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samaroo
I know that this was a bad and truly shocking weekend, but we got Acho back. I remember some being pretty upset that he didn't make the squad, and I for one am glad to see him back. I hope he starts getting in the rotation quickly, I'd like to see him in this system.

I'm also kinda bummed we let Poyer go, I had some (I said some) hope for him when we drafted him. I did a tiny bit of research on him, and thought we might have gotten a steal in the 7th. Maybe I just convinced myself of that...

At any rate, am I the only one who noticed or cares that Acho is back? Do you guys think it even matters?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
At any rate, am I the only one who noticed or cares that Acho is back?


Yes.


QUOTE
Do you guys think it even matters?


No.
nephillymike
Yeah I was happy to see that. He should be able to make the 53 before long.

Yeah Poyer was a disappointment. He was supposed to be a steal in the 7th (had low 3rd high 4th round grade.

But then again, Barkley and his three INT (after a 4th was called back) in just one quarter of play was supposed to be a steal in the 4th so what the heck do they know.
samaroo
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 22 2013, 10:15 PM) *
Yeah I was happy to see that. He should be able to make the 53 before long.

Yeah Poyer was a disappointment. He was supposed to be a steal in the 7th (had low 3rd high 4th round grade.

But then again, Barkley and his three INT (after a 4th was called back) in just one quarter of play was supposed to be a steal in the 4th so what the heck do they know.


I don't think it's fair to judge Barkley on his outing on Sunday. He's a rookie with little to no preparation put in a bad spot. People were saying that judging Foles on his "small sample size" is unfair, and I agree. We're gonna judge Barkley on one quarter?
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 22 2013, 10:56 PM) *
I don't think it's fair to judge Barkley on his outing on Sunday. He's a rookie with little to no preparation put in a bad spot. People were saying that judging Foles on his "small sample size" is unfair, and I agree. We're gonna judge Barkley on one quarter?


My criticisms tend to run higher in the Dallas game.

God I hate that fucking team with every fiber.

Barkley didn't impress in the preseason and most alarming to me, he seems to have no remorse for the shit he threw out there Sunday. You would have thought he had three TD's instead of INT's. It's one thing being cool. It's another not feeling the pain of the moment. The last guy who's demeanor struck me that way was Fredex. Sorry, but that's who I remember that way. I hope I'm dead wrong.
Rick
Why would I care about a player who is barely good enough to make an NFL roster? If he starts playing like he belongs and making plays, I may start to care. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.
samaroo
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 23 2013, 12:01 AM) *
My criticisms tend to run higher in the Dallas game.

God I hate that fucking team with every fiber.

Barkley didn't impress in the preseason and most alarming to me, he seems to have no remorse for the shit he threw out there Sunday. You would have thought he had three TD's instead of INT's. It's one thing being cool. It's another not feeling the pain of the moment. The last guy who's demeanor struck me that way was Fredex. Sorry, but that's who I remember that way. I hope I'm dead wrong.


Understood. A divisional loss, especially to Dallas, always hurts more.

Wow, I hope you're wrong too. I'd forgotten about Mitchell...damn, I really hope you're wrong.

QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 23 2013, 07:11 AM) *
Why would I care about a player who is barely good enough to make an NFL roster? If he starts playing like he belongs and making plays, I may start to care. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.


I remember him playing pretty well this preseason. Really well, in fact. Am I romanticisizing the past? Didn't he look good? I don't have a way to rewatch those games or I would. If this was a stupid thread, I'm sorry. I just seem to remember being really bummed when he got cut.
Jax
Excellent comparison Mikey. Barkley = Fredex

I am usually one for giving players enough opportunity to really determine whether they can help us. I was disappointed in Foles' performance but not ready to bury him. Barkley is an exception to my rule. I have seen enough of Mr. Trojan.

Too bad Poyer didn't even get half of a season...
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 08:48 AM) *
Excellent comparison Mikey. Barkley = Fredex

I am usually one for giving players enough opportunity to really determine whether they can help us. I was disappointed in Foles' performance but not ready to bury him. Barkley is an exception to my rule. I have seen enough of Mr. Trojan.

