Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Training Camp Come Soon
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
nephillymike
Sad to say.

Split at home with the worst team in baseball with a payroll 140M less than ours. Get crushed 14-2 and one hit the night before.

Now Halliday admits to shoulder pain. At least it will provide a reason to get someone else in that spot.

It's going to be a loooong summer.

So depressing.

14-18. And a tough part of the scheduel coming up.

We'll need the Eagles sooner than other years.
Zero
Painful to watch, Harry. sad.gif
JaxEagle
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 5 2013, 06:39 PM) *
Sad to say.

Split at home with the worst team in baseball with a payroll 140M less than ours. Get crushed 14-2 and one hit the night before.

Now Halliday admits to shoulder pain. At least it will provide a reason to get someone else in that spot.

It's going to be a loooong summer.

So depressing.

14-18. And a tough part of the scheduel coming up.

We'll need the Eagles sooner than other years.

Yeah, Mikey, it sucks. It's pretty much what I meant a few weeks ago. It's ugly. BTW, ask RF if he still feels we can squeeze into the playoffs... LOL. Halladay is toast and we can't hit. Bad combo.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ May 5 2013, 08:09 PM) *
Yeah, Mikey, it sucks. It's pretty much what I meant a few weeks ago. It's ugly. BTW, ask RF if he still feels we can squeeze into the playoffs... LOL. Halladay is toast and we can't hit. Bad combo.


damn straight........with Roy out of the rotation it puts a little fire under Amaro to make some moves. This team was always a slow starter on offense and if they stay close to .500 through June they can make their run. Washington is exactly what I said they were....a flash in the pan. They are already worried about Strasburg and Atlanta is coming back to earth.

Patience lads...patience


JaxEagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 5 2013, 09:31 PM) *
damn straight........with Roy out of the rotation it puts a little fire under Amaro to make some moves. This team was always a slow starter on offense and if they stay close to .500 through June they can make their run. Washington is exactly what I said they were....a flash in the pan. They are already worried about Strasburg and Atlanta is coming back to earth.

Patience lads...patience


I respect your feelings but I wish I agreed. That said, I agree with you in that, if there is one hope it is that the rest of the division ain't all that either!
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 5 2013, 09:31 PM) *
damn straight........with Roy out of the rotation it puts a little fire under Amaro to make some moves.


But do you really want to sacrifice the already depleted farm for a slim shot at ... what? The playoffs or do you believe they can win it all?
HOUSEoPAIN
I don't think the season is lost yet, but I certainly think the next 2-3 years after this will be a nightmare, with all of our core gone. Amaro has destroyed this franchise's future.
TGryn
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 6 2013, 07:10 AM) *
I don't think the season is lost yet, but I certainly think the next 2-3 years after this will be a nightmare, with all of our core gone. Amaro has destroyed this franchise's future.

As Donnellon points out, though, most of the guys that were traded away haven't panned out in their new locales.

We're just paying the price for trying to extend the run a couple more years. It was not an unreasonable decision, just hasn't turned out well; age and injuries have caught up to the main pieces. The gamble was similar to the "all in" approach the Eagles took after Vick's terrific 2010 season, figuring if he repeated that they had a good shot at the Super Bowl, hence trying to win it all in '11 with the "Dream Team" FA signings: not unreasonable, but it didn't work out.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 6 2013, 11:40 AM) *
As Donnellon points out, though, most of the guys that were traded away haven't panned out in their new locales.

We're just paying the price for trying to extend the run a couple more years. It was not an unreasonable decision, just hasn't turned out well; age and injuries have caught up to the main pieces. The gamble was similar to the "all in" approach the Eagles took after Vick's terrific 2010 season, figuring if he repeated that they had a good shot at the Super Bowl, hence trying to win it all in '11 with the "Dream Team" FA signings: not unreasonable, but it didn't work out.


