Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Vicks job is safe
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Pages: 1, 2
SAM I Am
nm
JeeQ
It's hard hitting wide open receivers with no pressure on you
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Oct 20 2013, 03:34 PM) *
nm


he looks like Eli Manning meets Drew Bledsoe today.
JeeQ
I'm starting to get physically ill watching this son of a bitch

Addendum: Looks like he ended up going out with an injury after all, but Barkley managed to do even worse wacko.gif
nephillymike
One on one press coverage on the outside receivers.

One safety on the TE

One safety on the other TE

No spy on the QB.

Gives them one more to stop the run.

If our WR can't beat the press coverage, or our QB is inaccurate or plays Captain Checkdown, it makes for a real long day.

Shame of it is, if the QB hits the open WR's he threw to (ignoring all of those he didn't see), this game is a Fg difference with a shot of us winning.

Worst QB play I've seen since Foles last year vs. Dallas.

Now if Vick is in there, they play man to man press coverage at their own risk. Reason being, when they do that, you can simply send all WR's deep and then have Vick run the ball and all the CB's backs will be turned defending the Wr so they can't see the QB. Also, the D will have a LB spy on Vick, which opens up the running lane to McCoy and opens up over the middle passes to the TE's.

Thought was that Foles would make up for it by seeing the field better and more accurate passing. Based on today against the 2nd worst D in the NFL under pretty good protection, he just didn't do the job. He was so bad, I don't have the confidence he will take advantage of his supposed advantages going forward.

We need Vick to get well soon to have a shot this year, and we might need him to stay young for another year or two to have a shot in the next few years, unless a total collapse gets us a shot at one of the top echelon QB's in the draft.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 21 2013, 12:11 AM) *
We need Vick to get well soon to have a shot this year, and we might need him to stay young for another year or two to have a shot in the next few years, unless a total collapse gets us a shot at one of the top echelon QB's in the draft.


I admire your optimism but I just cannot get to the point where I see the Eagles having a shot this year, regardless of who the QB is.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 20 2013, 07:11 PM) *
Thought was that Foles would make up for it by seeing the field better and more accurate passing. Based on today against the 2nd worst D in the NFL under pretty good protection, he just didn't do the job. He was so bad, I don't have the confidence he will take advantage of his supposed advantages going forward.

How does one explain that he has been an accurate passer in the past and was throwing more worm burners today than McNabb ever did?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 07:23 PM) *
I admire your optimism but I just cannot get to the point where I see the Eagles having a shot this year, regardless of who the QB is.


The defense was good enough today to give us a chance. If it improves over the season, anything could happen in the playoffs, assuming Vick was lighting it up.
Chip Kelly
I also think it's safe to say that they will be drafting a QB in the upcoming draft. Vick doesn't have that many years left, Foles and Barkley don't have a future in Philly.
mcnabbulous
I didn't get to see the second half. What was wrong with Barkley? Forcing throws, innacurate, not enough arm?

Didn't expect him to be such a mess, although with rookie QB's you just never know.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2013, 12:12 AM) *
The defense was good enough today to give us a chance. If it improves over the season, anything could happen in the playoffs, assuming Vick was lighting it up.



This team is not making the playoffs this year regardless of who the QB is. Even if they do, so what? They are not getting to and winning the Super Bowl. I have had a life time of different Eagles teams making the playoffs. I want more and Vick is not going to get it for me.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 08:24 PM) *
This team is not making the playoffs this year regardless of who the QB is. Even if they do, so what? They are not getting to and winning the Super Bowl. I have had a life time of different Eagles teams making the playoffs. I want more and Vick is not going to get it for me.


Our schedule is very favorable. We can definitely make the playoffs.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2013, 01:44 AM) *
Our schedule is very favorable. We can definitely make the playoffs.


Maybe if we got to play the Bucs and Giants for the rest of the year.

Either way, like I said above, so what? It would just be another early round playoff loss and another soon forgotten season. Making the playoffs means absolutely nothing to me if there is not an SB victory at the end of the season.
Chip Kelly
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2013, 07:44 PM) *
Our schedule is very favorable. We can definitely make the playoffs.


I think we can too. The division sucks.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 08:48 PM) *
Maybe if we got to play the Bucs and Giants for the rest of the year.

Either way, like I said above, so what? It would just be another early round playoff loss and another soon forgotten season. Making the playoffs means absolutely nothing to me if there is not an SB victory at the end of the season.


Building a foundation of success is extremely important to a new regime. There is never anything negative about making the playoffs.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 21 2013, 02:48 AM) *
Building a foundation of success is extremely important to a new regime. There is never anything negative about making the playoffs.


