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nephillymike
Please opine.
Zero
You should join the media with those loaded questions, especially #3. laugh.gif

Improving the team isn't necessarily a product of spending money, or a given amount of money.

From what we've learned, or think we've learned getting rid of DJax is in the best interest of the team. It's not so much about what he has done as it is what he could do to the chemistry of the team. This is a young team about to get younger and if DJax's attitude, associations and habits could be detrimental to the progress of the team it's best to avoid the risk. Especially considering that we've talked about his fragility and potential to be out for the count if he gets another concussion.

It sucks that they didn't get any return on him but I'm not convinced that was their fault.
JeeQ
sticks n skins
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 1 2014, 06:07 PM) *
You should join the media with those loaded questions, especially #3. laugh.gif

Improving the team isn't necessarily a product of spending money, or a given amount of money.

From what we've learned, or think we've learned getting rid of DJax is in the best interest of the team. It's not so much about what he has done as it is what he could do to the chemistry of the team. This is a young team about to get younger and if DJax's attitude, associations and habits could be detrimental to the progress of the team it's best to avoid the risk. Especially considering that we've talked about his fragility and potential to be out for the count if he gets another concussion.

It sucks that they didn't get any return on him but I'm not convinced that was their fault.



Well put.
samaroo
Z, I think you pretty much nailed it.

I voted no, yes, no. I don't think we've done enough to improve the team YET. The draft hasn't happened yet, and I think we make some moves there. It could be I'm disappointed when all is said and done, we'll just have to see. But I'm surprisingly not depressed about DJ being gone.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 1 2014, 08:53 PM) *
Please opine.


No, no, no.

1. If the LA cops were going to go 'APRIL FOOL'S HE'S WANTED FOR MURDER!' then that day was yesterday. He's got a shorter criminal record than most of us on this board.

2. Anyone who's been reading the threads know I disagree with cutting him, at least in this manner.

3. I would've answered 'no' to this a few weeks ago - now we've gotten significantly worse. Honestly, out of all the fan bases in the freaking country, are we seriously
poo-pooing transferring 82 catches, 1300 yards, and 9 td's to a division rival?! That's what shocks me the most here. In my lifetime we've had about 4 or 5 wide receivers
of note, DJax is already one of the top 3 in franchise history. Some people are acting like these guys come along every year. wacko.gif

make_it_rain
No, No, and No.

Anyone who can try to possibly spin what's happened in the last week as a positive is beyond me. There is simply no denying the fact that the team is demonstrably worse without Jackson.

Now we take a pick away from addressing the defense in the draft to hope to find a cheaper, younger guy who can replace Jackson. We can only hope to get a fortunate roll of the dice.

One theory I heard on WIP, which I'm not sure I buy, is that maybe Chip thinks the team simply is not a SB contender this year, but more likely next year. Thus he wants to get rid of someone who jeopardizes his "system" or locker room chemistry with all the young players, and wants to bring in someone cheaper, younger, and bigger, while saving some $ in the process. I don't buy that though.

On the plus side, at least this board is filled with lively discussion again, so there's that. blink.gif
D Rock
No, Yes, No.

Despite the delusions of grandeur evidenced by many of our fellow fans, the iggles leadership knows more about DJax and their team than we do. They are NOT stupid people. Stupid people rarely find their way to 6.5 mil a year gigs. How many here are in that income bracket?

No one.

NO ONE, dumps a 27 year old player who you can pencil in for 80 catches 1100 yards and 8 TDs without GOOD cause.

Is it so hard to accept that they know something we do not? The list of reasons why they would keep us out of the know is plentiful. It begins with liability, and libel issues. They have no incentive to tell us why they cut the guy lose other than to placate a disgruntled (and arguably moronic) fan.

I'm not suggesting blind faith in the leadership of the team we love. But denying they know more about what they're doing than we do is ridiculous.

In the end, you've got two choices . . .

1: Fall apart, act like a 'tard, and lose more hair ranting and raving about something they clearly think was the right move for the team going forward.

or

2: Taking a wait and see approach and enjoying the upcoming season of iggles football.

After the rapid turn around of last year, I have no problem affording Chipah some measure of patience with building his program.
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 2 2014, 11:43 AM) *
After the rapid turn around of last year, I have no problem affording Chipah some measure of patience with building his program.

agreed. in my opinion we are way ahead on the rebuilding schedule. Despite the magic of last season, this was not a superbowl year.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 10:00 AM) *
No, no, no.

