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nephillymike
OK, for whatever reason, they make the decision that Harbor wasn't a keeper. IMO, he is good enough to be a 3rd TE on most teams, and probably a #2 for a handful.

Knowing this, Howie couldn't parlay this into a trade to a team higher up on the waiver wire (ie a GOOD team) for a quality backup S, CB or 3-4 OLB. Remember we got Acho in a similar trade and he looks like gangbusters compared to what we have. Even have Chip call his buddy up North in NE and get a quality backup plus a camouflaged video camera.

It shouldn't have been difficult.
iggleslover49
I ain't gonna lie. I was definitely hoping Harbor made the team. Dude has WR athleticism with TE strength and toughness. Roseman says they kept iqwenagu over Harbor because he was a FB/TE type. Where as other than Casey, our other TEs, are not lead blocker types. I guess Geathers will play a roll in our defense, but Stanley Havili would have fit what we want iggy to do better. Plus he was effective as a runner and can catch better.
Gee E
I don't get it. Are you actually implying the Eagles didn't try to trade the player? That they simply said, "OK, I've got nothing better to do. Let's just cut Harbor." Or something like that?



QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 1 2013, 01:54 PM) *
OK, for whatever reason, they make the decision that Harbor wasn't a keeper. IMO, he is good enough to be a 3rd TE on most teams, and probably a #2 for a handful.

Knowing this, Howie couldn't parlay this into a trade to a team higher up on the waiver wire (ie a GOOD team) for a quality backup S, CB or 3-4 OLB. Remember we got Acho in a similar trade and he looks like gangbusters compared to what we have. Even have Chip call his buddy up North in NE and get a quality backup plus a camouflaged video camera.

It shouldn't have been difficult.

D Rock
QUOTE (Gee E @ Sep 1 2013, 03:22 PM) *
I don't get it. Are you actually implying the Eagles didn't try to trade the player? That they simply said, "OK, I've got nothing better to do. Let's just cut Harbor." Or something like that?

Uh, yeah.

Duh
nephillymike
QUOTE (Gee E @ Sep 1 2013, 10:22 AM) *
I don't get it. Are you actually implying the Eagles didn't try to trade the player? That they simply said, "OK, I've got nothing better to do. Let's just cut Harbor." Or something like that?



Yep.

Other cut down day priorities, didn't foresee the situation they had a week earlier when they could have put out feelers.
nephillymike
Case in point, he was nabbed by the team at #2 in the waiver pecking order. As was McCoy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Reality Fan
Why is the assumption that they didn't put out feelers accepted as fact? Cutting Harbor has been reported in the media as a good probability so there was little risk by the Jags, if they had interest, to wait to see if he got cut and then taking him as they did. It is not like the guy is Jason Witten and people were lining up to get him. In all honesty it would have been silly for the Jags to trade anything to get him knowing he could be cut or wait to see who else got cut.

Just because nothing got done does not mean an effort was not made.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 1 2013, 03:17 PM) *
Why is the assumption that they didn't put out feelers accepted as fact?


Because he's a viable player who was immediately picked up after he was cut.......duh
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 1 2013, 02:17 PM) *
Why is the assumption that they didn't put out feelers accepted as fact? Cutting Harbor has been reported in the media as a good probability so there was little risk by the Jags, if they had interest, to wait to see if he got cut and then taking him as they did. It is not like the guy is Jason Witten and people were lining up to get him. In all honesty it would have been silly for the Jags to trade anything to get him knowing he could be cut or wait to see who else got cut.

Just because nothing got done does not mean an effort was not made.



You don't trade with the guys at the top of the waiver chain (ie Jags). They have no real incentive since they have a shot at getting him free of charge.

You trade with the more talented teams who have better players in their system and are at the back of the waiver chain and know they would never have a shot at getting him b/c those teams at the front of the waiver chain would claim him.

That was my assumption anyway. I know I know assume at you make an ass out of me. But the fact that the Jags picked him up meant the one part of my assumption was correct. I'm pretty sure that there were teams who would have traded something for him further down the waiver chain.

Well never know for sure..............
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 1 2013, 04:05 PM) *
You don't trade with the guys at the top of the waiver chain (ie Jags). They have no real incentive since they have a shot at getting him free of charge.