I don't understand how you could criticize Barkley more than Foles after Sunday. At least Barkley was throwing it in the vicinity of other football players. What should he be remorseful about? He's not the one that got us into a 17-3 deficit.

He was thrust into a no-win situation. First NFL playing time and he's forced to throw the ball nearly every down in an attempt to lead his team back from a big deficit. He averaged about 2.5 times the yards per attempt as Foles.

Give him a break.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 24 2013, 10:30 AM) *
I don't understand how you could criticize Barkley more than Foles after Sunday. At least Barkley was throwing it in the vicinity of other football players. What should he be remorseful about? He's not the one that got us into a 17-3 deficit.

He was thrust into a no-win situation. First NFL playing time and he's forced to throw the ball nearly every down in an attempt to lead his team back from a big deficit. He averaged about 2.5 times the yards per attempt as Foles.

Give him a break.

More like give me a break. 4 INT's in 3 possessions. He's another in the long list of overrated Trojan QB's. There's a reason he was available in the 4th round. There's a reason USC stunk his final season. Sanchez, Leinart, Barkley were all made to look better by playing with surrounding talent that was on a distinctly higher level than their opponents. I will take Foles and you may have Barkley.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 12:27 PM) *
Give him a break? Give me a break.

What is your realistic expectation for a rookie who has never seen NFL playing time and is forced to throw the ball 95% of the time?

Christ, you guys all cry for McNabb having to "chuck and duck" 65% of the time and not being able to rely on a run game.

Yeah, he's a rookie. Give him a break. He still looked better than Foles.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 24 2013, 01:35 PM) *
What is your realistic expectation for a rookie who has never seen NFL playing time and is forced to throw the ball 95% of the time?

Christ, you guys all cry for McNabb having to "chuck and duck" 65% of the time and not being able to rely on a run game.

Yeah, he's a rookie. Give him a break. He still looked better than Foles.

My expectation is to throw fewer than 4 picks in 1 quarter of football. That's a season for some QB's. Foles threw zero INT's in that game. I am not saying that Foles was anything more than horrendous but given the choice I will take Foles because Barkley I don't think Barkley will be a NFL QB. He even sucked in the preseason against non-NFL players.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 12:27 PM) *
He's another in the long list of overrated Trojan QB's. There's a reason he was available in the 4th round. There's a reason USC stunk his final season. Sanchez, Leinart, Barkley were all made to look better by playing with surrounding talent that was on a distinctly higher level than their opponents. I will take Foles and you may have Barkley.

You obviously don't follow USC all that closely. He was afforded a shitbag for a head coach and stayed with that program during sanctions that significantly limited the talent. Despite their record, they still averaged over 34ppg on offense. Matt Barkley was the furthest thing from their problem.

You may have noticed they're not playing too hot this year.

Rick
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 23 2013, 08:17 PM) *
I remember him playing pretty well this preseason. Really well, in fact. Am I romanticisizing the past? Didn't he look good? I don't have a way to rewatch those games or I would. If this was a stupid thread, I'm sorry. I just seem to remember being really bummed when he got cut.

Not a stupid post or anything, I just don't understand how so many people are even thinking twice about this.

Apparently, he didn't play well enough. And nobody else picked him up (unless I missed something) so, really, how good is he?

I don't concern myself with the fringe players to be quite honest. Once they start making plays on a regular basis, I start to take notice.
Rick
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 01:27 PM) *
More like give me a break. 4 INT's in 3 possessions. He's another in the long list of overrated Trojan QB's. There's a reason he was available in the 4th round. There's a reason USC stunk his final season. Sanchez, Leinart, Barkley were all made to look better by playing with surrounding talent that was on a distinctly higher level than their opponents. I will take Foles and you may have Barkley.

You forgot to mention how he failed to impress during the preseason. And he wasn't playing against starters, hell, not even the 2nd string! He was playing against all of the guys who were probably not making the roster. Yet he still failed to impress.

