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JeeQ
QUOTE
Well, now it’s official.

Cowboys coach Jason Garrett just told reporters that quarterback Tony Romo had back surgery this morning, and will be placed on injured reserve.

That puts an early end to the speculation about his condition, which was fueled by Garrett himself, who wouldn’t rule Romo out yesterday.

“We anticipate this surgery to solve the issue with his back,” Garrett said, via Charean Williams of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

That obviously puts all the pressure on backup Kyle Orton to carry them through Sunday night’s NFC East title game against the Eagles.


2013 December Romo - 1 Win, 2 Losses, & A Season-Ending Back Injury
nephillymike
I think they may have jumped the gun on the surgery. He only had one epidoral, normally you go for at least three with a bunch of therapy. As a rule of thumb, avoid back surgery. They have a low success rate.

He may be done as a QB.
mcnabbulous
They just gave him $55MM guaranteed this past offseason. Ouch.
Dreagon
Jerry is already saying he has no intention of drafting a QB high, so you can see what's already being discussed on the Dallas radio waves.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 27 2013, 05:43 PM) *
I think they may have jumped the gun on the surgery. He only had one epidoral, normally you go for at least three with a bunch of therapy. As a rule of thumb, avoid back surgery. They have a low success rate.

He may be done as a QB.

Apparently, he's had back issues for some time. The recent treatment was a last ditch effort before going under the knife. Romo is a very talented QB, it will be a shame if this is the end of his NFL career.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 27 2013, 07:34 PM) *
Apparently, he's had back issues for some time. The recent treatment was a last ditch effort before going under the knife. Romo is a very talented QB, it will be a shame if this is the end of his NFL career.


I just read that he has the 5th best passer rating of all time. Pretty insane.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 27 2013, 08:01 PM) *
I just read that he has the 5th best passer rating of all time. Pretty insane.

Yeah. The shortcomings always get the press coverage and the good stuff usually gets overlooked by the general public.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 27 2013, 08:12 PM) *
Yeah. The shortcomings always get the press coverage and the good stuff usually gets overlooked by the general public.


We've been lucky that he's been afforded the most incompetent GM in football.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 27 2013, 08:22 PM) *
We've been lucky that he's been afforded the most incompetent GM in football.

I don't know that that is true. There is a great deal of talent on a healthy Dallas team. They have the pieces and should be able to compete.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 27 2013, 08:30 PM) *
I don't know that that is true. There is a great deal of talent on a healthy Dallas team. They have the pieces and should be able to compete.


Look at Chip for the answer, he took a group and molded them into a TEAM, you can have all the talent in the NFL, but if they aren't a team it is just a bunch of crap. JJ will never hire a strong enough coach to make the boys into a team, and if he did it would not last long, there is only enough room for one ego like that in big D and Jerry is it.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 27 2013, 07:30 PM) *
I don't know that that is true. There is a great deal of talent on a healthy Dallas team. They have the pieces and should be able to compete.


The problem Romo had was that up until a year or two ago, none of that "talent" was on the offensive line in front of him. He took over for Drew Bledsoe, (who was immobile and getting killed out there) and suddenly started making that line look a lot better than it really was due to his ability to move in the pocket. Unfortunately Jerry took this as a sign that he could pretty much ignore the line, while everybody wondered why Romo was always making the scurrying throws that were so risky. Only recently has he finally started addressing the problem with guys like Smith and Frederick.

The other problem with that talent is that a lot of it is "bargains" that were players who Jerry thought he was drafting cheap because they spent much of their college careers hurt. Surprise! They turned out to be good in the pros too.....when they weren't hurt. Romo has talent around him...but Murray is often on the bench, Miles Austin's hamstring is now more famous than he is, Jason Witten is beginning to get up there in age, and Dez is....Dez.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Dec 28 2013, 04:06 AM) *
Look at Chip for the answer, he took a group and molded them into a TEAM, you can have all the talent in the NFL, but if they aren't a team it is just a bunch of crap. JJ will never hire a strong enough coach to make the boys into a team, and if he did it would not last long, there is only enough room for one ego like that in big D and Jerry is it.