Building anything around Vick is foolish. His best days are behind him and he cannot stay healthy. He is not going to get any better and he is not going to become more durable. Getting into the playoffs now, with Vick, just drops the Eagles to the bottom of the 1st round in next year's draft. That means no QB of the future if Foles is not it. I would be OK if there was something to be gained by making the playoffs but there is nothing to gain. It can only lead to mediocrity at best. It is time to cut bait and move on. Much like Indy did with Manning and Luck.
Dreagon
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 08:58 PM) *
Getting into the playoffs now, with Vick, just drops the Eagles to the bottom of the 1st round in next year's draft.


Yeah, I've got a feeling this is going to be the curse for whoever wins the NFC East this year. They'll go one and done, and end up behind a lot of better teams on draft day.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 20 2013, 07:42 PM) *
How does one explain that he has been an accurate passer in the past and was throwing more worm burners today than McNabb ever did?


I don't think it was that Foles was throwing McNuggets, he was just throwing the shit to Sicklerville instead of the WR. Like he needed glasses or something
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 08:24 PM) *
This team is not making the playoffs this year regardless of who the QB is. Even if they do, so what? They are not getting to and winning the Super Bowl. I have had a life time of different Eagles teams making the playoffs. I want more and Vick is not going to get it for me.


Vick alone is not going to get it. The defense, while they played better than they did all season yesterday, is going to be the chief reason why the Eagles would be a joke playoff team. There is no way that this team even beats the Lions in the playoffs. Personally, I'd be fine with a younger, more durable QB with Vick-like qualities... if one exists in the draft, I'm all for it. Right now, the playoffs don't do very much for what the Eagles need to do going forward. As far as I'm concerned Vick is a better version of Doug Pedersen.

I'll root for them to win every game but I'm not going to be mad if they don't (well, maybe if they can't beat this season's iteration of the G-INTs). they aren't a good team. I'm not even mad about losing to Dull-ass, even. Andy's first year was crap. Chip's year was going to be crap regardless (the team was "managed" to 4-12 last season). What he's shown in coaching, flaws aside, is something I want to see more of going forward. The Eagles never have ever recouped on doing something "different" than the rest of the league but I'm optimistic that with a team geared toward the vision Chip has, that they just might.

I say all of this to say that the Eagles DON'T need to win now. New coach, mostly young players, much room for improvement.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 20 2013, 08:23 PM) *
I didn't get to see the second half. What was wrong with Barkley? Forcing throws, innacurate, not enough arm?

Didn't expect him to be such a mess, although with rookie QB's you just never know.


All three. I still don't get that last INT, but at that point it didn't matter. Garbage time and the Eagles had no chance of getting enough scores to win.
nephillymike
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 20 2013, 06:23 PM) *
I admire your optimism but I just cannot get to the point where I see the Eagles having a shot this year, regardless of who the QB is.



Cant' see the point where we have a shot??

How about if Vick plays yesterday combined with the way the defense played, then we're 4-3, in first place in the division, with an easier remaining schedule than the two teams below us.

To me, that's plenty of a shot in week 7, after a 4-12 year during the first year of a new coach.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 21 2013, 09:53 PM) *
Cant' see the point where we have a shot??

How about if Vick plays yesterday combined with the way the defense played, then we're 4-3, in first place in the division, with an easier remaining schedule than the two teams below us.

To me, that's plenty of a shot in week 7, after a 4-12 year during the first year of a new coach.


It comes down to what you want. I want a Super Bowl victory. Vick is not going to get me there, ever. If you are satisfied with yet another early bounce from the playoffs then Vick is your man.
mcnabbulous
You can't win a SB without making it to the playoffs. First things first.
Eyrie
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 21 2013, 09:53 PM) *
Cant' see the point where we have a shot??

How about if Vick plays yesterday combined with the way the defense played, then we're 4-3, in first place in the division, with an easier remaining schedule than the two teams below us.

To me, that's plenty of a shot in week 7, after a 4-12 year during the first year of a new coach.

How about if Foles had played on Sunday like he did the previous two weeks? Same outcome as you suggest with Vick - a decent chance of winning the division.

Vick could have lit it up or shit the bed just as Foles could have done either. Problem is that Foles took the wrong option.

CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 06:52 PM) *
You can't win a SB without making it to the playoffs. First things first.


