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nephillymike
Was reading Z's Wiliams link and stumbled across this


http://articles.philly.com/2013-12-09/spor...ovacare-complex
Jax
Good read. Thanks!
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 14 2013, 11:16 AM) *
Was reading Z's Wiliams link and stumbled across this


http://articles.philly.com/2013-12-09/spor...ovacare-complex

So, if you had the call today and had a choice between Foles or Wilson ... you're on the clock, who do you pick?
Rick
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 14 2013, 03:39 PM) *
So, if you had the call today and had a choice between Foles or Wilson ... you're on the clock, who do you pick?

Tough call at this point. Wilson has more of a track record (although not much more) and he has had better players around him.

However, he's also not very tall and we all know how 6' tall QBs seem to do around these parts. But I love his approach/preparation to the game and he seems to be a great leader. He's also played well in some pressure situations.

Foles has been lights out this season. He's playing with inferior players (at least on paper) but he's also showing quite a bit of leadership abilities. I can't comment on his approach/preparation to the game yet but it certainly seems to be alright. As players get better around him, I hope to see him improve even more. I absolutely LOVE his accuracy. That's something we've not had here for a looooooooooooong time.

It is a tough call to be sure. Seems like the guys in the front office also thought it was a tough call. I wonder what they would have done had Wilson been available when they picked.
mcnabbulous
Id take Wilson because he seems to have that rare combination of pocket presence and mobility, but it's hard to argue with the track record of 6'4+ QBs winning Super Bowls. I didn't read the posted link, because I'm drunk, but had seen several posts on the topics a few weeks ago. It sounds like Andy and Doug Pederson did will to identify Foles and find his strengths when everyone else just noticed his flaws.

Andy sucked.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2013, 03:47 AM) *
Id take Wilson because he seems to have that rare combination of pocket presence and mobility, but it's hard to argue with the track record of 6'4+ QBs winning Super Bowls. I didn't read the posted link, because I'm drunk, but had seen several posts on the topics a few weeks ago. It sounds like Andy and Doug Pederson did will to identify Foles and find his strengths when everyone else just noticed his flaws.

Andy sucked.

Wait a minute - I thought you were the lone voice saying that Reid was a good coach who should be nowhere near personnel matters when most of us said he was a good GM who should be nowhere near game day coaching? So was getting Foles luck or proof that Reid did have an eye for a player?

For what it's worth, I'm not surprised that Reid is doing well elsewhere but I will be very surprised if he wins the SuperBowl.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 15 2013, 05:10 AM) *
Wait a minute - I thought you were the lone voice saying that Reid was a good coach who should be nowhere near personnel matters when most of us
said he was a good GM who should be nowhere near game day coaching? So was getting Foles luck or proof that Reid did have an eye for a player?


He was. He's constantly proven wrong, and feels the need to grasp at any straw possible to justify his years of Reid-apologism, which is a mental disorder in and of itself.
Reid made several great picks (on offense), and several horrible ones. We can debate his prowess as GM all day. His gameday coaching was settled long ago as a topic
of debate, only deniers still exist.

As has always been stated by most of us, he's a good coach and will have a level of success everywhere he goes (especially when he picks a team with 6 all-pros, 4 on defense).
He will never win a Super Bowl.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 15 2013, 06:10 AM) *
Wait a minute - I thought you were the lone voice saying that Reid was a good coach who should be nowhere near personnel matters when most of us said he was a good GM who should be nowhere near game day coaching? So was getting Foles luck or proof that Reid did have an eye for a player?

For what it's worth, I'm not surprised that Reid is doing well elsewhere but I will be very surprised if he wins the SuperBowl.


Andy was good at identifying and developing QB talent. That's pretty well proven. Kolb is really the line blemish on that record and ultimately being wrong about that cost him his job.
Had Kolb developed into a star, Andy would still be our coach.
Getting Foles wasn't lucky. The whole organization deserves credit for seeing his skills.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 15 2013, 01:31 PM) *
As has always been stated by most of us, he's a good coach and will have a level of success everywhere he goes (especially when he picks a team with 6 all-pros, 4 on defense).
This is literally my entire argument. In fact, I'm the first person that made it.
QUOTE
He will never win a Super Bowl.


