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nephillymike
All the talk last week heading into the Super Bowl and this week after the Super Bowl about Manning's place among the greats got Mikey Numbers to thinking.

If you take a cold hard look at the achievements of what I think most consider the top QB's of the modern era, it is easier to put things in perspective and to come up with an informed opinion of the greatest that ever were.


I will concentrate only on QB's who have played from 1983 forward, and I exclude Aaron Rodgers as his career has not accumulated enough yet (68th All-time passing yards)

This will take a little while to type the stats in, so I will do it in three posts.

This first one, will list the career awards won by what I consider to be the "Elite Eleven"

Name...........MVP's...All-Pro..Pro Bowls...Passing Yards..Rnk....Rating..Rnkof11
P. Manning.......5..........7...........13.............64,964......2nd........97.2....1st
B. Favre...........3..........3...........11.............71,838......1st.........86.0....7th
J. Montana.......2..........3.............8.............40,551......13th.......92.3....5th
S. Young..........2..........3.............7.............33,124......28th.......96.8....2nd
T. Brady...........2..........2.............9............49,149........7th.......95.7....3rd
D. Marino.........1..........3.............9............61,361........3rd.......86.4....6th
J. Elway...........1..........0.............9.............51,475.......4th.......79.9....11th
D. Brees...........0..........1.............8............51,081.......5th........95.3....4th
J. Kelly.............0..........1.............5............35,467......18th.......84.4....8th
W. Moon...........0..........0.............9............49,325........6th.......80.9...10th
T. Aikman.........0..........0.............6............32,942.......30th......81.6.....9th

nephillymike
How about playoff success? Ranked by descending order of playoff winning percentage

first three are total playoffs, next three are SB only, next three are Conf Championships only, last career passer rating for reference if they improved or dipped in the playoffs vs. career.


Name.........W-L...Rate..TD-INT.SBW-SBL..TD-INT.Rate...CCW-CCL.Rate.TD-INT..CarRate
Montana....16-7..95.6...45-21.......4-0.......11-0...127.8.....4-3......92.0..13-7.......92.3
Brady........18-8..87.7...43-22.......3-2.......9-2......93.8.....5-3......77.4....8-9.......95.7
Aikman......11-5..88.3...23-17.......3-0.......5-1....111.9.....3-1......100.3..8-3.......81.6
Elway........14-8..79.7...27-21.......2-3.......3-8.....59.3......5-1.......86.6..10-4......79.9
Young.......12-8...85.8..20-13........2-0.......6-0....134.1.....2-4.......79.2...4-4.......96.8
Brees.........6-5..100.5..24-6..........1-0.......2-0...114.5......1-1.......92.2...5-1.......95.3
Favre.......13-11..86.3..44-30........1-1........5-1....97.6......2-3......83.7....9-7.......86.0
Kelly..........9-8...72.3...21-26........0-4........2-7...56.9.......4-1......66.6....4-8......84.4
Manning....11-12.89.2..37-24.........1-2.......3-4....81.0......3-1.......86.9....7-5......97.2
Marino........8-10.77.1..32-24.........0-1.......1-2....66.9......1-2.......77.3....7-5......86.4
Moon..........3-7...84.9..17-14.........0-0.......0-0.....N/A......0-0........N/A....0-0......80.9
nephillymike
How about yearly rank in passer rating among the other Elite 11 and among the league QB's?

This will help put the ever rising Passer rating in context and show how they did against each other each year.

It also accounts for the fluctuating QB rating between years.

