Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: I think it's pretty clear that we need a safety
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
xsv
And probably a couple of them in the draft. And we need a couple of corners, too.

Enough of this talk about how much better the secondary is. Enough about how Allen is finally coming around. I know Wolff still isn't at full strength, but he might not be good enough either. And enough about Bradley Fletcher being the best cover guy on the team. The best cover guy on this team still sucks.

We need a safety with out first pick in the draft. And we need a corner on the first day. And then a safety and corner on the second day as well.

And why is it that no matter who we play, WRS are always WIDE OPEN on 15 yard outs? I mean, without a guy within 5 yards of them. Seemly every single time.
mcnabbulous
We shouldn't draft for need. Ever.

Our pass rush was awful yesterday, too. That didn't help.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (xsv @ Dec 16 2013, 08:59 AM) *
And probably a couple of them in the draft. And we need a couple of corners, too.

Enough of this talk about how much better the secondary is. Enough about how Allen is finally coming around. I know Wolff still isn't at full strength, but he might not be good enough either. And enough about Bradley Fletcher being the best cover guy on the team. The best cover guy on this team still sucks.

We need a safety with out first pick in the draft. And we need a corner on the first day. And then a safety and corner on the second day as well.

And why is it that no matter who we play, WRS are always WIDE OPEN on 15 yard outs? I mean, without a guy within 5 yards of them. Seemly every single time.


I will be mad if the secondary is not addressed in the offseason. I don't know what the safety prospects are this season, but the Eagles should certainly pick at least one now that QB won't be #1 need.

HobbEs
From what I understand this is not a good draft for Safety. We might have to look to FA to find one.
TGryn
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 16 2013, 07:14 AM) *
We shouldn't draft for need. Ever.

I think you can justifiably reach a bit for a position of need, but only in the lower rounds.

2011 is an example of what can happen when you draft to fill immediate needs - Watkins, Jarrett, etc. OTOH, 2012 was driven by the need to restock the DL and its turned out fairly well with Cox and Curry.
xsv
I don't think reaching is a good idea, but I certainly think addressing safety early in the draft is crucial.

I'd love to see 2 safeties and 2 corners out of this draft.

xsv
QUOTE (TGryn @ Dec 16 2013, 10:46 AM) *
I think you can justifiably reach a bit for a position of need, but only in the lower rounds.

2011 is an example of what can happen when you draft to fill immediate needs - Watkins, Jarrett, etc. OTOH, 2012 was driven by the need to restock the DL and its turned out fairly well with Cox and Curry.


Also on the other hand, we picked up Lito, Sheldon and M. Lewis, all with very early picks the year after we lost Bobby T. That worked out pretty well for us.
make_it_rain
This draft class doesn't appear too deep for safety, at least at the top.

As it stands now, theres really only one or two safeties in the draft that have a first round grade. Clinton-Dix from Alabama is, for now regarded as probably the top safety and he's only projected to go mid to late first round. There's probably four, maybe five corners that could go in the first round, however.

I think if Clinton-Dix is off the board by the time they draft then they have to look at corner, or potentially linebacker....CJ Mosley would be an upgrade over someone like Kendricks who is absolute garbage in coverage.

I'm still undecided about going after a safety in free agency. Jairus Byrd will be on the market, but will demand a big price tag, and it might not be worth it to tie up that much money on a safety with an injury risk when there's other players to resign.
There are some other decent safeties hitting FA though. TJ Ward and Chris Clemons would both be a nice upgrade, but then again, who wouldn't be?
Zero
Am I correct that Byrd WILL be a FA because he wants out and they can't tag him again? Won't the Eagles have like $20 kazillion to spend? They seem to like Wolff alot and I think a CB or two or a LB might be a bit of a help.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 16 2013, 01:55 PM) *
Am I correct that Byrd WILL be a FA because he wants out and they can't tag him again? Won't the Eagles have like $20 kazillion to spend? They seem to like Wolff alot and I think a CB or two or a LB might be a bit of a help.


Yeah, Byrd held out and wanted a longer deal but the Bills ended up just tagging him, so he'll be a FA after this season. Birds should be $19-20 million under the cap, so they have some money to play with, albeit with some decisions to make about players like Maclin, Cooper on the horizon as well.

The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of bringing in a safety via FA. Wolff would benefit having someone with experience to work with back there. I don't think Byrd is the right guy though. He'll want a ton of money, is an injury risk, and those deals don't always work out (ask Tampa if they got their money's worth with Dashon Goldson). TJ Ward would be a great option, though. Outstanding player, worked with Chip for a few years at Oregon, AND without the injury risk and baggage of Byrd. Sadly I don't think the Browns will let him walk.
Zero
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Dec 16 2013, 02:06 PM) *
Yeah, Byrd held out and wanted a longer deal but the Bills ended up just tagging him, so he'll be a FA after this season. Birds should be $19-20 million under the cap, so they have some money to play with, albeit with some decisions to make about players like Maclin, Cooper on the horizon as well.