This is just stupid.
JYDPDX
Reid is doing the same as always in KC winning against shit teams and pulling up short against solid competition. Formula for not winning a SB.



1 Sun, Sep 8 @ Jaguars W 28-2 Smith (173) Charles (77) Sherman (44)
2 Sun, Sep 15 Cowboys W 17-16 Smith (223) Smith (57) Bowe (56)
3 Thu, Sep 19 @ Eagles W 26-16 Smith (273) Charles (92) Avery (141)
4 Sun, Sep 29 Giants W 31-7 Smith (288) Charles (65) McGrath (64)
5 Sun, Oct 6 @ Titans W 26-17 Smith (245) Charles (108) Avery (91)
6 Sun, Oct 13 Raiders W 24-7 Smith (128) Charles (78) Charles (50)
7 Sun, Oct 20 Texans W 17-16 Smith (240) Charles (86) McCluster (70)
8 Sun, Oct 27 Browns W 23-17 Smith (225) Charles (74) McCluster (67)
9 Sun, Nov 3 @ Bills W 23-13 Smith (124) Charles (90) Bowe (67)
10 BYE
11 Sun, Nov 17 @ Broncos L 17-27 Smith (230) Charles (78) Bowe (57)
12 Sun, Nov 24 Chargers L 38-41 Smith (294) Charles (115) Avery (91)
13 Sun, Dec 1 Broncos L 28-35 Smith (293) Charles (93) Bowe (56)
14 Sun, Dec 8 @ Redskins W 45-10 Smith (137) Charles (150) Bowe (70)
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JYDPDX @ Dec 15 2013, 02:34 PM) *
Reid is doing the same as always in KC winning against shit teams and pulling up short against solid competition. Formula for not winning a SB.


Precisely.
mcnabbulous
As opposed to our Eagles this year?

That's pretty much how it works. You consistently beat teams that are worse and lose to teams that are better. The Chiefs were 2-14 last year. I wouldn't expect them to bang up on the NFL elite.
Zero
The problem comes when Andy gets into a battle of game day wits. He's a smart man but not a quick thinker. I think he realizes that which is why he stubbornly sticks to a predetermined game plan and seems to rarely make quality adjustments during a game.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 16 2013, 12:49 PM) *
The problem comes when Andy gets into a battle of game day wits. He's a smart man but not a quick thinker. I think he realizes that which is why he stubbornly sticks to a predetermined game plan and seems to rarely make quality adjustments during a game.


He's 2-3 against .500 or better teams this year (us and the Cowboys of course). He's 9-0 against the Division I schedule he's had to face up to this point. That's our Andy.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 16 2013, 02:18 PM) *
He's 2-3 against .500 or better teams this year (us and the Cowboys of course). He's 9-0 against the Division I schedule he's had to face up to this point. That's our Andy.

And Chip is 3-4 against .500 or better teams this year (Packers with a 3rd string QB, Cardinals and Lions). He is 5-2 against the D1 schedule he's faced beyond that.

Maybe Chip is our Andy? Or maybe that's just how it works out. You know, beating bad teams and losing to good ones. Shocking that you can't grasp that concept.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 16 2013, 01:30 PM) *
And Chip is 3-4 against .500 or better teams this year (Packers with a 3rd string QB, Cardinals and Lions). He is 5-2 against the D1 schedule he's faced beyond that.

Maybe Chip is our Andy? Or maybe that's just how it works out. You know, beating bad teams and losing to good ones. Shocking that you can't grasp that concept.


laugh.gif

Trolling you is so much fun, and even more predictable than Andy's playcalling. You're the Charlie Brown to his Joe Schlabotnik.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 15 2013, 10:10 AM) *
I will be very surprised if he wins the SuperBowl.



QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 15 2013, 05:31 PM) *
He will never win a Super Bowl.



QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 15 2013, 06:09 PM) *
This is just stupid.


I'd say the first two opinions have far more evidence to support them than the blind optimism of the third post. Reid is the reigning Schottenheimer and not the next Walsh.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 16 2013, 02:18 PM) *
I'd say the first two opinions have far more evidence to support them than the blind optimism of the third post. Reid is the reigning Schottenheimer and not the next Walsh.

There is literally no evidence to support the fact that Reid will "never win a Superbowl."

On a completely different note, you act like calling a guy Schottenheimer is a bad thing. Marty is the only all-time great coach that never had the benefit of having a franchise QB.

I actually just came across this yesterday, which is breaks down Marty's greatness, IMO:
http://www.footballperspective.com/marty-s...back-struggles/

But you guys probably think Brian Billick is a better coach.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 16 2013, 02:42 PM) *
On a completely different note, you act like calling a guy Schottenheimer is a bad thing. Marty is the only all-time great coach that never had the benefit of having a franchise QB.


No, it's a compliment. After all, Marty did bring home a ring when his Virginia Destroyers bested the Las Vegas Locomotives in 2011. rolleyes.gif

To be honest, I think we had it easy under Reid as opposed to Chiefs and Chargers fans. Can you imagine going 13-3 twice, and 14-2, only to lose in your first playoff
game? My God, at least Andy let us sniff playoff victories. Then again even that's debatable, considering those crushing losses to the Broncos in the 80s.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 16 2013, 02:42 PM) *
There is literally no evidence to support the fact that Reid will "never win a Superbowl."

On a completely different note, you act like calling a guy Schottenheimer is a bad thing. Marty is the only all-time great coach that never had the benefit of having a franchise QB.

I actually just came across this yesterday, which is breaks down Marty's greatness, IMO:
http://www.footballperspective.com/marty-s...back-struggles/

But you guys probably think Brian Billick is a better coach.

How do explain the post season performance of this "all time great"? Let me guess, just bad luck?

As for the comparison between him and Billick....Billick won a SB with Trent Dilfer. For that alone he ranks higher than "Marty Choken-heimer"
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 16 2013, 09:58 PM) *
How do explain the post season performance of this "all time great"? Let me guess, just bad luck?

A little bit of that and a little bit of typically having QB disadvantages. How do you explain 200 career wins?

QUOTE
As for the comparison between him and Billick....Billick won a SB with Trent Dilfer. For that alone he ranks higher than "Marty Choken-heimer"

Yes, offensive guru Brian Billick, who rode the coat tails of a defense that gave up 6 ppg in the playoffs and hasn't been able to get a job since.

No, he doesn't rank higher than Marty.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
A little bit of that and a little bit of typically having QB disadvantages. How do you explain 200 career wins?


Maybe it has something to do with coaching for a quarter of a century? Even Jamie Moyer has 250 career wins.....

QUOTE
Yes, offensive guru Brian Billick, who rode the coat tails of a defense that gave up 6 ppg in the playoffs and
hasn't been able to get a job since.


Actually, he had no problem immediately getting a job as an analyst. As so often happens, he probably found getting paid
to stay in the warm booth and talk about football to be an appealing career change. If he coach for another 15 years he'd
have around 200 wins too, it's stupid to think he couldn't land a job tomorrow if he wanted.

QUOTE
No, he doesn't rank higher than Marty.


Yes, he clearly does. Above The Walrus too.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 17 2013, 10:24 AM) *
Maybe it has something to do with coaching for a quarter of a century? Even Jamie Moyer has 250 career wins.....

Yeah, that definitely explains his .613 winning percentage

QUOTE
Actually, he had no problem immediately getting a job as an analyst. As so often happens, he probably found getting paid
to stay in the warm booth and talk about football to be an appealing career change. If he coach for another 15 years he'd
have around 200 wins too, it's stupid to think he couldn't land a job tomorrow if he wanted.

LOLZ. Okay.