This is getting ridiculous but I am going to try this one more time. Even if this team gets to the playoffs, so what? They are not winning the Super Bowl so the playoffs mean nothing. All a playoff birth does for the Eagles is put them in the bottom of the draft. Good luck getting the franchise QB that can fully run Chip's offense with a playoff pic.

I have addressed this in numerous posts and I keep getting response like the one from McNabbulous. I am not trying to single McNabbulous out. I like debating McNabbulous but I find this latest post rather insulting. I really don't need someone to tell me a playoff appearance is necessary to win a SB. I kind of figured that out over the last 35 years of watching this team. Thanks for the insight.

This is not a stepping stone year like 2000 where the team was on an upward trajectory and had a good young nucleus to continue building around. The playoff experience in that season had value because that team had the pieces in place. This team is not close to being a SB contender and the foundation is not in place to build towards being a contender, especially on defense. Hell, we don't even know who the QB for this run is going to be and people are hoping for a playoff birth because hey, you never know what can happen once you get in the playoffs. Unreal.

I would rather see the Eagles step back, properly assemble the pieces to make a long sustained run. Pushing all of the chips to the center of the table this season just because the Eagles can get into the playoffs representing what is arguably the worse division in the NFL is not in the best long term interests of this team.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 01:52 PM) *
This is getting ridiculous but I am going to try this one more time. Even if this team gets to the playoffs, so what? They are not winning the Super Bowl so the playoffs mean nothing. All a playoff birth does for the Eagles is put them in the bottom of the draft. Good luck getting the franchise QB that can fully run Chip's offense with a playoff pic.

I have addressed this in numerous posts and I keep getting response like the one from McNabbulous. I am not trying to single McNabbulous out. I like debating McNabbulous but I find this latest post rather insulting. I really don't need someone to tell me a playoff appearance is necessary to win a SB. I kind of figured that out over the last 35 years of watching this team. Thanks for the insight.

This is not a stepping stone year like 2000 where the team was on an upward trajectory and had a good young nucleus to continue building around. The playoff experience in that season had value because that team had the pieces in place. This team is not close to being a SB contender and the foundation is not in place to build towards being a contender, especially on defense. Hell, we don't even know who the QB for this run is going to be and people are hoping for a playoff birth because hey, you never know what can happen once you get in the playoffs. Unreal.

I would rather see the Eagles step back, properly assemble the pieces to make a long sustained run. Pushing all of the chips to the center of the table this season just because the Eagles can get into the playoffs representing what is arguably the worse division in the NFL is not in the best long term interests of this team.

Because winning breeds winning. Our team has been losing, a lot, for several years. It's a young group of guys that would benefit greatly from creating a culture of winning. Especially with a new coach and unproven system.

If you think we're going to go from a regular 4-12 or 6-10 team to a team that walks through the playoffs, you're missing the big picture. Even if we had a one and done in the playoffs, it would be a playoff experience that a significant portion of our roster had never experienced.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 08:20 PM) *
Because winning breeds winning. Our team has been losing, a lot, for several years. It's a young group of guys that would benefit greatly from creating a culture of winning. Especially with a new coach and unproven system.

If you think we're going to go from a regular 4-12 or 6-10 team to a team that walks through the playoffs, you're missing the big picture. Even if we had a one and done in the playoffs, it would be a playoff experience that a significant portion of our roster had never experienced.



If winning breads winning what does losing in the playoffs breed?

And enough with assuming what I think. I have been watching professional football for 34 years and I am not missing the "value" of making the playoffs this year. Did you not just read what I wrote about the 2000 season? I clearly stated that the playoff appearance in 2000 was good because the team was on an upward trajectory with a good young nucleus in place. There is no value in this team making the playoffs this season. This team does not have the foundation in place to become a legitimate SB contender and the cornerstone of that foundation is not going to be laid by making the playoffs this season. The foundation will be laid by building through the draft, just like it almost always is. A playoff appearance this season actually sets the Eagles back, it does nothing for the long term prospects of this team.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 02:36 PM) *
If winning breads winning what does losing in the playoffs breed?

And enough with assuming what I think. I have been watching professional football for 34 years and I am not missing the "value" of making the playoffs this year. Did you not just read what I wrote about the 2000 season? I clearly stated that the playoff appearance in 2000 was good because the team was on an upward trajectory with a good young nucleus in place. There is no value in this team making the playoffs this season. This team does not have the foundation in place to become a legitimate SB contender and the cornerstone of that foundation is not going to be laid by making the playoffs this season. The foundation will be laid by building through the draft, just like it almost always is. A playoff appearance this season actually sets the Eagles back, it does nothing for the long term prospects of this team.

