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Zero
No question in my mind.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2013, 07:09 AM) *
No question in my mind.


I was pondering whether it should be 'yes' or 'large breasts,' but in the end I chose 'yes.'

Only 7 Eagles' players have had their numbers retired, and I admit I don't even know who a couple of them are from way back. Dawkins will most definitely have his number retired, and McNabb should too. What will most likely happen is he'll retire as an Eagle, and they won't give #5 to anyone for a long time, I don't think it'll be retired anytime soon.
Matty™
Whilst McNabb will and quite rightly SHOULD hold his head up as he retires I don't think he's done enough to warrant a retired number in all honesty.

Still an Eagles legend though.
samaroo
QUOTE (Matty™ @ May 18 2013, 05:11 PM) *
Whilst McNabb will and quite rightly SHOULD hold his head up as he retires I don't think he's done enough to warrant a retired number in all honesty.

Still an Eagles legend though.


Because he didn't win a Super Bowl? I'm not being an ass, I'm just curious what you think it takes to earn a retired jersey.
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 18 2013, 07:12 PM) *
Because he didn't win a Super Bowl? I'm not being an ass, I'm just curious what you think it takes to earn a retired jersey.



HOF to get considered IMO.
Eyrie
The bar is even higher than the Hall of Fame - we have eight retired numbers (#15 van Buren, #20 Dawkins, #40 Brookshier, #44 Retzlaff, #60 Bednarik, #70 Wistert, #92 White and #99 Brown). That said the criteria are different because Brookshier, Retzlaff, Wistert and Brown aren't in the HoF (just a matter of the five year rule before Dawkins gets in) and none of Jurgenson, McDonald or Pihos have had their number retired despite making the HoF for their time as Eagles.

Much as I rated McNabb, he didn't do enough to make the HoF, let alone have his number retired. Twenty years from now people will remember him as an excellent QB but not an all-time great. I'll defer to older fans as to whether he was as good as van Brocklin, Jurgenson or Jaworski.
TGryn
Based on what they did on the field, Jerome probably shouldn't be in that group and Pihos and McDonald should (Jerome's number was retired less than 3 months after his death, so at the time it was more an emotional reaction than based on his football accomplishments). Jurgy was a HoF QB, but most of his best years were with Washington.

IMHO the sad truth of it is that if McNabb had suffered a career-ending injury during the Super Bowl in '04, he probably would be considered among this group. That he was the QB as the team had their slow decline off of the 2004 run weighs against him, as that's the thing that's freshest in everyone's mind.
nephillymike
IMO, Mcnabb is the best Eagles QB of all time.

He needs time. If I were advising him, I would not tell himto come back to Philly yet for any ceremonies. Just because a 1-1/2 yr fullback retires as an Eagle, doesn't mean he has to.

Time heals many wounds.

People love Jaws today, despite an absolutely putrid SB performance that makes Mcnabb's look like a HOF SB performance. Jaws had one excellent year, a few soid and many below average years. He did not have any touch for most of his career here, but got better at it. People forget the flaws over time.

Randall was a space cadet. I said "Let me be me" not "Let me be me". All the talent in the world, the study habits of an 8th grade dropout. Coaches would put markers in game tape to see if they were moved as proof he watched the film like he was supposed to, and Randall woul dnever pass the test as the markers were in place as proof he never watched the film. His lack of prep time was a major stumbling block for our team as coaches would play zone and drop an extra guy back and Randall was clueless. His final nail was in the infamous Dallas playoff game in Dallas after the big 30 inch snow storm here in Philly (1996?) where he went home to LV during the playoff week to be with his pregnant wife and once again, took his playbook with him to supposedly study and be ready in his backup role in case starter Rodney Peete went down. As always, he didn't study a lick, Peete went out in the first quarter with an injury and the rest of the game was the running of vanilla offensive plays for a clueless Cunningham and we lost big in a playoff game at Dallas. Insult to injury, he goes to Minny the next year to redeem himself and has one of the best years a QB has ever had up to that point and was one missed G. Anderson FG from going to the SB for a 15-1 Minny team. He put the study and effort in for that team. We weren't worthy for such an effort.

Jurgeson can't hold McNabb's jock, especially his time as an Eagle. Van brocklin was here only for what, three years? An excellent QB, but here too short to be in this conversation IMO.

