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nephillymike
I'd be interested in everyone's honest response, regardless of previous stances, to these two questions.
nephillymike
Field vision, accuracy and protection of the ball are too important.

Give me Foles. I'll use the pick on another area of need.
Zero
I voted yay on the first and nay on the second. RGIII would be like having a taller, younger, more likable and probably more consistent Vick, but not for Foles and a first rounder. Don't forget, I'm a charter DKD member.
bwc2112
Keep Foles, loose Vick.
Pickup hula hoop fan.
I am happy. biggrin.gif
nephillymike
Too many people did not vote.

Chime in folks.

Interested in everyone's opinion
mcnabbulous
Without RGIII's knee injury, I probably would have made the deal. At this point, I'm "too close to call" on the first and a solid nay on the second.

He could be awesome in Chip's offense, but Foles' current production is not worth giving up for a slight upgrade and the injury risk.

D Rock
Thanks to Shanny and his dip shit lil nepotism O coordinating son, RG3 is damaged goods.

No Thanks.
Dreagon
I'm not convinced that RGIII is going to be a starting QB in the NFL four years from now.
Jax
Part II of this question needs to be us receiving the extra draft pick as compensation. Then I would consider it.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Jax @ Nov 18 2013, 07:40 PM) *
Part II of this question needs to be us receiving the extra draft pick as compensation. Then I would consider it.

Spot on.

I probably wouldn't do a straight swap and there is no way in hell I'd give the Racially Insensitives anything in addition.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 17 2013, 06:22 PM) *
I'd be interested in everyone's honest response, regardless of previous stances, to these two questions.


Too close to call, and definitely not. Prior to RGIII getting injured I'd probably go for both, especially in this system.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Jax @ Nov 18 2013, 02:40 PM) *
Part II of this question needs to be us receiving the extra draft pick as compensation. Then I would consider it.



Do you mean we give them Foles and they give us RG III and a first?? If that's what you're saying, I don't think that is realistic, do you?
make_it_rain
I voted "too close to call" for question 1 and "definitely not" for question 2.

With the amount of talent and athleticism Griffin has, it seems like a no brainer, but the lingering question I have is if and when he will ever return to form. It's now week 11 and for the most part of the season he's been everywhere from decent (bears game) to outright putrid (yesterday). I see Griffin much like a rich man's Vick. Very athletic, cannon for an arm, but inconsistent accuracy. You can have the best arm in the world but it means nothing if you can't hit open receivers (see: that Paulsen throw in the first quarter). Moreover, this season he's shown a real tendency to hold the ball too long and make some really bad decisions (see: the last play).

At this point, his mobility is his only real trump card; and even with that, he seems more tentative to take off and just doesnt seem to have that burst back. (Foles outrushed him tongue.gif ). Even with the mobility, eventually teams will start to gameplan better for him if he becomes more one dimensional, PLUS we've seem the injury risk it introduces as well. With someone as hot headed as Griffin hell bent on extending plays (and whose already torn his ACL twice), you have to take this into consideration.

One other thing I don't like about Griffin is his "me me me" attitude. After every game he's always ready to throw someone else under the bus for his shortcomings, whether its his coach, teammates, etc. He seems to have this entitled mindset and I've yet to see him take real accountability or ownership of his play or his team. Say what you want about Vick, but you can't deny that he's a great teammate and holds himself accountable. Although this sort of stubbornness isn't really measurable, I think its a really undesirable quality to have in your QB.

Can he return to form? Maybe. Maybe not. IMO it's not quite worth the risk. Foles isn't as flashy and doesn't have nearly the upside that Griffin has, but that upside means nothing if he can't regain his accuracy or return to form. It's certainly tempting, but the bigger concern is that it could take griffin a long time (if ever) to get his mojo back. So, I say it's too close too call.

And to #2, draft picks are just too valuable now to even think about giving up a promising player and a first rounder for an inconsistent player that has shown flashes of greatness, but might never be the same, and could potentially be an injury liability going forward.
Phits
I wouldn't take RG3, or any of the other drafted QB's from that year, over Foles. I'm not suggesting he is the best of the bunch, but, the differences appear minute. Certainly not enough to justify giving a first rounder. Our QB is playing with a re-building defense with new coaches and in a new system and has made the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Good for him, better for us....especially considering this season was expected to be a wash.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 18 2013, 07:01 PM) *
I wouldn't take RG3, or any of the other drafted QB's from that year, over Foles. I'm not suggesting he is the best of the bunch, but, the differences appear minute. Certainly not enough to justify giving a first rounder. Our QB is playing with a re-building defense with new coaches and in a new system and has made the necessary adjustments to succeed.

