Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Question for everybody
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Pages: 1, 2
samaroo
After the Dallas game, a lot of people were (justifiably) worried that Foles cracked under the pressure of the moment. That game was high pressure.

But this game was, too. It was Foles' first game after officially being named the starter for the season, it was against a good, playoff-contending, hot team at home, and it was to maintain a tie for the division.

And he played well. A few mistakes, and not his best game, but even if you give AZ the pick, his numbers were pretty good. There were a few times I thought he held the ball a little long, and had a few off-throws, but not a bad game by any stretch.

So...

Did this game answer any questions for you about Foles? If so, how and why? If not, how and why?
xsv
QUOTE (samaroo @ Dec 3 2013, 02:08 AM) *
After the Dallas game, a lot of people were (justifiably) worried that Foles cracked under the pressure of the moment. That game was high pressure.

But this game was, too. It was Foles' first game after officially being named the starter for the season, it was against a good, playoff-contending, hot team at home, and it was to maintain a tie for the division.

And he played well. A few mistakes, and not his best game, but even if you give AZ the pick, his numbers were pretty good. There were a few times I thought he held the ball a little long, and had a few off-throws, but not a bad game by any stretch.

So...

Did this game answer any questions for you about Foles? If so, how and why? If not, how and why?


I think it's a step in the right direction. I think he had some trouble in the 4th quarter, and you could see the pressure getting to him a little. But it was better. I think he showed us he can improve how he plays when under a tremendous amount of pressure.



Zero
I pretty much agree with X. He did well for a rookie and he improved in preseason and again when he's started. To me, that's the most important thing, consistent improvement. As in most all players, the coaching and the system are critical and I think Kelly is doing the right thing by him.

Obviously there are still questions, not the least of which is how he will perform in a playoff game when the intensity is ratcheted up. I think his intelligence and his demeanor make up for the less-than-outstanding talent. He seems capable of making quick decisions under pressure, most of which are good. He has adequate arm strength and is comfortable moving around in the pocket. His legs aren't Randallesque but he seems to have a good sense on when they are good enough to take advantage of the defense. He's accurate on most of his throws and will probably get better at that. From what I read and heard from reliable people on the radio, he still needs to be more consistent with his mechanics which may account for fugly games like Dallas.

No matter how you slice it, he's either a keeper or very valuable currency. For me, it's "keeper" unless the team falls into someone who is lights out better and I don't see that as very likely.
Jax
I think the game answered a few questions but the game was not on par with the Dallas game as far as pressure and big games go (and that coming from the Board's First bigtime Foles fan and vocal supporter since the day we selected him). I still think there was a bit of choke in the Dallas game but I am not concerned. That is totally normal for a player of his experience.

It looks like Nick will get another chance down in Big D with everything on the line. If he steps it up in that game, win or lose, then I will be very comfortable.
D Rock
Honestly, I'm a bit LESS confident in Foles after the az game.

A win is a win and all that. But to my eyes, I was seeing some of that Dallas variety Foles in waaaay too many passes.

The first td to ertz was under thrown. He should have put in towards back corner. He made ertz adjust towards goal line instead of end line.

Pass to avant was almost exactly like the would be td that Jason couldn't haul in vs Dallas. The terrible miss that Coop saved with the circus one handed catch and run was terrible. He made a number of incorrect reads by my eyes, and missed even more throws.

Again. A win is a win. But to my eyes, having only watched the game once . . . this was closer to Dallas Foles than Oakland Foles.

I'm still on board the Foles bandwagon. (I was first one on).

But this particular game does nothing to solidify my total confidence.
CT_Eagle
I am. I have been pushing for Foles to be the starter for the entire season. I like what I see from him so far. All young QBs have ups and downs. The ups and downs for Foles have been wildly dramatic. More so than for any other young QB I have ever seen. I have seen enough that I am comfortable with giving him more opportunities to play and hopefully improve on his weak performances. The remaining games against Det, Chi and Dallas will be good tests for Foles and the rest of the team.
Jax
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 3 2013, 10:41 AM) *
Honestly, I'm a bit LESS confident in Foles after the az game.

A win is a win and all that. But to my eyes, I was seeing some of that Dallas variety Foles in waaaay too many passes.

The first td to ertz was under thrown. He should have put in towards back corner. He made ertz adjust towards goal line instead of end line.

Pass to avant was almost exactly like the would be td that Jason couldn't haul in vs Dallas. The terrible miss that Coop saved with the circus one handed catch and run was terrible. He made a number of incorrect reads by my eyes, and missed even more throws.

Again. A win is a win. But to my eyes, having only watched the game once . . . this was closer to Dallas Foles than Oakland Foles.

I'm still on board the Foles bandwagon. (I was first one on).

But this particular game does nothing to solidify my total confidence.


I agree for the most part but at the same time we can't expect perfection. Even Brady and Manning make mistakes.
Jax
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 3 2013, 10:41 AM) *
I'm still on board the Foles bandwagon. (I was first one on).


Only if you were telling everyone during his senior year at Arizona that we had to draft him. tongue.gif laugh.gif

I have been on the wagon since we picked him. I saw last year his intangibles during his relief stint for Vick. I like his competitiveness and I think that can be a great leadership quality for him.
mcnabbulous
I think he played very well against an extremely good defense. This was the first time where the other team has really put the pressure on and it caused natural problems.

