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D Rock
I had no idea just how bad the Boiz defense was hurting.

Good read
Dreagon
Our defensive line is hurting. Of our starters last year...Ware, Spencer, and Ratliff are out and Spears is gone. Hatcher, who was a backup last year, is the only starter left on our line.

And Demarco Murrey is hurt as well, and right now looks like he'll miss the game too. His primary backup is also out with injury, which leaves our numbers 3 and 4 running backs which is Randle and Tanner. Randle hasn't shown anything yet, and Tanner is mostly a power back and not a homerun threat.
D Rock
Awesome! (Sorry)

It looks like a great time to face your Boiz. I'm not usually one to salivate over facing depleted teams, but we're not good enough to eschew that kind of fortune.

Yet.
Zero
I think Jimmy believes Foles is better in the Red Zone. biggrin.gif
Jax
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 15 2013, 06:12 AM) *
I think Jimmy believes Foles is better in the Red Zone. biggrin.gif

That seems to be a popular opinion. Why exactly?
Zero
Maybe it's that with Foles the Eagles have better success in the Red Zone.
Jax
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 15 2013, 08:10 AM) *
Maybe it's that with Foles the Eagles have better success in the Red Zone.

Right, my question was why do people believe that to be the case?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 15 2013, 08:04 AM) *
Right, my question was why do people believe that to be the case?


Foles has been pretty good statistically, especially this year. Vick has been terrible his entire tenure in Philly.
Jax
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 15 2013, 09:18 AM) *
Foles has been pretty good statistically, especially this year. Vick has been terrible his entire tenure in Philly.

Yes Vick has been poor in the RZ and yes Foles has been solid in the RZ. I am a Foles fan but his sample size is much smaller than Vick's so it is hard to say how much there is to Foles being better in the RZ than Vick.
D Rock
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 15 2013, 12:08 PM) *
That seems to be a popular opinion. Why exactly?

Foles red zone td % is 30 points higher than Vicks.

His QB rating in the red zone is nearly 100 points higher.

DJax had 2 red zone receptions for his entire career prior to the 2nd half of the vagiants game. Since? He has 4 receptions and 2 TDs.

Didn't catch Foles line for the 2nd half Sunday? 6 of 7 for 147 yards and 2 TDs.

That's some virtuoso shit, man. And against the #4 defense in the league.

But folks wanna hate because he doesn't "pass the eye test."

laugh.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 15 2013, 01:54 PM) *
Yes Vick has been poor in the RZ and yes Foles has been solid in the RZ. I am a Foles fan but his sample size is much smaller than Vick's so it is hard to say how much there is to Foles being better in the RZ than Vick.

No doubt it's a small sample size. Exactly why we should let that sample grow.

What stands out to me, is that even w Foles playing 6 quarters of football, he has as many TDs as Vick has in his 14. You can't shake a stick at those results.

Well, you could. But you'd look like a wack job shaking a stick.

wink.gif
Jax
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 15 2013, 11:08 AM) *
No doubt it's a small sample size. Exactly why we should let that sample grow.

What stands out to me, is that even w Foles playing 6 quarters of football, he has as many TDs as Vick has in his 14. You can't shake a stick at those results.

Well, you could. But you'd look like a wack job shaking a stick.

wink.gif


Haven't we now played 24 quarters of football, so, Foles - 6 quarters and Vick - 18 quarters?
D Rock
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 15 2013, 04:31 PM) *
Haven't we now played 24 quarters of football, so, Foles - 6 quarters and Vick - 18 quarters?

Oi !

Me and mental math.... rolleyes.gif

You are correct. The fact remains that they each have 7 TDs in their vastly different amount of playing time.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 15 2013, 11:31 AM) *
Haven't we now played 24 quarters of football, so, Foles - 6 quarters and Vick - 18 quarters?

Didn't Foles play one of the quarters against the Broncos? I had kind of tuned out in that game.

17-7, by my count.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 15 2013, 04:47 PM) *
Didn't Foles play one of the quarters against the Broncos? I had kind of tuned out in that game.

17-7, by my count.

No. He played a series.
Jax
Ok, so 17.75 and 6.25, we can settle on that!

Anyway, agree, 7 TD's and vastly different amount of time.
JeeQ
In a perfect world Vick would play until we get into the Red Zone then Foles would come into the game.

Vick flies from one end of the field to the other then it's like a gigantic slamming of the breaks the minute he hits the Red Zone. Foles on the other hand is almost built for a RZ Offense. He's tall, he's accurate, he makes quick reads, and his arm strength is more than adequate inside the 20s.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Oct 15 2013, 02:17 PM) *
In a perfect world Vick would play until we get into the Red Zone then Foles would come into the game.

