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Zero
If they can keep Maclin they're receiving corps next year should be very good.
canadianeagle
while I really like Maclin, I wonder if they will try to sign him -- especially with Coopers play. I guess it depends what they can sign him for. I would think his agent will want top 20 wr money. For a guy who gets hurt so much I'm not sure its worth it.
mcnabbulous
Best way to make people forget about your past transgressions. He's making plays when he's called on.
D Rock
Mac will b offered a 1 year "prove it" deal is my guess.

Nobody is gonna offer top 20 money with his numbers.
Eyrie
That catch was Avant-class.

Sadly I think that this will be Avant's last season here - Cooper and Macklin will battle it out to play opposite Jackson which should give us a good trio.
Jax
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 2 2013, 09:13 AM) *
That catch was Avant-class.

Sadly I think that this will be Avant's last season here - Cooper and Macklin will battle it out to play opposite Jackson which should give us a good trio.

Yes it was Avant-class. I too also hate to see Avant go. It's tough to have a #4 WR of that quality.
Rick
I have always liked how Cooper attacks the ball when it's thrown in his direction. I wish more receivers would do this. Would certainly help out QBs in many situations.

He may not be the fastest guy, or run the best routes or have the best hands but he's getting it done. He plays hard all of the time. Nothing to not like about that.
Jax
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 2 2013, 11:43 AM) *
I have always liked how Cooper attacks the ball when it's thrown in his direction. I wish more receivers would do this. Would certainly help out QBs in many situations.

He may not be the fastest guy, or run the best routes or have the best hands but he's getting it done. He plays hard all of the time. Nothing to not like about that.

I rate him above average in route running and maybe in hands too. As far as fast goes, look at his 40 time from the draft and watch when he is running in a straight line, DB's don't close on him that quick. So, he is at least average or better in measure speed but he doesn't have the shiftiness and fluidity of a DeSean Jackson or Victor Cruz or even Maclin who I'd say is average in quicks and shiftiness. Cooper's ability to get open is mostly affected by that factor I think. This is why he wasn't as good with Vick. Vick needed Cooper to get open on his own by 5 yards and then fire a missile at him. That didn't happen much. Foles can utilize the other factors better by passing on time and to the target. This also allows Cooper to use his biggest weapon which is his strength and size. Put Cooper with Payton Manning and he'd be Eric Decker. Heck, at this rate Foles is developing his own Eric Decker.
samaroo
Word. It's also nice to have someone that big and who plays that physical as a RZ target. Avant has been a great Eagle, and hope he still is after this year, but he doesn't have Coop's "box out" ability. I don't know why we don't throw more jump balls to him near the goal line, a la Megatron.*

* I'm not talking about a jump pass, like that Tebow shit, I mean like an alley-oop. Also, I know Coop is not in Megatron's league.
Jax
QUOTE (samaroo @ Dec 2 2013, 11:52 PM) *
Word. It's also nice to have someone that big and who plays that physical as a RZ target. Avant has been a great Eagle, and hope he still is after this year, but he doesn't have Coop's "box out" ability. I don't know why we don't throw more jump balls to him near the goal line, a la Megatron.*

* I'm not talking about a jump pass, like that Tebow shit, I mean like an alley-oop. Also, I know Coop is not in Megatron's league.

Yes, Cooper has the edge in box out and Avant the edge in hands. Although Avant has a bit of box out ability and Cooper has decent hands.
Jax
While we are discussing Cooper, does anyone here on this board that favored cutting Cooper after he spouted the N-word still maintain that we should have cut him?
20dawk
Would love to have cooper and desean outside with maclin back and in the slot. Would also try to draft Allen Robinson in late second early third. That would make this offense scary good.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (samaroo @ Dec 2 2013, 11:52 PM) *
Word. It's also nice to have someone that big and who plays that physical as a RZ target. Avant has been a great Eagle, and hope he still is after this year, but he doesn't have Coop's "box out" ability. I don't know why we don't throw more jump balls to him near the goal line, a la Megatron.*

* I'm not talking about a jump pass, like that Tebow shit, I mean like an alley-oop. Also, I know Coop is not in Megatron's league.