The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of bringing in a safety via FA. Wolff would benefit having someone with experience to work with back there. I don't think Byrd is the right guy though. He'll want a ton of money, is an injury risk, and those deals don't always work out (ask Tampa if they got their money's worth with Dashon Goldson). TJ Ward would be a great option, though. Outstanding player, worked with Chip for a few years at Oregon, AND without the injury risk and baggage of Byrd. Sadly I don't think the Browns will let him walk.
How often has Byrd been injured? He also has the Oregon connection and has a good 3 - 4 years to play. What about his character? Would he be a good role mentor for Wolff?
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 16 2013, 08:56 PM) *
How often has Byrd been injured? He also has the Oregon connection and has a good 3 - 4 years to play. What about his character? Would he be a good role mentor for Wolff?


Ah yeah, forgot Byrd is an Oregon product as well. He missed 5 games in 2012 and I believe was out the first 5 games this season with a foot injury (plantar fascitis). I'm not too familiar with this injury, but I believe it has the potential to be a type of nagging injury. Could be wrong though. Maybe someone more informed than me can chime in on this one.

My bigger concern with Byrd isn't so much the injury risk. I think the bigger risk is the cost and his attitude. He openly stated that he wanted a huge deal in Buffalo, then pouted when he didn't get it and they franchised him. To give you an idea of what he would cost, he turned down a 5 year deal that would have made him the 3rd highest paid safety in the league. This guy wants to be one of the highest paid safeties in the league, if not the highest paid. I just don't think its worth it to tie up that much money in someone like that. Dashon Goldson has been a very expensive bust for the bucs, and I think that kind of money could be better spent elsewhere.

TJ Ward has graded out very well this year, doesn't have the diva attitude that Byrd has, and would likely be available for far less money, if the Browns let him hit the market.

Also, note that the Bills could theoretically hit Byrd with the franchise tag again, but would have to give him a 25% bump. Not sure that theyll do it, but its possible that Byrd doesnt hit FA as well.
nephillymike
When you still have 19 M of cap space left and we got fin Chung, S Phillips CB Williams, we just didn't do a good enough job in FA.

We just didn't.

Wolf is better than Chung and Allen, but he's the prettiest one at the ugly parade.

Sopoaga was a bust.

Barwin was a hit.

Still, too low of a batting average in FA.

Those DB's will not hold a good QB down.

We need to score 36 points in both of the next two games to win.
20dawk
I love this draft class for us. Players so far are slated to go exactly where we need them. First round we should be able to get a corner like roby from Ohio state, ifo from Oregon, purifoy or roberson from Florida, Justin Gilbert from ok state or kyle fuller from vt.

If we don't go that route and want an OLB a corner should be available in the second for us. Hell one of those guys might be. As for OLB kyle van noy is still a top prospect in my eyes. He could add some weight to his frame and most likely will. Cj Mosley could come in and play OLB or inside lb for us, moving kendricks outside. Right now kendricks is playing an OLB role , just from the inside, in coverage situations to make up for cole. If they do want to move kendricks outside than we could be looking at aj johnson from tenn to play next to Ryans or Christian jones, who is nasty, or Shane skov, who's no bum.

As for safety, the big name is obviously ha ha. But I can see him easily being a bust. He leads with his helmet a lot which u can't do anymore and his coverage skills are just average in my eyes. Size speed he has it but idk about natural football instincts. I could be wrong but I'm not 100 percent sold. Guys I like can be had later in the draft. Kurtis Drummond from michigan state has good size and speed and is a natural cover guy with good tackling. Kenny ladler from Vanderbilt is another guy with size and speed who can cover and isn't afraid to lay a hit.

I think this draft can be another good one for us, following last years and the year before. It is amazing what two good years of drafting can do, compared to two horrible ones.
Zero
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Dec 16 2013, 08:30 PM) *
Ah yeah, forgot Byrd is an Oregon product as well. He missed 5 games in 2012 and I believe was out the first 5 games this season with a foot injury (plantar fascitis). I'm not too familiar with this injury, but I believe it has the potential to be a type of nagging injury. Could be wrong though. Maybe someone more informed than me can chime in on this one.

My bigger concern with Byrd isn't so much the injury risk. I think the bigger risk is the cost and his attitude. He openly stated that he wanted a huge deal in Buffalo, then pouted when he didn't get it and they franchised him. To give you an idea of what he would cost, he turned down a 5 year deal that would have made him the 3rd highest paid safety in the league. This guy wants to be one of the highest paid safeties in the league, if not the highest paid. I just don't think its worth it to tie up that much money in someone like that. Dashon Goldson has been a very expensive bust for the bucs, and I think that kind of money could be better spent elsewhere.

TJ Ward has graded out very well this year, doesn't have the diva attitude that Byrd has, and would likely be available for far less money, if the Browns let him hit the market.

Also, note that the Bills could theoretically hit Byrd with the franchise tag again, but would have to give him a 25% bump. Not sure that theyll do it, but its possible that Byrd doesnt hit FA as well.
It's not that we need the top safety, a good to very good one will work. Experience to tutor a young guy is important, IMO. Don't forget they grabbed a diva in Samuel who played pretty well for a couple of years before going all ME on the team. I don't know enough about any of these guys to have a real opinion other than they need help. I also think Chip would have an idea about Byrd and I'll trust in how he feels there.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 16 2013, 08:38 PM) *
Those DB's will not hold a good QB down.

Very few DB's can do so without a pass rush. That was the difference this week compared to our run of success.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 17 2013, 10:59 AM) *
Very few DB's can do so without a pass rush. That was the difference this week compared to our run of success.


Very good point. I think the last few weeks or so the talent shortfall in the secondary was largely covered up by the pass rush getting the job done.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.