1. If the LA cops were going to go 'APRIL FOOL'S HE'S WANTED FOR MURDER!' then that day was yesterday. He's got a shorter criminal record than most of us on this board.

2. Anyone who's been reading the threads know I disagree with cutting him, at least in this manner.

3. I would've answered 'no' to this a few weeks ago - now we've gotten significantly worse. Honestly, out of all the fan bases in the freaking country, are we seriously
poo-pooing transferring 82 catches, 1300 yards, and 9 td's to a division rival?! That's what shocks me the most here. In my lifetime we've had about 4 or 5 wide receivers
of note, DJax is already one of the top 3 in franchise history. Some people are acting like these guys come along every year. wacko.gif

you can have the stats. i'll take the wins.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 01:40 PM) *
you can have the stats. i'll take the wins.


Brilliant. You do know that stats tend to lead to more wins, correct? This is why we pay attention to them. How long have you
been watching football?
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 01:57 PM) *
Brilliant. You do know that stats tend to lead to more wins, correct? This is why we pay attention to them. How long have you
been watching football?

That's faulty logic on your part. Great individual stats do not equate to team wins. Chicago had 2 x 1200+ yard receivers last season they finished 8-8. Josh Gordan had 1600+ receiving yards for CLE, they finished 4-12. How about Pitts Antonio Brown, 1500 receiving yards or Andre Johnson (HOU) 1400 or Washington's Garcon 1300 yards, Dez Bryant (DAL) 1200 yards etc..

You know what they all have in common? None of them were in the post season last year. None of their teams finished over .500. Yet they all had great stats.

Great individual stats just gives fans something to talk about when comparing players.

With regards to DeSean's season last year, he had 1332 yards. Of those 1300+ yards 670 of them came in 4/16 games. He had 5 games where he had less than 40 yards receiving. Outside of his 'monster' games he averaged 55/ypg
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 02:33 PM) *
That's faulty logic on your part. Great individual stats do not equate to team wins. Chicago had 2 x 1200+ yard receivers last season they finished 8-8. Josh Gordan had 1600+ receiving yards for CLE, they finished 4-12. How about Pitts Antonio Brown, 1500 receiving yards or Andre Johnson (HOU) 1400 or Washington's Garcon 1300 yards, Dez Bryant (DAL) 1200 yards etc..

You know what they all have in common? None of them were in the post season last year. None of their teams finished over .500. Yet they all had great stats.

Great individual stats just gives fans something to talk about when comparing players.

With regards to DeSean's season last year, he had 1332 yards. Of those 1300+ yards 670 of them came in 4/16 games. He had 5 games where he had less than 40 yards receiving. Outside of his 'monster' games he averaged 55/ypg


So if we traded DJax for Golden Tate, you would be applauding the move?
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 02:43 PM) *
So if we traded DJax for Golden Tate, you would be applauding the move?

All we have to do is give the ball to LeSean 20+ times game and we are assured of a victory, right?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 02:50 PM) *
All we have to do is give the ball to LeSean 20+ times game and we are assured of a victory, right?


Pretty damn close, according to the stats. Want to answer my question now?
samaroo
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 01:50 PM) *
All we have to do is give the ball to LeSean 20+ times game and we are assured of a victory, right?


I laughed at this! laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 09:00 AM) *
No, no, no.

1. If the LA cops were going to go 'APRIL FOOL'S HE'S WANTED FOR MURDER!' then that day was yesterday. He's got a shorter criminal record than most of us on this board.

2. Anyone who's been reading the threads know I disagree with cutting him, at least in this manner.

3. I would've answered 'no' to this a few weeks ago - now we've gotten significantly worse. Honestly, out of all the fan bases in the freaking country, are we seriously
poo-pooing transferring 82 catches, 1300 yards, and 9 td's to a division rival?! That's what shocks me the most here. In my lifetime we've had about 4 or 5 wide receivers
of note, DJax is already one of the top 3 in franchise history. Some people are acting like these guys come along every year. wacko.gif

Agreed with all of this. Especially point 3. It's like our fanbase completely forgets how difficult it was to acquire a playmaking WR.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 2 2014, 03:34 PM) *
Agreed with all of this. Especially point 3. It's like our fanbase completely forgets how difficult it was to acquire a playmaking
WR.