I've been generally convinced about him since the Packers game.

Every flaw of his is the type that generally gets better with experience. His decision making is spectacular for a second year player. That's something you can't teach. His accuracy on the intermediate stuff is something we haven't had. It allows our playmakers do actually make plays when the get the ball in their hands.
D Rock
Agreed with everything said. It was a good win against a legitimately good team. Nobody's gonna be perfect. Perhaps I've been spoiled by seeing some near perfection in his better games.
Rick
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 3 2013, 01:03 PM) *
Agreed with everything said. It was a good win against a legitimately good team. Nobody's gonna be perfect. Perhaps I've been spoiled by seeing some near perfection in his better games.

Good point. I caught myself falling down the slippery slope after a couple of bad passes the other day. He is still a 2nd year QB and he is still putting up solid/great numbers.

I'm liking this guy more every time I see him. I expect him to have a bad game eventually. He'll eventually throw an interception. He'll make mistakes. It's all part of the game.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2013, 01:20 PM) *
I'm liking this guy more every time I see him. I expect him to have a bad game eventually. He'll eventually throw an interception. He'll make mistakes. It's all part of the game.


He would probably shut any doubters up once and for all (in terms of granting him the 2014 year) if he can beat the Cowboys for the division title the last game of the year.
Eyrie
I was touting him as our starting QB this spring for reasons which are now apparent to everyone, but I won't claim to have backed him as a draft pick.

I remain confident that Foles will continue to run this offense at a high level. He had a couple of wobbles on Sunday as has been pointed out, but then what QB doesn't?
JeeQ
Dallas was the game that instilled my doubt; Dallas is the game that can instill my confidence.
Phits
I'm fully aboard the Foles train. I can't say I was confident with him going into the season, but I have come around.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 3 2013, 02:34 PM) *
He would probably shut any doubters up once and for all (in terms of granting him the 2014 year) if he can beat the Cowboys for the division title the last game of the year.


While I agree with is, I don't think the team really has a choice at this point about granting him the 2014 year, even if he can't get it done for a division title.

7 wins, 5-1 record as a starter....that ship has already sailed. We're well past the point of no return in terms of drafting a QB. Foles might have some people still tentative or doubting him, but at the least he's proven that he's "good enough" for next season to allow the team to address more pressing needs in the draft.

Even if they decided they wanted to try to move up, it simply won't be possible from where they'll likely be drafting, unless maybe Chip wants to take a flyer on someone, which would be pretty questionable imo with with Foles has done. Forget about trading up too. Ask the Redskins how much theyre missing those draft picks now.
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 3 2013, 01:34 PM) *
He would probably shut any doubters up once and for all (in terms of granting him the 2014 year) if he can beat the Cowboys for the division title the last game of the year.

And if that game means nothing? What I mean is, let's say we win out and Dallas loses a game (or two)? So you're saying you still couldn't back him?
Rick
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 3 2013, 02:09 PM) *
Dallas was the game that instilled my doubt; Dallas is the game that can instill my confidence.

Makes total sense to base your opinion of him (up to this point) on one bad game when he's had 5 good to great games and played relatively (meaning, he wasn't in a very good situation) well last season on a really bad team as a rookie.

:::scratching head::::
Reality Fan
Well....I am not one of the "I always thought he was good" guys....I really did not want him and did not like him. I have been converted. He had a very good game against a very good defense that was feeling very good about themselves. The drive to start the 3rd was terrific and he only looked poor after Kelly did his now typical :slow down and let the other team back in the game" routine.

I am not sure why the Dallas game is such a sticking point for some....he was clearly goofy from the first hit early and that is what probably was the cause for his concussion. He makes few bad decisions and knows where he is going with the ball very well. He is now proven to be a hard worker and a great student with no ego......hard not to love the guy.



He appears to be one of those guys that gets better in his mid 20's....and remember...I did not want any part of him......hard to believe his transformation.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Dec 3 2013, 03:38 PM) *
7 wins, 5-1 record as a starter....that ship has already sailed. We're well past the point of no return in terms of drafting a QB.


Yeah, I agree. However, the amount of people who still don't back him seems odd to me. He's done more than enough to deserve a chance at a full year, and this year ain't over yet.....
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
And if that game means nothing?


It will. The Dallas game is destined to determine the division title - if I'm wrong and we already have it, great!

QUOTE
So you're saying you still couldn't back him?


I DO back him, and have for weeks now. I'm saying many Eagles fans are still holding out for the hope we mortgage our franchise for one of the studs coming out of next year's draft. Screw those QBs, let's beef up our skill positions and come back with a better team and a more mature Foles next year.
mcnabbulous
Fwiw, Football Outsiders has us ranked as the best team in football since week 9, when Foles came back from his concussion. We are 9th overall by their standard.

They had us 21 from week 1-8.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-rati...13-dvoa-ratings
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 3 2013, 07:59 PM) *
I DO back him, and have for weeks now. I'm saying many Eagles fans are still holding out for the hope we mortgage our franchise for one of the studs coming out of next year's draft. Screw those QBs, let's beef up our skill positions and come back with a better team and a more mature Foles next year.