Good for him, better for us....especially considering this season was expected to be a wash.

I think Andrew Luck would be absolutely amazing in this offense. Russell Wilson, too. They are both pass first guys with desirable athleticism.

Luck and Rodgers are probably the only two guys in football I'd trade Foles for at this time, no questions asked.
Jax
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 18 2013, 04:59 PM) *
Do you mean we give them Foles and they give us RG III and a first?? If that's what you're saying, I don't think that is realistic, do you?

That's what I meant. It's not realistic but neither is the opposite. In fact, a trade for those two players at all isn't realistic. I thought we were just talking hypothetically about our perceived value of the two players. If that were the case then my feeling is that I'd have to receive the pick with the player and not give up a pick with a player.
nephillymike
This little opinion poll should have crystalized our QB "dilemma" for everyone.

For a while, some here and many on the air waves have been demanding we draft the "QB of the Future".

So, in the last four drafts, only Andrew Luck had a better draft grade than RG III.

RG III was a big success last year.

So, assuming this is a good draft class and assuming there is a QB in this class who would have as high a draft grade as RG III did, (a generous assumption) RG III presents a very good picture of the attainable QB in the draft this year.

Knowing that, I watched the game Sunday and said, I wouldn't take RG III straight up for Foles. Vision, touch, accuracy and decision making are extremely important skill of a QB and Foles has got them. Can you imagine if Foles missed those wide open receivers like RG III? We'd have him on the bench behind Barkley for crissakes. And do you really think that we had his WR's covered all day? He didn't see the field. Vision. Only 2 of the 14 said they would trade Foles straight up and even those two were a luke warm probably.

Now, assuming we wanted a top five pick for a QB this year and were willing to part with Foles, we would still have to give up AT LEAST our 1st round pick to sweeten the deal. All 14 would not pay the price to move up to get in a position to get a QB with a draft rating close to RG III. In reality, we would need to give up more than that. (see the three 1st's and one 2nd Wash gave up to get RG III) and we're drafting much lower than WASH was

Although many may not have realized it, Foles is our franchise QB and if he is a step below that level, nobody is willing to pay the extremely conservative price to move up and get one.

Nick Foles IS the QB of our future!!

Next Question...................................
samaroo
Well said. I like what I see out of Foles and wouldn't even listen to an offer with anyone on Washington's roster. I can't wait to see what Nick can do the rest of this year. Draft defense!!!
Jax
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 18 2013, 08:19 PM) *
Although many may not have realized it, Foles is our franchise QB and if he is a step below that level, nobody is willing to pay the extremely conservative price to move up and get one.

Nick Foles IS the QB of our future!!

Next Question...................................

No argument here. I've been saying basically that for a while now.
Jax
QUOTE (samaroo @ Nov 18 2013, 08:31 PM) *
Well said. I like what I see out of Foles and wouldn't even listen to an offer with anyone on Washington's roster. I can't wait to see what Nick can do the rest of this year. Draft defense!!!

I'm good with that. Although my pipe dream of getting Clowney is very far fetched now.
GQSmooth
I'd consider trading Foles for RG3 pre-injury. But those Shanny boys destroyed his knee and his development. They are the worse thing that happened to RG3.
Reality Fan
As a previous anti Foles fan it is nearly impossible to argue that he is the guy. What I have seen out of him is really shocking. His decision making is pretty amazing for an "oh by the way" draft pick(or so it seemed). He does not have a cannon for an arm but he makes up for it with his head. It also appears that he is one of those rare guys who get better in his mid 20s. I want an even better D so I will be happy if they stay with him next year.

And I admit I was very wrong about this kid.......

And in regards to the question.....Not a chance on either........Shannahan has wrecked Griffin physically and he is a different QB without that elite speed....
Jax
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2013, 09:50 AM) *
As a previous anti Foles fan it is nearly impossible to argue that he is the guy. What I have seen out of him is really shocking. His decision making is pretty amazing for an "oh by the way" draft pick(or so it seemed). He does not have a cannon for an arm but he makes up for it with his head. It also appears that he is one of those rare guys who get better in his mid 20s. I want an even better D so I will be happy if they stay with him next year.

