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Zero
This guy seems to believe the Eagles' D is heading in the right direction. I've also read, contrary to some opinions I've read here, that a guy like Cox is still learning the 3-4 and should/could really move up next year. At least this is good food for 2014 hope. Also interesting the difference of his view between the Chiefs and the Eagles.
QUOTE
Things started out rough for Billy Davis as he tried to merge his personnel and schemes, but it all started to come together right about the time that Chip Kelly found his franchise quarterback in Nick Foles. From Weeks 1 through 9, Philadelphia ranked 30th in FOís metrics, but they vaulted to 12th in the seasonís second half. The strongest improvement came against the run, where the Eagles improved from 22nd to fifth.
QUOTE
The Eagles should be seen as a potential force contender in 2014. That wonít take any of the sting out of this seasonís end, though.
Linc ...
koolaidluke
Post week 9 the Eagles D was clearly one of the 5 best in the league. FO's metrics can blow me.

Whether or not the Eagles will sustain it, I couldn't tell you. They definitely won't sustain the rate of turnovers they were getting over the last half of the season but I don't think that is necessarily a big deal.
D Rock
Cox doesn't lack talent. Nor is he "learning" a new scheme after a full spring, summer, and season. The problem w Cox is effort. It's plain to see on the field. Some guys take plays off. Cox takes games off.

MAJOR red flag as I see it. You can't coach effort.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 8 2014, 10:33 AM) *
Cox doesn't lack talent. Nor is he "learning" a new scheme after a full spring, summer, and season. The problem w Cox is effort. It's plain to see on the field. Some guys take plays off. Cox takes games off.

MAJOR red flag as I see it. You can't coach effort.

I have no way of knowing one way or another what's Cox's effort is like from watching the games. What I do k now is that he's one of our team leaders in snaps along the defensive line. If his effort was so poor, I can't imagine that would be the case.

What I think we're seeing is a guy whose role is different than our previous expectations. He was drafted as a penetrating DT, but now he's playing the role of 3-4 end. That often requires him to take on more blockers and get in rushing lanes. Given that our rushing defense was so strong this year, I suspect his performance was more valuable than you believe it to be.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 8 2014, 05:18 PM) *
I have no way of knowing one way or another what's Cox's effort is like from watching the games. What I do k now is that he's one of our team leaders in snaps along the defensive line. If his effort was so poor, I can't imagine that would be the case.

What I think we're seeing is a guy whose role is different than our previous expectations. He was drafted as a penetrating DT, but now he's playing the role of 3-4 end. That often requires him to take on more blockers and get in rushing lanes. Given that our rushing defense was so strong this year, I suspect his performance was more valuable than you believe it to be.

Of course you do.

rolleyes.gif

Who are they going to take him off the field for? Geathers? Square? Please.

I fully understand the schematic differences from last year to this. But when you see a guy standing all alone by himself while a back is churning attempting to push the pile for a few xtra yards, it's evidence of a lack of "want to."

Funny you mention rushing defense. As I said, he didn't take plays off. He took games off. When he seemingly was giving legitimate effort, we stopped the run. Imagine that. Go back and watch the Saints game. They rushed for just under a buck fifty (not exactly "stopping the run") and I can cite at least a half dozen examples of Fletcher standing around, unblocked, late in the play when the back was driving the pile.

Just callin it like I sees it.
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 8 2014, 12:26 PM) *
Just callin it like I sees it.

We sold out to play the pass and that left the run D susceptible.

Just callin it like the rest of the world saw it.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 8 2014, 12:26 PM) *
Who are they going to take him off the field for? Geathers? Square? Please.


I literally lol'd.

bad sign?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 8 2014, 01:26 PM) *
Of course you do.

rolleyes.gif

Who are they going to take him off the field for? Geathers? Square? Please.

I fully understand the schematic differences from last year to this. But when you see a guy standing all alone by himself while a back is churning attempting to push the pile for a few xtra yards, it's evidence of a lack of "want to."

Funny you mention rushing defense. As I said, he didn't take plays off. He took games off. When he seemingly was giving legitimate effort, we stopped the run. Imagine that. Go back and watch the Saints game. They rushed for just under a buck fifty (not exactly "stopping the run") and I can cite at least a half dozen examples of Fletcher standing around, unblocked, late in the play when the back was driving the pile.