Can't disagree here. I have no problem with drafting someone but not going big to get one of the top guys. Our pick is going to be low so we'd have to give up way too much--especially when we have a guy who seems to be able to play well. I have a feeling Vick will leave if someone promises him a starting role so he wouldn't be around to be the backup. I don't want Barkley as our backup, I just don't see it in him. So we'll need to either draft someone or pick up someone along the way.

That is, of course, as long as Foles continues to perform well and, at this point, I have little reason to believe he won't.
mcnabbulous
There is absolutely no point in considering a QB in the first half of the draft this year. Mariota electing to stay in school is going to push everyone up a spot.

Foles has earned our trust. At this point, only some epic collapse would warrant losing it. Our primary focus should be defensive playmakers.
Jax
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 3 2013, 07:09 PM) *
He appears to be one of those guys that gets better in his mid 20's....and remember...I did not want any part of him......hard to believe his transformation.

As if that is being a late bloomer and somewhat uncommon?? He is a second year player...
Zero
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 3 2013, 11:41 AM) *
(I was first one on)

Not. But nice try. biggrin.gif
Bocadelphia Eagles John
Foles ?

For a guy who is a YOUNG Eagle and has his number deservedly hanging in the HOF, is approaching the kind of records held by so so people like Peyton Manning, has won as many games as he has already, with great use of several TE's every WR and everybody out of the backfield I'd say he is doing just barely a-ok.

ARE YOU SHITTIN' ME ???? The kid's off the charts GREAT ... were YOU ever that good in your start in YOUR career ? I know I was pretty friggen good, but I was not GREAT. HE's GREAT.

Give me a fuckin' break already .... no shit.
Jax
QUOTE (Bocadelphia Eagles John @ Dec 3 2013, 10:31 PM) *
Foles ?

For a guy who is a YOUNG Eagle and has his number deservedly hanging in the HOF, is approaching the kind of records held by so so people like Peyton Manning, has won as many games as he has already, with great use of several TE's every WR and everybody out of the backfield I'd say he is doing just barely a-ok.

ARE YOU SHITTIN' ME ???? The kid's off the charts GREAT ... were YOU ever that good in your start in YOUR career ? I know I was pretty friggen good, but I was not GREAT. HE's GREAT.

Give me a fuckin' break already .... no shit.

I will be in West Palm for a week beginning Friday if you want to grab beers one night.
SpudDogg
I live in Boca Raton. I'm game for beers biggrin.gif
Jax
QUOTE (SpudDogg @ Dec 3 2013, 11:29 PM) *
I live in Boca Raton. I'm game for beers biggrin.gif

Fo Sho! I should be done with work most days by dinner time. I can drive south from PGA National and perhaps meet somewhere in between like Boynton? Unfortunatly I will probably be wrking during the Eagles/Lions game unless there is a huge South Florida rainstorm or something.
Rick
QUOTE (Jax @ Dec 3 2013, 11:20 PM) *
I will be in West Palm for a week beginning Friday if you want to grab beers one night.

We still have to get together up this way. smile.gif
Jax
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 4 2013, 10:30 AM) *
We still have to get together up this way. smile.gif

Absolutely. maybe the following game vs minny
Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE (SpudDogg @ Dec 3 2013, 11:29 PM) *
I live in Boca Raton. I'm game for beers biggrin.gif


Terrific. Give me a call 954-609-7143

GO BIRDS !
Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE (Jax @ Dec 3 2013, 11:20 PM) *
I will be in West Palm for a week beginning Friday if you want to grab beers one night.


Terrific Jax .. give me a call 954-609-7143

GO BIRDS !
JeeQ
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2013, 02:43 PM) *
Makes total sense to base your opinion of him (up to this point) on one bad game when he's had 5 good to great games and played relatively (meaning, he wasn't in a very good situation) well last season on a really bad team as a rookie.

:::scratching head::::


It's far more than the Dallas game but I've grown tired of spouting off my list of reasons. I just thought I'd keep it simple for once. But in an effort to keep things fresh (and since I'm bored at work) I'll start with a quote from Russell Wilson after he dismantled the New Orleans Saints on Monday "If you want to be a truly great QB it takes three things, being consistent, being clutch, and being dominant."

Consistency he really hasn't had a chance to show, but he has that chance now. Four games to go and I'm not demanding perfection, merely consistency. I know a lot of members of the Foles Wagon like to sweep last season, training camp, and the preseason under the rug, but I don't. If Foles was playing as well as he is now he would've taken the job away during the myriad of opportunities to show what he had before. The most telling is the fact we felt the need to not only bring Vick back, but make him the starter at the beginning of the season.

As far as being clutch he hasn't shown me anything there. Dallas was a big game for us, and he played abysmally. In the last two games during the second half he hasn't been able to put a team away. No scoring in the 4th QTR is a big concern for me and if we had been playing better teams we would've paid the price twice for that. I won't put all the blame on Foles for that, but great QBs live for the 4th QTR. When QB's like Manning and Brady take the field in the 4th QTR the opposition is terrified.

As for being dominant he showed that versus the Raiders (who doesn't?), but hasn't against any other team thus far. This directly ties into the clutch/4th QTR factor in my opinion. If Foles could extend his first half performances into the second we'd be wiping the floor with teams. Is it Chip's play-calling? Or is it halftime adjustments by our opponents taking Foles out of the game? We'll have to wait and see.