I don't have the numbers immediately available, but the throw it up there to Megatron gameplan is bad policy. It results in lots of picks. I'd much prefer my QB read a defense and throw to the open guy. Stafford is garbage.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (20dawk @ Dec 4 2013, 09:06 AM) *
Would love to have cooper and desean outside with maclin back and in the slot. Would also try to draft Allen Robinson in late second early third. That would make this offense scary good.


Robinson likely won't make it out of round 1, assuming he even leaves.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2013, 10:11 AM) *
I don't have the numbers immediately available, but the throw it up there to Megatron gameplan is bad policy. It results in lots of picks. I'd much prefer my QB read a defense and throw to the open guy. Stafford is garbage.

I wouldn't say that Stafford is 'garbage', however, I agree with your point. I don't agree with the pundits who refer to Stafford as an elite QB.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 4 2013, 11:46 AM) *
I wouldn't say that Stafford is 'garbage', however, I agree with your point. I don't agree with the pundits who refer to Stafford as an elite QB.

Yeah, garbage may be a bit overstated. He's most definitely not elite. Without CJ, I can only imagine how much closer to average he would be.
20dawk
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2013, 10:11 AM) *
Robinson likely won't make it out of round 1, assuming he even leaves.


Idk everything I seen has said round three maybe 2. But he is moving up. I just hope we don't take Coleman from Rutgers. He can't catch hands of stone.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (20dawk @ Dec 4 2013, 11:28 AM) *
Idk everything I seen has said round three maybe 2. But he is moving up.

If he isn't going until late 2 or early 3, I don't know why he would leave early.

I guess that's the more general point. There is no point to leave unless you're virtually guaranteed to be a first rounder. From my perspective, he's a no-brainer first round pick.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Jax @ Dec 3 2013, 10:10 AM) *
While we are discussing Cooper, does anyone here on this board that favored cutting Cooper after he spouted the N-word still maintain that we should have cut him?


I honestly can't figure out who the real Riley Cooper is. I think if Mac and Benn didnt get injured he would have been gone for sure, but he stayed on out of necessity and was wildly ineffective in the beginning of the season. Then, Foles takes over and he starts breaking out.

Look at the receiving stats for this season. Cooper has gone from someone who many people (myself included) said didn't belong on an NFL roster, to being top 40 in rec yards, avg rec, TDs, 20+ yard catches, etc.

What is it that has seemed to unleash this guy?

Maybe Vick just never looked his way or trusted Coop to go after it?
Maybe Foles just has a better connection/vision with Cooper?
Maybe Cooper did a few cycles of steroids early this fall?

I sure as hell don't know, but its tough to argue with the numbers Coop has been putting up, and the games he's played over the last month or so.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Dec 5 2013, 03:54 PM) *
What is it that has seemed to unleash this guy?

Maybe Vick just never looked his way or trusted Coop to go after it?
Maybe Foles just has a better connection/vision with Cooper?
Maybe Cooper did a few cycles of steroids early this fall?

I sure as hell don't know, but its tough to argue with the numbers Coop has been putting up, and the games he's played over the last month or so.


I think having a QB capable of finding his second and third targets consistently is the difference maker.
Flying Dutchman
[quote name='make_it_rain' date='Dec 5 2013, 03:54 PM' post='254632']
What is it that has seemed to unleash this guy?

Maybe Vick just never looked his way or trusted Coop to go after it?
Maybe Foles just has a better connection/vision with Cooper?
Maybe Cooper did a few cycles of steroids early this fall?"

Vick can fire a ball to an open receiver. Foles can throw a receiver open. Big difference! It takes a strong arm for the former and strong talent for the latter. With his height, field vision and intelligence Foles is very capable of putting that talent to work. That is what we are seeing. That is why he is able to maximize Coops talent. Having watched Coop throughout his career, I felt and said he had the talent to succeed in the NFL. He finally has a QB with the talent to use him properly.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 5 2013, 09:14 PM) *
I think having a QB capable of finding his second and third targets consistently is the difference maker.

jumpclap.gif

No doubt.