Year followed by the Name, Rating and Rank of each of the 11 QB's in the NFL that year
1980 - Montana 87.8 (5)
1981 - Montana 88.4 (4)
1982 - Montana 88.0 (5)
1983 - Marino 96.0 (3rd), Montana 94.6 (5th), Elway 54.9 (27th)
1984 - Marino 108.9 (1st), Montana 102.9 (2nd), Moon 76.9 (16th), Elway 76.8 (17th)
1985 - Montana 91.3 (3rd), Marino 84.1 (5th), Elway 70.2 (17th), Moon 68.5 (20th)
1986 - Marino 92.5 (2nd), Kelly 83.3 (8th), Montana 80.7 (10th), Elway 79.0 (11th), Moon 62.3 (26th)
1987 - Montana 102.1 (1st), Marino 89.2 (4th), Kelly 83.8 (10th), Elway 83.4 (11th), Moon 74.2 (17th)
1988 - Moon 88.4 (4th), Montana 87.9 (6th), Marino 80.8 (10th), Kelly 78.2 (13th), Elway 71.4 (18th)
1989 - Montana 112.4 (1), Moon 88.9(4), Kelly 86.2 (6), Marino 76.9 (11), Elway 73.7 (17), Aikman 55.7 (27)
1990 - Kelly 101.2 (1), Moon 96.8 (2), Montana 87.0 (7), Marino 82.6 (8), Elway 78.5 (14), Aikman 66.6 (26)
1991 - Young 101.8(1),Kelly 97.6(3), Aikman 86.7(6), Marino 85.8(7), Moon 81.7(10), Elway 75.4(19), Montana(I/R)
1992 - Young 107.0(1),Aikman 89.5(3),Moon 89.3(4), Favre 85.3(6), Marino 85.1(7), Kelly 81.2(10), Elway 65.7(20),Montana (I/R)
1993 - Young 101.5(1),Aikman 99.0(2),Elway 92.8(3),Montana 87.4(5),Kelly 79.9(13),Moon 75.2(18),Favre 72.2(20),Marino (I/R)
1994 - Young 112.8(1),Favre 90.7(2),Marino 89.2(3),Elway 85.7(4),Aikman 84.9(6),Kelly 84.6(7),Montana 83.6(8),Moon 79.9(13)
1995 - Favre 99.5(2), Aikman 93.6(3), Young 92.3(6),Moon 91.5(7), Marino 90.8 (8), Elway 86.4(14), Kelly 81.1(18)
1996 - Young 97.2(1),Favre 95.8(2),Elway 89.2(4),Marino 87.8(6),Aikman 80.1(12),Kelly 73.2(21),Moon 68.7(28)
1997 - Young 104.7(1),Favre 92.6(3),Elway 87.5(7),Moon 83.7(11),Marino 80.7(13),Aikman 78.0 (17)
1998 - Young 101.1(3),Elway 93.0(5),Aikman 88.5(8),Favre 87.8(10),Marino 80.0(18),Moon 76.6(19),Manning 71.2(23)
1999 - Manning 94.7(4), Aikman 81.1(14), Favre 74.7(25), Marino 67.5(30)
2000 - Manning 94.7(6), Favre 78.0(17), Aikman 64.3(32)
2001 - Favre 94.1(4), Brady 86.5(6), Manning 84.1(8)
2002 - Manning 88.8(5), Brady 85.7(9), Favre 85.6(11), Brees 76.9(24)
2003 - Manning 99.0(2), Favre 90.4(6), Brady 85.9(10), Brees 67.5(28)
2004 - Manning 121.1(1), Brees 104.8(3), Brady 92.6(9), Favre 92.4(10)
2005 - Manning 104.1(1), Brady 92.3(6), Brees 89.2(10), Favre 70.9(31)
2006 - Manning 101.0(1), Brees 96.2(3), Brady 87.9(9), Favre 72.7(25)
2007 - Brady 117.2 (1), Manning 98.0(4), Favre 95.7(6), Brees 89.4 (11)
2008 - Brees 96.2 (4), Manning 95.0 (5), Favre 81.0 (21), Brady (I/R)
2009 - Brees 109.6 (1), Favre 107.2 (2), Manning 99.9 (6), Brady 96.2 (9)
2010 - Brady 111.0 (1), Manning 91.9 (10), Brees 90.9 (12), Favre 69.9 (29)
2011 - Brees 110.6 (2), Brady 105.6 (3), Manning (I/R)
2012 - Manning 105.2 (2), Brady 98.7 (6), Brees 96.3 (8)
2013 - Manning 115.1 (2), Brees 104.7 (6), Brady 87.3 (17)
nephillymike
NFL Rankings In Passer Rating By Year.....................Avg/Yr,Avg/-2Yrs,Rnk Avg,RnkAdjAvg

1. Young.......1,1,1,1,6,1,1,3.....................................1.9.....1.0...1st.....1st
2. Manning....23,4,6,8,5,2,1,1,1,4,5,6,10,I/R,2,2..............5.3.....3.6...3rd.....2nd
3. Montana....5,4,5,5,2,3,10,1,6,1,7,I/R,I/R,5,8................4.8.....4.0...2nd....3rd
4. Brady........6,9,10,9,6,9,1,I/R,9,1,3,6,17......................7.2.....5.9...4th.....4th
5. Brees.........24,28,3,10,3,11,4,1,12,2,8,6......................9.3.....6.0...6th.....5th
6. Marino...3,1,5,2,4,10,11,8,7,7,I/R,3,8,16,13,18,30........9.1.....7.0...5th......6th
7. Kelly.........8,10,13,6,1,3,10,13,7,18,21.......................10.0.....7.9...7th.....7th
8. Aikman.....27,26,6,3,2,6,3,12,17,8,14,32.....................13.0.....9.7...9th.....8th
9. Favre..6,20,2,2,2,3,10,25,17,4,11,6,10,31,25,6,21,2,29.12.2....10.1..8th.....9th
10. Moon...16,20,26,17,4,4,2,10,4,18,13,7,28,11,19..........13.3...11.1..11th...10th
11. Elway...27,17,17,11,11,18,17,14,19,20,3,4,14,4,7,5.....13.0...11.5..10th...11th