Right now I view Foles as a talented QB with a hot hand right now a la 2011 Michael Vick. Vick had such a hot hand that season it garnered a $100 million contract the next year. But we all know what happened immediately after that. Foles is making the most of his NFL honeymoon period. Defenses haven't figured him out yet just like RGIII/Kaepernick & The Pistol Offense last season. Once he is figured out (and he will be) then we'll see what type of QB Foles really is. Until then my seat on the wagon is reserved but not filled yet.
Phits
JeeQ, it's time to eat crow. Foles is one of the primary reasons that we are in the playoff hunt. That alone is reason enough to cheer for him. Consider that Vick was having a good season before he went down. Foles is having a great season and is on a record setting pace:

QUOTE
Foles is one TD from tying Peyton Manning’s record for 20 TDs without an interception to start a season. In addition, if the season ended today, Foles would set a record for most TDs without an interception in a season. The current mark is held by Steve Young who had 10 TDs and no interceptions in 1987. He started three games in ’87 subbing for Joe Montana, winning two of those three contests. Two other QBs, Charlie Batch and Todd Collins, finished a season with five TDs and no interceptions.

Foles threw two interceptions in his first NFL start, last November against the Redskins. Since then he’s thrown 383 passes with 23 touchdowns and two interceptions.


It's OK to admit you're mistaken. There are a great many of us that felt the way you do, but it is time to stop grasping at straws. Foles hasn't had an opportunity to do anything that you are comparing him to. It' not his fault that he keeps winning, keeps making sound decisions and has given us more reason to cheer this season. He is just taking it as it comes and learning as he goes along. Can't ask for much more than that.


QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 4 2013, 02:45 PM) *
It's far more than the Dallas game but I've grown tired of spouting off my list of reasons. I just thought I'd keep it simple for once. But in an effort to keep things fresh (and since I'm bored at work) I'll start with a quote from Russell Wilson after he dismantled the New Orleans Saints on Monday "If you want to be a truly great QB it takes three things, being consistent, being clutch, and being dominant."

Consistency he really hasn't had a chance to show, but he has that chance now. Four games to go and I'm not demanding perfection, merely consistency. I know a lot of members of the Foles Wagon like to sweep last season, training camp, and the preseason under the rug, but I don't. If Foles was playing as well as he is now he would've taken the job away during the myriad of opportunities to show what he had before. The most telling is the fact we felt the need to not only bring Vick back, but make him the starter at the beginning of the season.

As far as being clutch he hasn't shown me anything there. Dallas was a big game for us, and he played abysmally. In the last two games during the second half he hasn't been able to put a team away. No scoring in the 4th QTR is a big concern for me and if we had been playing better teams we would've paid the price twice for that. I won't put all the blame on Foles for that, but great QBs live for the 4th QTR. When QB's like Manning and Brady take the field in the 4th QTR the opposition is terrified.

As for being dominant he showed that versus the Raiders (who doesn't?), but hasn't against any other team thus far. This directly ties into the clutch/4th QTR factor in my opinion. If Foles could extend his first half performances into the second we'd be wiping the floor with teams. Is it Chip's play-calling? Or is it halftime adjustments by our opponents taking Foles out of the game? We'll have to wait and see.

Right now I view Foles as a talented QB with a hot hand right now a la 2011 Michael Vick. Vick had such a hot hand that season it garnered a $100 million contract the next year. But we all know what happened immediately after that. Foles is making the most of his NFL honeymoon period. Defenses haven't figured him out yet just like RGIII/Kaepernick & The Pistol Offense last season. Once he is figured out (and he will be) then we'll see what type of QB Foles really is. Until then my seat on the wagon is reserved but not filled yet.

JeeQ
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 4 2013, 04:17 PM) *
JeeQ, it's time to eat crow. Foles is one of the primary reasons that we are in the playoff hunt. That alone is reason enough to cheer for him. Consider that Vick was having a good season before he went down. Foles is having a great season and is on a record setting pace:

It's OK to admit you're mistaken. There are a great many of us that felt the way you do, but it is time to stop grasping at straws. Foles hasn't had an opportunity to do anything that you are comparing him to. It' not his fault that he keeps winning, keeps making sound decisions and has given us more reason to cheer this season. He is just taking it as it comes and learning as he goes along. Can't ask for much more than that.


Trust me when I say there's nothing I'd like to do more than eat crow after Foles leads us to the playoffs. I've never wanted to be more wrong about a QB ever in my life. I hope he comes out, wins the next four, and demolishes Dallas. I hope he goes on to set multiple records and carries us all the way to the Super Bowl. I'll even go out and buy a Foles jersey for every day of the week.

But... so far he hasn't done anything outside put up some flashy (though amazing) numbers. If he threw for 10,000 yards, 100 TDs, and failed to make the playoffs that's a failed season in my opinion. All that means is statistically you're the most talented loser in the league. You compare his stats to Steve Young and Joe Montana but those guys had more then just stats, they have multiple Super Bowl rings on their fingers. I couldn't tell you one of Trent Dilfer's stats right now, but everyone knows he has a Super Bowl ring.