It's hilarious watching the MV7 love goggled set around here still claiming Cooper sux. I was just reading one of our newer morons saying in another post that our top off season need is a receiver opposite DJax.

laugh.gif

Cooper was never the problem. It was having a former athlete and non quarterback playing QB.

The night and day nature of the numbers with/without Foles for Cooper is nothing short of shocking. Do these people think some sort of light suddenly went on in Riley?

Phits
It a lot to do with the QB/WR relationship. Vick had it with Avant, Foles has it with Cooper.

QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 6 2013, 03:26 PM) *
jumpclap.gif

No doubt.

It's hilarious watching the MV7 love goggled set around here still claiming Cooper sux. I was just reading one of our newer morons saying in another post that our top off season need is a receiver opposite DJax.

laugh.gif

Cooper was never the problem. It was having a former athlete and non quarterback playing QB.

The night and day nature of the numbers with/without Foles for Cooper is nothing short of shocking. Do these people think some sort of light suddenly went on in Riley?

D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 6 2013, 11:50 PM) *
It a lot to do with the QB/WR relationship. Vick had it with Avant, Foles has it with Cooper.

I never bought that line of thinking. Do you honestly believe a quarterback is going to avoid an available option on field because he may not be his favorite OFF the field? I may be naive on this score, but I can't imagine that being the case.

Vick was never a read-the-field type of QB. He (like dunuvin before him) needed guys to be open by a visible margin. Cooper can't do that. Vick didn't have the anticipatory ability to throw a guy like coop open. Foles does.

Avant's numbers were way down this year with Vick playing too. There is no difference in his production going from Vick to Foles. Coopers production however is totally different.
Zero
This is something we've seen before. Too often we get caught up in numbers and stats that ultimately prove irrelevant. I remember a guy the Eagles drafted in 1987 who didn't have much speed but "only scored touchdowns." I'm not comparing Cooper to Carter, except to note that speed isn't the most important part of a WRs ability. It's going to be interesting watching how a 6'3", 222 lb. WR without good speed evolves. Let's hope he doesn't go the way Carter did.
QUOTE
“One of the things that Riley is, and [he's] got a great background in baseball, he does a great job of tracking the ball while it's in the air,” Kelly said. “I think a lot of it is he has some background in being an outfielder."

Cooper, a one-time draft pick of the Phillies, has been one of the big surprises of the season for the Eagles, who are in first place and take an 8-5 record and five-game winning streak into Minneapolis this weekend.

He’s 37 for 714 with seven touchdowns overall, but in Nick Foles’ seven starts, he’s got 27 receptions for 608 yards and six touchdowns.

Pro-rated over a full season with Foles at quarterback, Cooper would have 61 catches for 1,389 yards and 13 touchdowns.

All this from a guy who had 46 catches for 679 yards and five touchdowns in his first three NFL seasons.
Linc ...
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 12 2013, 06:30 AM) *
This is something we've seen before. Too often we get caught up in numbers and stats that ultimately prove irrelevant. I remember a guy the Eagles drafted in 1987 who didn't have much speed but "only scored touchdowns." I'm not comparing Cooper to Carter, except to note that speed isn't the most important part of a WRs ability. It's going to be interesting watching how a 6'3", 222 lb. WR without good speed evolves. Let's hope he doesn't go the way Carter did.
Linc ...

With all due respect Z, I have never disagreed with a post of yours more....ever....on any board LOL.

Riley showed here at UF and repeatedly when healthy and given chance to play that he has GOOD speed for a 6'3 222 lb WR. Is he a burner, no, but he has surprising game speed. That 44 yarder on Sunday he ran off on IIR, 3 defenders, and still made a great Baseball catch. As to Carter, it has been widely reported that a key reason in his release was to force him to get off of his coke habit and get his shit together for both his life and his career. Did he ever, remember? This is excerpted form NFLHOF.com.

"Scoring touchdowns turned out to be something for which Carter became known for during his 16-season NFL career. By the time he retired following the 2002 NFL season, Carter had scored 130 touchdowns which ranked second most in NFL history.