And I admit I was very wrong about this kid.......

And in regards to the question.....Not a chance on either........Shannahan has wrecked Griffin physically and he is a different QB without that elite speed....

I agree RF.

Foles may not have Elite NFL arm strength but neither does Brees or Rodgers (and the list goes on). Foles' arm strength is not a limiting factor. It's not like he has a below average arm and can't make certain throws.
samaroo
You don't NEED a cannon-armed QB to be successful. It's nice, but not necessary. My friend's golf advice rings true:

"It's better to be short and accurate than long and innacurate."
Birdman420
I think nobody would take rgIII in the condition he is in right now, it's a shame but his value has plummeted...

I think a good question would be foles for newton?
Jax
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Nov 19 2013, 08:12 PM) *
I think nobody would take rgIII in the condition he is in right now, it's a shame but his value has plummeted...

I think a good question would be foles for newton?

Newton would be better in our offense than Carolina's offense. I'd consider that trade being the Eagles and Chip Kelly, but from pure QB passing game skills then Foles is better as a drop back passer.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Nov 19 2013, 07:40 PM) *
You don't NEED a cannon-armed QB to be successful. It's nice, but not necessary. My friend's golf advice rings true:

"It's better to be short and accurate than long and innacurate."


A lesson my golf game sorely needs to learn...... sad.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (samaroo @ Nov 20 2013, 01:40 AM) *
You don't NEED a cannon-armed QB to be successful. It's nice, but not necessary. My friend's golf advice rings true:

"It's better to be short and accurate than long and innacurate."

That's why I leave my woods at home. I can go 200 down the middle w my 2 iron, but couldn't hit my driver, 3 or 5 wood straight if my life depended on it.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Nov 19 2013, 10:24 PM) *
That's why I leave my woods at home. I can go 200 down the middle w my 2 iron, but couldn't hit my driver, 3 or 5 wood straight if my life depended on it.


Just got the Rocketballz driver, 3 wood and 5 wood....love them all......now if I can just get consistent....playing turkey day...

my big issue is controlling my draw....but damn I love playing....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2013, 10:32 PM) *
Just got the Rocketballz driver, 3 wood and 5 wood....love them all......now if I can just get consistent....playing turkey day...

my big issue is controlling my draw....but damn I love playing....


Oh those days when I used to fret about my golf game......................

The perfect annunciation and creativity of my curse words.......................
The graceful form of my club throwing..............................

Now I get the chance to go so rarely, that I thoroughly subscribe to "my worst day at golf is better than my best day at work" theory and I get through those few days just fine, smiling much more than I used to when I went often.
samaroo
Yeah, I'm not much of a golfer, but I do like to drink outside and chase a little white ball around! biggrin.gif

On the Newton thing, I do think he'd do well here, but if Nick plays out the rest of this season like he has, I wouldn't trade for him, either. Nick's numbers may be a product of this system, but I don't think this system would work as well with any QB. Not saying Chip couldn't adjust, but Nick's smarts are why he's lighting it up.

The main reason P. Manning is great, IMO, is because he's so good at reading the D, he knows where he's gonna throw it before the snap. I'm not suggesting Foles is on that level, but his decision making is a lot farther down that path than most 2nd year QBs. I'm more than happy to ride the Nick Foles train until he derails himself.
Zero
I want to change my vote!
QUOTE
"This could be coming to a head," Silver said. "Inside the building, we talked to people familiar with the situation, they perceive RGIII as kind of insecure, specifically about Kirk Cousins, which may be one reason he (RGIII) was so eager to rush back. At Baylor (University), they didn't put RGIII's bad plays up on the board in the meeting rooms. Sources familiar with the situation say he has asked the Redskins to do the same. They have refused to up to this point."
QUOTE
The initial controversy this week spawned from a perception that some Redskins players wanted Griffin to take more blame for the teams' struggles. A request to not be called out for poor plays would bolster the belief that there is an undercurrent of discontent within the locker room, even if every side denies it exists.

Griffin has sometimes been defensive when speaking with the media this season, and Silver's report supports the idea that it could be more than just perception.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 24 2013, 12:41 PM) *
I want to change my vote!



I don't think a Left Tackle would have been so insecure if they took him at the #2 spot.............................

Sorry McNabbulous the devil03.gif made me do it

Lord, I apologize for that one there, and please be with all the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea.

biggrin.gif
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