Yeah, I read it. But I just don't agree with it. We have one of the youngest teams in football. Our offensive nucleus is in place, minus the QB.

The 2010 Seahawks went 7-9 and ended up winning a playoff game in Carroll's first season. You don't think that was a positive for their franchise?

Edit: I just simply can't believe we're debating whether making the playoffs is a good thing.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 07:44 PM) *
Yeah, I read it. But I just don't agree with it. We have one of the youngest teams in football. Our offensive nucleus is in place, minus the QB.

The 2010 Seahawks went 7-9 and ended up winning a playoff game in Carroll's first season. You don't think that was a positive for their franchise?


You read it yet came to the conclusion that I was not seeing the big picture value of going to the playoffs this year. Not sure why you would make that assumption after I clearly stated that there are periods in a team's life-cycle that playoff experience is beneficial.

Also, I have to ask what it is you don't agree with. Your post reads as if you don't agree that the 2000 team was poised to make a long, sustained run? I truly hope that there is some miscommunication there.

So the offense is in place minus the QB? Is that all? The most important piece of the offensive puzzle is missing and as we all know, franchise QBs don't come around often. Besides the QB, the Eagles also need a 2nd WR. I don't think Jackson\Maclin are a good enough duo. Maclin needs to be upgraded. We do not have the TE in place either. Ertz may pan out but that remains to be seen. I am hopeful but not sold. RB is set. So is the OL but they are going to have to look at replacing Peters before long.

The defense, based on what we have seen so far, is no where near ready for a SB run. It is going to take a couple of seasons to get that side of the ball straightened out.

For the sake of argument, let's define a legitimate SB contender as a team that reaches a conference championship game. Assuming that Chip gets the Eagles to that point, how many players from this season's roster would you wager would be on that team? My guess is it will be less than half. It may even be less than a quarter. That is why there is no benefit to making the playoffs this season. Whatever experience is gained will be largely flushed away as the bottom half of this sorry roster is cleared out.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 07:44 PM) *
Edit: I just simply can't believe we're debating whether making the playoffs is a good thing.


It is because you either fail to see or maybe you disagree with the idea that a high draft pick in next year's draft is better for the long term success of the Eagles. Making the playoffs this season precludes the Eagles from getting that high draft pick. Agreeing or disagreeing with that idea is fair game. After all, it is an opinion that probably separates a lot of fans.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 03:09 PM) *
You read it yet came to the conclusion that I was not seeing the big picture value of going to the playoffs this year. Not sure why you would make that assumption after I clearly stated that there are periods in a team's life-cycle that playoff experience is beneficial.

And like I said, we're a very young team. I'm not sure how it doesn't benefit this stage of our life cycle.e

QUOTE
Also, I have to ask what it is you don't agree with. Your post reads as if you don't agree that the 2000 team was poised to make a long, sustained run? I truly hope that there is some miscommunication there.

I'm not talking about the 2000 team. I'll agree they were in a prime position to make a huge run, but that isn't the only type of team capable of gaining value from a playoff appearance. Like I said, the 2010 Seahawks are a great example.

QUOTE
So the offense is in place minus the QB? Is that all? The most important piece of the offensive puzzle is missing and as we all know, franchise QBs don't come around often. Besides the QB, the Eagles also need a 2nd WR. I don't think Jackson\Maclin are a good enough duo. Maclin needs to be upgraded. We do not have the TE in place either. Ertz may pan out but that remains to be seen. I am hopeful but not sold. RB is set. So is the OL but they are going to have to look at replacing Peters before long.

You don't have to have a perfect team to win a SB. Our offense could use some upgrades, but the pieces we have are capable.

And yes, we need a QB, which is why I was vocal in my support of drafting Geno Smith this past offseason. With that said, maybe we do get one this year in the draft. Wouldn't it be nice to have some skill players that have had success in Chip's new offense and got to experience the playoffs? QB's can come in and make an immediate impact. Maybe a guy falls to us in the draft who perfectly fits what Chip wants to do.

QUOTE
The defense, based on what we have seen so far, is no where near ready for a SB run. It is going to take a couple of seasons to get that side of the ball straightened out.

I agree that it will take a few years, but all you need is to get hot at the right time.

QUOTE
For the sake of argument, let's define a legitimate SB contender as a team that reaches a conference championship game. Assuming that Chip gets the Eagles to that point, how many players from this season's roster would you wager would be on that team? My guess is it will be less than half. It may even be less than a quarter. That is why there is no benefit to making the playoffs this season. Whatever experience is gained will be largely flushed away as the bottom half of this sorry roster is cleared out.