I'm not surprised at all how he performed on Sunday. Yes, he was in a bad situation, however, I have not seen anything out of this kid which makes me feel like he is any good in the NFL.

Foles, at least, has some track record of success at this level (although it's a short track).
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 24 2013, 01:54 PM) *
You obviously don't follow USC all that closely. He was afforded a shitbag for a head coach and stayed with that program during sanctions that significantly limited the talent. Despite their record, they still averaged over 34ppg on offense. Matt Barkley was the furthest thing from their problem.

You may have noticed they're not playing too hot this year.

You are correct that I don't follow the PAC (forgot how many there these days). I am on the east coast and usually don't stay awake to watch the games. I have noticed USC isn't too good this year. Anyway, I don't think Barkley is too good in the NFL either and I don't see many people, even NFL experts, suggesting that he may be the answer for the Eagles either.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 06:45 PM) *
Anyway, I don't think Barkley is too good in the NFL either and I don't see many people, even NFL experts, suggesting that he may be the answer for the Eagles either.

That may be true. The odds are stacked against every guy that steps into the league, especially those who are drafted in the fourth round. I just think you're being overly critical of a rookie who was put into an impossible situation.

People forget that these guys are regularly seeing things they've never seen before and the game is significantly faster than any previous level. Defenders close on passes they wouldn't have sniffed in college.

Guys like Luck have changed the way we perceive rookie QBs, but it shouldn't be the norm. Especially when a guy is forced to drop back and sling it every time against a defense that knows what is coming. Monte Kiffin has a solid reputation for a reason.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 24 2013, 08:53 PM) *
That may be true. The odds are stacked against every guy that steps into the league, especially those who are drafted in the first round. I just think you're being overly critical of a rookie who was put into an impossible situation.

People forget that these guys are regularly seeing things they've never seen before and the game is significantly faster than any previous level. Defenders close on passes they wouldn't have sniffed in college.

Guys like Luck have changed the way we perceive rookie QBs, but it shouldn't be the norm. Especially when a guy is forced to drop back and sling it every time against a defense that knows what is coming. Monte Kiffin has a solid reputation for a reason.


I don't think it is overly critical. Many players have been thrust into action unexpectedly. Very few players have ever thrown 4 INT's in 3 series. Also, he was the backup that week so he should have been slightly prepared or that is his fault. I'm sure the Eagles didn't ignore him all week.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 24 2013, 07:56 PM) *
I don't think it is overly critical. Many players have been thrust into action unexpectedly. Very few players have ever thrown 4 INT's in 3 series. Also, he was the backup that week so he should have been slightly prepared or that is his fault. I'm sure the Eagles didn't ignore him all week.

He threw 20 passes in less than a quarter. It was a no win situation.

It's not like he came into a tie ballgame and shit the bed. He was forced to throw into nickel and dime coverages against better players and a better scheme than he had likely ever seen in his life. Trying to make up a 14 point deficit that someone else created.

You've completely written him off as a result. That's overly critical.
samaroo
I can't see how anyone can pass judgement on Barkley from his outing this past Sunday. His preseason was his first "live" NFL action, when his shoulder was still hurting. And against Dallas, he was thrust into a terrible spot, as a rookie, coming from behind in the fourth quarter. For comparison, here's some stats from other QB's first starts as rookies:

Peyton Manning: 21 for 37 (56.76%), 302 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT
Aaron Rodgers: 8 for 15 (53.3 %), 65 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 36.8 QBR
Andrew Luck: 23 for 45 (51.1%), 309 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT, 3 sacks, 52.9 QBR

Also, Luck and Manning knew they were starting since the draft, and were prepared to start for an entire off-season. Using some of the logic here, all three should have been cut because they didn't set records the first time out.