Vick flies from one end of the field to the other then it's like a gigantic slamming of the breaks the minute he hits the Red Zone. Foles on the other hand is almost built for a RZ Offense. He's tall, he's accurate, he makes quick reads, and his arm strength is more than adequate inside the 20s.

This all couldn't be more true. I would have no problem with Chip experimenting with it.

This season is all about laying the groundwork, in my opinion. Doing some unorthodox stuff would be fine by me.
D Rock
Nah -

This is not a case of 1 guy being able to move between the 20s and the other being great in the red zone. They BOTH move the ball between the 20s, yet only 1 has an issue in the red zone.

It's become crystal clear to me. It's been said many times before by many of our members. Vick just isn't that good of a quarterback.


Zero
Vick's a much better QB than he was in Atlanta but his talent keeps getting in the way.
Rick
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 16 2013, 06:55 AM) *
Vick's a much better QB than he was in Atlanta but his talent keeps getting in the way.

He is? I haven't seen it.
koolaidluke
meh, no excuses. The Cowboys totally dominated the Redskins last week. Hatcher is a stud who is finally being properly utilized. Homo is a good QB as long as the game is not on the line.

One problem for the Cowboys is that Kiffin's defenses were routinely dominated by Kelly's offenses when Kiffin was at USC. That being said, Kiffin's D's struggled mightily against zone-read teams in general, and the Eagles can't use the zone read with Foles.

Cowboys win. If the Eagles win then they are officially the class of the NFC Least
Jax
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 16 2013, 07:52 AM) *
Cowboys win. If the Eagles win then they are officially the class of the NFC Least


On the first point, maybe and probably. On the second point, I don't think it would necessarily mean that. We could stub our toe against any and all of the other teams in the Division the second time around.
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 16 2013, 06:58 AM) *
He is? I haven't seen it.

I take it that have never seen him play as an Eagle?
Dreagon
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 16 2013, 06:52 AM) *
meh, no excuses. The Cowboys totally dominated the Redskins last week. Hatcher is a stud who is finally being properly utilized. Homo is a good QB as long as the game is not on the line.

One problem for the Cowboys is that Kiffin's defenses were routinely dominated by Kelly's offenses when Kiffin was at USC. That being said, Kiffin's D's struggled mightily against zone-read teams in general, and the Eagles can't use the zone read with Foles.

Cowboys win. If the Eagles win then they are officially the class of the NFC Least


The Redskins offensive line should have been fired after what they let happen. Half of those defensive linemen on our side were guys we had picked off the street. I'm not sure us "dominating" the Redskins meant much of anything. I'm starting to wonder if last year wasn't a fluke for them while the rest of the league adjusted to their new QB, because when he ain't at a hundred percent he sure don't get much help from the rest of the team. The only reason they aren't in the division basement is because the Giants suck even worse.

I'm going to be curious to see what both coaches do, as well. Kiffin surprised me against the Redskins, and put Carr man to man on Garcon. I liked it, but I'm scared he'll go back to his zone scheme this weekend. Especially with y'all having a deep threat like Jackson.
As much as we're going to miss Ware, I think the loss of Murray may hurt us worse against you guys. With our top two RBs out, Kelly isn't going to have to worry about stacking the box at any time. He'll probably decide to make us prove whether or not we can run on him before pulling attention away from Romo's passing targets. That worries me, because Garrett has been notorious about giving up on the run lately.
Bez
I am hoping to watch this next game , it was cool getting to watch RG play.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 16 2013, 01:14 PM) *
I take it that have never seen him play as an Eagle?

As an iggle he's been pretty much that which he's always been. For every game where he looks like he's developed into an actual QB, there are 3 where he's improvising and tossin the play book out the window.

He'll never b a real QB.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 16 2013, 11:58 AM) *
He is? I haven't seen it.

Zero and DRock are right - Vick's instincts and natural ability as a football player have always got in the way of his development as a QB.
koolaidluke
It's tough to run a lot of zone against a team that uses so many package plays. Although that never stopped Kiffin from doing just that against Oregon when he was at USC... and getting destroyed.

My assumption is that the Cowboys will try to go mostly man.

Kelly isn't going to have to worry about stacking the box at any time

Kelly probably has even less interest in the defensive side of the ball than Reid did. He will let incompetent Davis run the show and who knows what that butthead will decide to do. I can assure you it will be something stupid.

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