You trade with the more talented teams who have better players in their system and are at the back of the waiver chain and know they would never have a shot at getting him b/c those teams at the front of the waiver chain would claim him.

That was my assumption anyway. I know I know assume at you make an ass out of me. But the fact that the Jags picked him up meant the one part of my assumption was correct. I'm pretty sure that there were teams who would have traded something for him further down the waiver chain.

Well never know for sure..............



agreed...we will never know.....but I laugh when little tool bags like ole housie boy in their thirst to feel like they are bright little boys assume it is fact....now a smart guy like you thinking that worries me...lol

I would be stunned if they hadn't...you know how Howie likes to make deals.....that alone speaks volumes......but beyond that...you watched Harbor play the 4th game.....he was beyond mediocre in that game.....
Gee E
Because posters here seem to live in their own world of self-delusion.

They disregard the fact that 99% of the other waived players were simply cut instead of being traded.



QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 1 2013, 08:17 PM) *
Why is the assumption that they didn't put out feelers accepted as fact? Cutting Harbor has been reported in the media as a good probability so there was little risk by the Jags, if they had interest, to wait to see if he got cut and then taking him as they did. It is not like the guy is Jason Witten and people were lining up to get him. In all honesty it would have been silly for the Jags to trade anything to get him knowing he could be cut or wait to see who else got cut.

Just because nothing got done does not mean an effort was not made.

Zero
Would someone have picked up Iggy if he had been cut? Joyner was a cut and signed later. Wouldn't it have been smarter to keep Harbor and try to trade him, assuming Iggy made it through wavers?

How did Prater last to us with the wacky waiver wire?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 2 2013, 06:18 AM) *
Would someone have picked up Iggy if he had been cut? Joyner was a cut and signed later. Wouldn't it have been smarter to keep Harbor and try to trade him, assuming Iggy made it through wavers?

How did Prater last to us with the wacky waiver wire?



It's a game of chess. If they really wanted Iggy over Harbor, then why take the risk? Iggy has hardly any film vs. Harbor, was not drafted and wasn't even a top UDFA, so yes he had a greater chance of getting thru. But the smart way was to secure the guy you wanted and trade the guy you had behind him, who was more in demand.

Looking at who KC, Jax and Oak picked up, there were probably a few we may have been interested in. Of the three teams, only KC plays the 3-4, so any DL, or LB's taken by them were 34 guys whereas any taken by Jax and Oak were 43's. Given our DB's situation, it is not a stretch to assume some interest in DB's taken. Here are some we may have had interest in:

KC - CB M. Cooper, DT J. Howard, LB, J. Michael-Johnson, LB D. Moses, CB R. Parker
Jax - S W. Gay
Oak - they took a 43DE and an OG so I assume no interest there.

So if their boards matched ours, we got the 3rd best available CB, missed out on the top safety and the top two 34LB's and the top 34DT.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Gee E @ Sep 1 2013, 06:28 PM) *
Because posters here seem to live in their own world of self-delusion.

They disregard the fact that 99% of the other waived players were simply cut instead of being traded.



Somehow the Cowboys managed to get something for their FIFTH tight end.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/...sario-to-bears/

With 32 teams cutting from 75 to 53, that creates a pool of 704 waiver guys. Even with your 1% low expectations of trades, that's 7 trades and, yes, I did expect Howie to have Harbor as one of those 7 trades.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Gee E @ Sep 1 2013, 07:28 PM) *
Because posters here seem to live in their own world of self-delusion.

They disregard the fact that 99% of the other waived players were simply cut instead of being traded.


Hence his moniker, Fantasy Fan.
JeeQ
All I know is Casey Matthews is the luckiest son of a bitch on the planet.

First, let's be honest, he's fucking terrible. He gets whipped around like a rag doll on the field; he might as well not even be there. I've been more delayed by speed bumps in the street; even traffic cones. Because at least you have to walk around them.

So first he's blessed by his family name. Clay Matthews is a beast, so people expected his brother to be at least 50% beast, maybe even 30% beast. Unfortunately Casey is 100% female. But because of his name he's drafted way higher than he deserves. Not only that the genius Andy Reid makes him the play-caller for the defense.