Seriously. When I started playing Madden in college I was sending Torrance Small on fly patterns.
JeeQ
You have to have faith in our front office... They've earned it with their zero Super Bowls and zero playoff wins since McNabb left. Obviously they know what they're doing
MistahNickells
dont know what to think of the poll since it was bad poll choices, that being said I hope they know something because I dont see any justification for the release, unless its just they didnt want to pay tha man
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 08:41 PM) *
Seriously. When I started playing Madden in college I was sending Torrance Small on fly patterns.

Now there is a memory I didn't need back sad.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 06:33 PM) *
That's faulty logic on your part. Great individual stats do not equate to team wins. Chicago had 2 x 1200+ yard receivers last season they finished 8-8. Josh Gordan had 1600+ receiving yards for CLE, they finished 4-12. How about Pitts Antonio Brown, 1500 receiving yards or Andre Johnson (HOU) 1400 or Washington's Garcon 1300 yards, Dez Bryant (DAL) 1200 yards etc..

You know what they all have in common? None of them were in the post season last year. None of their teams finished over .500. Yet they all had great stats.

Great individual stats just gives fans something to talk about when comparing players.

With regards to DeSean's season last year, he had 1332 yards. Of those 1300+ yards 670 of them came in 4/16 games. He had 5 games where he had less than 40 yards receiving. Outside of his 'monster' games he averaged 55/ypg

Boom! Rhetorical smack down achieved.

I love the "how long have you been watching football" attempt. A swing and a miss.
D Rock
nm
make_it_rain
Clearly Cleveland should just release Josh Gordon and let him go to the Steelers then, with no compensation.

His production didn't do enough to help the team win, and I mean, the guy has major off field problems (cough drugs cough). Clearly he is a locker room distraction and will be a bad influence on the "system" that Pettine is trying to put together in Cleveland. Besides, its a deep draft, Cleveland can just replace Gordon with someone younger and cheaper, who is a better fit for the "system". ohmy.gif
Phits
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 2 2014, 05:18 PM) *
Clearly Cleveland should just release Josh Gordon and let him go to the Steelers then, with no compensation.

His production didn't do enough to help the team win, and I mean, the guy has major off field problems (cough drugs cough). Clearly he is a locker room distraction and will be a bad influence on the "system" that Pettine is trying to put together in Cleveland. Besides, its a deep draft, Cleveland can just replace Gordon with someone younger and cheaper, who is a better fit for the "system". ohmy.gif

or maybe they should just keep him and continue with their trend of on field success for the last decade. either way i don't give a rat's ass what they do in cleveland.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 2 2014, 05:18 PM) *
Clearly Cleveland should just release Josh Gordon and let him go to the Steelers then, with no compensation.

His production didn't do enough to help the team win, and I mean, the guy has major off field problems (cough drugs cough). Clearly he is a locker room distraction and will be a bad influence on the "system" that Pettine is trying to put together in Cleveland. Besides, its a deep draft, Cleveland can just replace Gordon with someone younger and cheaper, who is a better fit for the "system". ohmy.gif


You're dealing with people who are bending over backwards to justify cutting a Pro-Bowler for nothing in return, and who say stats don't matter. Let Phits and his
lapdog believe what they want, I'm sure it will all work out.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 06:42 PM) *
You're dealing with people who are bending over backwards to justify cutting a Pro-Bowler for nothing in return, and who say stats don't matter. Let Phits and his
lapdog believe what they want, I'm sure it will all work out.

20+ carries = wins ..... we have no reason to be concerned

Here are some more stats for you, the return of Maclin (800+ yards) and the inclusion of Sproles (600+ yards) make up for Jackson's stats.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Here are some more stats for you, the return of Maclin (800+ yards) and the inclusion of Sproles (600+ yards) make up for Jackson's stats.


Awesome, I think we're on the same page now. Hey, how about this - let's cut Shady (he makes too much), and sign 3 running backs who each had 800 yards rushing last
year. How about instead of Maclin, we pick up two WRs for dirt cheap who had 400 yards last year. Cool?

You've completely jumped the shark on this debate.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 06:50 PM) *
Awesome, I think we're on the same page now. Hey, how about this - let's cut Shady (he makes too much), and sign 3 running backs who each had 800 yards rushing last
year. How about instead of Maclin, we pick up two WRs for dirt cheap who had 400 yards last year. Cool?

