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make_it_rain
Let's throw some more fuel on the fire......

Word has it the Dolphins are gauging what they can get for him.

Link

Wondering what they would be asking for, and also what Eagles would conisder giving up to get this guy.

Would you give up #22 to pull the trigger?
nephillymike
Yes, no question.

He would be the OLB we need, then we could use the 2nd -3rd for CB, S.

The thing is, MIA would take a huge salary cap hit, and the value teams put on draft picks, we may be able to get him for our 2nd with a sweetener.

How about our 2nd plus V. Curry. We'd get a 3-4 OLB, they'd get a 4-3 DE plus a pick.

Would you do that?

One question. Is he thought of as a bust in MIA? Any character issues?
make_it_rain
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 28 2014, 03:14 PM) *
Yes, no question.

He would be the OLB we need, then we could use the 2nd -3rd for CB, S.

The thing is, MIA would take a huge salary cap hit, and the value teams put on draft picks, we may be able to get him for our 2nd with a sweetener.

How about our 2nd plus V. Curry. We'd get a 3-4 OLB, they'd get a 4-3 DE plus a pick.

Would you do that?

One question. Is he thought of as a bust in MIA? Any character issues?


From what I've read, he's not so much regarded as a bust in Mia as he is a poor scheme fit. He was seen as a bit raw coming off of shoulder surgery, but I still think he can be a player, especially with a scheme and coach he's familiar with. He seems a much better fit as an edge rusher in a 3-4, which coincidentally is one of this team's biggest needs.

As dysfunctional as the Dolphins are, I don't even think they care about the cap hit they would take, as that was the main reason I thought Jordan initially wouldn't be traded.

From what I've read, most speculation is Miami would want at least a second rounder for him, so if the chance to get Jordan for a second plus Curry came up, I think you have to do it. I love Curry, but he just doesn't see the field much and this deal would get him somewhere he's a better fit and fill a huge need.
Eyrie
Given that Miami traded up for him I'd be very surprised to get Jordan for a second, even with Curry included.

But I'd be willing to offer our first and Curry for Jordan and their third. Kelly knows the player's ability and character so I have no concerns there.
nephillymike
I looked up last year's draft stuff and Draftek who does a pretty good job distinguising positions between 34OLB and 43DE's. They will list the positions and also list how they rate at each spot.

Some guys are rated much higher at 34OLB than 43DE and vice versa.

Last year, Jordan was rated the 2nd best prospect among all players at all positions in the entire draft when rated as a 34OLB and he was rated 7th overall when rated as a 43DE. So the expectation was that there was no big difference OLB vs DE. Many times there is a big difference but not for him. That being the case, I am slightly more concerned about bust potential.
nephillymike
A few things:

#1. The GM who drafted him is gone. No sentimental pick for the new guy.

#2 With his mediocre at best first year, if Jordan was able to be drafted in this year's draft, I don't think he is higher than #22, and may be lower.

That being the case, I think my 2nd plus Curry is more fair value than giving up our #22..

The large cap hit is an obstacle, but the cap did go up by a bunch more than they thought, so they have more room than they otherwise would have.
nephillymike
Eagles 24/7 is the best football site IMO.

Check out this scouting report compilation from last year.

I am re-warming up to the idea of him coming here. I forgot that our DL coach was also from Oregon.

Warming up I say!!


http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/02/...lb-dion-jordan/
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 28 2014, 03:14 PM) *
Yes, no question.

He would be the OLB we need, then we could use the 2nd -3rd for CB, S.

The thing is, MIA would take a huge salary cap hit, and the value teams put on draft picks, we may be able to get him for our 2nd with a sweetener.

How about our 2nd plus V. Curry. We'd get a 3-4 OLB, they'd get a 4-3 DE plus a pick.

Would you do that?

One question. Is he thought of as a bust in MIA? Any character issues?

If Howie, Kelly and Davis think he'd be a factor in this defense I'd piss my pants over getting him for a #2 and Curry.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 28 2014, 08:21 PM) *
If Howie, Kelly and Davis think he'd be a factor in this defense I'd piss my pants over getting him for a #2 and Curry.


The "Depends" Are on Me!!
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 28 2014, 08:46 PM) *
The "Depends" Are on Me!!

Then if they get Jordan I'll join you in wearing them. biggrin.gif
nephillymike
http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

Interesting look at the Jordan trade possibility.

He was the 3rd pick of the draft worth 2200 on the trade chart.

We have the 22nd pick this year, worth 780 points.

If they would like to pretend, he is still worthy of the 3rd pick status, we would be short 1,420 trade points.

If we gave them every pick in this years draft, we'd still be 777 trade points short, which would be next year's #22 roughly!

So how does Dion Jordan for all of our picks this year (#22, #54, #86, a 4th, two 5ths, and a 7th) AND next year's 1st sound?

That's a huge gap.

Hopefully other teams bring MIA into reality, and they realize that based on his poor performance last year, Jordan would not likely be a first round pick this year and we can get him for our 2nd and Curry.

BTW, FWIW, Didinger was on Sat AM and said that he never liked Jordan because it was all potential and he hardly did anything on the field.

He said he predicted bust and hasn't seen anything in the NFL to change his mind.

Ouch!
make_it_rain
Also, looks like Dolphins are unlikely to shop Jordan now:

Boooo

We'll likely have to look elsewhere for that edge rusher now.
nephillymike
Don't give up hope.

The article says it wouldn't be surprised if Hickey dangles the 3-4 limited Jordan who is buried in the depth chart.

It does say no go on Wallace and Wake, but that doesn't concern us.
Zero
Here's a pretty interesting analysis of Jordan, Part I.
QUOTE
One of the things I want to really touch on in this post, is what I have realized are perhaps some "misconceptions" about Dion Jordan and his rookie season. I've read some comments about how Jordan doesn't fit the Dolphins defense. He is not an ideal 4-3 Defensive End, and he's not a SAM LB in a 4-3. Furthermore, he's at best a situational pass rusher in their scheme. After reviewing all of his defensive snaps in 2013. I don't really agree with that.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 7 2014, 06:36 AM) *
Here's a pretty interesting analysis of Jordan, Part I.

Good stuff, thanks.

The guy says he's a decent 43de. I wonder how his skills are thought to be for a 34olb?

Maybe part 2 will touch on that.

I still say our 2nd round pick and either Graham or Curry. I don't give up #22.
PhrankieG
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 28 2014, 07:44 PM) *
A few things:

#1. The GM who drafted him is gone. No sentimental pick for the new guy.

#2 With his mediocre at best first year, if Jordan was able to be drafted in this year's draft, I don't think he is higher than #22, and may be lower.

That being the case, I think my 2nd plus Curry is more fair value than giving up our #22..

The large cap hit is an obstacle, but the cap did go up by a bunch more than they thought, so they have more room than they otherwise would have.



Yeah, but the new GM would look like a fool if his first move is to move is to trade the #3 overall choice for a second and what would be a backup for Miami. They have Cam Wake a kid named Oliver Vernon, who came on strong last year. They wouldn't want Curry. They need secondary help, a RB and OLinemen. I think Miami floating him out there is just a rumor. They will give him a chance to be a defensive play maker this year. I think they wanted him to bulk up and recover from injury (see Nerlens Noel) before getting him fully involved.
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