Conclusive proof of that being Jimmy Johnson. Parcells was Jones' one subsequent attempt to admit a "yes" man was a bad idea.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 28 2013, 05:44 AM) *
Conclusive proof of that being Jimmy Johnson. Parcells was Jones' one subsequent attempt to admit a "yes" man was a bad idea.


I'd also point out that quite a few of their best players are still holdovers from the Parcells era. Once those guys are removed from the roster, they are pretty thin.
People get hung up on the big names and think a team is talented, but every team has a handful of those guys. It's the subsequent guys and depth that a bad GM fails to acquire. That's where Jerruh has destroyed that team.
Parcells had built something pretty decent. It didn't take Jerry long to wipe that out.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 28 2013, 12:18 PM) *
I'd also point out that quite a few of their best players are still holdovers from the Parcells era. Once those guys are removed from the roster, they are pretty thin.

Isn't that generally the case with most teams? The ideal situation is to have great depth on your team, but that doesn't usually happen....even with contending teams. How long has it taken us to find a replacement for Dawk? or even Lito & Brown? It took years for us to find a serviceable LB.

More importantly da boiz have talent beyond the big names, they aren't as thin as you think.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 28 2013, 01:07 PM) *
Isn't that generally the case with most teams? The ideal situation is to have great depth on your team, but that doesn't usually happen....even with contending teams. How long has it taken us to find a replacement for Dawk? or even Lito & Brown? It took years for us to find a serviceable LB.
If you're asking me to defend some of the decisions of our FO for much of the past decade, you're barking up the wrong tree. Our defensive issues are entirely a result of poor draft decisions.
Our offense, on the other hand, is stacked across the board. It's no surprise the success we are having there.

QUOTE
More importantly da boiz have talent beyond the big names, they aren't as thin as you think.

We'll have to agree to disagree. They aren't very good as a result of it.

Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 28 2013, 03:36 PM) *
If you're asking me to defend some of the decisions of our FO for much of the past decade, you're barking up the wrong tree. Our defensive issues are entirely a result of poor draft decisions.
Our offense, on the other hand, is stacked across the board. It's no surprise the success we are having there.

It should be surprising how dominant we are offensively because the same players didn't look nearly as efficient and dominant under our previous scheme.


QUOTE
We'll have to agree to disagree. They aren't very good as a result of it.

Given that Chip took Reid's 4-12 team and has them battling for a playoff berth and division title would suggest (at least to Eagles fans) that the system and/or coaching may be the biggest obstacle to the "success" of the Cowboy franchise. They haven't gotten past that to be able to determine whether the personnel is actually suited for the scheme that they are trying to run.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 28 2013, 05:18 PM) *
I'd also point out that quite a few of their best players are still holdovers from the Parcells era. Once those guys are removed from the roster, they are pretty thin.
People get hung up on the big names and think a team is talented, but every team has a handful of those guys. It's the subsequent guys and depth that a bad GM fails to acquire. That's where Jerruh has destroyed that team.
Parcells had built something pretty decent. It didn't take Jerry long to wipe that out.

Makes sense - you're only as strong as your weakest link.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 28 2013, 05:05 PM) *
It should be surprising how dominant we are offensively because the same players didn't look nearly as efficient and dominant under our previous scheme.



Given that Chip took Reid's 4-12 team and has them battling for a playoff berth and division title would suggest (at least to Eagles fans) that the system and/or coaching may be the biggest obstacle to the "success" of the Cowboy franchise. They haven't gotten past that to be able to determine whether the personnel is actually suited for the scheme that they are trying to run.


I think Chip is quite clearly a better offensive mind than Andy, but implying that the team we fielded last year was in the same boat as this team is disingenuous. Our entire offensive line is different, with the exception of Mathis. We were also using a rookie QB compared to a guy that has quite clearly made significant strides (although I acknowledge much of that is scheme/coaching related)
When I said we were stacked offensively, I was including the Oline. Kielce and Peters have been great this year. Peters' injury last year was enormous.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 29 2013, 01:56 PM) *
Peters' injury last year was enormous.