Also I could ask for a lot more from Foles, like four more wins, a division title, a conference championship, a Super Bowl... but I'll gladly settle for a playoff spot at this point. Which I don't think is being unrealistic or outside the realm of possibility as RGIII pulled off the exact same feat last year as a rookie. The Redskins were 3-6 last season before rattling off 7 wins in a row to take the division.

Let me make it clear I have no dislike for Foles. I cheer for him every Sunday because I love the Eagles, and he's our QB. I'll support any player with the Eagles logo on the front if he's making our team better. I'm just not ready to give him the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning level of crowning before he's even had his first post-season appearance.
Phits
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 4 2013, 07:55 PM) *
Trust me when I say there's nothing I'd like to do more than eat crow after Foles leads us to the playoffs. I've never wanted to be more wrong about a QB ever in my life. I hope he comes out, wins the next four, and demolishes Dallas. I hope he goes on to set multiple records and carries us all the way to the Super Bowl. I'll even go out and buy a Foles jersey for every day of the week.

But... so far he hasn't done anything outside put up some flashy (though amazing) numbers. If he threw for 10,000 yards, 100 TDs, and failed to make the playoffs that's a failed season in my opinion. All that means is statistically you're the most talented loser in the league. You compare his stats to Steve Young and Joe Montana but those guys had more then just stats, they have multiple Super Bowl rings on their fingers. I couldn't tell you one of Trent Dilfer's stats right now, but everyone knows he has a Super Bowl ring.


Only time will tell whether the league figures him out next season. At present time he is still the hottest QB in the league and that will last until he's not. If he put up those kind of gaudy stats and failed to make the post season, there would be something else wrong with the team, don't you think? Our defense still needs work, so laying the blame at Foles feet is unreasonable. Especially considering he wasn't even slated as the starter at the beginning of the season.

QUOTE
Also I could ask for a lot more from Foles, like four more wins, a division title, a conference championship, a Super Bowl... but I'll gladly settle for a playoff spot at this point. Which I don't think is being unrealistic or outside the realm of possibility as RGIII pulled off the exact same feat last year as a rookie. The Redskins were 3-6 last season before rattling off 7 wins in a row to take the division.

Heading into this season did you really expect us to be in playoff contention, much less a division title? The ChipFoles connection has already exceeded most reasonable expectations.

QUOTE
Let me make it clear I have no dislike for Foles. I cheer for him every Sunday because I love the Eagles, and he's our QB. I'll support any player with the Eagles logo on the front if he's making our team better. I'm just not ready to give him the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning level of crowning before he's even had his first post-season appearance.

Brady/Manning? You're already comparing him to 2 of the best QB's in the history of the game, no wonder he comes up short.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 4 2013, 08:35 PM) *
If he put up those kind of gaudy numbers and failed to make the post season, wouldn't there be something else wrong with the team?

Especially because he inherited a team that was 1-3 to start the season and lost another game that he didn't start.

If we don't make the playoffs, it's most definitely not because of Nick Foles. If we do make the playoffs, it's almost entirely because of him.
nephillymike
My opinion history on Foles is varied to say the least.

When we drafted him, I didn't hate it but didn't love it either. If I remember correctly, we picked him higher than most thought he should be picked.

At the end of last year, he impressed me with what he could do with all those injuries. In comparing his perfromance last year vs. Vick who had a healtheir supporting cast, I thought Foles could give Vick a good run in a fair competition, assuming a west coast type offense.

Then we hired Chip. Then I thought Foles had no place in his offense, with his lack of speed.

Then Chip said that quick accurate decisions and throws were most important. I thought that if that was true, then Foles has a shot, but I thought Chip was full of shit in downplaying his love for a running QB.

Then we drafted Barkley. Then I realized I was full of shit and Chip acted on what he said he would do b/c nobody would accuse Barkley of being a "Chip" type QB.

Then I welcomed with open arms the open QB competiton. All I wanted was the best guyu to win and Vick needed his feet held to the fire.

Vick played really well in the preseason and Foles played poorly. He looked out of sinc with this style offense. Vick won the job going away.

Vick got hurt and I thought we were done. Nothing that Foles did up thru preseason in this offense gave me any confidence in him as the starter here.

Foles played well and I was warming up to him, then the Dallas debacle hit and my confidence in him was at an all time low.

He comes back from that game and lights it up since then,. demonstrating the best QB performance in the league and the best we have ever seen.

His demeanor, improvement, and accuracy is unbelievable. He put up 112 rating and many were diappointed for Chrissakes. And this is against a defense that totally dismantled the super star poster child for franchise QB draft picks, Andrew Luck. and they did the same to poster child before him, Cam Newton, but our guy gets a 112 in a win, and some are not convinced.

I love having him as our QB. I say this knowing that the odds are against us to make the playoffs and sadly knowing that if/when we don't make it at 10-6 or 9-7, people will say it was because of Foles, when he is the reason we even have a shot.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 4 2013, 05:35 PM) *
Only time will tell whether the league figures him out next season. At present time he is still the hottest QB in the league and that will last until he's not. If he put up those kind of gaudy stats and failed to make the post season, there would be something else wrong with the team, don't you think? Our defense still needs work, so laying the blame at Foles feet is unreasonable. Especially considering he wasn't even slated as the starter at the beginning of the season.