If you keep giving seasons away, very few. If you go with your best players, and in this case, Vick is our best QB, who knows. I would think about half are capable of being on a really solid team.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 08:33 PM) *
You don't have to have a perfect team to win a SB. Our offense could use some upgrades, but the pieces we have are capable.


No team is perfect so I agree with you there. I am not convinced this offense is good enough yet. Chip's new offense has been in place for 7 games. Of those 7 games, 4 were against teams that have winning records as of today. The Eagles have averaged 24 points against those teams which is a good sign. Let's see where the season takes us now that the league has nearly a half a season's worth of tape on Chip's offense before declaring this offense SB ready. There are several teams that are .500 or better teams on the schedule that will give us more opportunities to evaluate this offense.

QUOTE
Wouldn't it be nice to have some skill players that have had success in Chip's new offense and got to experience the playoffs? QB's can come in and make an immediate impact. Maybe a guy falls to us in the draft who perfectly fits what Chip wants to do.


If the Eagles were fortunate enough to get a QB in next year's draft that can take the Eagles to the playoffs in '14, you will not have to worry about skill position players having playoff experience. McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Avant, etc. all have playoff experience already.

QUOTE
I agree that it will take a few years, but all you need is to get hot at the right time.

If you keep giving seasons away, very few. If you go with your best players, and in this case, Vick is our best QB, who knows. I would think about half are capable of being on a really solid team.


Wishful thinking and hoping a team gets hot at the right time is not the way to build a team. If it happens great, enjoy the ride. The smarter move is to plan for the ultimate goal and laying a foundation that puts you in position to earn that goal on your own, without hoping for good fortune.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 03:49 PM) *
Wishful thinking and hoping a team gets hot at the right time is not the way to build a team. If it happens great, enjoy the ride. The smarter move is to plan for the ultimate goal and laying a foundation that puts you in position to earn that goal on your own, without hoping for good fortune.

I guess I just don't get your overall point. You want us to lose so we can get a better draft pick? I don't think Foles is the future any more than I think Vick is the future. For that reason, I don't get the value in having him lead the team this year. Especially if Vick's skillset is more similar to what Chip may ultimately want at the position.

Vick deserves to play. If we make a run, it will be fun. If not, we'll have a draft pick in the middle of the first round and we'll hope our front office can get us an impact player.

Being perennial losers isn't good for a young group of players with limited leadership.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 09:25 PM) *
I guess I just don't get your overall point. You want us to lose so we can get a better draft pick? I don't think Foles is the future any more than I think Vick is the future. For that reason, I don't get the value in having him lead the team this year. Especially if Vick's skillset is more similar to what Chip may ultimately want at the position.

Vick deserves to play. If we make a run, it will be fun. If not, we'll have a draft pick in the middle of the first round and we'll hope our front office can get us an impact player.

Being perennial losers isn't good for a young group of players with limited leadership.


I want the Eagles to stop wasting time with Vick. He is not the short term answer because this team is not good enough to win a SB. Getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs, again, is not my idea of fun. He is not the long term answer because of his age and propensity for getting injured. I am also doubtful of his skills as well. In 2010, he was great. In '11 and '12, he was pretty bad. I will give him credit for his games so far this year though. Unfortunately he got hurt running out of bounds, no contact. His injuries are part of the Vick package.

I don't want the Eagles to lose just for the sake of the pick. I am not a fan of intentionally tanking. I want the Eagles to give Foles the season to prove himself. If he fails, the draft pick is there at the top of the first round to take a shot at another QB. If he succeeds, we will have a lower pick but we will be able to use that on a defensive player. You have a better chance of finding a defensive player in the middle or bottom half of the first round than you do a franchise QB at the same spot.

You are back to using hope as a strategy for finding a new QB after a playoff run this season. That is not a sound strategy for building anything. It's analogous to buying a lottery ticket to fund your retirement.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 04:37 PM) *
I want the Eagles to stop wasting time with Vick. He is not the short term answer because this team is not good enough to win a SB. Getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs, again, is not my idea of fun. He is not the long term answer because of his age and propensity for getting injured. I am also doubtful of his skills as well. In 2010, he was great. In '11 and '12, he was pretty bad. I will give him credit for his games so far this year though. Unfortunately he got hurt running out of bounds, no contact. His injuries are part of the Vick package.

