in this thread, it's the latter.

QUOTE
I don't pretend to know the intricacies of legal agreements between leagues, franchisees, and cities, but it's pretty clear that in many cases you can't just pick up and move.
This whole thread was based on fans being unhappy about lack of communication from the Eagles, and it's evolved to this. The whole point is customers can influence a
business, especially when they feel said business isn't respecting them, as Mike pointed out in the next post I'll respond to, about our esteemed Phillies.

It's the leagues that ultimately control where the teams can play and under what conditions, as the example of the Browns showed. The NFL would have struggled in court to prevent the franchise moving to Baltimore, but it could stop them being referred to as the Browns (as happened with the Oilers). It the cases of the Rams and Raiders, it chose not to do so.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
I've also visited the Glasgow derby, and I can assure you that the level of bigoted hatred between the two sets of fans provides an edge that you will never understand.


Yes, I'll never understand it, nor do I care to. Obviously you missed the point of my comment, while further proving my point. The phrase '4 for 4' denotes Philly sports fans
who are supporters of all 4 local teams, as opposed to people local or otherwise who root for another city's team in a particular sport, or what have you. As you say, those
with local knowledge will better understand why many Eagles fans are pissed off at the organization right now - even those locals who think we should shut up and see how it plays out.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 12 2014, 11:06 PM) *
I have no doubt the Maple Leafs have a passionate fan base - and the fact that you would compare that to being a Philly 4-for-4 further proves my point that you have no
idea what you're talking about.

Your ignorance is humorous. Is it intentional or are you really this ignorant?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 13 2014, 11:49 AM) *
Your ignorance is humorous. Is it intentional or are you really this ignorant?


I can't wait until the Raptors game this afternoon, how about you?
JaxEagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 13 2014, 11:32 AM) *
Yes, I'll never understand it, nor do I care to. Obviously you missed the point of my comment, while further proving my point. The phrase '4 for 4' denotes Philly sports fans
who are supporters of all 4 local teams, as opposed to people local or otherwise who root for another city's team in a particular sport, or what have you. As you say, those
with local knowledge will better understand why many Eagles fans are pissed off at the organization right now - even those locals who think we should shut up and see how it plays out.

I sure enjoyed my boy Jimmy winning the game and trash talking back to the fan last night. Nice start by J-Roll. I know Mikey doesn't like the fact that he sometimes doesn't run out a grounder or fly-ball... but... Jimmy Rollins is an all-time Philly sports hero without question
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Apr 13 2014, 12:11 PM) *
I sure enjoyed my boy Jimmy winning the game and trash talking back to the fan last night. Nice start by J-Roll. I know Mikey doesn't like the fact that he sometimes doesn't run out a grounder or fly-ball... but... Jimmy Rollins is an all-time Philly sports hero without question


Yeah a couple guys from this era will have their numbers retired no doubt, I'd guess Rollins and Utley. Other guys who will make the wall of fame are Howard, Ruiz, and
Hamels.
nephillymike
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Apr 13 2014, 11:11 AM) *
I sure enjoyed my boy Jimmy winning the game and trash talking back to the fan last night. Nice start by J-Roll. I know Mikey doesn't like the fact that he sometimes doesn't run out a grounder or fly-ball... but... Jimmy Rollins is an all-time Philly sports hero without question



Nice game winning HR for sure.

If I read his lips correctly I think he pointed to the guy and said shut the f up.

Good for him. He didn't show he pitcher up just ran around the bases quickly like he should have.

I wonder what the guy was saying to him that got him riled up?

I will say, he is the best Phillie SS of all-time and will come close to getting in the HOF.

But yes, his lack of hustle still bothers me. But if he's turned a new leaf this year, great. If not for the lack of hustle, he'd be one of my favorites.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 13 2014, 12:39 PM) *
I wonder what the guy was saying to him that got him riled up?


And a lot of people had to hear it including other players, as he said it while Rollins was at the plate. Interesting.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 13 2014, 10:32 AM) *
Yes, I'll never understand it, nor do I care to. Obviously you missed the point of my comment, while further proving my point. The phrase '4 for 4' denotes Philly sports fans
who are supporters of all 4 local teams, as opposed to people local or otherwise who root for another city's team in a particular sport, or what have you. As you say, those
with local knowledge will better understand why many Eagles fans are pissed off at the organization right now - even those locals who think we should shut up and see how it plays out.