This preseason Casey gets obliterated up and down the field as usual. He looks bad against 2nd stringers, 3rd stringers, 4th stringers, practice squad players, the kids from the punt, pass, and kick program... So it comes time for cuts and better players get released while he remains. Why you ask? Because our new coach is his former college coach.

Casey you lucky son of a bitch!
nephillymike
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 2 2013, 12:22 PM) *
All I know is Casey Matthews is the luckiest son of a bitch on the planet.

First, let's be honest, he's fucking terrible. He gets whipped around like a rag doll on the field; he might as well not even be there. I've been more delayed by speed bumps in the street; even traffic cones. Because at least you have to walk around them.

So first he's blessed by his family name. Clay Matthews is a beast, so people expected his brother to be at least 50% beast, maybe even 30% beast. Unfortunately Casey is 100% female. But because of his name he's drafted way higher than he deserves. Not only that the genius Andy Reid makes him the play-caller for the defense.

This preseason Casey gets obliterated up and down the field as usual. He looks bad against 2nd stringers, 3rd stringers, 4th stringers, practice squad players, the kids from the punt, pass, and kick program... So it comes time for cuts and better players get released while he remains. Why you ask? Because our new coach is his former college coach.

Casey you lucky son of a bitch!

He must have pictures of Chip from his Oregon days.
You'll be comforted by the fact that the reason we only have 3OLB's is because of Casey's versatility as he can also "play" outside in the 3-4!! So not only do you have to fear him as getting in the game on the inside, he could also see time on the outside. This doubles our odds of seeing him on the field!!

Feel better?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Gee E @ Sep 1 2013, 06:28 PM) *
Because posters here seem to live in their own world of self-delusion.

They disregard the fact that 99% of the other waived players were simply cut instead of being traded.


I got too much time on a rainy Labor Day.

Based on what teams did in waiver/practice squad activities, was it likely there to be any interest?? Remembering that players who are cut and get thru waivers and are then signed to the PS are thought in less regard in league circles than players who are claimed on waivers (ie nobody wanted the PS guys), then we can get a feel for who may have had interest. I also list the number of TE's on the 53 man roster for each club. From bottom of the waiver wire up:

#32 BAL Have 2 TE's on roster (Pitta our for yr. on IR). Didn't sign one off waivers, but did add TM. Furstenburg to PS. They s/h/b a good trading candidate.

#31 SF. Have 3 TE's on roster and had no waiver or PS activity re TE's. No interest likely.

#30 ATL. Have three TE's on roster, however signed TE M. Schuler to PS. May have had interest

#29 NE. Have 3 TE's on roster and had no waiver or PS activity for TE's. Not likely, although not impressed with their backup TE's. They prolly should have had interest, but assume they don't.

#28 DEN. Have 4 TE's on roster. No interest.

#27 HOU. Have 3 TE's on roster with no waiver or PS activity for TE's. No interest likely.

#26 GB Had 4 TE's on roster but also signed on J. Stoneburner to the PS. Maybe

#25 SEA Had only 2 TE's on roster and signed TE C. Helfert to PS. Had a lot of DB depth. Good match for trade.

#24 iND Had three TE's on roster, but added one off waiver from Ten Jack Doyle and added TE D. Jones to PS. Good match for trade.

#23 MIN Had three TE's on roster. Signed TE C. Ford to PS. Maybe.

So from the bottom of the wire, it looks like BAL, SEA and IND match and maybe's on ATL, GB, MIN. And that is stopping it at #23. There could have been others in the middle of the wire that would have been interested.

I know, too much time on a rainy day.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 2 2013, 01:21 PM) *
Hence his moniker, Fantasy Fan.


Uh...he was referring to you but it is no great shock you did not get that....priceless
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 2 2013, 02:03 PM) *
I got too much time on a rainy Labor Day.

Based on what teams did in waiver/practice squad activities, was it likely there to be any interest?? Remembering that players who are cut and get thru waivers and are then signed to the PS are thought in less regard in league circles than players who are claimed on waivers (ie nobody wanted the PS guys), then we can get a feel for who may have had interest. I also list the number of TE's on the 53 man roster for each club. From bottom of the waiver wire up:

#32 BAL Have 2 TE's on roster (Pitta our for yr. on IR). Didn't sign one off waivers, but did add TM. Furstenburg to PS. They s/h/b a good trading candidate.