You've completely jumped the shark on this debate.

That only makes since if any of the new RB's get 20+ carries per game.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 07:11 PM) *
That only makes since if any of the new RB's get 20+ carries per game.


That's a lot of offensive plays, no? Probably should've just stuck with Shady.

Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 07:22 PM) *
That's a lot of offensive plays, no? Probably should've just stuck with Shady.

It's a rapid fire offense. besides 20+ carries per back will give us 3 wins per game. hopefully the rest of the league doesn't catch up to your statistic anomaly.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 2 2014, 07:29 PM) *
It's a rapid fire offense. besides 20+ carries per back will give us 3 wins per game. hopefully the rest of the league doesn't catch up to your statistic anomaly.


Funny how you used to agree with me on this, when I used this stat to show why Andy needed to run the ball more. With DJax on the field, if the defense doesn't know
what's coming, then guess what? We win. Last year, Chip utilized Shady extremely well, and it resulted in not only him having an amazing year, but DJax. Now we don't
have that WR threat on the field, and opposing safeties will be able to cheat up more to stop Shady. And in case you haven't noticed, Sproles is a RB, he won't be lining up
outside much.

I'm sure everyone against this move will be happy to eat crow. But it certainly is unorthodox to release a Pro Bowl WR while getting nothing in return.
nephillymike
No, No and Fuck No.

Got to give them credit.

They just cut a Pro Bowl WR, got nothing in return, who went to a division rival, and only 57% on this board thinks they shouldn't have cut him.

Distract the fan base with the left hand by not denying (best case, or planting, worst case) a story about criminal gang ties.

Use a mirror leaking how bad of a teammate he was to a few in the press.

While all along, the right hand pockets the $10.75M while very few realize that it was a money issue all along. Not that they didn't want to invest all that money in the WR corps (which given the deals for Cooper and Maclin is understandable) it's that they didn't want to invest the money in this year's team at all!!

Maybe the fans will return the favor.

Joe Banner has got to be smiling somewhere!
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 2 2014, 07:36 PM) *
Funny how you used to agree with me on this, when I used this stat to show why Andy needed to run the ball more. With DJax on the field, if the defense doesn't know
what's coming, then guess what? We win. Last year, Chip utilized Shady extremely well, and it resulted in not only him having an amazing year, but DJax.

I agreed that Andy needed to run the ball more. I never agreed with the notion that there was a magic number.

QUOTE
Now we don't
have that WR threat on the field, and opposing safeties will be able to cheat up more to stop Shady. And in case you haven't noticed, Sproles is a RB, he won't be lining up
outside much.

Maclin is a quality receiver. In this offense he should be a significant threat. As for Sproles, he had 600 receiving yards last year vs. 220 yards on the ground. In Chip's offense you never know where he will line him.

QUOTE
I'm sure everyone against this move will be happy to eat crow. But it certainly is unorthodox to release a Pro Bowl WR while getting nothing in return.
It certainly is an unorthodox move. Which makes me believe that there must have been a significant amount of thought put into it.
JeeQ
I've learned a fun fact after reading through these message boards...

Even though DeSean was lazy, was late to meetings, missed practices, was a bad teammate, a locker room cancer, argued with coaches, rolled with a gang, ran a rap record label, and a drug empire...

He was still the 3rd best on pace to be 1st WR in Eagles history, had a career year, and is better than every other WR we've had on our roster since TO left...

Good thing this WR draft class is so deep! Bound to plenty of #1 quality WRs! As easy as Jackson was to find we may even draft two of them!
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 2 2014, 06:47 PM) *
No, No and Fuck No.

Got to give them credit.

They just cut a Pro Bowl WR, got nothing in return, who went to a division rival, and only 57% on this board thinks they shouldn't have cut him.

Distract the fan base with the left hand by not denying (best case, or planting, worst case) a story about criminal gang ties.

Use a mirror leaking how bad of a teammate he was to a few in the press.

While all along, the right hand pockets the $10.75M while very few realize that it was a money issue all along. Not that they didn't want to invest all that money in the WR corps (which given the deals for Cooper and Maclin is understandable) it's that they didn't want to invest the money in this year's team at all!!

Maybe the fans will return the favor.

Joe Banner has got to be smiling somewhere!