Heading into this season did you really expect us to be in playoff contention, much less a division title? The ChipFoles connection has already exceeded most reasonable expectations.

Brady/Manning? You're already comparing him to 2 of the best QB's in the history of the game, no wonder he comes up short.


QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2013, 05:37 PM) *
Especially because he inherited a team that was 1-3 to start the season and lost another game that he didn't start.

If we don't make the playoffs, it's most definitely not because of Nick Foles. If we do make the playoffs, it's almost entirely because of him.


You want it both ways, but you can't have it both ways...

"Foles has the hottest hand in the league. Foles is having the best statistical season ever for a QB. He's chasing Joe Montana and Steve Young in the record books... but if Foles can't find a way to make the playoffs it's definitely not his fault... but if we do then it's entirely because of him."

Say what? So if we lose it's the rest of the team's fault, but if we win it's all because of Foles? We better let our Top 3 RB, Top 10 WR, and #1 O-Line know that their contributions to the team have been meaningless this season.

If Denver fails in the playoffs, they're going to blame Peyton Manning. If the Patriots fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Tom Brady. If the Saints fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Drew Brees. If Dallas fails to make the playoffs (please football gods) you know damn well they're blaming Romo. Heaven forbid Foles lose to Dallas again with playoff implications on the line; you'll see how quickly his impressive stats become meaningless.

Laying all the blame on Foles would be unreasonable; making him take part of the blame is more than reasonable. Don't think it's fair, don't be the QB. The QB is blessed (or cursed) to be a position to will a football team to a win with his play alone. We've seen all the greats do it; several times this season alone. I'm currently on pins and needles waiting to see how Foles reacts when he finally has his "moment". I pray that he's every bit as good as we hope he is.

He would be far from the first QB to succeed in circumstances such as this. In fact just recently as last season a QB by the name of Alex Smith went down and their backup QB took them all the way to the Super Bowl. Also a third round QB by the name of Russell Wilson was drafted with no intentions of being a starter and is one win away from having the highest winning % of any QB through his first two seasons. Also as I mentioned previously RGIII took the 3-6 Redskins (that's worse than 1-3 by the way) to 10-6 and won the division.

To be completely honest I did expect us to make the playoffs. Because this is the NFL, and everything happens. The two-win Chiefs are locked into the playoffs with a chance for the best record in the AFC while last season's Super Bowl champions are struggling to make the playoffs. As I've always said if you don't think you can win the Super Bowl every season why even be a fan? Isn't one of the reasons you watch the games because you think there's always a chance they can win it?

Lastly I only brought up the Brady/Manning comparison because it was originally touted by members of this very board. I would never dream of mentioning Foles in the same breath as those two but they were determined to make the comparison. They even showed me why according to stats Foles >>> Brady/Manning this season. Can't argue with numbers.
xsv
Wow, JeeQ,

You must *really* dislike Mike Vick then. He is the epitome of a flashy qb that never took his team anywhere.

Yeah, the QB is going to get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses, and I think everyone here agrees with and understands that.

But he's 6-2, with a team that arguably isn't good enough to have that good of a record. Were your expectations to play better than that? I don't think they were.

What was your preseason expectations with Vick as the QB for the season? Is Foles doing better, worse or that same as that, so far?


QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 5 2013, 12:28 AM) *
You want it both ways, but you can't have it both ways...

"Foles has the hottest hand in the league. Foles is having the best statistical season ever for a QB. He's chasing Joe Montana and Steve Young in the record books... but if Foles can't find a way to make the playoffs it's definitely not his fault... but if we do then it's entirely because of him."

Say what? So if we lose it's the rest of the team's fault, but if we win it's all because of Foles? We better let our Top 3 RB, Top 10 WR, and #1 O-Line know that their contributions to the team have been meaningless this season.

If Denver fails in the playoffs, they're going to blame Peyton Manning. If the Patriots fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Tom Brady. If the Saints fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Drew Brees. If Dallas fails to make the playoffs (please football gods) you know damn well they're blaming Romo. Heaven forbid Foles lose to Dallas again with playoff implications on the line; you'll see how quickly his impressive stats become meaningless.

Laying all the blame on Foles would be unreasonable; making him take part of the blame is more than reasonable. Don't think it's fair, don't be the QB. The QB is blessed (or cursed) to be a position to will a football team to a win with his play alone. We've seen all the greats do it; several times this season alone. I'm currently on pins and needles waiting to see how Foles reacts when he finally has his "moment". I pray that he's every bit as good as we hope he is.

He would be far from the first QB to succeed in circumstances such as this. In fact just recently as last season a QB by the name of Alex Smith went down and their backup QB took them all the way to the Super Bowl. Also a third round QB by the name of Russell Wilson was drafted with no intentions of being a starter and is one win away from having the highest winning % of any QB through his first two seasons. Also as I mentioned previously RGIII took the 3-6 Redskins (that's worse than 1-3 by the way) to 10-6 and won the division.

To be completely honest I did expect us to make the playoffs. Because this is the NFL, and everything happens. The two-win Chiefs are locked into the playoffs with a chance for the best record in the AFC while last season's Super Bowl champions are struggling to make the playoffs. As I've always said if you don't think you can win the Super Bowl every season why even be a fan? Isn't one of the reasons you watch the games because you think there's always a chance they can win it?