Not sure how this discussion went from talking about the Eagles leaving to being a Philly 4 for 4 fan. I have been all my life but to even suggest that fans in Philly come close to the insanity of soccer fans in Europe is crazy. First, I hate soccer...it is cross country with a ball.....I went to a Division 1 school with a top 20 team my senior year and one was my roommate and I drank with the team all the time and told them the same thing....second, premier league soccer fans are insane but I expect that from anyone goofy enough to like such a screwy sport.....sorry Eyrie......lol

Now back to the story.........Cleveland kept their name because it was the last ditch settlement to end legal battles(money)and allow Modell out (because he worked with the other owners unlike Tose). You make it sound as if this was the first proposal to Cleveland. The original position was to just leave. In the end, as usual, it is money and only money that influences these decisions.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 13 2014, 12:27 PM) *
Yeah a couple guys from this era will have their numbers retired no doubt, I'd guess Rollins and Utley. Other guys who will make the wall of fame are Howard, Ruiz, and
Hamels.

Hamels still has a shot at having a retired number if he has a second half of his career here like his first half. For sure Rollins and Utley will be retired. Howard probably could have if not for that Achilles injury that got him off track.

Chooch is a favorite, great catcher and clutch hitter but i don't know if his stats will warrant it. We will see. nonetheless, incredible to have so many all-timers on one team.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 13 2014, 12:39 PM) *
Nice game winning HR for sure.

If I read his lips correctly I think he pointed to the guy and said shut the f up.

Good for him. He didn't show he pitcher up just ran around the bases quickly like he should have.

I wonder what the guy was saying to him that got him riled up?

I will say, he is the best Phillie SS of all-time and will come close to getting in the HOF.

But yes, his lack of hustle still bothers me. But if he's turned a new leaf this year, great. If not for the lack of hustle, he'd be one of my favorites.

according to the story on phillies.com that is exactly what Jimmy said to him. I also wonder what the fan said. hopefully some good phillies fans whooped that guy's ass.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Not sure how this discussion went from talking about the Eagles leaving to being a Philly 4 for 4 fan.


Me neither.

QUOTE
I have been all my life but to even suggest that fans in Philly come close to the insanity of soccer fans in Europe is crazy


I totally agree. Point was local fans have local knowledge and are part of a culture that people from far away couldn't possibly understand. Same applies to us if we actively
rooted for a soccer team in Glasgow, or a hockey team in Toronto. On a side note, I know enough about soccer to know I would never in a million years wear an opposing
team's soccer jersey to a game in Europe.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 13 2014, 07:04 PM) *
I totally agree. Point was local fans have local knowledge and are part of a culture that people from far away couldn't possibly understand. Same applies to us if we actively
rooted for a soccer team in Glasgow, or a hockey team in Toronto. On a side note, I know enough about soccer to know I would never in a million years wear an opposing
team's soccer jersey to a game in Europe.

That wasn't how it came across. You made it sound like there is something special about being a sports fan in Philadelphia compared to anywhere else. To be honest, the only reason not to follow all four teams is that you don't like one of the sports.

And your comment about needing to be local to understand the fan culture undermines your own dig at the Maple Leafs earlier in this thread.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
That wasn't how it came across. You made it sound like there is something special about being a sports fan in Philadelphia compared to anywhere else. To be honest,
the only reason not to follow all four teams is that you don't like one of the sports.


Ok well it's clear you get my point now, so that's good. To 4-for-4 fans here in Philly, we do feel there is something special about it. That certainly doesn't discount the fact
that other cities in the US and around the world feel the same way. That's why I talked about Cleveland, and other cities in the US such as Boston and Chicago would agree.

There are many people local and elsewhere who religiously follow the Eagles or Phillies, while rooting for the Devils or Giants. We often refer to them as 'douchebags.' One
of my best friends is a die-hard Eagles fan, but roots for the Yankees, Rangers, and Knicks. Go figure.

QUOTE
And your comment about needing to be local to understand the fan culture undermines your own dig at the Maple Leafs earlier in this thread.


I didn't 'dig' at the Maple Leafs. The Flyers fan base is arguably the best fan base in America, while we know that Canadian NHL teams have much more established fan
bases and traditions. Hockey is Canada's national sport, which obviously factors into that. Also, many Canadian cities have hockey franchises while not having any other
teams in America's 'major' sports. Ironically, Toronto is the only city to have an NBA and MLB team in that country.

Pila
I heard Scots are some of the more sawker passionate fans. There are the Spaniards too, both Barça and RM fans. The Turks have Fenerbaçe and Gala and even Besickas. But there is one group of fans that stand clear of them all. This was last night in Lisbon's center when we won our 33rd national title-


Benfica - Campeão - Marques de Pombal - 2014

http://youtu.be/ybZDpKh9zMs


What you are seeing are flares blazing, not fires. Other than some post celebration clean up, there was exactly zero damage done to public and private property. An estimated 500K fans were there. Lisbon's population is a hair over 1M.

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