Do you mean to say that this All-Pro (level) offensive lineman was missed? and that he is a significant upgrade to his backup?

**just busting chops...don't blow a gasket cheers.gif
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 27 2013, 08:12 PM) *
Yeah. The shortcomings always get the press coverage and the good stuff usually gets overlooked by the general public.


Because only morons care about passer rating when your entire career is full of choking in big games. 10 years from now most NFL fans will remember him as 'that guy who
used to blow all those games for Dallas.' Many others will remember him as 'that dude who used to win me fantasy football games.'
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 29 2013, 02:50 PM) *
Do you mean to say that this All-Pro (level) offensive lineman was missed? and that he is a significant upgrade to his backup?

**just busting chops...don't blow a gasket cheers.gif


Ha, I knew some wise guy would give me grief about that. Yes, there is a significant difference between Peters and the turnstiles they had backing him up smile.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 29 2013, 03:21 PM) *
Because only morons care about passer rating when your entire career is full of choking in big games. 10 years from now most NFL fans will remember him as 'that guy who
used to blow all those games for Dallas.' Many others will remember him as 'that dude who used to win me fantasy football games.'


Yep, because as I've already pointed out...
In Dallas, quarterbacks are responsible for choking in big games. In Philly, the players have no accountability.
It's nice to see that you don't even believe your own bullshit.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 29 2013, 03:21 PM) *
Because only morons care about passer rating when your entire career is full of choking in big games. 10 years from now most NFL fans will remember him as 'that guy who
used to blow all those games for Dallas.' Many others will remember him as 'that dude who used to win me fantasy football games.'

He's won 63 games in 108 starts, I am quite certain there have been a number of big games in that total. Those fans who will remember him as 'that guy who used to blow all those games for Dallas.' are probably the one's who skim the sports pages and not watch the games. Despite being a Dallas Cowboy, Romo has been one of the better QB's in the league for almost 10 seasons. To dispute that is delusional.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
He's won 63 games in 108 starts, I am quite certain there have been a number of big games in that total


Sure you're certain - and other than Andy Reid's disgraceful and predictable 80% pass attack which handed him his 2 big game wins in 2009, I'm sure you could rattle many
of them off without going into a deep google search.

QUOTE
Despite being a Dallas Cowboy, Romo has been one of the better QB's in the league for almost 10 seasons. To dispute that is delusional.


He's consistently been a rock-solid 3rd round fantasy pick, always around the bubble of the top 10 best statistical QBs. In almost a decade as a starter, he has one playoff win,
and is known for monumental collapses in big games. THAT is what he will be remembered for, and to dispute that is delusional.


HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 29 2013, 03:29 PM) *
Yep, because as I've already pointed out...
In Dallas, quarterbacks are responsible for choking in big games. In Philly, the players have no accountability.
It's nice to see that you don't even believe your own bullshit.


Another day, another straw man. Go lie down little boy, men are talking.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 29 2013, 04:04 PM) *
Sure you're certain - and other than Andy Reid's disgraceful and predictable 80% pass attack which handed him his 2 big game wins in 2009, I'm sure you could rattle many of them off without going into a deep google search.

The Cowboys have been mired in mediocrity for some time. The Cowboys are more than just Tony Romo. He is a solid starter. Unless you take off your hate shades for Dallass you will fail to recognize that he is better than he is credited for. Throughout his professional career he's had 3 head coaches....in less than 10 years. Despite that he's had 20 fourth quarter comebacks and 23 game winning drives.

QUOTE
He's consistently been a rock-solid 3rd round fantasy pick, always around the bubble of the top 10 best statistical QBs. In almost a decade as a starter, he has one playoff win, and is known for monumental collapses in big games. THAT is what he will be remembered for, and to dispute that is delusional.