My problem isn't trading the prospects. It's the return. We traded 3 of our top prospects for a good corner outfielder. That's unacceptable. If you're making that trade, you better grab a star.

We traded May (and Vance) because our system is flush with arms. That's fine, if you can get something more than Ben Revere in return.

RAJ sucks.
nephillymike
We're only four games out of the last playoff spot!!!

Playball !!!

( I reserve the right to bitch and moan tomorrow if they lose again!!)
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 6 2013, 03:38 PM) *
We're only four games out of the last playoff spot!!!

Playball !!!

( I reserve the right to bitch and moan tomorrow if they lose again!!)



as dog shit as they have played they are only 5 games our of first....I am going to make a fortune this year....
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (TGryn @ May 6 2013, 12:40 PM) *
As Donnellon points out, though, most of the guys that were traded away haven't panned out in their new locales.

We're just paying the price for trying to extend the run a couple more years. It was not an unreasonable decision, just hasn't turned out well; age and injuries have caught up to the main pieces. The gamble was similar to the "all in" approach the Eagles took after Vick's terrific 2010 season, figuring if he repeated that they had a good shot at the Super Bowl, hence trying to win it all in '11 with the "Dream Team" FA signings: not unreasonable, but it didn't work out.


Everyone points out that we were all on board with the FA bonanza and trades, used to acquire Lee, Halladay, Pence, Papelbon, Oswalt, etc - and that's correct. The point is, this was done over the course of a few years, and our team had a shelf-life. Now we're here, in what is no doubt the last chance for us to make a run before blowing the whole thing up. We're looking at an empty farm system, and our ENTIRE INFIELD and 2 of our top 3 starters are in their mid-30s and there's no replacements lined up. Also, a couple of those guys are unmovable because the size of their contracts and their age. Our outfield consists of Mayberry (who should be a bench player), Revere (who's been a disaster), and Brown (he's been ok, but nothing special). Laynce Nix is serviceable but getting up there in age, and our backup catcher is Kratz. This franchise is doomed in the near future after this season.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 6 2013, 07:05 PM) *
Everyone points out that we were all on board with the FA bonanza and trades, used to acquire Lee, Halladay, Pence, Papelbon, Oswalt, etc - and that's correct. The point is, this was done over the course of a few years, and our team had a shelf-life. Now we're here, in what is no doubt the last chance for us to make a run before blowing the whole thing up. We're looking at an empty farm system, and our ENTIRE INFIELD and 2 of our top 3 starters are in their mid-30s and there's no replacements lined up. Also, a couple of those guys are unmovable because the size of their contracts and their age. Our outfield consists of Mayberry (who should be a bench player), Revere (who's been a disaster), and Brown (he's been ok, but nothing special). Laynce Nix is serviceable but getting up there in age, and our backup catcher is Kratz. This franchise is doomed in the near future after this season.


The ability to afford an 175M payroll rght now, with an upcoming multi billion dollar increase in TV revenues from the upcoming Comcast-Fox price war will go along way to replenishing our major club while allowing our farm system to replenish itself. We'll be fine. The thing is, the painful decision to blow it up and watching it happen, is not something anyone associated with the team wants to see.

The team had a good record last year, one that was playoff worthy once everyone came back. That was with Chase and Howard more hobbled than they are now, with a very weak 8th inning swivel. The Halliday issue is a big one, and may present a big hurdle. but we should be able to play much better even without him than we have. Enough that it is premature to blow it up. Give it a month and revisit it.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 6 2013, 05:42 PM) *
as dog shit as they have played they are only 5 games our of first....I am going to make a fortune this year....



How so??
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 6 2013, 12:21 PM) *
My problem isn't trading the prospects. It's the return. We traded 3 of our top prospects for a good corner outfielder. That's unacceptable. If you're making that trade, you better grab a star.

We traded May (and Vance) because our system is flush with arms. That's fine, if you can get something more than Ben Revere in return.

RAJ sucks.