Just callin it like I sees it.

You could be right - I know I don't focus my attention on Cox on most plays. I just know that one of the primary reasons Curry wasn't seeing the field at all early in the season was because he wasn't doing his job.

I think, just out of precedent, Chip would have benched Cox if he didn't think his effort was up to snuff. And Geathers had a good year, so that could have been an option.

As for the Saints running the ball...we had to give up something. We absolutely shut down their best offensive weapon and Brees was well below his norm. That is what opened up the run game.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 8 2014, 06:41 PM) *
We sold out to play the pass and that left the run D susceptible.

So Cox gets give no effort when they decide to run, because the game plan was to stop the pass?

Glad you're not coaching.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 8 2014, 06:58 PM) *
You could be right - I know I don't focus my attention on Cox on most plays. I just know that one of the primary reasons Curry wasn't seeing the field at all early in the season was because he wasn't doing his job.

I think, just out of precedent, Chip would have benched Cox if he didn't think his effort was up to snuff. And Geathers had a good year, so that could have been an option.

As for the Saints running the ball...we had to give up something. We absolutely shut down their best offensive weapon and Brees was well below his norm. That is what opened up the run game.

Again. I get the game plan.

But that doesn't give the D line the play off when they "surprise" them with a run call. Or are you suggesting Fletcher Cox was covering Graham?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 8 2014, 04:22 PM) *
Again. I get the game plan.

But that doesn't give the D line the play off when they "surprise" them with a run call. Or are you suggesting Fletcher Cox was covering Graham?

Like I said, I don't really watch specific players during the course of the game. I wouldn't be able to tell you if an individual player took "entire games off." Especially across the lines.

My suggestion is that our defense had to do something to curb the Saints offense. It was a team effort. My presumption is that they figured they could get away with giving up a bit more on the ground if that meant they could shut down the Saints biggest weapon and hold Brees to a subpar game. From my perspective, they did that and aren't the reason we lost on Saturday.

Whether Cox played shitty is beyond me. I haven't heard anyone suggest that is the case. I know he struggled early in the year, but my understanding is that people generally thought he had a good season. His position is one that's a bit tougher to judge from a pure statistics perspective.

Pro Football Focus is the one place I know that tries to break down every player on every play and this is the best I could find regarding Cox. Mind you, it's from week 9.

QUOTE
Fletcher Cox has 40 total pressures this year which is second most for all 3-4 defensive ends behind just J.J. Watt who has 41. As a rookie over the entire year, he just had 24.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...tions-week-9-2/

Whether or not you put much stock in PFF is up to you. I'm still not entirely sure what to think of their system.

make_it_rain
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 8 2014, 05:36 PM) *
Whether Cox played shitty is beyond me. I haven't heard anyone suggest that is the case. I know he struggled early in the year, but my understanding is that people generally thought he had a good season. His position is one that's a bit tougher to judge from a pure statistics perspective.

Pro Football Focus is the one place I know that tries to break down every player on every play and this is the best I could find regarding Cox. Mind you, it's from week 9.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...tions-week-9-2/

Whether or not you put much stock in PFF is up to you. I'm still not entirely sure what to think of their system.


I think for the most part they're pretty reliable, but like everything you need to take it with a grain of salt.

What irks me the most about PFF is the lack of transparency about their grading system/methodology for certain games. Supposedly they have a staff that watches EVERY play of EVERY game and grades based on that, but I havent really read much more about their methodologies besides that.

To be honest, I wonder if sometimes over at PFF they go "fuck it, just give him a +1.1 for this game", when grading random players, because no one can really challenge their methods.
koolaidluke
how would one person even be able to watch every position of every play of several games that fast?

Remember, each of them are doing like 3 games a week
make_it_rain
I've always wondered that actually. I don't know how many people they have on staff, but I'd imagine getting a team of knowledgeable people together to watch and grade every play of every game is no small undertaking.

The grades are usually published the following Monday afternoon as well, leaving not much time to get every play and player graded. Maybe everyone who works there just pulls an all nighter every Sunday/Monday, watching and rewatching the plays from all the games. Must be absolutely brutal if thats the case.
koolaidluke
I thought they were a staff of 5 guys?
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