I think this is your best post that I can recall. Can't believe more people don't see the obvious.

It's a money play, but money we had to burn this year and isn't gonna be allocated elsewhere. We'll probably be competitive this year and we may even beat the Skins twice. But we are less talented than a week ago. But DJax was a malcontent who "didn't buy into the system" and "may have had gang ties." Amazing how they didn't know about all those things when they signed his contract last year. And you wonder why he wanted a few guarantees.

A few less headaches for the head coach and a few less zeroes for the owner.
The fucking gang story broke 40 minutes before he was released. Give me a fucking break.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 2 2014, 06:47 PM) *
No, No and Fuck No.

Got to give them credit.

They just cut a Pro Bowl WR, got nothing in return, who went to a division rival, and only 57% on this board thinks they shouldn't have cut him.

Distract the fan base with the left hand by not denying (best case, or planting, worst case) a story about criminal gang ties.

Use a mirror leaking how bad of a teammate he was to a few in the press.

While all along, the right hand pockets the $10.75M while very few realize that it was a money issue all along. Not that they didn't want to invest all that money in the WR corps (which given the deals for Cooper and Maclin is understandable) it's that they didn't want to invest the money in this year's team at all!!

Maybe the fans will return the favor.

Joe Banner has got to be smiling somewhere!

Mikey, this is what I meant by my Pavlov comment. I realize you've stated that DeSean has some culpability in this mess, but it always seems to come down to the TEAM fucked up. I'm not saying they didn't, what I'm saying is that there's really little evidence other than fuzzy lines between a story published and the prompt release. I'd hate to have some of you guys on a jury if I get in trouble.

No way I'm happy Jackson isn't running down field at 100 mph for the Eagles and IS for the Redskins. I'm less happy that the Eagles didn't get anything in return for that. I'm not happy that we don't know wtf happened. I do know that we DON'T KNOW!
D Rock
What you folks fail to get is that this gang business is NOT new. Nor is it unique.

I've lived in SoCal for 15 years. Long Beach is about 40 mins south of me and I've gone there many times for many reasons.

"Gang affiliations" and "gang affiliated friends" are part and parcel to ANY kid that grew up in the LBC. This is not news. This is not ground breaking. This is not earth shattering. Most importantly, this is NOT why desean was released.

They knew about where he was from before he was drafted. They knew about this stuff before they offered his extension.

Why is it so hard for y'all to accept that we simply don't know why he was released. As one who knows many folks that came up in the LBC, EVERYBODY there knows crips and bloods on an intimate and personal level.

Get over it already. He wasn't released because of the NJ.com story.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 3 2014, 07:23 AM) *
Mikey, this is what I meant by my Pavlov comment. I realize you've stated that DeSean has some culpability in this mess, but it always seems to come down to the TEAM fucked up. I'm not saying they didn't, what I'm saying is that there's really little evidence other than fuzzy lines between a story published and the prompt release. I'd hate to have some of you guys on a jury if I get in trouble.

No way I'm happy Jackson isn't running down field at 100 mph for the Eagles and IS for the Redskins. I'm less happy that the Eagles didn't get anything in return for that. I'm not happy that we don't know wtf happened. I do know that we DON'T KNOW!



Yes I know I've been saying the team fucked up.

The only thing that saves them if there was something earth shattering that happened after Feb 28th before cut day.

I don't give a damn if Jackson was the biggest pain in the ass, ganster criminal or whatever.

In some ways, good riddance to his childish ass.

But as a fan, what I demand, is that the team put his money to good use and improve the team this free agency period.

They didn't. And we're worse for it.

Of course it's selfish on my part.

I want to be happy. Them winning makes me happy. I want a title.

I know the two or three FA's they could have signed this FA period that they didn't would make that more likely than it is now.

Our talent level is such on this team that the days of rolling forward 20M+ cap space to future years should be over.

THAT is all team.

Sorry. I know you are holding out hope. I can see in your posts that your resolve is getting shakier with each passing day. I feel your pain.

It would be great if the team is exonerated for not cutting him pre FA.

It's just that when a team continuously carries that much forward year after year, you got to ask the question is this year the exception or the rule.

Seems to me it's the rule.

I am open to be pleasantly surprised by a change of events.

Won't make or team any better for this year, but at least it will spring hope that we're committed as we should be.
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