I tell you, the NFL draft is exact science compared to the crapshoot MLB prospects are. There would seem to be an opening for a new set of criteria to be used to determine more accurately the future of MLB prospects. Maybe they need a combine and they all must attend college!!
JaxEagle
We are not good enough to make the playoffs even in a weak League.

I am not defending Amaro but I certainly can't second guess most of his decisions. Who here didn't want Cliff Lee or want Cliff Lee back again?
nephillymike
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ May 6 2013, 10:13 PM) *
We are not good enough to make the playoffs even in a weak League.

I am not defending Amaro but I certainly can't second guess most of his decisions. Who here didn't want Cliff Lee or want Cliff Lee back again?


I have np problem with the moves Amaro made thru last year.

Disappointed in the Revere pickup, even before his bad play this year.

Whoever is in charge with player development for the Phils has some explaining to do. Not putting out much at all.

As they say, we need our guys to play to the back of their baseball card and we should be in the running.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 6 2013, 09:41 PM) *
Enough that it is premature to blow it up. Give it a month and revisit it.


I said the season isn't over, and it's possible we could make one last run this year. I'm simply saying that next year and the year after that should be pretty tough as we transition to newer, younger players in many positions. Kendrick has been great, and Petibone has been more than fine. As long as Hamels and Lee pitch well we should be ok.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 6 2013, 08:56 PM) *
I tell you, the NFL draft is exact science compared to the crapshoot MLB prospects are. There would seem to be an opening for a new set of criteria to be used to determine more accurately the future of MLB prospects. Maybe they need a combine and they all must attend college!!

I don't question the inexact nature of baseball prospects. My point is that you have to maximize your return if you're going to trade them.

You really think that an above-average to good corner outfielder is sufficient return for 3 of your top prospects? If you're making that trade, you damn well better get a superstar. Not Hunter Pence.

Not to mention that his presence on our team only moderately improved our odds of winning. Even if we had won the WS that year, it still would have been a shitty trade.

And we did the same thing in acquiring Revere. I'm not completely sold on May as a prospect, but his value (along with Vance) warranted better return than Revere.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 7 2013, 12:41 PM) *
I don't question the inexact nature of baseball prospects. My point is that you have to maximize your return if you're going to trade them.

You really think that an above-average to good corner outfielder is sufficient return for 3 of your top prospects? If you're making that trade, you damn well better get a superstar. Not Hunter Pence.

Not to mention that his presence on our team only moderately improved our odds of winning. Even if we had won the WS that year, it still would have been a shitty trade.

And we did the same thing in acquiring Revere. I'm not completely sold on May as a prospect, but his value (along with Vance) warranted better return than Revere.



I think the high failure rate of "high prospects" make them more expendable for known MLB talent than you would like. If you read the article of all the trades we made with getting prospects or giving prospects, there really wasn't much on either side. To use NFL draft lingo, how many All-Stars did we give up? How many solid starters? Solid bench players?? I wonder if there is a site that gets into the details of MLB prospects and their success/failure rate like some site do for the NFL draft.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 7 2013, 12:41 PM) *
I don't question the inexact nature of baseball prospects. My point is that you have to maximize your return if you're going to trade them.

You really think that an above-average to good corner outfielder is sufficient return for 3 of your top prospects? If you're making that trade, you damn well better get a superstar. Not Hunter Pence.

Not to mention that his presence on our team only moderately improved our odds of winning. Even if we had won the WS that year, it still would have been a shitty trade.

And we did the same thing in acquiring Revere. I'm not completely sold on May as a prospect, but his value (along with Vance) warranted better return than Revere.


The value of Vance?...really?....Dubee hid Worley's flaws but before you mention him you might want to look at his numbers....I am not a Revere fan in the least but his start here is not indicative of his past performance...he hit .294 last year in over 500 ABs.....that was not a bad deal in any way shape or form.....that he has had a tough time adjusting is not a predictable outcome..

