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Zero
It may be that Vick starts the season as #1. He was #1 before being injured, he possesses unique talents, he seems to be truly liked by his teammates and he won't have the real pressure or likely any injury in TC. Once the season starts all bets are off though. Foles did an admirable job filling in last year as a rookie and now has experience with the NFL speed and talent. He's smart, accurate and apparently a good on field leader. Barkley sounds extremely confident and continues getting a lot of attention from the media. We're hearing all the good, and besides his supposedly limited movement skills we're not hearing much bad. He's coming off of a shoulder injury but he insists that's all healed (a pro athlete telling us he's healed ohmy.gif ).

I think we can all agree that Vick is NOT the QB of the future, so it's really about watching how the other two guys fight it out for that honor. Will it be one of them or someone who's not on the team yet? Barkley seems to be getting the attention:
QUOTE
In the 2011 college football season Luck was the most accurate passer in the conference, completing 71.3 percent of his passes while tossing 37 touchdowns and just 10 interceptions. Barkley was nearly as good as or better than Luck after completing 69.1 percent of his passes for 39 touchdowns and just seven interceptions. Barkley also had more passing yards than Luck and put together those numbers in one fewer game as a result of a postseason ban served by USC. Foles had numbers comparable to Luck and Barkley as well but he also was intercepted 14 times (with over 120 more passes than each).
Here ...
Eyrie
It's a pity for Vick that his talents are so different to those of Foles and Barkley, or we would have a wide open competition. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly resolves that problem.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 12 2013, 05:15 AM) *
It's a pity for Vick that his talents are so different to those of Foles and Barkley, or we would have a wide open competition. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly resolves that problem.

What makes you think it's not wide open? If Vick wins it, you think that spells anything about Barkley or Foles' futures?
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 13 2013, 03:41 AM) *
What makes you think it's not wide open? If Vick wins it, you think that spells anything about Barkley or Foles' futures?

I expect Kelly's offense to be designed around the abilities of Foles and Barkley, which hurts Vick's chances of being the starter and is in that sense therefore not wide open. If Vick's skills mirrored those of his rivals for the starting job then it would be genuinely wide open.

To turn it round, if Kelly had already announced an offense that maximises Vick's talents, would you consider that Foles and Barkley are in a wide open competition with him or would you agree that they would be handicapped by their relative lack of mobility?
Phits
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 13 2013, 01:52 PM) *
I expect Kelly's offense to be designed around the abilities of Foles and Barkley, which hurts Vick's chances of being the starter and is in that sense therefore not wide open. If Vick's skills mirrored those of his rivals for the starting job then it would be genuinely wide open.

To turn it round, if Kelly had already announced an offense that maximises Vick's talents, would you consider that Foles and Barkley are in a wide open competition with him or would you agree that they would be handicapped by their relative lack of mobility?

I may be mistaken, but isn't part of Kelly's "genius" his ability to adapt his game plan to his players skill set? He prefers talented players who can be used in different situations with equal effectiveness.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (Phits @ May 13 2013, 03:48 PM) *
I may be mistaken, but isn't part of Kelly's "genius" his ability to adapt his game plan to his players skill set? He prefers talented players who can be used in different situations with equal effectiveness.

Agree
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Phits @ May 13 2013, 03:48 PM) *
I may be mistaken, but isn't part of Kelly's "genius" his ability to adapt his game plan to his players skill set? He prefers talented players who can be used in different situations with equal effectiveness.

Precisely...
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 13 2013, 01:52 PM) *
To turn it round, if Kelly had already announced an offense that maximises Vick's talents, would you consider that Foles and Barkley are in a wide open competition with him or would you agree that they would be handicapped by their relative lack of mobility?

No need to turn it around on me. Cause I'm not thinking the way you are. In IMHO there is a place for all the QB's on the roster, if the offense is going to be tailored around the running game.

I'm not understanding why people think because Barkley was drafted, that means Chip wants a pocket passer. And further more I don't understand why people think the mobile QBs on the roster are unable to operate out of the pocket.
Zero
I'm anxious to see if all the positive talk about Barkley is real or nothing more than hype. It's fun to read, one way or the other.
QUOTE
Barkley is a cerebral quarterback with an exceptionally high football IQ. He processes information quickly, makes sound decisions under duress and enters the league with a thorough understanding of pro offensive concepts after playing four years in a complex system at USC. Most importantly, Barkley has some experience directing a no-huddle offense during his junior and senior seasons and directing two-minute drills throughout his career. Now, those moments certainly pale in comparison to directing a frenetic-paced attack like the one Kelly orchestrated at Oregon, but it provided the Eagles' coach with a glimpse of how well Barkley could operate within a lightning-paced offense built on speed and tempo.

As I look how the no-huddle could work with Barkley, I can envision the Eagles utilizing an approach that is similar to the methods used in Denver and New England with Peyton Manning and Brady at the respective controls. Both veterans are masters at changing the pace of the game based on the reaction of the defense to create an advantage for the offense. Additionally, the rapid pace forces defensive coordinators to utilize simple schemes due to concerns about communication issues between the defenders. Without having to worry about deciphering complex pre-snap looks due to the no-huddle, a young quarterback like Barkley could thrive early in his career as a passer and playmaker.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Zero @ May 14 2013, 06:37 AM) *
I'm anxious to see if all the positive talk about Barkley is real or nothing more than hype. It's fun to read, one way or the other.
[indent][/indent]

This is why I give the nod to Barkley over Foles. He simply has proven he can win games. If Vick starts, Foles will probably be, number 3.(caught that rhyme?)