I don't want the Eagles to lose just for the sake of the pick. I am not a fan of intentionally tanking. I want the Eagles to give Foles the season to prove himself. If he fails, the draft pick is there at the top of the first round to take a shot at another QB. If he succeeds, we will have a lower pick but we will be able to use that on a defensive player. You have a better chance of finding a defensive player in the middle or bottom half of the first round than you do a franchise QB at the same spot.

You are back to using hope as a strategy for finding a new QB after a playoff run this season. That is not a sound strategy for building anything. It's analogous to buying a lottery ticket to fund your retirement.

Where we clearly disagree is thinking Foles may be the answer. He's not. We need a QB. It's really that simple. We should have taken one last year.

Losing in the first round of the playoffs is a hell of a lot more fun than going 5-11.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 22 2013, 09:40 PM) *
Where we clearly disagree is thinking Foles may be the answer. He's not. We need a QB. It's really that simple. We should have taken one last year.

Losing in the first round of the playoffs is a hell of a lot more fun than going 5-11.


Foles may not be the answer. I am not convinced yet either. I just want him to have the season to prove it.

We also disagree on how much fun it is to lose in the first round of the playoffs. I do not get excited by making the playoffs. Watching the Eagles lose in the playoffs all during the Ryan years while watching the rest of the NFCE win SBs in that era raised the bar for what I consider fun when it comes to watching the Eagles. I do admit that I enjoyed the ascent of the Eagles under Reid. Making the playoffs after the loss to the Rams in the NFCCG was fun because there were realistic expectations of winning a SB then. That expectation is not realistic this season or nor will it be next season. There is no fun for me with a hollow playoff appearance.
iggleslover49
I'm confused. CT Eagle are you saying that we should say fuck the playoffs because you want Foles to play? Are you even an Eagles fan? How do you know we won't win the SB? Once you get in the playoffs ANYTHING can happen. Eli won two offa being hot. Vick can win 4 games straight. Hell look at the SB champs. JOE FLACCO just won it; Joe flacco is a BUM. I swear people's hate toward Vick has them delusional...
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 04:20 PM) *
It is because you either fail to see or maybe you disagree with the idea that a high draft pick in next year's draft is better for the long term success of the Eagles. Making the playoffs this season precludes the Eagles from getting that high draft pick. Agreeing or disagreeing with that idea is fair game. After all, it is an opinion that probably separates a lot of fans.

From Igglesblitz:

QUOTE
Here are the QBs for NFC playoff teams if the season ended today.

1) Seahawks Russell Wilson (75th pick)
2) Saints Drew Brees (32nd pick)
3) Packers Aaron Rodgers (24th pick)
4) Cowboys Tony Romo (Undrafted)
5) 49ers Colin Kaepernick (36th pick)
6) Lions Matthew Stafford (1st pick)

...Of the last ten Super Bowl champions, only three QBs were Top 10 picks. All with the last name Manning.


The worst QB in the group is the only #1 pick. With Chip's offensive strategy a top flight "elite" high first round QB is not necessary.

I think it's better to have Chip in the post season as soon as possible, so he can get a feel for the post season pressures
Rick
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 05:37 PM) *
I want the Eagles to stop wasting time with Vick. He is not the short term answer because this team is not good enough to win a SB. Getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs, again, is not my idea of fun. He is not the long term answer because of his age and propensity for getting injured. I am also doubtful of his skills as well. In 2010, he was great. In '11 and '12, he was pretty bad. I will give him credit for his games so far this year though. Unfortunately he got hurt running out of bounds, no contact. His injuries are part of the Vick package.

I don't want the Eagles to lose just for the sake of the pick. I am not a fan of intentionally tanking. I want the Eagles to give Foles the season to prove himself. If he fails, the draft pick is there at the top of the first round to take a shot at another QB. If he succeeds, we will have a lower pick but we will be able to use that on a defensive player. You have a better chance of finding a defensive player in the middle or bottom half of the first round than you do a franchise QB at the same spot.

You are back to using hope as a strategy for finding a new QB after a playoff run this season. That is not a sound strategy for building anything. It's analogous to buying a lottery ticket to fund your retirement.

I tend to agree with this as well.
iggleslover49
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/10/...s/#more-1733901

Perhaps you guys have seen this already, but if you haven't, here is an all-22 of some of the game. Look at all these missed plays, Foles is not a rookie anymore and has started enough games to not let him slide for this kind of play. Let's say he WAS hurt, if a groin injury prevents him from hitting guys THIS open, then how can one even consider him their QB of the future. Vick is given so much holy hell for his decision making and not seeing recievers, but let's face it, Vick see's and makes a lot of these throws. The throw to Celek and the throws to Djax, I almost guarantee Vick would see and hit. Foles LOOKS right at open targets and still doesn't give them a chance?!?! Wake up people.
Rick
While I won't say I don't want the Eagles to be in the playoffs, I will say that, as the team is right now, a playoff appearance would (realistically) only give Chip, his staff and some players some playoff experience. Certainly not a bad thing but I don't see any way this team goes on to win a SB--as it stands today. Yes, anything can happen, however, it's very unlikely--with this team currently--they'd make a run.