Lastly I only brought up the Brady/Manning comparison because it was originally touted by members of this very board. I would never dream of mentioning Foles in the same breath as those two but they were determined to make the comparison. They even showed me why according to stats Foles >>> Brady/Manning this season. Can't argue with numbers.
JeeQ
QUOTE (xsv @ Dec 5 2013, 05:02 AM) *
Wow, JeeQ,

You must *really* dislike Mike Vick then. He is the epitome of a flashy qb that never took his team anywhere.

Yeah, the QB is going to get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses, and I think everyone here agrees with and understands that.

But he's 6-2, with a team that arguably isn't good enough to have that good of a record. Were your expectations to play better than that? I don't think they were.

What was your preseason expectations with Vick as the QB for the season? Is Foles doing better, worse or that same as that, so far?


I don't dislike Vick, but I did want him benched the second he went down with his second injury of the season. He looked amazing in 2011 when he took us to the playoffs, but since then he's been dismal and injury-ridden. Our team can't be successful if he can't complete an entire season. My comment many times during preseason is how sad it was that none of the QBs in camp could surpass our injury prone turnover machine of a QB. But before all this Vick had already shown his flashy stats could also produce wins and trips to the playoffs as he had already been to an NFC Conference Championship game.

I think we are a good enough team to have that record given that we play in the weakest division in football and had lucky breaks on the schedule (winless Giants, winless Tampa, 3rd string QB in Green Bay, the Raiders, cellar dwelling Redskins). It took until four weeks left into the season for us to have our first victory over a team with a winning record. Our tough games don't start until now.

My preseason expectations were the same no matter who the QB was. Playoffs, every time, every season. I don't care who's on the team, who's coaching it, my expectations are the playoffs. I've watched teams in far worse positions than us (Kansas City Chiefs anyone?) turn around and become playoff teams over the break. I fully believe Chip was capable of this and so far he's proving it.

Foles is on pace to take us to the playoffs so I couldn't be happier with his performance so far. All I'm asking is for the job to be finished. All his stats won't mean anything if we fail to make the playoffs. Plus the position of best QB to always fail to make the playoffs has been firmly held by Tony Romo for years now and I'd like for him to keep his title.
xsv
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 5 2013, 01:14 PM) *
Foles is on pace to take us to the playoffs so I couldn't be happier with his performance so far. All I'm asking is for the job to be finished. All his stats won't mean anything if we fail to make the playoffs. Plus the position of best QB to always fail to make the playoffs has been firmly held by Tony Romo for years now and I'd like for him to keep his title.


So, you don't believe in forecasting? You must hate meteorologists.
Phits
QUOTE
I've watched teams in far worse positions than us (Kansas City Chiefs anyone?) turn around and become playoff teams over the break.

KC was slated to have a big turn around this season, as they severely underachieved last season. That wasn't the case for us. As it turns out we were a badly coached team as well as short of talent.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 5 2013, 01:37 AM) *
Especially because he inherited a team that was 1-3 to start the season and lost another game that he didn't start.

If we don't make the playoffs, it's most definitely not because of Nick Foles. If we do make the playoffs, it's almost entirely because of him.

pretty much.
Rick
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 4 2013, 02:45 PM) *
It's far more than the Dallas game but I've grown tired of spouting off my list of reasons. I just thought I'd keep it simple for once. But in an effort to keep things fresh (and since I'm bored at work) I'll start with a quote from Russell Wilson after he dismantled the New Orleans Saints on Monday "If you want to be a truly great QB it takes three things, being consistent, being clutch, and being dominant."

Consistency he really hasn't had a chance to show, but he has that chance now. Four games to go and I'm not demanding perfection, merely consistency. I know a lot of members of the Foles Wagon like to sweep last season, training camp, and the preseason under the rug, but I don't. If Foles was playing as well as he is now he would've taken the job away during the myriad of opportunities to show what he had before. The most telling is the fact we felt the need to not only bring Vick back, but make him the starter at the beginning of the season.

As far as being clutch he hasn't shown me anything there. Dallas was a big game for us, and he played abysmally. In the last two games during the second half he hasn't been able to put a team away. No scoring in the 4th QTR is a big concern for me and if we had been playing better teams we would've paid the price twice for that. I won't put all the blame on Foles for that, but great QBs live for the 4th QTR. When QB's like Manning and Brady take the field in the 4th QTR the opposition is terrified.

As for being dominant he showed that versus the Raiders (who doesn't?), but hasn't against any other team thus far. This directly ties into the clutch/4th QTR factor in my opinion. If Foles could extend his first half performances into the second we'd be wiping the floor with teams. Is it Chip's play-calling? Or is it halftime adjustments by our opponents taking Foles out of the game? We'll have to wait and see.

Right now I view Foles as a talented QB with a hot hand right now a la 2011 Michael Vick. Vick had such a hot hand that season it garnered a $100 million contract the next year. But we all know what happened immediately after that. Foles is making the most of his NFL honeymoon period. Defenses haven't figured him out yet just like RGIII/Kaepernick & The Pistol Offense last season. Once he is figured out (and he will be) then we'll see what type of QB Foles really is. Until then my seat on the wagon is reserved but not filled yet.