And as much as people hate it. I can see Vick, Barkley, or even Dixon beating out Foles, but he'll get a shot to compete though. And don't think I'm hating on Foles, cause I like Foles, but I like the other 3 guys and what they have to offer too.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ May 13 2013, 08:48 PM) *
I may be mistaken, but isn't part of Kelly's "genius" his ability to adapt his game plan to his players skill set? He prefers talented players who can be used in different situations with equal effectiveness.

I think that's something that we all agree on, and why I never bought into the initial thinking that Foles would be traded due his relative lack of mobility.

QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 14 2013, 04:59 AM) *
No need to turn it around on me. Cause I'm not thinking the way you are. In IMHO there is a place for all the QB's on the roster, if the offense is going to be tailored around the running game.

I'm not understanding why people think because Barkley was drafted, that means Chip wants a pocket passer. And further more I don't understand why people think the mobile QBs on the roster are unable to operate out of the pocket.

Barkley is far closer to Foles than to Vick in playing style, and that is a consideration in developing the playcalling. There's a fair difference between the plays that would suit the two kids compared to those that suit Vick, and the rest of the players on offense have enough to do learning the new system without having to learn two very different variations on it.

My concerns about Vick in the pocket are due to his historic troubles there. He's much more effective when allowed to roll out and threaten the defence with both his arm and legs. I have no objection to him being the #2 QB if Kelly wants to shake up a struggling offense but I don't think he gives us the best chance to win games as the starter.
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 14 2013, 10:51 AM) *
This is why I give the nod to Barkley over Foles. He simply has proven he can win games. If Vick starts, Foles will probably be, number 3.(caught that rhyme?)

Actually, this is exactly why I don't think Vick can run kelly's offense. It requires pretty much exactly all that Vick lacks. The ONLY thing he has over the other guys is foot speed.
nephillymike
Here's a few things I've heard from the reporters who were on Comcast and talk radio and watched the practice yesterday.

" Dixon looked the best" - Mike Miss

Barkley's arm is not good. In the NFL, you can't throw to a spot all the time - Hollis Thomas

They had Barkley and Foles running the read option - a waste of time b/c nobody will defend them as a runner - D. Gunn (I think it was him)

Foles generally has a good arm, but the ball comes out like he chokes it sometimes and flutters - Mike Miss

Mike Vick was the slowest on the reads and looked like he struggled at times - Mike Miss

Mike Vick had the best skill set. Threw darts and had a great run - H. Thomas.

All media said how entertained they all were with the pace and loud music with practice.

DE Hunt has no position on the team. He's not suited for the 3-4 at all. Also there are a "few" LB's that are not a fit. - H. Thomas

OT Johnson's athleticism is very noticeable. Watkins still stinks. - H. Thomas.

Don't shoot the messenger.

iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 14 2013, 05:14 PM) *
Actually, this is exactly why I don't think Vick can run kelly's offense. It requires pretty much exactly all that Vick lacks. The ONLY thing he has over the other guys is foot speed.

You and I are on the outside looking in. You nor I know what Vick's football IQ is. Only the coaching staff knows. If Vick was as dumb or slow as people are trying to make him out to be. I'm sure he'd be gone. We've seen good things AND bad things from Vick IN and out of the pocket those who are trying to put a label on him are simply off base.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 14 2013, 02:38 PM) *
My concerns about Vick in the pocket are due to his historic troubles there. He's much more effective when allowed to roll out and threaten the defence with both his arm and legs. I have no objection to him being the #2 QB if Kelly wants to shake up a struggling offense but I don't think he gives us the best chance to win games as the starter.

Just because he's more effective out of the pocket doesn't mean he can't be effective in it. If given the kind of time this OL is capable of giving him, maybe he can be effective in the pocket. Play calling will help Vick this year. Safeties coming up to stop the run will play to Vick's advantage, the deep ball. The read option will play to Vick's advantage, throwing on the run.(as you say)

Maybe the plays being called will be different. So what? That's what we want. A coach who can adjust to different players and different situations. Like I said before and I'll say it again and again and again. There is a place for EVERY QB on this roster if the offense is surrounded around the running game.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 14 2013, 05:34 PM) *
Here's a few things I've heard from the reporters who were on Comcast and talk radio and watched the practice yesterday.

" Dixon looked the best" - Mike Miss

Barkley's arm is not good. In the NFL, you can't throw to a spot all the time - Hollis Thomas

They had Barkley and Foles running the read option - a waste of time b/c nobody will defend them as a runner - D. Gunn (I think it was him)

Foles generally has a good arm, but the ball comes out like he chokes it sometimes and flutters - Mike Miss

Mike Vick was the slowest on the reads and looked like he struggled at times - Mike Miss

Mike Vick had the best skill set. Threw darts and had a great run - H. Thomas.

All media said how entertained they all were with the pace and loud music with practice.

DE Hunt has no position on the team. He's not suited for the 3-4 at all. Also there are a "few" LB's that are not a fit. - H. Thomas

OT Johnson's athleticism is very noticeable. Watkins still stinks. - H. Thomas.

Don't shoot the messenger.

I've been a fan of Dixon since we got him. He was a flat out STUD in Oregon.
samaroo
So was Vince Young at Texas.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 14 2013, 09:39 PM) *
So was Vince Young at Texas.

Good point
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