The numbers above are the yearly rankings in NFL passer rating.
The first average is the straight average of their rankings
The next average removes their worst two years
The next is their rank among the Elite 11 in straight average NFL passer rating rank
Last number is their rank among Elite 11 after you take out the two worst years.
nephillymike
After weighing all of the above, my Elite Eleven are ranked as follows:

1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Young
5. Favre
6. Marino
7. Elway
8. Brees
9. Aikman
10. Kelly
11. Moon
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 9 2014, 09:58 AM) *
After weighing all of the above, my Elite Eleven are ranked as follows:

1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Young
5. Favre
6. Marino
7. Elway
8. Brees
9. Aikman
10. Kelly
11. Moon


If the only reason Manning ever won one was Grossman, then the only reason Favre ever won one was Bledsoe. Sometimes numbers just don't matter.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Feb 9 2014, 04:52 PM) *
If the only reason Manning ever won one was Grossman, then the only reason Favre ever won one was Bledsoe. Sometimes numbers just don't matter.

I don't follow your comment.

FWIW, for all of Manning's failures, he's third in playoff passer rating of the eleven, behind only Montana and Brees.

And say the Bears great ST's ran two kicks back for TD's that day instead of one and he lost that game while putting up the same stats, how much worse would that be.

Interested in your opinion if anyone comes off as being better or worse than you heard/remembered after looking at the numbers.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 9 2014, 05:14 PM) *
I don't follow your comment.

FWIW, for all of Manning's failures, he's third in playoff passer rating of the eleven, behind only Montana and Brees.

And say the Bears great ST's ran two kicks back for TD's that day instead of one and he lost that game while putting up the same stats, how much worse would that be.

Interested in your opinion if anyone comes off as being better or worse than you heard/remembered after looking at the numbers.


My comment was knocking Favre - some people say Manning shouldn't be considered one of the top QBs because of his big game choking, and that he only won a ring
because he was facing Grossman. I was saying that you can say the same thing about Favre, that he only won one because he was facing Bledsoe.

It was an interesting set of numbers to look at, but multiple rings have to outweigh talent sometimes. Manning and Marino deserve to be in the top 5 because of their talent,
but Montana and Brady have to be the top 2 because of their rings. I'd put Elway, Young, Brees, and Rodgers (regardless of his young career) next. Then Aikman because
of the championships. And why isn't Kurt Warner on this list? I'd take him over Favre, Kelly, and Moon.
D Rock
Look at that. I completely agree. Who'd a thunk it possible?
Eyrie
Favre will always divide opinions. On his day he was the equal of a Montana, Marino or Manning, but he could equally be bone-headed eg the wounded duck to Dawkins in the playoffs or gifting Strahan that sack when the Packers OL had done an excellent job of protecting him all game. The negatives outweigh the positives on him for me.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Feb 10 2014, 12:15 AM) *
My comment was knocking Favre - some people say Manning shouldn't be considered one of the top QBs because of his big game choking, and that he only won a ring
because he was facing Grossman. I was saying that you can say the same thing about Favre, that he only won one because he was facing Bledsoe.

It was an interesting set of numbers to look at, but multiple rings have to outweigh talent sometimes. Manning and Marino deserve to be in the top 5 because of their talent,
but Montana and Brady have to be the top 2 because of their rings. I'd put Elway, Young, Brees, and Rodgers (regardless of his young career) next. Then Aikman because
of the championships. And why isn't Kurt Warner on this list? I'd take him over Favre, Kelly, and Moon.



I will add Warner.

Can't believe I completely forgot about him!!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 10 2014, 01:46 PM) *
I will add Warner.

Can't believe I completely forgot about him!!


Believe me, I wish I could forget about him too. Only Peyton Manning has taken two different teams to the Super Bowl besides him in this era, both of his CCG
victories at our expense.

*edit Craig Morton and Earl Morrall did it way back
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