#31 SF. Have 3 TE's on roster and had no waiver or PS activity re TE's. No interest likely.

#30 ATL. Have three TE's on roster, however signed TE M. Schuler to PS. May have had interest

#29 NE. Have 3 TE's on roster and had no waiver or PS activity for TE's. Not likely, although not impressed with their backup TE's. They prolly should have had interest, but assume they don't.

#28 DEN. Have 4 TE's on roster. No interest.

#27 HOU. Have 3 TE's on roster with no waiver or PS activity for TE's. No interest likely.

#26 GB Had 4 TE's on roster but also signed on J. Stoneburner to the PS. Maybe

#25 SEA Had only 2 TE's on roster and signed TE C. Helfert to PS. Had a lot of DB depth. Good match for trade.

#24 iND Had three TE's on roster, but added one off waiver from Ten Jack Doyle and added TE D. Jones to PS. Good match for trade.

#23 MIN Had three TE's on roster. Signed TE C. Ford to PS. Maybe.

So from the bottom of the wire, it looks like BAL, SEA and IND match and maybe's on ATL, GB, MIN. And that is stopping it at #23. There could have been others in the middle of the wire that would have been interested.

I know, too much time on a rainy day.


No...not too much time, merely looking for something that just isn't there.....you have to remember that teams look at TEs depending on scheme. You need to find a team that is looking for a TE who can't block but is a mediocre receiving threat which is what Harbor was and is. It is not shocking that no one felt enough about him to trade for him. If it was so easy to do don't you think NE would have called the Eagles? They need someone like him immediately and they have a relationship with the Eagles.

You have to think this stuff through before you start going down the conspiracy of ineptitude path. Do you also doubt we landed on the moon?....lol
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 2 2013, 02:16 PM) *
No...not too much time, merely looking for something that just isn't there.....you have to remember that teams look at TEs depending on scheme. You need to find a team that is looking for a TE who can't block but is a mediocre receiving threat which is what Harbor was and is. It is not shocking that no one felt enough about him to trade for him. If it was so easy to do don't you think NE would have called the Eagles? They need someone like him immediately and they have a relationship with the Eagles.

You have to think this stuff through before you start going down the conspiracy of ineptitude path. Do you also doubt we landed on the moon?....lol


No, of course none of these teams wanted him because of "style" differences. The Jags got him at #2 spot on the waiver wire. My guess is that ten other teams would have grabbed him also. I don't think that all of the teams I mentioned above had style differences.

Not a real big deal. But I just think it was overlooked in a busy time.

What do you make of the open spots on our practice squad? What gives?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 2 2013, 04:42 PM) *
No, of course none of these teams wanted him because of "style" differences. The Jags got him at #2 spot on the waiver wire. My guess is that ten other teams would have grabbed him also. I don't think that all of the teams I mentioned above had style differences.

Not a real big deal. But I just think it was overlooked in a busy time.
http://www.wingheads.com/index.php?showforum=3
What do you make of the open spots on our practice squad? What gives?


Let me guess.......they are too cheap?....lololol


No idea....much like the rest of folks here I don't have a bug in Howie's office so I don't know who they talk to or about what. My guess is that many of those eligible for the PS entertain offers and will make a decision this week. Not all of those cut have no options.

Again, answer the simple question...New England who has a good relationship with both Kelly and Howie and have a definitive need for a pass catching TE passed on trading with the Eagles. Now are you saying the Eagles were too inept to call around for trades for Harbor AND New England was too dumb to reach out to the Eagles? Surely they would have given up a 7th?

I just want to make sure I understand what makes you arrive at a conclusion that what you see as such a valuable chip would be missed by an entire office of professionals tasked to do nothing but identify such opportunities.
D Rock
Harbor would have been picked up by up to a third of the league. His combo of size/speed/experience make him a legit backup. With the shit situation in n.e. at TE, I think it a safe bet that they wold have taken him (just 1 example).

Conversely, Iggy would have gone unclaimed. He's just a guy.