Carter's career started slowly as he showed occasional flashes of brilliance during his three seasons with the Eagles but consistent success did not begin until after he joined the Minnesota Vikings in 1990. Over the next 12 seasons in Minnesota, Carter developed into one of the game's most prolific pass receivers. He led the Vikings in receptions for 10 straight seasons (1991-2000) but it was his 1993 season when he raised his play to a new level. That year, he recorded the first of eight straight 1,000-yard seasons and also earned his first of eight consecutive Pro Bowl berths.
The following season, Carter set a then-NFL record for receptions in a season when he hauled in 122 passes for 1,256 yards and scored 7 touchdowns. His finest season came one year later when, in 1995, he registered his second straight 122-catch season and amassed a career-high 1,371 yards and 17 touchdowns. His two-year total of 244 catches was the most in NFL history."
Wheeljack
QUOTE (Jax @ Dec 3 2013, 09:10 AM) *
While we are discussing Cooper, does anyone here on this board that favored cutting Cooper after he spouted the N-word still maintain that we should have cut him?


yes. I'm not discussing that particular topic.

good for him he decided to stop being a bum on a football field. I honestly do think the difference is Foles, but not because he "sees the field", it's because the two of them practiced a lot together and know each other better (Cooper didn't practice with the 1st team until this season). D-Jax, for example has to come back for a lot of passes thrown his way.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Dec 12 2013, 04:03 PM) *
yes. I'm not discussing that particular topic.

good for him he decided to stop being a bum on a football field. I honestly do think the difference is Foles, but not because he "sees the field", it's because the two of them practiced a lot together and know each other better (Cooper didn't practice with the 1st team until this season). D-Jax, for example has to come back for a lot of passes thrown his way.

It's not just "knowing him better". Vick knows Coop just as well. However, Vick has never been proficient at leading his receivers so they can run into/under the ball. He has always relied on his superb arm to rifle the ball at a wide open receiver. Both types of QBs abound in the NFL. Since Coop will not get wide open as much, it takes touch and finesse to take advantage of his size/strength/coordination abilities.
Phits
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Dec 12 2013, 06:14 PM) *
It's not just "knowing him better". Vick knows Coop just as well.

Avant was the 3rd receiver, not Cooper. Coop's ascension to the #2 spot was a result of Maclin's injury. His performance is a combination of a better rapport with him & Foles. Both of them had plenty of time to practice together and work out the nuances.
Jax
QUOTE (Wheeljack @ Dec 12 2013, 04:03 PM) *
I honestly do think the difference is Foles, but not because he "sees the field", it's because the two of them practiced a lot together and know each other better (Cooper didn't practice with the 1st team until this season).

It's more than familiarity. Familiarity only lasts for a couple games until there is enough film. To completely chalk it up to familiarity is a discredit both players.
Zero
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Dec 12 2013, 03:41 PM) *
With all due respect Z, I have never disagreed with a post of yours more....ever....on any board LOL.

The article stated that Cooper ran a 4.53 and I don't think that's considered to be good speed for a WR. That was the point to the article and the point I was focusing on. So, are you disagreeing with me or with the article? I tried researching Carter's time and couldn't find anything, I'm very much aware of his history.
samaroo
I was always under the impression that Buddy's comment about Carter "only catching touchdowns" was just an excuse to get rid of him without destroying his future. If he had said "all he does is coke and bourbon," he might have been ruined in the NFL afterwards.

I never had a problem with him as a player, but he is freaking annoying as hell now as a commentator. He made himself look like a complete moron during his HOF induction, and I'm sick of seeing him pat himself on the back. Also, he clearly has animosity towards Philly, which is pretty douchey if my take on the situation is accurate.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Jax @ Dec 12 2013, 06:54 PM) *
It's more than familiarity. Familiarity only lasts for a couple games until there is enough film. To completely chalk it up to familiarity is a discredit both players.