Peyton Manning is also known for his post season meltdowns. Let's not forget that as recently as last season he threw away the playoff game against Baltimore. Except he is the NFL poster boy so we only focus on the good.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
The Cowboys have been mired in mediocrity for some time.


How so? They've had one of the best QBs in football for a decade?!?!? rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Peyton Manning is also known for his post season meltdowns. Let's not forget that as recently as last season he threw away the playoff game against Baltimore. Except he
is the NFL poster boy so we only focus on the good.


Putting Manning in the same sentence as Romo proves how invalid your argument is. Manning was known for postseason meltdowns - until he won a ring. He also has 9
playoff victories. Unfortunately last year, he couldn't also play defense, as he 'threw' away a game against the Ravens, 38-35. Romo has one playoff win, a gift to him from
The Walrus, who seemed to be unaware that we had a great running back. Manning will be remembered for being arguably the greatest QB ever. Try again.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 29 2013, 05:55 PM) *
How so? They've had one of the best QBs in football for a decade?!?!? rolleyes.gif
Having a great QB doesn't automatically guarantee wins.

QUOTE
Unfortunately last year, he couldn't also play defense, as he 'threw' away a game against the Ravens, 38-35.

You can't have it both ways HOP. Manning had three turnovers that led directly to 17 points.
Dreagon
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 29 2013, 02:29 PM) *
Yep, because as I've already pointed out...
In Dallas, quarterbacks are responsible for choking in big games. In Philly, the players have no accountability.



Well, when that QB is the owner of a $100 million dollar contract, he has to accept that a lot of the responsibility for losses is going to fall on his shoulders.

But at the same time, it's only fair to him to point out that the next three "$50 million" players....Demarcus Ware, Miles Austin, and Brandon Carr...have all been pretty much invisible lately. Those are the guys we need to step up if we're going to have a chance. Up till now, Romo has been doing what little he has accomplished without them.
SpudDogg
Dreagon, you gonna hang out in our chat for the game?

It'll probably be rough, but you've taken it before smile.gif
Dreagon
QUOTE (SpudDogg @ Dec 29 2013, 07:00 PM) *
Dreagon, you gonna hang out in our chat for the game?

It'll probably be rough, but you've taken it before smile.gif


I'll try and drop by. I got some company but they won't be staying the whole game
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Dec 29 2013, 07:57 PM) *
Well, when that QB is the owner of a $100 million dollar contract, he has to accept that a lot of the responsibility for losses is going to fall on his shoulders.

But at the same time, it's only fair to him to point out that the next three "$50 million" players....Demarcus Ware, Miles Austin, and Brandon Carr...have all been pretty much invisible lately. Those are the guys we need to step up if we're going to have a chance. Up till now, Romo has been doing what little he has accomplished without them.


Oh I was just pointing out the hypocritical nature of that other dude's post. McNabb was never to blame for our losses, despite sporting a 65 QBR in playoff losses, but Romo is a 'serial choker.'
I tend to fault the players and front office decisions more so than coaches. It's hard to win when you make bad draft choices over a five year period. It caught up to us, which is why our defense has struggled. I think there are a handful of exceptional coaches and the other guys are mostly the same.
None of it matters if your guys can't execute, though.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Dec 29 2013, 07:57 PM) *
Well, when that QB is the owner of a $100 million dollar contract, he has to accept that a lot of the responsibility for losses is going to fall on his shoulders.

But at the same time, it's only fair to him to point out that the next three "$50 million" players....Demarcus Ware, Miles Austin, and Brandon Carr...have all been pretty much invisible lately. Those are the guys we need to step up if we're going to have a chance. Up till now, Romo has been doing what little he has accomplished without them.


Sure he has to accept it, he's been the face of your franchise for a decade and has one playoff win, and multiple big game collapses. Cowardly Reid-apologists who are
incapable of making arguments without straw-men seem to be lost on this fact, but that's expected.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 29 2013, 08:29 PM) *
Sure he has to accept it, he's been the face of your franchise for a decade and has one playoff win, and multiple big game collapses.


You can't be this dense
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