What I find crazy though is your statement that even if they won the WS the Pence trade would have been shitty....that is ridiculous...if they had won the WS no one would have said a word other than to laud Amaro's sharp move and Pence would still be here.....

Now you can argue Cosart or Reid are good pitching prospects but they are still career minor leaguers at this point and Singleton is suspended 50 games for his 2nd failed drug test....maybe they know a little more about him than you do.....


D Rock
I'm a total DKD when it comes to baseball, but I remember EVERYONE saying getting Pence was a "perfect" move at the time. They had a dream rotation that was living up to its end of the bargain, but needed some help offensively. It was reportedly exactly what hunter would bring.
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 7 2013, 10:05 PM) *
I'm a total DKD when it comes to baseball, but I remember EVERYONE saying getting Pence was a "perfect" move at the time. They had a dream rotation that was living up to its end of the bargain, but needed some help offensively. It was reportedly exactly what hunter would bring.



Yep
Zero
Isn't Charlie supposed to be some kind of hitting guru? For me, that seems to be the Phils biggest frustration: inconsistent offense. sad.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 7 2013, 08:09 PM) *
The value of Vance?...really?....Dubee hid Worley's flaws but before you mention him you might want to look at his numbers....I am not a Revere fan in the least but his start here is not indicative of his past performance...he hit .294 last year in over 500 ABs.....that was not a bad deal in any way shape or form.....that he has had a tough time adjusting is not a predictable outcome..

I'm not suggesting Worley is anything more than a back of the end starter, but there is some value in that. He hit .294, which is pretty damn mediocre for a slap hitter. You're also excluding May from the equation, who was fairly highly thought of. At one point, he was our #1 prospect.

QUOTE
What I find crazy though is your statement that even if they won the WS the Pence trade would have been shitty....that is ridiculous...if they had won the WS no one would have said a word other than to laud Amaro's sharp move and Pence would still be here.....

Well here's the beauty of it. We didn't win the WS, because bringing in decent corner outfielder offers only marginal value to an already good (great) baseball team. And just because everyone would have thought it was a great move doesn't make it true.

If it would have resulted in Pence still being here, it would have been an even shittier move.

QUOTE
Now you can argue Cosart or Reid are good pitching prospects but they are still career minor leaguers at this point and Singleton is suspended 50 games for his 2nd failed drug test....maybe they know a little more about him than you do.....

Career minor leaguers? Those guys are 21/22/23 years old. Most 21-23 year olds are career minor leaguers. Chase Utley didn't become a regular until his age 25 season.

Singleton got suspended for smoking weed. When was the last time you heard about a major leaguer getting in trouble for the same? I'm pretty sure a couple of guys in the league probably dabble. He's also considered a top-50 prospect in all of baseball. If that is the reason RAJ shipped him out of town, he's a bigger dumbass than I thought.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 7 2013, 10:05 PM) *
They had a dream rotation that was living up to its end of the bargain, but needed some help offensively.

Right...and this is the point. They needed some help. They didn't need to cripple the franchise to marginally improve the team. Turns out his .211 batting average wasn't all that valuable come playoff time.

Don't let RF fool you. He conveniently leaves Domingo Santana out of the equation when evaluating the trade, too.

We traded 3 guys that would be 3 of the top prospects in our system for extremely marginal improvment to an already very good club. It was a terrible, terrible trade with absolutely no foresight.

Ultimately, it will go down as one of the worst trades in Phillies history.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ May 8 2013, 04:58 AM) *
Isn't Charlie supposed to be some kind of hitting guru? For me, that seems to be the Phils biggest frustration: inconsistent offense. sad.gif

Our offense is inconsistent because we have an offense built on guys that can't draw walks or extend the count. That's on Ruben.

At this stage, hitting gurus can only do so much. They can't teach a guy vision or patience. Maybe if our GM had any respect for advanced statistics, things would be a bit different.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.