Some people just are never happy.

First of all, nobody is forgetting about his preseason. It was actually pretty good. Considering he was a FRIGGIN ROOKIE last year, he didn't do badly then either. So Not sure what you're talking about there.

I've said it before, you can't penalize someone for something they've not had a chance to do. Foles hasn't been playing long enough to talk about his consistency on a long-term basis. However, other than the Dallas game, he's been pretty friggin consistent.

As far as the Dallas game, which some of you seem so hung up on, I'm pretty sure, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc. have had a bad game or two in their careers. Can we get off that game already? I mean, on one hand, you talk about this game as being such a big deal, then you say his lights out performance against the Raiders should be thrown out. You can't have it both ways.

As far as his 2nd half not being good. I'm guessing you are missing the whole Chip pulling back on the reins thing that's been going on.

Nobody is saying he's a HOFer or anything like that. He has been a VERY good QB so far. I really don't know why you--and others--can't just accept that without some, "but he sucked against Dallas," or, "he hasn't come from behind in a game," or some other stupid reason he's not as good as he seems to be.

Will he shit the bed at some point? I have no idea. Time will tell. But, for now, he's a very good QB showing some very good tendancies.
Rick
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 4 2013, 07:55 PM) *
Trust me when I say there's nothing I'd like to do more than eat crow after Foles leads us to the playoffs. I've never wanted to be more wrong about a QB ever in my life. I hope he comes out, wins the next four, and demolishes Dallas. I hope he goes on to set multiple records and carries us all the way to the Super Bowl. I'll even go out and buy a Foles jersey for every day of the week.

But... so far he hasn't done anything outside put up some flashy (though amazing) numbers. If he threw for 10,000 yards, 100 TDs, and failed to make the playoffs that's a failed season in my opinion. All that means is statistically you're the most talented loser in the league. You compare his stats to Steve Young and Joe Montana but those guys had more then just stats, they have multiple Super Bowl rings on their fingers. I couldn't tell you one of Trent Dilfer's stats right now, but everyone knows he has a Super Bowl ring.

Also I could ask for a lot more from Foles, like four more wins, a division title, a conference championship, a Super Bowl... but I'll gladly settle for a playoff spot at this point. Which I don't think is being unrealistic or outside the realm of possibility as RGIII pulled off the exact same feat last year as a rookie. The Redskins were 3-6 last season before rattling off 7 wins in a row to take the division.

Let me make it clear I have no dislike for Foles. I cheer for him every Sunday because I love the Eagles, and he's our QB. I'll support any player with the Eagles logo on the front if he's making our team better. I'm just not ready to give him the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning level of crowning before he's even had his first post-season appearance.

So I guess Dan Marino sucked by your standards....
Rick
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 5 2013, 12:28 AM) *
If Denver fails in the playoffs, they're going to blame Peyton Manning. If the Patriots fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Tom Brady. If the Saints fail in the playoffs, they're going to blame Drew Brees. If Dallas fails to make the playoffs (please football gods) you know damn well they're blaming Romo. Heaven forbid Foles lose to Dallas again with playoff implications on the line; you'll see how quickly his impressive stats become meaningless.

Right but nobody is gonna say Peyton or Brady or Brees or (even) Romo sucks (well, Eagles fans will say Romo sucks). They are all still quality QBs.
Wheeljack
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Dec 4 2013, 02:45 PM) *
Right now I view Foles as a talented QB with a hot hand right now a la 2011 Michael Vick. Vick had such a hot hand that season it garnered a $100 million contract the next year. But we all know what happened immediately after that. Foles is making the most of his NFL honeymoon period. Defenses haven't figured him out yet just like RGIII/Kaepernick & The Pistol Offense last season. Once he is figured out (and he will be) then we'll see what type of QB Foles really is. Until then my seat on the wagon is reserved but not filled yet.


agreed with everything you typed. I think for the most part (and now since Mariota is opting out), the Eagles don't need to draft anyone in this class (at least not in the first round). they do, however, need to think about acquiring a 3rd QB (I'm all for them keeping Vick as a backup, that way we don't have to worry about his health)... because if disaster strikes, the last thing I want to see is Barkley at QB.
and if the Eagles/Foles suck next year, hopefully the "perfect fit" will fall to them in the draft.

However, winning over AZ (who is a good team) was enough to convince me we don't have a QB controversy, and the problem lies more with some of Chip Kelly's "with a lead" play calling than anything else. but I also don't believe what we're seeing out of Foles would have happened with any other coach. his "on paper" skills are pretty basic, even as far as "conventional" NFL QBs go (Not that having elite anything stopped Tom Brady, but he does have a throwing arm on him at least); it's just that his efficiency in the passing game can't be argued (after all, is that the team record for most completed passes w/o an interception was previously held by...)

I have my questions about Foles under the kind of pressure that the Eagles were not only in the AZ game but the 2nd Washington game (RGIII having an "Eli" moment at the end of that game saved the Eagles).

but at this point, no reason to ride this out and see where it goes. maybe now the Eagles can focus on not having Patrick Chung playing safety. Or have another WR threat opposite DeSean.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.