Matt (IN)

Coach Billick, I love your Coors spots. Are you content to write books and do TV work or do you still want to coach again?
Brian Billick (1:35 PM)

Once a coach, always a coach. There is certainly things that I miss about being involved in a team. At this stage of my career, I present a certain skill set that if it can be matched up with the right team and organization, it would be fun to get back into. Right now, the league seems to be in a cycle of looking for younger, if not unproven, head coaches. It might take a while for us to cycle into another phase.

QUOTE
Yes, he clearly does. Above The Walrus too.

I'd have a hard time arguing against this. It's pretty close though. I'd say they're comparable. Time will tell with Andy.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 17 2013, 10:30 AM) *
Yeah, that definitely explains his .613 winning percentage

what explains his playoff record (5-13 or .278 win %)?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 17 2013, 11:46 AM) *
what explains his playoff record (5-13 or .278 win %)?

I already said, a little bit of bad luck and typically being at a QB talent deficit.

Having a kicker miss 3 field goals and turning the ball over 4 times in a game you lose 10-7 is kind of what I have in mind. Even the great Steve Bono couldn't overcome that.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 17 2013, 10:55 AM) *
I already said, a little bit of bad luck and typically being at a QB talent deficit.

Having a kicker miss 3 field goals and turning the ball over 4 times in a game you lose 10-7 is kind of what I have in mind. Even the great Steve Bono couldn't overcome that.

To be clear, Schotty is not a horrible coach, by any standards. However, he is not an all-time great. It can be said that he was a very successful regular season coach over a long period of time.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 17 2013, 11:04 AM) *
To be clear, Schotty is not a horrible coach, by any standards. However, he is not an all-time great. It can be said that he was a very successful regular season coach over a long period of time.

There is no difference between being a regular season and post season coach. The only difference is that jackholes make a big deal out of one game that is impacted by countless variables.

John Elway didn't all of a sudden become a great postseason QB. He just got the pieces around him to help him win.

Brett Favre wasn't some clutch, postseason stud who suddenly forgot how to win when the stakes were raised.

Marty was a great coach who never won more than 32 games with the same QB. To put that in perspective, Belichick has won 163 games with Tom Brady as his QB. I wonder what happens to Belichick's greatness if Touchdown Tommy is taken out of the equation?
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 17 2013, 11:17 AM) *
There is no difference between being a regular season and post season coach.

I disagree completely. There is a great difference between regular season and post season coaching. Marty was a little too conservative in the post season, probably a result of the "one and done" nature of the playoffs.

QUOTE
Marty was a great coach who never won more than 32 games with the same QB. To put that in perspective, Belichick has won 163 games with Tom Brady as his QB. I wonder what happens to Belichick's greatness if Touchdown Tommy is taken out of the equation?

I wonder how Marty would have done if he didn't opt to go with Elvis Grbac instead of sticking with Rich Gannon....that was his coaching decision. In a simialr situation, Belichick chose to go with a young unproven Brady over the popular veteran Bledsoe...that was his coaching decision.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 17 2013, 11:17 AM) *
To put that in perspective, Belichick has won 163 games with Tom Brady as his QB. I wonder what happens to
Belichick's greatness if Touchdown Tommy is taken out of the equation?


Not much - he takes the hapless Matt Cassel and goes 11-5, freakishly missing a playoff spot. But that's ok, because only
the regular season matters anyway rolleyes.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 17 2013, 11:40 AM) *
Not much - he takes the hapless Matt Cassel and goes 11-5, freakishly missing a playoff spot. But that's ok, because only
the regular season matters anyway rolleyes.gif

It's pretty hard to say. Cassel did have a pretty successful season in KC when he threw 27 TD's and only 7 picks while going to the playoffs.

Belichick's career was a disaster up to the moment Brady took over as his starting QB. Including a 5-13 record in New England.

Funny, when I look at that 2008 New England team, you know who they couldn't beat? Indianapolis and Pittsburgh. I guess Belichick can't beat the top teams unless Brady is his QB, right?
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