Agree completely, Foles may not have the rocket arm Vick does, but he does have a 'touch' that Vick never had. The touch passer adjusts the speed and trajectory depending on the situation, the lob into the end zone for Djax TD was dropped right between the two, Coop was a step too slow but 10 was right there. Vick was deadly accurate when firing with his strength, but had trouble with the finesse pass. Foles is a more complete passer, who also gives his receivers the chance to after the ball while still covered, expecting them to either catch it or break it up if they can't. We have seen plenty of both this season. We will know how they feel about Coop this off season, he is a FA.

Gonna be an interesting off season, oodles of cap space with the new CBO.
Zero
QUOTE (samaroo @ Dec 12 2013, 11:25 PM) *
I was always under the impression that Buddy's comment about Carter "only catching touchdowns" was just an excuse to get rid of him without destroying his future. If he had said "all he does is coke and bourbon," he might have been ruined in the NFL afterwards.

I never had a problem with him as a player, but he is freaking annoying as hell now as a commentator. He made himself look like a complete moron during his HOF induction, and I'm sick of seeing him pat himself on the back. Also, he clearly has animosity towards Philly, which is pretty douchey if my take on the situation is accurate.

I believe Buddy made that comment right after he drafted him. I also think that Carter felt extremely grateful to Buddy for cutting him and shaking him up to the point that he got his life in order.
Rick
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Dec 12 2013, 06:14 PM) *
It's not just "knowing him better". Vick knows Coop just as well. However, Vick has never been proficient at leading his receivers so they can run into/under the ball. He has always relied on his superb arm to rifle the ball at a wide open receiver. Both types of QBs abound in the NFL. Since Coop will not get wide open as much, it takes touch and finesse to take advantage of his size/strength/coordination abilities.

If anyone wants to see a perfect example of a QB throwing a receiver open, look for a recording of last night's Denver/Chargers game. Can't remember exactly when they did this but I think it was right when Denver scored to make it 24-17 with 10:00 to go in the 4th. They showed the camera from the endzone behind Peyton as he was throwing to receivers. Many of the throws were thrown when the receiver was not open but he put the ball where the receiver could go get it. Was a thing of beauty.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 12 2013, 08:54 PM) *
The article stated that Cooper ran a 4.53 and I don't think that's considered to be good speed for a WR. That was the point to the article and the point I was focusing on. So, are you disagreeing with me or with the article? I tried researching Carter's time and couldn't find anything, I'm very much aware of his history.

I didn't look for Carter's speed numbers because he never impressed me with speed but his route running, timing and jumping yes.

Cooper on the other hand is a kid I have followed for going on 8 years now. I have always looked at him as having very good, not great, speed for a big strong WR. Coming out of HS here in Clearwater, he was both a football and baseball sensation, seriously. Rivals called him the 6th best athlete in 2006. The local paper in Gainesville had this to say "Cooper has freakish size—6-foot-4, 205-pounds—and speed, running a legitimate 4.37 second 40-yard dash. He has verbally committed to Florida as a wide receiver, though he will be looked at as a safety." Trust me, he was known to be a big, fast and hard-hitting safety coming out of HS. From the baseball side where he was a top pick centerfield prospect (Phillies draft pick at 15th or 16th round and they are said to have offered a 1st round bonus trying to steal him away from UF). When he gets his big frame rolling he picks up a lot of speed. One Baseball Draft board had this to say about him "Riley Cooper is a 2006 outfielder from Seminole, FL with a extremely athletic body at 6-3, 200 lbs. very good arm strength, quick feet, good range, smooth actions, he can fly, 6.29 in the 60, good bat speed, easy swing mechanics, good balance, gets good extension, excellent power potential, outstanding athlete with serious tools, highest level prospect with high draft potential. Everybody from Foles, to Kelly and to Sheridan have commended his speed. While he doesn't have that initial burst, when he gets rolling like last week or against the Packers or against the Raiders he often outruns the secondary including good DBs like Haden. I don't mean to insinuate that he is anything like a DJ or even the much lighter kid he was in HS, but the general opinion I find and concur with, is people see him as being around the 4.5 range and that, at 6'3", is really good JMHO.
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