D Rock
Now acho is gone too, while Matthews remains.

I'm gittin pissed.

I fucking hate Casey Matthews. He sucks out loud and makes ole Matt McCant look like a true starter.
JaxEagle
no argument there D
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 2 2013, 08:09 PM) *
Harbor would have been picked up by up to a third of the league. His combo of size/speed/experience make him a legit backup. With the shit situation in n.e. at TE, I think it a safe bet that they wold have taken him (just 1 example).

Conversely, Iggy would have gone unclaimed. He's just a guy.


and that is my point....NE needs a pass catching TE so it stands to reason if Harbor had the value so many here seem to think he had they would have reached out to make a trade and Howie and Kelly both have strong relationships with NE, especially Kelly and yet nothing happened. What is shocking to me is that after watching Harbor's preseason how anyone thinks he has so much value. The implications here, whether realized or not, is that Howie chose to ignore trading him. That is ridiculous. He had a terrible 4th game after a mediocre camp. he did nothing to standout.


But I agree on Matthews....what does this guy have that keeps him around?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 2 2013, 10:29 PM) *
and that is my point....NE needs a pass catching TE so it stands to reason if Harbor had the value so many here seem to think he had they would have reached out to make a trade and Howie and Kelly both have strong relationships with NE, especially Kelly and yet nothing happened. What is shocking to me is that after watching Harbor's preseason how anyone thinks he has so much value. The implications here, whether realized or not, is that Howie chose to ignore trading him. That is ridiculous. He had a terrible 4th game after a mediocre camp. he did nothing to standout.


But I agree on Matthews....what does this guy have that keeps him around?



I don't think NE would have been their best suitor. I think they should have been but by their actions, I question it. This is a team that let two veteran TE's go a week before. In doing that, they let the world know they were happy with their TE situation. I think they are weak at TE, but the fact that they did what they did, says they believe their OK there. The other teams I mentioned all should have had interest and we could have gotten a bottom of the roster guy this year for Harbor. Somebody at a position of need, that was on their bubble. I wasn't even looking for a future 7th, just a bubble boy from them in a P.O.N.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 2 2013, 11:35 PM) *
I don't think NE would have been their best suitor. I think they should have been but by their actions, I question it. This is a team that let two veteran TE's go a week before. In doing that, they let the world know they were happy with their TE situation. I think they are weak at TE, but the fact that they did what they did, says they believe their OK there. The other teams I mentioned all should have had interest and we could have gotten a bottom of the roster guy this year for Harbor. Somebody at a position of need, that was on their bubble. I wasn't even looking for a future 7th, just a bubble boy from them in a P.O.N.


Again....think about what you are saying.....you are saying that not only did the eagles drop the ball but any team who did not approach them about Harbor is equally guilty....it was no secret that harbor was on shaky ground or do you also think that all those teams are also a bunch of screwballs and did not know Harbor was on the block AND the Eagleschose to ignore his trade value?

You know what? Fuck it....the Eagles FO is a bunch of schmucks AND so is 3/4 of the rest of the league apparently.....you win....your theory makes far more sense....ugh....I surrender.....harbor will make the Pro Bowl this year........pick up the torches at 6 tomorrow....
nephillymike
I think the Eagles knew Harbor was on shaky ground where most of the other teams did not. That being the case, in this instance, most falls on them. I suspect most thought Iggy was the odd guy out and the other teams had no interest in him.

D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 3 2013, 11:06 AM) *
I think the Eagles knew Harbor was on shaky ground where most of the other teams did not. That being the case, in this instance, most falls on them. I suspect most thought Iggy was the odd guy out and the other teams had no interest in him.

this
SAM I Am
Harbor was toast the minute they drafted Ertz and signed Casey.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 3 2013, 07:06 AM) *
I think the Eagles knew Harbor was on shaky ground where most of the other teams did not. That being the case, in this instance, most falls on them. I suspect most thought Iggy was the odd guy out and the other teams had no interest in him.



Mikey...really?....Harbor was the focus of several articles speaking directly to the fact that he was on the bubble......it was no secret and you can't really think that FO's across the league don't read beat writers from other cities as part of their research. It is free intelligence. I am sure most thought both would be cut.
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