With that said, would I rather see them attempt a run? Absolutely. So I am not saying tank the season. What I am saying is, I'd rather see if Foles (or someone else) can get the job done. Vick (obviously) cannot for various reasons. So I don't know that we're any worse (or better) without Vick running this team.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 22 2013, 08:40 PM) *
Vick (obviously) cannot for various reasons.

Can you please elaborate on this?
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Oct 23 2013, 12:51 AM) *
I'm confused. CT Eagle are you saying that we should say fuck the playoffs because you want Foles to play?


If you are still confused after reading my numerous posts explaining my position than I regret to inform you that no matter how many more posts I make on this subject you are doomed to remain in your state of confusion.

QUOTE
Are you even an Eagles fan?


Well I thought I was but maybe I am wrong. Perhaps you should tell me what opinions I should hold in order to be considered an Eagles fan in your eyes. Nah, fuck off. I don't care if you consider me an Eagles fan or not.


QUOTE
How do you know we won't win the SB? Once you get in the playoffs ANYTHING can happen. Eli won two offa being hot. Vick can win 4 games straight. Hell look at the SB champs. JOE FLACCO just won it; Joe flacco is a BUM. I swear people's hate toward Vick has them delusional...



Obviously I have no way of saying with 100% certainty that we will not win the Super Bowl this year. I do feel pretty confident in my opinion on it though. Perhaps we can revisit this post in February and we can see who was right. If you like we can even put a wager on it. I doubt you will put anything of value on the Eagles winning the Super Bowl because it is a sucker's bet and hopefully you know it.

On a side note, I do not hate Vick so you can stop with that crap right now. That tact is used to try to diminish the person making a point instead of challenging the point being made. It is tedious and boring. Do us all a favor and get a new schtick.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 23 2013, 12:59 AM) *
From Igglesblitz:



The worst QB in the group is the only #1 pick. With Chip's offensive strategy a top flight "elite" high first round QB is not necessary.

I think it's better to have Chip in the post season as soon as possible, so he can get a feel for the post season pressures


You may be right about Chip's offense not needing a top flight QB. Hell, I hope you are right. It would make Chip's job of getting a Lombardi a whole lot easier. I do disagree with the value of getting to the playoffs this season so that Chip, and the players for that matter, get a feel for the post season. I don't think a playoff birth this season will have much, if any, positive value for the Eagles moving forward. It is a difference of opinion that cannot really be proven either way.

With regards to the draft position of the QBs that would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, look at it this way. You have one pick in next year's draft. That pick is the 5th overall in the round of your choosing. You can pick any round from the 1st through the last. Which round are you going to choose to pick your QB of the future? I am fairly certain you will take your chances in the 1st round. That is what the Eagles have to decide. Play Vick and maybe make the playoffs. If they do make the playoffs, the odds of them getting a quality QB drop. That is the history of the NFL. The recent results are the outlier. The Eagles need to decide if that playoff appearance is worth dropping to the bottom of the first round. They also have to decide if Foles is answer for them. Since as you stated above an "elite" QB may not be necessary, Foles may be the answer. There is only one way to find out. That is to play Foles and not worry about making the playoffs this year. Who knows. If Foles is the answer, they could still make the playoffs this season.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Oct 23 2013, 01:13 AM) *
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/10/...s/#more-1733901

Perhaps you guys have seen this already, but if you haven't, here is an all-22 of some of the game. Look at all these missed plays, Foles is not a rookie anymore and has started enough games to not let him slide for this kind of play. Let's say he WAS hurt, if a groin injury prevents him from hitting guys THIS open, then how can one even consider him their QB of the future. Vick is given so much holy hell for his decision making and not seeing recievers, but let's face it, Vick see's and makes a lot of these throws. The throw to Celek and the throws to Djax, I almost guarantee Vick would see and hit. Foles LOOKS right at open targets and still doesn't give them a chance?!?! Wake up people.