I don't have any expectations for Barkley. He might suck forever, or he might be the next Peyton. I don't know. I do know that he's got a good attitude, he was the only 4 year captain in USC history (which is a good sign of his leadership ability), his shoulder looks a lot better, he's smart, and he hasn't had a chance to show anyone anything yet. Give the guy a chance, is all I'm saying.
Jax
I hope he gets more of a chance... for the Browns...
samaroo
Tough crowd...
Jax
QUOTE (samaroo @ Oct 25 2013, 01:07 AM) *
Tough crowd...

Just doing my part here I guess wink.gif

I'm usually the one telling everyone else to moderate. In the case of Barkley, I just don't see him becoming our QB. Perhaps, as Mikey said, he ticked me off by smiling after each INT. So Cal baby. I'm pretty sure Barkley wouldn't mesh with Larry Bowa lol
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 25 2013, 08:31 AM) *
Perhaps, as Mikey said, he ticked me off by smiling after each INT. So Cal baby. I'm pretty sure Barkley wouldn't mesh with Larry Bowa lol


You must have hated Donnie.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 25 2013, 10:49 AM) *
You must have hated Donnie.

I didn't like worm burners but I loved Donovan. I don't recall people questioning his competitiveness. He had personality that made him likable but you can have personality and still be intense. I never saw Don throw 4 picks in 3 possessions so I can't say how he would've reacted.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 25 2013, 09:54 AM) *
I didn't like worm burners but I loved Donovan. I don't recall people questioning his competitiveness. He had personality that made him likable but you can have personality and still be intense. I never saw Don throw 4 picks in 3 possessions so I can't say how he would've reacted.

I'm primarily talking about the smiling after a fuckup. That was a Donnie trademark.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 25 2013, 11:42 AM) *
I'm primarily talking about the smiling after a fuckup. That was a Donnie trademark.

But never did people question his competitiveness. I agree though, in the moment it certainly doesn't leave us fans smiling.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 25 2013, 10:44 AM) *
But never did people question his competitiveness.

Who is doing this regarding Barkley besides you and Mikey?

I would argue that the same type of chatter was going on after Donnie would throw a worm burner, pat himself on the chest and smile. Just because some fans on message boards are tossing it around, doesn't make it a reality.

Nothing I ever heard about Barkley at the collegiate level questioned his competitiveness. In fact, I heard the absolute opposite. As has been pointed out, this guy is the first 4 year captain in USC history.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 25 2013, 10:55 AM) *
Who is doing this regarding Barkley besides you and Mikey?

I would argue that the same type of chatter was going on after Donnie would throw a worm burner, pat himself on the chest and smile. Just because some fans on message boards are tossing it around, doesn't make it a reality.

Nothing I ever heard about Barkley at the collegiate level questioned his competitiveness. In fact, I heard the absolute opposite. As has been pointed out, this guy is the first 4 year captain in USC history.


I thought he was an absolute steal in the 4th round. I thought he would come in and at least play as well as Foles did last year.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just see that air about him that he is comfortable with himself, with his talent, and seemingly with his results based on the lack of urgency that he portrays in post game interviews. If I'm reading it right, the danger with a guy like that is that he thinks he is good enough based on his pedigree and past performance and never has the want to to get better because he thinks he's all that. I see Fredex is his post game interview demeanor. I remember the post game interview with Fredex after he ran the wrong pattern on the playoff ending INT that McNabb threw against Stl in our first NFCCG for Reid. He had no remorse, no embarrassment, no sense of shame, no sense of urgency.

I've seen it happen in college. Guys with great HS "careers, with great stuff, would get on the mound and get lit up like a Christmas tree. Afterwards, they weren't down because they knew they threw hard, they knew their curveball had bite, but they never were insulted enough to get movement on their fastball instead of being straight. Never worked on the placement of the curve, the mental aspect of pitching. They'd come in with a lot of expectations, and then when they got demoted to the long relief role in the bullpen two years later, would quit the team, all because they never thought they had to improve. Thought they were better than they were. Barkley seems that way.

Again, I hope I am wrong.
Jax
This thread is at its end. We can agree to disagree and see how Barkley plays out. If anyone wants, I'd wager that he will never be a starting QB for a team in Week 1 of a season... for a friendly 12-pack of cold ones.
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