If time can heal Jaws and Randall, it can heal McNabb's legacy also. He just needs to shut up!! Every time he opens his mouth, that healing process gets a little longer!!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 19 2013, 09:48 AM) *
IMO, Mcnabb is the best Eagles QB of all time.


Is there really any doubt? As Eagles fans (those of us who aren't 60-70 years old), we've never had any sort of prolonged expectations for a Super Bowl than we did in the 00-10 era. I never miss a chance to bash Andy, but if I find myself at the KC game, I will give him a standing ovation as I hope the crowd will. Same with Donovan. He should have his number retired. It's a blue collar city and we love our defense, and recently only defensive players have had their number retired, to be followed by Dawkins. In a couple years I think he will be remembered more positively than negatively, and then it might happen.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 19 2013, 09:48 AM) *
IMO, Mcnabb is the best Eagles QB of all time.

Jurgeson can't hold McNabb's jock, especially his time as an Eagle. Van brocklin was here only for what, three years? An excellent QB, but here too short to be in this conversation IMO.

If time can heal Jaws and Randall, it can heal McNabb's legacy also. He just needs to shut up!! Every time he opens his mouth, that healing process gets a little longer!!


Prepare to be shocked......

I disagree about Van Brocklin......those 3 years were huge years for Eagles football and it was because of him.....he was the best we have had......I trust Ray Diddy and everything else that I have read on it and he has an MVP trophy for a season and the big game MVP as well to prove it.

Now on to McNabb....I have always defended or supported him and he should retire as an eagle and be in their HOF but that is where I stop. Do not retire his number and he is not going to the NFL HOF. More importantly he needs to shut up....the more he talks the more I am starting to dislike him. He is his biggest fan and that is beyond annoying. He was a very good QB here, that should be appreciated and not diminished but he should also not be overvalued.

The reason for Sept. 19th is obvious with Reid being in town......what worries me is that he is going to say something stupid that week.....


Phits
If Brian Dawkins' number is retired, McNabb's will be too. They won and lost together as leaders of the defense and offense, respectively. Their leadership (along with Andy's coaching) engineered the most successful decade of Eagles football (in the SB era).
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ May 19 2013, 06:00 PM) *
If Brian Dawkins' number is retired, McNabb's will be too. They won and lost together as leaders of the defense and offense, respectively. Their leadership (along with Andy's coaching) engineered the most successful decade of Eagles football (in the SB era).


Wrong. Dawkins was an all-time great at his position. McNabb can't say the same. McNabb is an Eagles HOF'er but I don't think the jersey warrants being retired. Not completely opposed to it, but the second half of his career simply didn't warrant it.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 19 2013, 03:25 PM) *
Prepare to be shocked......

I disagree about Van Brocklin......those 3 years were huge years for Eagles football and it was because of him.....he was the best we have had......I trust Ray Diddy and everything else that I have read on it and he has an MVP trophy for a season and the big game MVP as well to prove it.



Here's Van Brocklin's stats

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VanBNo00.htm

1960 was a well deserved awesome MVP year.

He was with us for 1958-1960, three years.

While here he had 55 TD's and 51 INT's

He finished 8th of 12, 4th of 10 and 2nd of 12 in passer rating during those years. Combine the three years and compare the total for those three years with his peers, and it's above average to good. Not at all great.

I said time heals all wounds? I think time and that '60 championship MVP season healed a lot of what was a very disappointing first two years for him. My man Ray Didinger was a lot forgiving to one of his young life heroes.

By comparison, McNabb's 2002-2004 seasons, he was 16th of 32, 8th of 32 and 4th of 32, and McNabb's mobility added an element that made his play better than the passer rating would indicate.

McNabb is the best Eagles QB of all time.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 19 2013, 08:20 PM) *
McNabb is the best Eagles QB of all time.

And he's trying desperately to prove that he's the biggest head case.
mcnabbulous
I'm still not sure "best ____ in Eagles history" justifies having the number retired.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 19 2013, 07:51 PM) *
And he's trying desperately to prove that he's the biggest head case.


Sadly he's been on that trajectory for quite some time. The decline in his play directly coincided with his verbal overcompensation.

I've said this before, but early in his career, Donovan used to point to his win/loss record when his passing numbers were questioned. Beginning in 2006, he would point to his stats when people questioned the win/loss record. That's when he began to lose me.
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