Vick played like shit all of 2011 and 2012 but you want to give him a pass. Foles plays one bad game and there is no hope for him. Unreal. When are people going to stop putting so much stock into one game? Give him the season to see if he can correct his mistakes before writing him off. We already know what Vick will give the Eagles. He has a whole career behind him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 22 2013, 06:59 PM) *
From Igglesblitz:



The worst QB in the group is the only #1 pick. With Chip's offensive strategy a top flight "elite" high first round QB is not necessary.

I think it's better to have Chip in the post season as soon as possible, so he can get a feel for the post season pressures



Thank you Phits!!

You saved me a bunch of time researching what I knew to be true.

Also, most times being bad enough to get a top five pick means the people you have drafting and evaluating pro talent are too clueless to be able to pick a winner with an early pick out of the hat. For those few pieces that need to be filled via FA, having a playoff team will get you more shots and good, sought after veterans.

Making the playoffs, in this city of losers of late, would be a great thing for all.

If the D can play near average and Vick gets back and ready to go, we WILL win the East, much to the disappointment of too many people around here IMO.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 09:15 PM) *
Vick played like shit all of 2011 and 2012 but you want to give him a pass. Foles plays one bad game and there is no hope for him. Unreal. When are people going to stop putting so much stock into one game? Give him the season to see if he can correct his mistakes before writing him off. We already know what Vick will give the Eagles. He has a whole career behind him.

Vick didn't play like shit with THAT kind of time in the pocket. 2012 Vick was lucky to sit in the pocket for 2 seconds, literally. 2011 Vick played bad, but Vick didn't play as bad as THAT. Vick averaged over 300 yards in just about every game. Nick Foles got what? 80 yards passing? Name one game Vick only got a 80 yards passing in 2011 and 2012. Hell, Vick had games rushing more than that.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 22 2013, 08:57 PM) *
On a side note, I do not hate Vick so you can stop with that crap right now. That tact is used to try to diminish the person making a point instead of challenging the point being made. It is tedious and boring. Do us all a favor and get a new schtick.

It's not a tact. It's what that person sounds like when they say they want to go with the quarterback that is worse. And would rather jeapordize the season to do so. We've been through this before. Nick Foles had his shot to be the starter, he didn't get it done. Vick outplayed him, period. And after that showing in Dallas, it's obvious why Vick is the starter. As the title states, Vick's job is safe. Fuck jeapordizing the season to see what Foles can do. Professionals play to win. This ain't college ball.
nephillymike
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Oct 22 2013, 07:13 PM) *
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/10/...s/#more-1733901

Perhaps you guys have seen this already, but if you haven't, here is an all-22 of some of the game. Look at all these missed plays, Foles is not a rookie anymore and has started enough games to not let him slide for this kind of play. Let's say he WAS hurt, if a groin injury prevents him from hitting guys THIS open, then how can one even consider him their QB of the future. Vick is given so much holy hell for his decision making and not seeing recievers, but let's face it, Vick see's and makes a lot of these throws. The throw to Celek and the throws to Djax, I almost guarantee Vick would see and hit. Foles LOOKS right at open targets and still doesn't give them a chance?!?! Wake up people.


After seeing the All-22 and the Eagles Extra show with Diddy, Baldi and BWest, I was ill.

It is one thing to not see the field. But on so many of his poor decisions, he was looking directly at a wide fucking open receiver and did not pull the trigger, only to pull it down and go to a covered guy. I have never seen a more poorly QB'd game by an Eagles QB in a big game. (What was it, five times in ten years in the NFL had anyone thrown 29 or fewer times for 80 yards or less? Most times, when guys don't see the field, it isn't like they're looking right at a wide open guy like Foles was. In amazement I ask what the fuck is he doing. In an admitted stupid statement by me I say I don't think a guy who had money on the fucking Cowboys could have done more to damage our team's chances of winning that game. It was THAT bad. At least the wonder kid Barkley made typical low end rookie QB mistakes of staring down his WR's and throwing late to them. Foles? Who knows. Not shown here is the wide open TD he stared at Cooper for two seconds and decided not to throw. His inaccurate throws to open receivers was only outdone by his failure to pull the trigger on wide open receivers who he had stared down. It did not surprise me when hopefuls like Kolb, Feeley, Ty Detmer collapsed in the past. Foles, yes that surprised me. Maybe who wouldn't flash to our liking. But never in a million years did I think he would be so thoroughly bad. His ceiling may not be as high as others but no way did I think his floor was capable of being so low. I'm still stunned. He seems like such a standup good guy that it would be real easy wishing him to succeed. Just a shame really.
Rick
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Oct 22 2013, 08:50 PM) *
Can you please elaborate on this?

Really? How about a 10 year career of not being able to?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.