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koolaidluke
I'm trying to figure out what Foles ceiling is. In terms of production, you can't question him but I watch him his arm strength makes me cringe.

You don't need a supergun to be a good or even great QB, but Foles arm is clearly below every other elite and first tier QB. So I was thinking about other very good QBs with crap arms and the only one that really came to mind was Jeff Garcia. So what do you guys think, is Foles' arm as good as Garcia's was?

TGryn
I don't see his arm being nearly as bad as you are. He's hit all the short and intermediate passes with all the velocity needed, and when DJax has gotten open deep it seems like the issue has been more overthrowing him than with passes floating on him (which was a problem for Garcia in his later years).

In any case, Vick has one of the strongest arms we've seen around here in a while - even better than McNabb's in my opinion, though its like comparing Superman and the Hulk - but the offense is much better with Foles.
koolaidluke
I feel like if you watch Romo and watch Foles, Foles arm is clearly inferior to the point where it limits the throws Foles is willing and able to make.

The deep throws aren't really a problem because Foles makes up for what he lacks in arm strength with accuracy, timing and anticipation but I feel like he lacks zip on the intermediate stuff. Even Cassel I thought was throwing the intermediate stuff way better than Foles was.

Garcia didn't throw a great intermediate ball either, and he was 5 inches shorter than Foles, so no reason Foles can't have at least Garcia level success.
xsv
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Dec 21 2013, 08:28 AM) *
I feel like if you watch Romo and watch Foles, Foles arm is clearly inferior to the point where it limits the throws Foles is willing and able to make.

The deep throws aren't really a problem because Foles makes up for what he lacks in arm strength with accuracy, timing and anticipation but I feel like he lacks zip on the intermediate stuff. Even Cassel I thought was throwing the intermediate stuff way better than Foles was.

Garcia didn't throw a great intermediate ball either, and he was 5 inches shorter than Foles, so no reason Foles can't have at least Garcia level success.


I think his arm is fine. I don't think he's got a cannon, but I think his arm strength is comparable to Garcia, Montana, and Brad Johnson (earlier years). His arm is stronger than Chad Pennington, even before the shoulder problems.
Rick
Talk about looking for something to dislike! Regardless of his arm strength, obviously, it doesn't seem to matter. He's doing just fine with what he's got.
koolaidluke
Now Chad Pennington, that was a bad arm.

I agree Foles arm is good enough, but we haven't really seen somebody with his level of arm strength in a while. It's 2013 and Garcia's last good year was 2008.


I think this week the offense is going to focus on more intermediate stuff so maybe we'll get a better feel. I had just assumed that Foles was only going for bombs or screens because he couldn't hit those intermediate routes but I just realized it could just be that's all that was being called.
nephillymike
His arm is way better than Garcia's, not even close.

Not as good as Vick, or McNabb who I both would say had A+ arms.

Foles can make all the throws. I think sometimes he puts too more air under his throws which makes his arm look weaker than it is.


Let's got thru the top QB's in order (IMO)

Stronger than P. Manning
Not as strong as Brady
Stronger than Brees
Not as strong as Rodgers

So he has a stronger arm than two of the top four. That's good enough for me.


I heard the other day that he has the best passer rating ever in the first 14 starts of his career. E-V-E-R.

And it's not like he's check down Charlie.

Last year didn't we hear that he was the only rookie QB in history to throw for 240 yards per game and throw less than x % interceptions or something like that?

Cut him some slack.
JeeQ
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 21 2013, 02:46 PM) *
His arm is way better than Garcia's, not even close.

Not as good as Vick, or McNabb who I both would say had A+ arms.

Foles can make all the throws. I think sometimes he puts too more air under his throws which makes his arm look weaker than it is.


Let's got thru the top QB's in order (IMO)

Stronger than P. Manning
Not as strong as Brady
Stronger than Brees
Not as strong as Rodgers

So he has a stronger arm than two of the top four. That's good enough for me.


I heard the other day that he has the best passer rating ever in the first 14 starts of his career. E-V-E-R.

And it's not like he's check down Charlie.

Last year didn't we hear that he was the only rookie QB in history to throw for 240 yards per game and throw less than x % interceptions or something like that?

Cut him some slack.


If you cut both of Peyton's and Drew's arms off they'd still have a stronger arm than Foles
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 21 2013, 10:46 PM) *
His arm is way better than Garcia's, not even close.

Not as good as Vick, or McNabb who I both would say had A+ arms.

Foles can make all the throws. I think sometimes he puts too more air under his throws which makes his arm look weaker than it is.


Let's got thru the top QB's in order (IMO)

Stronger than P. Manning
Not as strong as Brady
Stronger than Brees
Not as strong as Rodgers

So he has a stronger arm than two of the top four. That's good enough for me.


I heard the other day that he has the best passer rating ever in the first 14 starts of his career. E-V-E-R.

And it's not like he's check down Charlie.

Last year didn't we hear that he was the only rookie QB in history to throw for 240 yards per game and throw less than x % interceptions or something like that?

Cut him some slack.

Foles' arm strikes me as very much like Bree's'. Both in terms of strength and accuracy. I'd give a slight edge to Foles on strength and a slight edge to Bree's in accuracy. But more alike than different.
TGryn
This is a sidenote to the main discussion, but during his time here I've seen Vick throw some deep passes so effortlessly with a flick of his arm that this old commercial, while manipulated, didn't look that far off the reality:

During the offseason we're going to face a decision what to do with Vick. He's scheduled to earn $12.5m + 3m bonus next year, so keeping him at that rate isn't going to happen. However, he's behaving exactly like you'd want a guy to act in his situation and seems to like the organization as well. I think they let him walk and test FA to see if a team will offer him starting $$$, but if not, he could well be back next year.
Dreagon
QUOTE (TGryn @ Dec 21 2013, 06:09 PM) *
During the offseason we're going to face a decision what to do with Vick. He's scheduled to earn $12.5m + 3m bonus next year, so keeping him at that rate isn't going to happen.


As deep as the QB position is in the draft next year, I can see you guys releasing Viick and waiting to see which QB falls to the second round for a draft bargain. Then if Foles continues to excel you've got backup covered, and if he goes into a slump then you already have another arm waiting in line.
Jax
LOL. WTF. Is this a joke? Stronger than Garcia? LMFAO..... this post must be a joke... limiting pass routes? Please...
Jax
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 21 2013, 06:06 PM) *
Foles' arm strikes me as very much like Bree's'. Both in terms of strength and accuracy. I'd give a slight edge to Foles on strength and a slight edge to Bree's in accuracy. But more alike than different.

Agree
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